Discussion School Shootings in America

[CrossroadsCurious]

The argument holds plenty of weight, you just refuse to accept it. There's a difference.

 

[ablmnop]

The argument holds plenty of weight, you just refuse to accept it. There's a difference.

Tell me how the citizens of the US are protecting any of their rights with their guns. What rights are you protecting? Your nation is crumbling in front of everyone's eyes. Your last president openly committed treason and he hasn't even been arrested. How are your guns protecting you?

 

[Heavenly Pup]

"We need guns to defend ourselves from the government" isn't the only defense of guns, and it's probably the weakest. There are other much better arguments for guns.

 

[ablmnop]

"We need guns to defend ourselves from the government" isn't the only defense of guns, and it's probably the weakest. There are other much better arguments for guns.

1 - I'd be very curious to hear those.
2 - That was exactly the argument made by the poster I replied to.

 

[Heavenly Pup]

1 - I'd be very curious to hear those.
2 - That was exactly the argument made by the poster I replied to.

"After every tragedy, the people call on the government to make some emotion-driven sweeping legislation or act somehow. Legislating with emotion doesn't end well. I'm against all gun control out of principle: There's no victim involved in purchasing, possessing, or manufacturing a firearm that probably won't be used for murder anyway. If guns were used by Americans for murder most of the time, there would be very few gun owners because most would be in prison with murder charges. You'll find many gun owners in small-town America, but often very low crime rates in those towns. Most people aren't hellbent on murder just for the fuck of it.

The gun's potential use is irrelevant anyway; there's no reason the law should punish me for purchasing anything through a voluntary transaction (no violence or theft involved). Although guns are designed to kill, whether in murder, hunting, or self-defense, they can be used a million other ways (maybe I just want to look at it in a glass case), again, not that it's relevant. I find every other defense of guns than the one I put forth superfluous, except maybe for a debate's or rebuttal's sake."

Also, I know that was the argument made by who you were replying to but I just wanted to make it clear that that is the weakest argument for guns.

 

[Foresight]

You can't stop violence, it's human nature. There will always be random acts of violence just because of the human mind.

You can reduce violence with better living standards and community support. I don't think America has a mental illness problem. I think we have a problem with education, cost of living, cost of education, housing problems, work/life balance, wages, issues in medical treatment and evaluation, issues with the inhumane cost of medical treatment, food quality and diet issues, lack of proper funding for social programs, lack of family and community support, zero inner or "spiritual" awareness and connection to nature, tainted water supplies, on and on and on. It's going to get worse, we've fallen way behind in a lot of ways and with climate problems, food shortages, a water crisis in the west, exploding housing issues, yikes. There will be more violence to come. The kids know there's no hope for the future and they act accordingly.

My family is getting more guns and gun training for the group. This will not be fixed by gun control, no way. We're past the boiling point imo.

 

[Seeking_Peace]

I've been robbed before and not having a gun to defend myself was a horrible situation. We deserve to have protection in our home and/or on our persons. Criminals will get guns off the black market or streets. Nothing will stop that.

 

[newave3]

You can't stop violence, it's human nature. There will always be random acts of violence just because of the human mind.

You can reduce violence with better living standards and community support. I don't think America has a mental illness problem. I think we have a problem with education, cost of living, cost of education, housing problems, work/life balance, wages, issues in medical treatment and evaluation, issues with the inhumane cost of medical treatment, food quality and diet issues, lack of proper funding for social programs, lack of family and community support, zero inner or "spiritual" awareness and connection to nature, tainted water supplies, on and on and on. It's going to get worse, we've fallen way behind in a lot of ways and with climate problems, food shortages, a water crisis in the west, exploding housing issues, yikes. There will be more violence to come. The kids know there's no hope for the future and they act accordingly.

My family is getting more guns and gun training for the group. This will not be fixed by gun control, no way. We're past the boiling point imo.

Yes, this country that I was born and raised in and love so much is a damn mess.

I've been robbed before and not having a gun to defend myself was a horrible situation. We deserve to have protection in our home and/or on our persons. Criminals will get guns off the black market or streets. Nothing will stop that.

I've been robbed and assaulted numerous times,but try to get a concealed carry permit here in NYC:



I used James Gandolfini (RIP) even though he is from Jersey.

 

[deleted]

I've been robbed before and not having a gun to defend myself was a horrible situation. We deserve to have protection in our home and/or on our persons. Criminals will get guns off the black market or streets. Nothing will stop that.

I agree, it has never been so easy to manufacture a gun with a 3D printer apart from illegal weapons, the real problem is the lack of security in schools and the incompetence of the police for not acting quickly

 

[GentleJerk]

I actually fucking cried when I saw this on the news the other day. I almost never cry.

Some of those kids were the same age as my daughter.

 

[ablmnop]

"After every tragedy, the people call on the government to make some emotion-driven sweeping legislation or act somehow. Legislating with emotion doesn't end well. I'm against all gun control out of principle: There's no victim involved in purchasing, possessing, or manufacturing a firearm that probably won't be used for murder anyway. If guns were used by Americans for murder most of the time, there would be very few gun owners because most would be in prison with murder charges. You'll find many gun owners in small-town America, but often very low crime rates in those towns. Most people aren't hellbent on murder just for the fuck of it.

The gun's potential use is irrelevant anyway; there's no reason the law should punish me for purchasing anything through a voluntary transaction (no violence or theft involved). Although guns are designed to kill, whether in murder, hunting, or self-defense, they can be used a million other ways (maybe I just want to look at it in a glass case), again, not that it's relevant. I find every other defense of guns than the one I put forth superfluous, except maybe for a debate's or rebuttal's sake."

Also, I know that was the argument made by who you were replying to but I just wanted to make it clear that that is the weakest argument for guns.

I very much disagree, which is surely unsurprising to you by now. The gun's potential is absolutely not irrelevant. We, as a society, regulate harmful (and potentially harmful) substances all of the time in the name of public safety. We regulate toxins, poisons, explosives. We have strict rules for biohazards. If there is potential for harm, and harm en masse, we regulate it, often very strictly (and with very good reason).

And there is incredibly strong evidence that regulating harmful substances does in fact reduce harm (which is why we do it). And this is true the world over with guns specifically. In Australia, it took ONE mass shooting to enact extremely strict gun control laws. What happened? Gun-related homicide declined. Canada has much tighter gun control than America. These mass shootings do not happen here. If guns are harder to get, then less people have guns, and less people commit mass murder, because it isn't all that easy to commit murder - especially mass murder - without a gun.

In fact, earlier in this thread, a person describes his own experience with intrusive thoughts and desires of committing mass murder with a gun. But, guns are illegal and hard to obtain, and so he has not 1) obtained the gun and 2) shot up his school. Could he find a way to get a gun illegally? Maybe. But then there are hurdles to jump through, and at the very least, each hurdle presents another decision point, another opportunity to talk yourself out of it. If he could just walk to a store whenever he wanted and legally obtain a weapon that allows you to mass murder people, well then, the chances of harming people are a lot higher.

It's not unlike suicide, and I'm surprised people here especially don't see the parallel. People on this sub - many of them - actually do not end up jumping through the hoops to acquire the illegal substance that would end their lives with less pain, even when otherwise really pulled by the desire to end their lives. Do they look for alternatives? Sure. Do some find alternatives and succeed? Yes. But each barrier is another step that makes it harder to carry out the final act, and I see many here who have been around for years precisely BECAUSE society makes it difficult to acquire tools to kill yourself.

People argue that people kill people. Yes, of course. Does regulating the dangerous tool/substance reduce violence and devastation and harm from that tool? It's also clear that very much yes.

With semi-automatic and automatic weapons, you can kill a TON of people AT A DISTANCE. You cannot do that with a knife, with a club, etc. The weapon the Uvalde shooter used was a weapon of war. Why the fuck can he buy a weapon of WAR? There is no reason for it. You can argue all you want that people will find ways to murder people with a knife but the statistics do not show that to be the case.

I agree with everyone here that there are issues that the US needs to contend with that are larger than just guns. But 1) it does not appear that your country is addressing any of that anyway, and 2) it doesn't change the fact that removing the guns would remove a lot of the devastation, and is arguably the far easier and far more practical and immediate solution.

 

[hungry_ghost]

I'm just thinking to myself, what's the likelihood of these mass shootings happening so close together?

And what's the likelihood of people choosing to go apeshit and kill a bunch of kids, or shoot up a hospital versus say, a conference hall filled with politicians, or a meeting room filled with rich CEOS who utilize slave labor and destroy the environment?

They smell sus.

 

[Seeking_Peace]

I'm just thinking to myself, what's the likelihood of these mass shootings happening so close together?

And what's the likelihood of people choosing to go apeshit and kill a bunch of kids, or shoot up a hospital versus say, a conference hall filled with politicians, or a meeting room filled with rich CEOS who utilize slave labor and destroy the environment?

They smell sus.

That Texas gunman would be shot on site before he even got to the steps of the white house. The dirtiest people get the best protection.

I'm curious where the school cop was? They usually patrol the school.

 

[whatevs]

"We need guns to defend ourselves from the government" isn't the only defense of guns, and it's probably the weakest. There are other much better arguments for guns.

We'll see about that soon enough ;)

 

[CoalmineCanary]

"Good guys with guns" sure took their sweet time confronting the shooter, while DENYING the parents THEIR 2nd amendment rights to protect their own children.

The parents weren't even ALLOWED to practice their 2nd amendment rights. Some were detained for trying to do so.

Do "pro-assult gun" people not realize the constutional crisis here or the cognitive dissonance involved?

Rules for thee but not for me...Thoughts and prayers...etc..etc..Rinse, repeat...

(edit: spelling and last sentence)

 

[CoalmineCanary]

Over 12 hours later those so passionate about the 2nd amendment can't comment because of their "alternative facts".

Crickets from the cowards with guns.
Second amendment for me but not for thee.
Not surprised by the hypocrisy of the craven.



F you for sacrificing kids for your gun fetish.

 

[Not_A_Seagull]

making new gun laws wont do shit anyway, lets be real the USA would have fucked up the gun laws in some shape or form which would have resulted in more crime

 

[WhenTheyCry]

I believe the FBI grooms mass shooters so they can create public fear to increase fundings for themselves. "If you don't give us more money, these shootings will continue". School shootings have been happening for a long while, and they have only continued to increase. The FBI is possibly corrupt.

 

[Maudlin]

I believe the FBI grooms mass shooters so they can create public fear to increase fundings for themselves. "If you don't give us more money, these shootings will continue". School shootings have been happening for a long while, and they have only continued to increase. The FBI is possibly corrupt.

Absolutely.

As in... you should change "possibly" to "absolutely" in that last sentence.
I doubt it's only the FBI, though. I think other agencies and NGOs are involved, as well. I remember a time when such things happened much less frequently.

 

[makethepainstop]

This whole trend/issue is disgusting and wrong and evil and needs to be stopped!

Another shooting here this week in Texas. Not in the high school older kids, but the younger elementary school kids (neither ok but still, the younger kids, wtf)! :(

The L only wants more background check laws and the R refuses to even talk about doing anything.

Yet the entire problem is not the weapons used... ie guns. Will grant that guns are quicker and can get more possible victims. But take away the guns and we'll be talking about blades or knifes. Take those away and the topic will be blunt objects. Take those away and we'll be down to sticks and rocks. Take those away and we're back to killing with our bare hands. The weapons are not the issue!

This latest shooter had 2 guns and got 1 if them at a legit store doing a background check. Let that sink in...
HE PASSED A BACKGROUND CHECK!

Most of these shooters do because they are also kids and have no criminal records! We need to get into their life and head and figure out why they snapped. AND THEN FIX THESE ISSUES & PROBLEMS!!!

This isn't rocket science. I don't know why this is so hard to understand! This shouldn't be happening! JFC are we as a species this sick and dumb?!?

Seems like it...

It's like this you pick on a kid, long enough and one day he is gonna get even. Problem is they don't always kill the kids that made their school time so painful. But for those rare few who take out the kids that caused them so much pain......