Discussion Religion carries a message?

[ish]

Hello. I would like to present a certain view -
Religions allow us to perceive the world in a specific way most often pro-life, it is impossible to hide that it is easier for those who adhere to the truth to be "revealed" to live. When life circumstances force us
for independent thinking and searching for answers, most often we come to sad conclusions that as an individual we do not really mean anything, that the soul is nothing but personality (psyche +
memory), which disappears with the death of the brain. The only thing that remains after us is the trace in the genes we pass or not, and the trace in
memory of descendants, which decreases with each subsequent generation.
Referring to what Jesus had to say: "Heaven will turn over and earth in your presence. And the living (coming) from the Living will not see death. Is not it like Jesus said: "Who found himself, this world is not worthy?"
You can understand this: The system will recover
the values you know, the Living God will not die, you will understand that you are part of it (to live) and by this understanding you have died for the world, though you live. It is a state that precedes madness or suicide, you can then give meaning to your death, find a goal, create an idea for which you die, or you can arrange it in such a way that seeking suicide will be killed by others, commit a suicidal terrorist attack (on praise God), kill a few people and get killed by the police, etc. or simply do not physically hurt anyone to overcome your survival instinct by writing a farewell letter or not. The phenomenon of Jesus is based on making himself a sacrifice for God - he "lives" in the minds of living people for over 2,000 years, he did not leave any manuscript, everything we know about him is oral tradition and later evangelists and commentators.
Another statement from Jesus: "Anyone who drinks from my mouth will become like me. I myself will become him and what is hidden will be revealed to him. "
- I leave without comment, both passages from the Gospel
Thomas.
And the Old Testament - And Moses said, Let me see Your glory. The Lord answered: I am
I will show you my majesty and proclaim the name of the Lord before you, for I do grace,
whom I want, and mercy, to whom I like. And he said again, You will not be able
to watch my face, because no man can see my face and stay alive. And the Lord said, "Here is a place next to me, stand by the rock. When my glory passes, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and put my hand on you until I pass. And when I withdraw my hand, you will see me in the back, but I am facing you
I will not show. (Ex 33: 18-23)
We consider the last fragment of the text from the Book of Exodus, which contains one more, very important and important teaching about prayer. Let us pay attention to what Moses is asking in his prayer: Let me see Your glory. From the context it follows that to see glory, it means just what to see it was in the creation of the whole past and what will be. What is now Mojrzeszow he saw in a timely manner. God, Yahweh responds to the request of Moses in this way:
"You will not be able to see my face, because no man can see my face and stay alive."
It means that I can not leave you alive and show you what it will be. Mortalist.
And the Lord said, "Here is the place beside me, stand by the rock.
When my glory passes, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and put my hand on you until I pass. And when I withdraw my hand, you will see me in the back, but I will not show you my face. "
It means only that I will show you the whole past from creation, you will not see the future.
These words apply not only to Moses, but to every human being.
And again, the logion from the Gospel of Tomasz:
The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, what will be our end?"
Jesus replied: "Have you already discovered the beginning to seek the end? Because where there is a beginning will also be the end. Blessed is he who will be at the beginning, because he will know the end and will not taste death. "
A response worthy of a Gaon rabbi - half-truth and change of subject,
it can be understood - blessed one who will be born again will live and his past will die. So leave your past
life, habits, sins, errors, failures, etc. live a different life.
In a broader context - you did not exist before birth so
after death you will also not exist, you will live in the Consciousness
God as those who passed.At the end, such a thought from the Internet: "Shaking the whisper of inspiring superstitions, common sense tells us that life (human) is only weak weak light between two perfectly black eternities. There is no difference in their blackness, but we have a tendency to look at the forehead
homies with less embarrassment than the one we fly to at four thousand five hundred heart beats per hour. "
With this post I do not want to offend anyone or offend, I think that
everyone has the right to their own views and independent thinking (this is also the gift of God).
For everyone on the forum a lot of empathy, understanding and fulfillment of dreams.

 

[Rukia]

Gospel of Thomas is not canonical :)

Are you a Christian?

 

[ish]

Hello, monotheist.

 

[Pupuce]

Imo, does religion carry a message? Yes. Is it any good? It isn't even coherent to begin with. God is supposedly all-powerful and benevolent but doesn't prevent pain, which is contradictory.

 

[Soul]

Imo, does religion carry a message? Yes. Is it any good? It isn't even coherent to begin with. God is supposedly all-powerful and benevolent but doesn't prevent pain, which is contradictory.

I believe the response to that is that pain is good for us. (Not for me it isn't.)

 

[Pupuce]

I believe the response to that is that pain is good for us. (Not for me it isn't.)

Wanting pain to be good for someone is at best sadistic, and far from anything remotely benevolent when you are omnipotent.

 

[Soul]

Wanting pain to be good for someone is at best sadistic, and far from anything remotely benevolent when you are omnipotent.

No no, it's good for the spirit! a learning experience? No pain no gain? Ahhh crap - it's all BS propaganda. All of it.

 

[alizee]

I would bet God (if one actually existed) that if I could relive my life without religion in it at all.. I would have had a better life than this one. I mean there would be rules such as no interfering because who knows if God would play fair. Since I think God is evil if one exists. I'm agnostic but I lean heavily that way from observing my life & others and knowing free will is an illusion. In any case not even God could have free will and so you can't really blame a God for the outcome of evil.
In all honesty I think that bet would be won but I doubt I would make that bet if there were other options like a life that you can plan out from start to finish and then live.

 

[TimeToDie]

It isn't even coherent to begin with. God is supposedly all-powerful and benevolent but doesn't prevent pain, which is contradictory.

Well, you see, if you never got kicked in the balls then you'd never be able to truly appreciate how wonderful it feels to not be kicked in the balls. It doesn't make any sense to me either, but if any bible-thumper wants me to kick them in the balls I'd be happy to do so.

 

[Vegrau]

A living god do not need a mouth piece. A living god do not need agents. A living god do not need followers. People need that not god. Whatever beautiful words one can make and twist to support their views. Its not convincing. It only make your god sounds mortal and limited. There's no salvation. Your sins will never be forgiven. Its better to carry that weight and try to better human to each other. But all the religion does is judge. Pitiful.

 

[Pupuce]

Well, you see, if you never got kicked in the balls then you'd never be able to truly appreciate how wonderful it feels to not be kicked in the balls.

Not being kicked in the balls is the basic state of the situation. Being kicked is the unusual thing. So it's not that not being kicked is wonderful, it's that being kicked is excruciating. That basically is what is wrong with most argument about nearly everything. You don't have that problem so it's great, right? Not if I am not supposed to have that problem, in that case it's just normal. Besides I'm sure a bunch of guys would like being kicked in the balls.

 

[Painted Bird]

Yes, and the message is: don't think for yourself, kneel down and obey your masters.

 

[Vegetto]

I think the Catholics got one thing right - life is suffering. Ever read any near-death experiences from people who've been clinically dead? They always describe it (if they can remember anything at all) as the most peaceful, calm feeling they've ever experienced, and that they're so angry and sad that they have to come back. One of them even attacked the person that brought them back to life.

I still fear the process of dying (especially losing physical sensation), but death itself no longer frightens me.

 

[ish]

Terminology

"GOD" - (I will use logic concepts here to facilitate understanding) is a basic collection covering literally everything,
matter, the laws that govern it, but also immaterial things - thought, ideas, etc. Literally everything that we know as
humanity and what we do not know. Few people take into account that as people we are limited by our senses
and the brain. Measuring instruments for examining ourselves and what surrounds us are adapted to our cognitive abilities,
which in a way is in itself an insurmountable barrier, and can even lead us to wrong conclusions.
Unfortunately, but even probably our imagination is limited (example - a journey in time - how was it?
- it's impossible, sooner neurosurgeons will be able to transplant the brain - condition if they do it in 1 minute).
Such a god is the supreme god, and regardless of beliefs, he exists even in unconscious atheists. A multitude of subsets
of various religions and religions (including atheism) in the collection of Religions God does not bother, it may even be
a desirable state. God is like UNIVERSE.

"Religion" - practically all aims at guiding the group, community, society, nation to ensure durability
humanity as a species, from religious practices derive origin social engineering, media influence, cybernetics,
manipulation etc.

"Man" - man as a unit is only a substitutable element, for GOD more important is humanity (a subset of the set of life).

"Human Soul" - what it really is - It's nothing but a psyche shaped from the day of birth and memory (inseparably connected
with time). The memory and personality of the individual disappears after the function of the brain has ceased.

"Good and Evil" - these concepts can not exist alone, that is, one without the other, and both have a relative value in relation to
a subject without which they practically do not exist. An example of a farmer wants to rain and a tourist to sunny weather.

"Suicide" - this is probably the only act of free will available to man, the loss of one element has no major impact on all humanity.
Every life ends in death anyway, regardless of the desire to survive.

"Life after death" - in fact after death you can only exist in the consciousness of living people, so "live" for example: Jesus, Lenin, Einstein, etc.
for his contribution to the intellectual achievements of humanity. The average person exists after his death in the closest consciousness
families and friends, in subsequent generations, knowledge gradually marginalizes.

 

[JoeFailure]

I think the Catholics got one thing right - life is suffering. Ever read any near-death experiences from people who've been clinically dead? They always describe it (if they can remember anything at all) as the most peaceful, calm feeling they've ever experienced, and that they're so angry and sad that they have to come back. One of them even attacked the person that brought them back to life.

I still fear the process of dying (especially losing physical sensation), but death itself no longer frightens me.

But it's not suffering for everyone. Yeah everyone's life will have some moments of suffering, but for some it's WAY more and way more intense and profound when it happens, sometimes with no real way out.

While others seem to live a great life with mostly great health, wealth, relationships, healthy kids, etc.
I think for me, religion can carry a good message, but not all of them are.

Even if what people say is true and life has no meaning in the end and that this was all random, so good/evil are manmade concepts and all that...I still believe in the good. I still believe in being kind and helping other people. I would never be able to see life like "Game of Thrones", even if that's what it is. And maybe that's one of the reasons I wasn't fit for this world and will likely have to CTB.

But even if religion gets people to act that way in a non-altruistic way...it's still ultimately a good thing. The problem is the flip side where it's caused wars and all kinds of divisiveness amongst people. Although I guess with the way people are, there was always going to be divisiveness.

I don't know, it's just like anything else in life. I ultimately have no answers, just more questions.

 

[ish]

Everyone, without exception, as an individual is selfish.
Egoism this is synonymous with survival instinct.

 

[calendulo]

I think the Catholics got one thing right - life is suffering.

This asserstion is wrong. A catholic person born forgiven. It is not necessary any kind of suffering. From hundred years ago.
You are confused about that question, could be the orthodoxy church.

 

[Pupuce]

"GOD" - (I will use logic concepts here to facilitate understanding) is a basic collection covering literally everything,
matter, the laws that govern it, but also immaterial things - thought, ideas, etc. Literally everything that we know as
humanity and what we do not know. Few people take into account that as people we are limited by our senses
and the brain. Measuring instruments for examining ourselves and what surrounds us are adapted to our cognitive abilities,
which in a way is in itself an insurmountable barrier, and can even lead us to wrong conclusions.
Unfortunately, but even probably our imagination is limited (example - a journey in time - how was it?
- it's impossible, sooner neurosurgeons will be able to transplant the brain - condition if they do it in 1 minute).
Such a god is the supreme god, and regardless of beliefs, he exists even in unconscious atheists. A multitude of subsets
of various religions and religions (including atheism) in the collection of Religions God does not bother, it may even be
a desirable state. God is like UNIVERSE.

Your definitions of god hurts my eyes so much. You're just finding a convenient definition that you can't prove. And who do you take yourself for by stating that you know our unconsciousness so well that you can say we all "believe" in god. How did you come to the conclusion that god exist with your limited senses and tools that could lead you to wrong conclusions? Unless you have a foolproof method you can share, your definition as no value.
And for the last time, atheism is NOT a religion, nor it is comparable to. It's just a lack of belief in a god/gods.
God is illogic.

"Religion" - practically all aims at guiding the group, community, society, nation to ensure durability
humanity as a species, from religious practices derive origin social engineering, media influence, cybernetics,
manipulation etc.

First part could also be leadership or survival instinct kicking in, you know stronger together. Second part is straight up BS, heliocentrism, medecine are 2 of a lot of example where religion as made efforts to suppress any sort of progress.
Religion is a way of thinking

"Man" - man as a unit is only a substitutable element, for GOD more important is humanity (a subset of the set of life).

What about man as something else than a unit? And a substitutable element for what? And why did try to define man, to say humanity is more important, to not define humanity.
Man is a central unit protected by a bone armor in a meat doll, and is thanks to evolution.

"Human Soul" - what it really is - It's nothing but a psyche shaped from the day of birth and memory (inseparably connected
with time). The memory and personality of the individual disappears after the function of the brain has ceased.

Human soul is a psyche. What is a psyche, a soul. Thank for not adding anything of interest. And why inseparably connected with time? How do you get to that conclusion?
I do agree on the personnality and memory disappearring after death though.

"Good and Evil" - these concepts can not exist alone, that is, one without the other, and both have a relative value in relation to
a subject without which they practically do not exist. An example of a farmer wants to rain and a tourist to sunny weather.

Indeed these can't exist alone as they are the opposite of one another, and are subjective. But your example is so bad, i mean which one of them is supposed to bad good or evil....How about you go with killing the first-born of every family of an opposing community in Egypt or marrying a girl at 6 and consumming the marriage at 9? Those are way better examples to discern good and evil.

"Suicide" - this is probably the only act of free will available to man, the loss of one element has no major impact on all humanity.
Every life ends in death anyway, regardless of the desire to survive.

Free will is a joke, your brain decide before you make a conscious choice. Tested and peer-reviewed in lab. Besides if God is everything how come you have free will?

"Life after death" - in fact after death you can only exist in the consciousness of living people, so "live" for example: Jesus, Lenin, Einstein, etc.
for his contribution to the intellectual achievements of humanity. The average person exists after his death in the closest consciousness
families and friends, in subsequent generations, knowledge gradually marginalizes.

You don't exist per se, but hey it's the least bad definition you have.

My whole point is, if you want just to define something, you have failed as your definitions are based on nothing for the most part and are praising religion which is really bad to get any sort of proper debate.

And i'm not going to copy-paste my answer like you did your message in another thread. It's just idea enforcing.

 

[Roger]

This asserstion is wrong. A catholic person born forgiven. It is not necessary any kind of suffering. From hundred years ago.
You are confused about that question, could be the orthodoxy church.

On the contrary: Catholic dogma embraces the concept of original sin. Everybody must seek redemption.

 

[DoneWithThis]

Imo, does religion carry a message? Yes. Is it any good? It isn't even coherent to begin with. God is supposedly all-powerful and benevolent but doesn't prevent pain, which is contradictory.

Like George Carlin said.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money

 

[calendulo]

On the contrary: Catholic dogma embraces the concept of original sin. Everybody must seek redemption.

What is the original sin?.

Edit: Well I wonder it, but if you can explain me.

 

[ish]

I based my conclusions on rational perceptions, I do not praise anything, I present only the actual state of public knowledge. I'm not a believer in religion, but I'm aware
that thanks to her a civilization was born and developed, from it
science was created, eg cybernetics. Thinking horizons matter
the wider the better, in other words, the more aspects and arguments
we take into consideration the better we judge.

 

[Pupuce]

The definition of god, human soul, religion differs greatly depending on your background, some people claims that there is an objective good and evil. You can't have a set definition that everyone will agree with, and public knowledge isn't intrinsically valid. If humanity could agree like that we wouldn't have had and still have so much wars. The best thing you can have, while redundant, is to ask the person you're talking to for their definition of what you are talking about.

 

[calendulo]

The definition of God, it is easy.
According new testament. God is one and trinity. Father's name Son's name and the holy ghost.
This phrase does not make sense in english when you do translation from latin.
But, it is the official definition.

 

[ish]

[QUOTE = "calendulo, post: 380419, członek: 8589"]
Jaki jest grzech pierworodny ?.

Edycja: Zastanawiam się, ale czy możesz mi wyjaśnić.
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]
[QUOTE = "ish, post: 380446, member: 9407"]
[QUOTE = "calendulo, post: 380419, członek: 8589"]
Jaki jest grzech pierworodny ?.

Edycja: Zastanawiam się, ale czy możesz mi wyjaśnić.
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]



Adam i Ewa zjedli zakazany owoc w Edenie, co spowodowało, że stali się (dowiadywali się)
śmrtelni.Z z przesłania Tory był to owoc Drzewa Życia (czyli człowieka)
Po jedzeniu zdali sobie sprawę, że są śmiertelni. Historia naturalna zna wiele przypadków udokumentowanych aktów kanibalizmu wśród prymitywnych ludów, gdy ludzka świadomość
właśnie się kształtowało i nie można było mówić o cywilizacji.
Przesłanie Tory można również rozumieć następująco: Ewa przekonana
Adam do prokreacji (konsumpcji związku), doprowadził do uwolnienia się od władzy rodzicielskiej (Boga). Adam i Ewa
zostali wygnani z Edenu (dzieciństwo) i sami zostali rodzicami
(trudności w wychowaniu dzieci). Przyjemności się zmieniły
obowiązki.

What is the original sin?.

Edit: Well I wonder it, but if you can explain me.

Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit in Eden, which resulted in them becoming (they were finding out)
śmrtelni.Z from the Torah's message it was the fruit of the Tree of Life (means man)
After eating, they realized that they are mortal. Natural history knows many cases of documented acts of cannibalism among primitive peoples when human consciousness
it was just being shaped and it was impossible to talk about civilization.
The message of Torah can also be understood as follows: Ewa persuaded
Adam to procreation (consumption of the relationship), it resulted in the release from the parental authority (God). Adam and Ewa
they were banished from Eden (childhood) and became parents themselves
(difficulties in raising children). Pleasures have turned into
responsibilities.

The definition of god, human soul, religion differs greatly depending on your background, some people claims that there is an objective good and evil. You can't have a set definition that everyone will agree with, and public knowledge isn't intrinsically valid. If humanity could agree like that we wouldn't have had and still have so much wars. The best thing you can have, while redundant, is to ask the person you're talking to for their definition of what you are talking about.

The state in which humanity is located depends on the "will of God", in my thinking I have also considered that the diversity of views of people and
their exchange affects development. That's how it developed and continues to grow
civilization.

 

[Pupuce]

You forgot one major thing in your definition of god, it's that it just may not exist. And i'd like to see where you get the fact that religion created civilization from. I'm pretty certain that we lived in group before we could have a clear enough collective mind to create any sort of religion. All your conclusion comes from the fact that god exist which is still highly debated and far from proven.

 

[calendulo]

Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit in Eden, which resulted in them becoming (they were finding out)
śmrtelni.Z from the Torah's message it was the fruit of the Tree of Life (means man)
After eating, they realized that they are mortal. Natural history knows many cases of documented acts of cannibalism among primitive peoples when human consciousness
it was just being shaped and it was impossible to talk about civilization.
The message of Torah can also be understood as follows: Ewa persuaded
Adam to procreation (consumption of the relationship), it resulted in the release from the parental authority (God). Adam and Ewa
they were banished from Eden (childhood) and became parents themselves
(difficulties in raising children). Pleasures have turned into
responsibilities.

Well, all that is Pre-Christian. Nowadays Old Testament barely is used; Modern Christianity base in New Testament.The Modern Cathecism is Christ's Life and The apostle's facts.
I guess that kind of theories works so much where had revivalism churches; Baptistes and something like this, but i do not know about that churches.
Sound categorical, but original sin, eden, tree of life already not exists barely into Modern Catholicism. Christ was born and after died crucify, start and end, althought there are doctrines differents inside Cath, as all religions monotheistics.

 

[ish]

You forgot one major thing in your definition of god, it's that it just may not exist. And i'd like to see where you get the fact that religion created civilization from. I'm pretty certain that we lived in group before we could have a clear enough collective mind to create any sort of religion. All your conclusion comes from the fact that god exist which is still highly debated and far from proven.

My conclusions are that everything exists as it is
what we humanity have knowledge, including ourselves
This is a god, and additionally there is a god as well
we do not know humanity and what we do not know. Everything what
we have known until now, we will be humanity
get to know, and what we will never know about
attention to the senses and the brain that limit us.

Well, all that is Pre-Christian. Nowadays Old Testament barely is used; Modern Christianity base in New Testament.The Modern Cathecism is Christ's Life and The apostle's facts.
I guess that kind of theories works so much where had revivalism churches; Baptistes and something like this, but i do not know about that churches.
Sound categorical, but original sin, eden, tree of life already not exists barely into Modern Catholicism. Christ was born and after died crucify, start and end, althought there are doctrines differents inside Cath, as all religions monotheistics.

That is why I accepted as the source of the Torah for interpretation,
because it was created before the New Testament.
Christianity raises the rank of man in a way
and he does it in the following way: God Jesus was born
in a human body, he died as a human being. thinking
more broadly every person is God's Child -
Son or daughter. (108 Loggia of the Gospel of Tomasz
Jesus said: he who has drunk of my mouth will become like me. I
I will become him myself and the secrets will be revealed to him.)
During the life of Jesus, no gospels existed, they were written only
after his death.

 

[calendulo]

That is why I accepted as the source of the Torah for interpretation,
because it was created before the New Testament.
Christianity raises the rank of man in a way
and he does it in the following way: God Jesus was born
in a human body, he died as a human being. thinking
more broadly every person is God's Child -
Son or daughter. (108 Loggia of the Gospel of Tomasz
Jesus said: he who has drunk of my mouth will become like me. I
I will become him myself and the secrets will be revealed to him.)
During the life of Jesus, no gospels existed, they were written only
after his death.

Everyone believes what it wants. Is free.
Do not understand "Christianity raises the rank of man in a way", sounds to me as a weird sermon...do not get it.
Tomas is not an evangelist recognised by the catholic church. It is just a data.
Never I did read bible,either the new testament. Means nothing to me.

 

[Pupuce]

Everyone believes what it wants. Is free.
Do not understand "Christianity raises the rank of man in a way", sounds to me as a weird sermon...do not get it.
Tomas is not an evangelist recognised by the catholic church. It is just a data.
Never I did read bible,either the new testament. Means nothing to me.

You could read it just for the sake of seeing what's in it for yourself. But aside from that it has nothing really interesting that you can't find in GoT.