aminend

aminend

Warlock
May 24, 2020
747

SAN ANTONIO


"Mikael was a gentle soul," grieving mother Ruth Scott says.


In his last photo ever taken, Mikael Scott is looking ahead pensively. He battled depression for years. Around Christmas, his mother says his mood took a turn.


"He stopped talking as much," Ruth remembers. "He would cry a little bit more. I noticed he was always on his phone - and he did not have social media - so it was like he was always checking in or something."


She's a nurse from Schertz. She had just worked a long overnight shift when she got home, checked on Mikael and made the worst discovery a mother could ever make. Mikael, just 27, had taken his own life.


"My only son just died," Ruth says while sobbing. "He was my life. I lived and died by that child."


The next few hours were a blur: paramedics, police and a pursuit for answers.


"I see that bottle right there," Ruth says while pointing to a large white bottle.


The mysterious bottle by the bed took Ruth on a dark journey to a dark corner of the web.


"I did not know that websites existed out there that promote - desperate people, even children - they promote it and they glorify killing yourself," Ruth says through tears.


Her son was a member of Sanctioned Suicide. We're naming it so parents know what to look for on their children's devices.


The website describes itself as a "pro-choice" forum to talk about mental illness and suicide where you can "ask questions you can't ask anywhere else."


Since the Trouble Shooters started looking into the site, it's hopscotched around the web - but still available, if you know where to look. A welcome note says: "Pro-choice means that we do not encourage you to do anything.


The site's administrators did not return our request for an interview or statement.


While there are recovery threads like one saying the site saved someone's life, the post from people contemplating suicide are chilling.


We found one called, "Best way to hang yourself?" A commenter gave advice, then wrote: "That is how you succeed."


A popular topic is SN, or sodium nitrite. It's a preservative for deli meat, turned suicide cocktail.


And it's what was inside the bottle Ruth found by Mikael's bed.


"Minute by minute, his symptoms as he was dying," Ruth reads from a sodium nitrite thread.


She holds the website directly responsible for Mikael's death.


"That was the gun and sodium nitrite was the bullets," Ruth says.


Kelli Wilson from Houston found the website open on her 18-year-old son's phone.


"After he had taken his own life," Wilson remembers. "People are dying on this every single day. The question that I have is, why aren't they removing it?"


She now leads a coalition of families across the world impacted by the website who all want it shut down.


That's easier said than done, because of a law called Section 230.


"I think Section 230 is, in some ways, more powerful than the First Amendment," Wilson says.


It was written in 1996 when the internet was in its infancy. It means websites don't have to meet the same standards as traditional publishers like newspaper or television.


"The theory was, the internet was going to serve as like a bulletin board where people could post things. You don't have the right to sue somebody who creates the bulletin board for the things that other people post that are offensive," explains Professor Bill Piatt from St. Mary's University School of Law.


The once-obscure law is now a political flashpoint. Former President Donald Trump wanted Section 230 repealed when websites like Twitter posted editorial warnings about, or removed, his content instead of leaving the messages unfiltered.


"So there is concern that if, well look if they are exercising some editorial control taking things down, why can't they be held liable as if they were an editor?" Prof. Piatt says.


The 26 words of Section 230 are considered the 26 words that created the internet. That's why Wilson is calling her movement Fix The 26, to hold websites like Sanctioned Suicide accountable in court.


"Because it's virtual, I feel like somehow crime has become legal," Wilson says.


While both sides of the aisle find the law problematic, there's not much appetite in Congress to rewrite it.


"I can tell you that I've spoken with many Senators about this and I get a lot of interest at first. I've had very long and lengthy conversations with them. And really nothing happens," Wilson says.


Back in Schertz, Ruth is still raw with grief. She sees names on the website crossed out: a signal sent out in cyberspace the deed was done. Someone else is now dead.


"Unless the laws are changed, this is going to keep going," Ruth says. "There has to be a line, okay? There has to be a line that you don't cross. I do not want anybody else to lose their child to this nonsense."
 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic loser
Jan 26, 2021
5,739
A popular topic is SN, or sodium nitrite. It's a preservative for deli meat, turned suicide cocktail.


And it's what was inside the bottle Ruth found by Mikael's bed.





She holds the website directly responsible for Mikael's death.


"That was the gun and sodium nitrite was the bullets," Ruth says.
He could've just hanged himself if he didn't have SN. (Almost) literally everyone can kill themselves if they are determined enough, getting the info to do it in a more or less humane way is super kick-ass and awesome. Best way to prevent your child from killing themselves is to not have them.
 
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aminend

aminend

Warlock
May 24, 2020
747
They really cant understand that the reason of suicide is matter, and not SN or a website.
 
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L

Lostandlooking

In limbo
Jul 23, 2020
446
I'm so sad to hear of the grieving family of members who committed suicide. I can definitely understand their anger. But it's also disconcerting to read how badly people seem to misinterpret this site, again and again.

Mikael was showing signs that his depression was worsening. But what was done about that? Who was listening to him? What did his environment do for him? Did he get access to help? This is left out of the article.

I honestly haven't seen any glorifying or promoting of suicide on the forum. Just brutally honest posts where people speak directly about everything involved in taking your own life. If anything, this makes people confront the reality of this enormous decision, it doesn't make it easier to kill yourself.
 
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ithappens

ithappens

Live free or die
Aug 9, 2018
159
Idk about anyone else but I'm getting pretty ticked off by the repeated claims that our website is out there teaching children how to commit suicide. Our forums are not available to non-members and the mods ban anyone found to be under 18. We take more precautions than your average porn site when it comes to being of age. For all of the parents I have seen claiming this their own child was 18 or older, in this case he was well into adulthood and past the point of the brain being done developing. I understand that to these parents they are always going to see their children as babies, but they were fully grown, autonomous adults with free will of their own. Nobody here pushed them to do it, they were looking for the info to kill themselves anyway, and they were not too young to understand what would happen. It's frustrating that they keep spreading this lie in an attempt to get more followers when its not even true. And it makes me wonder if they'd have even half as many supporters if they didn't lie and instead said "the website is leading adults to kill themselves ".
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
2,478
It says there that the 26 words the fixthe26 want to repeal are what created the internet. So not only do these morons want to shut this website down but the whole internet itself. and it's true repealing those 26 words will shut down the internet as nobody will create any website for fear of getting sued or held responsible for someone else harming themselves imo. Banning this website will not stop suicide. Suicide happens because life can become hell because a human is just a fragile needy small animal that will age,become diseased, and die anyway. suicide doesn't happen because of a website or SN. Also they want to make it seem like suicide and by extension this website are the only things that kill people. Maybe they should realize the most absolute truth of all that every human will die anyway no matter what and would've died anyway no matter what.
 
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Nolen

Nolen

You see it too? For me, it's always like this.
Feb 21, 2021
75
People will kill themselves regardless Karen, this site is not the cause but the symptom. If you really want to make difference ask yourself why he left and start by making this world a better place doing so you will save many more lives rather than investing your energy in shutting down this place and cause people to feel even more isolated.
 
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torimandy

torimandy

Fear is the mind killer
Aug 3, 2020
146
It makes me throw up in my mouth when people direct ire toward the site instead of looking at the whole thing as their own failure. I am pretty sure I know exactly who this was, and the mother doing the bitching about the site actually, by not being supportive of the person was the mother who did the pushing through her hate and inability to accept, support or even try to understand. Then it happens and they blame a website instead of themselves.
 
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AnnonyBox

AnnonyBox

Specialist
Apr 11, 2018
334
>SS: Literally more strict on underage users than porn sites
>Morons: "Would shambodah thing about da childrun?!?!?!?!?!1111"
 
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Good4Nothing

Good4Nothing

Unlovable
May 8, 2020
1,865
A website made me do it.

What a crock of shit.
 
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B

Bigpink

Warlock
Oct 12, 2020
705
So how about the countless people who were ending their lives before the internet? It's something thats in our fabric, the final response of those who cannot/do not want to continue.
It is of course utterly desperate for a family to lose someone like this but for myself SS is somewhere I can be completely open about how I feel, no one is making me do anything, when the time comes I will have better knowledge of the what and how, my choice in the end.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,682
Why aren't they calling to ban LostAllHope too? That site listed methods in detail and the survival/fatality rates of each. They did have a pro-life message at the end, but the owner felt that people deserved access to information.

It was on the first page of Google results for a long time if you searched many suicide related keywords. Almost as if a person makes their own decision to seek out these things. You won't stumble across this site randomly.

People come here because they want to discuss things with like minded people, and many who have impulsive urges DO recover after getting support on this site. Which they most likely weren't getting irl, as people want to sanitize, censor, and ban talk of suicide, only allowing it in hyperspecific scripted contexts, rather than letting people be honest about how they feel.

As long as the right to die isn't legalised, people are going to talk about suicide. It's inevitable. Start working towards laws to allow people to go through the process of ending their life on their own terms, and you will see far less impulsive suicides. Instead of banning this site, shut down the pernicious culture plaguing society that does not allow people to discuss suicide openly. Those of us with chronic, incurable, or terminal illness would be left with nowhere to go if you shutdown this site. Chronic illness communities swing the ban hammer on suicidal individuals.
 
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torimandy

torimandy

Fear is the mind killer
Aug 3, 2020
146
It makes me throw up in my mouth when people direct ire toward the site instead of looking at the whole thing as their own failure. I am pretty sure I know exactly who this was, and the mother doing the bitching about the site actually, by not being supportive of the person was the mother who did the pushing through her hate and inability to accept, support or even try to understand. Then it happens and they blame a website instead of themselves.
I will be taking to twitter with this. This is a story that needs to be told from the person no longer here's point of view to foster a real understanding. The very use of the very wrong name in the news story is the story here.Haters gotta hate and then cast the blame on others instead of themselves where the blame lies.
 
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S

SuicidallyCurious

Enlightened
Dec 20, 2020
1,715
They should go after the Vatican website next. If children open that they could be raped by the pedophile priests , which multiple law enforcement agencies have proved for a fact are raping at rates way out of proportion with the general population
 
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R

Regen

I stay in my power
Aug 20, 2020
369
I am a mother myself. I understand very deeply and honestly how cruel the loss of one's own child is. And I also understand that it seems like a website is to blame.

But it is much too simple. It misses the deep despair of the children. As past as it has often been in some ways in life. Not necessarily always by the parents, but in important places. The culprit is not a site on the Internet, the culprit in the vast majority of cases is an insidious disease. And society's treatment of that disease. And the poor help that "terminally ill" people get far too often. A person with cancer gets the best treatment, a suicidal person has to fight and fight. Suicide is only the symptom, the problem must be fought. And the people whose health is so bad that they die of it, must not leave them alone. That is cruel and inhumane.

Suicide is not prevented by prohibitions. That shows nevertheless the human history completely clearly! Effective help programs reduce suicides, this is also clearly shown by programs of individual countries.

Here in the forum are those, which are already completely on the ground, why is made to us even here the life to the hell and the shelter taken.

Those who think that people are simply talked to death here do not even begin to see what incredible help is provided here. Help for life. Help that works so damn often. But it is easier to read only the sensational headlines of the farewell threads than to really look behind. There is sooooo much more here. So much.
 
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M

My_name_is_Luka

Specialist
Apr 28, 2020
308
Thank you @Regen , you are completely right. Everyone of us comes here for his own reason. Either to talk with other people in similar conditions, to see other cases and to be able to better evaluate his own condition in a different perspective that normal society does not allow; or, the ones that have already decided that it's too painful for them to continue, they search for determinate informations and they already know what they are looking for. No one is taking a new member and is leading him to commit something that he doesn't want.
There are many people that feel like if they have been forgotten, that they do not fit in the normal society, or that they have an unfortunate psychological or physical disease that is bullied, discriminated and not supported enough by health systems. Those are the reasons why someone starts looking for a shelter far away from the eyes of everyone else.
Those mothers should think better what has to be fixed. They are breaking down the shelter of the stray dogs without caring that those dogs will be left again on the streets, with no one caring for them.
 
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Mentalmick

Mentalmick

IMHOTEP!!!
Nov 30, 2020
2,050
Oh please do piss right off. Troubled home/school/work/social life and/or mental illness is the reason they killed themselves. It's got fuck all to do with this site.
 
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popcorn

popcorn

Experienced
Dec 20, 2020
298
this really pisses me off

this site DOES NOT promote suicide in anyway, the information here is available all over the web and ive never seen anyone encourage someone to ctb, infact ive seen the opposite. encouraging people to think carefully about what they're doing

also, if you are going to ctb and you value this site, dont leave this site up on your phone and throw the remaining SN and container away after youve took out what u need.

i feel bad this lady lost her son and is upset, but its certainly not SS fault
 
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popcorn

popcorn

Experienced
Dec 20, 2020
298
they wont ever bring this site down, but if they do just put it on the darkweb.. onion saves the day
 
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esoterispeec

esoterispeec

Student
Nov 20, 2020
130
Censorship doesn't work, and if there was no SS he probably would've killed himself earlier or in a painful manner. I'm sorry for her loss, but this forum is a lifeline to many. Just coming here to chat and blow of steam. Many people here would probably ctb if this forum was banned. Suicide is a human trait and a certain percentage of people will always kill themselves ( 1 million a year) the Only way to prevent all of someone's suffering is for them to never exist, never to be born. Sleep is good, death is better, but the greatest thing of all is to have never been born. -HH
 
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popcorn

popcorn

Experienced
Dec 20, 2020
298
they shut a gore site down. Do you think the dark web will increase in popularity?
what gore site? the dark web markets are are booming and always have been. so i dont see why not
 
Conker

Conker

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
351
He was nearby me, my condolences and love to his soul. May you all see justice and healing.


 
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blue_muse

blue_muse

Mage
Jan 31, 2021
552
The powers that be have meetings > biased literature circulated > restrictions or bans imposed.

Understand the mother's anger, still, her adult son had clearly made his mind up before visiting this site. Becoming some kind of moral crusader is not the way to go about things. When someone is made to feel like they don't have a voice in real life and just so happen to find their voice on somewhere like SS, it is too little too late to play the blame game when that person takes their own life.

SS users, who make goodbye threads, repeatedly being asked that they are sure they want end their life hardly screams "Go on kill yourself!".
 
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M

mifinal

New Member
Feb 15, 2021
4
si uno siente que es su final o que esta cerca, que mejor forma que poder expresarlo sin causar mas dolor es por aquí, y nadie quiere quedarse vegetal yo quiero valorar la mejor opción para mi final, y así supongo todos los que estamos aquí ese chico busco su final, tiene que existir de todo los que viven un sueño y los que no queremos vivir, seguramente encontró refugio y sentirse un poco menos loco, estar mal es fácil lo difícil es estar bien.
 
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StringPuppet

StringPuppet

Lost
Oct 5, 2020
579
I guess they want us to try more difficult ways to kill ourselves so we'll all be injured in the process
 
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X

xaea13

Student
Jul 13, 2020
100
This article just makes me sad for so many reasons. First of all my heart goes out to the family; I'm no pro-lifer but the grief a ctb can cause the victim's family is very, very real. Not to mention the kid himself, his life in those last few months must've been hell.
But for once, people need to stop blaming this damn site for anything and everything. If that kid was determined enough to come here for advice, he was gonna attempt ctb no matter what. And who knows what kind of horrific long-term injuries he would've ended up with if he tried a bad ctb method. Yet this place is painted as some Grim Reaper that convinces people to ctb. God knows how many people SS has saved from lifelong debilitating injuries.
 
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ixkitty

ixkitty

Let me be Selfish, just this once.
Aug 15, 2020
355
I actually planed to have a video pre CTB telling everyone why I'm making my decision. Even if they find the site, they'll know this place saved me more than anything. I've had such support on my rash decisions, helpful encouragement without being called "selfish" or any of the other slurs I hear quite often, and praise when I changed my mind from my rash decisions..
 
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AnniesHideaway

AnniesHideaway

Member
Jul 1, 2020
52
Easier to blame SS then take an ounce (24.35 grams) of responsibility.
 
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