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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
If life is inherently meaningless - how come we have a concept of meaning at all?

For example - we cannot have a concept of a round triangle; it is illogical.
But most, or all of us, seem to have an innate understanding of "purpose" or "meaning". If those things didn't exist at all, how can we have a concept of them?

If you're someone who believes in evolution and that the "purpose" of that is to continue the species - I don't understand how evolution, a non conscious thing, can have a purpose? I know people just say evolution doesn't REALLY have a purpose, it's just our way of understanding it, but again, where does that come from - why do we understand things as having a "purpose" if purpose is not real?
 
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Dark Window

Dark Window

Forest Wanderer
Mar 12, 2024
548
Here's my take on it

- Nothing is objectively meaningful. Life is not a biproduct of meaning. I don't believe God exists and I don't believe life has any purpose or meaning to it.

However -

- We have evolved to experience things as meaningful, so on some level things can be meaningful in the sense that things are meaningful TO YOU. Nothing out there has objective meaning inside of it, but the meaning exists in the experience. It's meaningful to you but not necessarily to someone else.

- It's whether or not that thing has emotional significance to you that determines if it is going to be meaningful or not.

So it does exist on a subjective level. Just like Beauty doesn't objectively exist but it does subjectively in your experience. You're not going to say beauty doesn't exist are you?
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
"We have evolved to experience things as meaningful, so on some level things can be meaningful in the sense that things are meaningful TO YOU. Nothing out there has objective meaning inside of it, but the meaning exists in the experience. It's meaningful to you but not necessarily to someone else."

But why have we evolved to experience things as meaningful? What is the evolutionary "purpose" of that? I can't even ask the question without referring to purpose.

Even if what is meaningful is subjective - meaning still exists, like you say. Are you saying there's no reason for "meaning" existing?
 
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Dark Window

Dark Window

Forest Wanderer
Mar 12, 2024
548
"We have evolved to experience things as meaningful, so on some level things can be meaningful in the sense that things are meaningful TO YOU. Nothing out there has objective meaning inside of it, but the meaning exists in the experience. It's meaningful to you but not necessarily to someone else."

But why have we evolved to experience things as meaningful? What is the evolutionary "purpose" of that? I can't even ask the question without referring to purpose.

Even if what is meaningful is subjective - meaning still exists, like you say. Are you saying there's no reason for "meaning" existing?

The evolutionary reason is likely so you will focus on things that are beneficial to your survival.

For example - Raising kids is meaningful to a lot of people. Those who raise their kids well are likely to have kids that are healthy and more likely to survive and procreate.

Another example - Having a purpose. Those who experience purpose as something that is meaningful are likely to provide value to others and therefore solidify a good social status and also a healthier tribe to provide them with value in return.
 
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drearysunrise

drearysunrise

Member
Feb 3, 2024
44
My view is very similar to Dark Window's. When it comes to evolutionary purpose, I would say that the subjective experience of meaning helps keep us alive by promoting positive social behavior. Experiencing a sense of purpose gives people the motivation to contribute to society in ways that facilitate survival of the collective. I also think it makes people less likely to resort to suicide. With how harsh reality is, and all of the inconveniences and pain we happen to experience in life, I'm not sure that the human race would want to live at all without this idea of making sense of it all. Hence why people who feel purposeless often do feel depressed or suicidal.

Evolution doesn't really have a "purpose". We just use that to refer to the premise of how it works. A living being with traits that help them survive is just more likely to survive and reproduce. It isn't perfect and calculated. You can examine both the body and mind and find many ways in which the traits humans have are simply "good enough" to survive without being as efficient as they theoretically could be.

I think we tend to ascribe purpose and intent to that force of nature largely because it exists in contrast to the established religious concept of intelligent design. I also think it's because our brains evolved to problem-solve, so we often examine the evolution of traits from a human perspective of reverse engineering, where humans design everything with a purpose in mind.
 
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Ash

Ash

Enlightened
Oct 4, 2021
1,446
I don't want to be dismissive but whether it's on websites like this or on sofas on lazy Sunday mornings on down the pub the night before or whatever, this kind of question gets asked a lot. The problem is, even putting aside religious and spiritual leaders, academics of many different specialities spend their entire careers attempting to answer tiny aspects of similar questions. And it keeps getting asked because we never answer it satisfactorily. There are always new ideas, even in the old faiths. Life itself doesn't stand still and neither does the human mind.
 
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abchia

abchia

Student
Aug 28, 2023
118
I don't believe life has meaning or purpose since we all die in the end. But if someone says they were living a "meaningful" life, I would assume they spend their time doing things that are important to them. So rather than associating meaning as a big picture concept of all of human life, I see it on an individual level of what someone wants to accomplish or experience in their time being here.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
If
The evolutionary reason is likely so you will focus on things that are beneficial to your survival.

For example - Raising kids is meaningful to a lot of people. Those who raise their kids well are likely to have kids that are healthy and more likely to survive and procreate.

Another example - Having a purpose. Those who experience purpose as something that is meaningful are likely to provide value to others and therefore solidify a good social status and also a healthier tribe to provide them with value in return.
Could we not substitute the word "purpose" with the word "reason" here?

"The evolutionary purpose is likely so you will focus on things that are beneficial to your survival".

I'm struggling to put into words what I'm trying to say, but the word "reason" in this sentence suggests you are responding to a "why" question

I suppose what I'm (very poorly) trying to say is - why do we have a concept of "why", and not just "how"?

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say
 
Dark Window

Dark Window

Forest Wanderer
Mar 12, 2024
548
If

Could we not substitute the word "purpose" with the word "reason" here?

"The evolutionary purpose is likely so you will focus on things that are beneficial to your survival".

I'm struggling to put into words what I'm trying to say, but the word "reason" in this sentence suggests you are responding to a "why" question

I suppose what I'm (very poorly) trying to say is - why do we have a concept of "why", and not just "how"?

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say
I think I understand because 'how' implies that it simply happened as a result. 'Why' would, in this case, imply that someone else made it that way for a reason to serve some other cause.

I suppose the reason we have a concept of why is because there are now intelligence, conscious being in existence (humans and maybe aliens), who do things as a result of a decision making process as opposed to things just happening like a flower blooming purely as a result of natural processes without a decision making process.
 
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Mirrory Me

Mirrory Me

"Life's a mirror, but 'whose' mirror?"
Mar 23, 2023
749
"What is the meaning of life, god, the univerve and everything..."

The meaning can be subjective, on how you experience things you see. Some see and and experience the presence of god- may ask it questions and get answers by searching. Good thing about asking is that someone else can see and understand things that someone else can't.
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
If life is inherently meaningless - how come we have a concept of meaning at all?

For example - we cannot have a concept of a round triangle; it is illogical.
But most, or all of us, seem to have an innate understanding of "purpose" or "meaning". If those things didn't exist at all, how can we have a concept of them?

If you're someone who believes in evolution and that the "purpose" of that is to continue the species - I don't understand how evolution, a non conscious thing, can have a purpose? I know people just say evolution doesn't REALLY have a purpose, it's just our way of understanding it, but again, where does that come from - why do we understand things as having a "purpose" if purpose is not real?
Thr's a lot of confusion there for two short posts.
(1) If life is inherently meaningless - how come we have a concept of meaning at all? There is no relation between the two parts of your sentence, so I'm not going to waste time trying to respond to it. Try posing a meaningful question. (Before you do that, you could read about the "meaning of 'meaning'" in any good philosophy book.)
(2) Nobody who understands evolution claims that it has a purpose. Don't raise 'straw man' arguments.
(3) It makes no sense to ask "What is the evolutionary purpose of X?". What does make sense is to ask questions like "What selective forces led to the evolution of X". For example, a plausible answer to the question "What selective forces led to the evolution of the major histocompatibility complex?", is "transmissible cancers". (That may not be 100% of the explanation, but it is likely to be part.)
 
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A

Artemisia

Experienced
May 24, 2024
202
The concepts of meaning and purpose are just a consequence of self awareness. When human brains evolved enough that our ancestors became self aware and capable of abstract thinking, they almost certainly struggled with the question of "why?". Why am I here, is that all there is, hunt, eat, suffer, etc? As far as we know, animals have no concept of meaning and purpose, they act on instinct, they exist in the here and now, and maybe only incipiently some have that combination of self awareness and abstract thinking, but no where near human levels. As far as we know, no animals have a concept of gods or religion.
So humans struggled with the realization that death is the end, that suffering has no meaning and it's easier just to end it all, with the perception of how big and uncontrollable the world/universe is, etc, etc. And evolution being what it is gave those who were capable of imagining a solution to that problem an edge, an advantage. Those who could imagine answers to not only that issue, but also to everyday happenings, like why does it rain sometimes, why is it so dry sometimes that we barely have enough to eat, how can we control if it rains or not, etc, etc, could calm themselves, give themselves an explanation that eased their fears of nothingness and impotence in the great scheme of things. In an imponderable world this was an advantage and those who could do it were almost certainly more motivated to go on with daily life than those who could not. Being religious became the norm because it made our brains not freak out when asking the difficult questions about life and the universe. With the advancement of science that became less necessary and that's why the higher and better scientific education the less prone people are to be religious. Of course we still struggle with purpose, because we're aware all these things, but purpose doesn't have to be grandiose, doesn't have to be about changing the world either now or for the future. Individual purpose can be just living to make sure your children are happy and well set for life, being successful in a big pay, big house, big car sort of way. Or eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die. When all purpose is lost, people do inevitably get depressed and depression is characterized by not taking care of oneself, being less capable of reacting to danger, less capable of having children or taking care of them so that they reach adulthood and perpetuate the species. Evolution obviously does not favor depressed people and that's why, even with the huge development of science, our brains still benefit from finding purpose.

It's obvious you had a very poor scientific education, I see it time and time again in people who struggle to understand evolution. You're almost certainly American.
Evolution may not have that higher meaning, but it certainly has purpose. Evolution is not some path towards perfection or anything like that. Survival of the fittest is also misinterpreted, as it often has little to do with being bigger or stronger. The purpose of evolution is adaption to the ever changing environment. Climate changes, conditions change, what was yesterday the fittest is today unfit. Evolution can happen slowly overtime, like when one region starts getting progressively hotter or colder and the living things that inhabit it have to adapt. Take a cold area that becomes hotter: cold adapted animals usually have big layers of isolating fat, lots of fur, small noses/snout. An animal that doesn't have lots of fat and fur isn't likely to survive very long and reproduce. But then the weather starts getting slowly warmer, the big, fat and and furry, well adjusted animal from before starts overheating, can't run as fast, either can't hunt enough food or can't escape the predators. As for the skinner guy, it now feels fine, is able to get food and get away from predators and pass on its genes to many offspring.
Evolution can also happen quite fast, but the principle is the same. The classical example is about moths and the industrial revolution in the UK. Moths used to be whitish so as to blend well with the bark of birch trees, which made it harder for predators to spot them. Then a factory was built which produced lots of dark smoke, this smoke covered the bark of the trees and turned them dark. Suddenly, the whitish moths that had so well prospered, stood out like they had a target on their backs. But nature is always prepared for this sort of catastrophic event. You see, even if it wasn't benefitial at all for them, dark moths were always born along the white ones. Only a few and with little change to live long, but they did exist. And suddenly, they were the fittest for that environment, the ones living long and reproducing. In very few years the moths were almost all dark... and then factories became cleaner, birch trees went back showing their real colours, and moths are now mostly whitish again.
This is evolution and its purpose.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
Thr's a lot of confusion there for two short posts.
(1) If life is inherently meaningless - how come we have a concept of meaning at all? There is no relation between the two parts of your sentence, so I'm not going to waste time trying to respond to it. Try posing a meaningful question. (Before you do that, you could read about the "meaning of 'meaning'" in any good philosophy book.)
(2) Nobody who understands evolution claims that it has a purpose. Don't raise 'straw man' arguments.
(3) It makes no sense to ask "What is the evolutionary purpose of X?". What does make sense is to ask questions like "What selective forces led to the evolution of X". For example, a plausible answer to the question "What selective forces led to the evolution of the major histocompatibility complex?", is "transmissible cancers". (That may not be 100% of the explanation, but it is likely to be part.)
1) I think the two things are related. I'm just not very good at articulating why I think that.
I suppose what I'm saying is - meaning MUST exist, because we have a concept of it. It's self-evident. In the same way consciousness is self-evident.
If meaning didn't exist, we'd have no concept of it.

2) I'm not saying that they claim that necessarily - but that it is very difficult (at least for me) to talk about evolution in ways without referring to "purpose".

3) That makes sense, yes.
 
pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
2,131
There is no objective purpose or reason to life or to live

What will matter in 200 years? In A trillion years? Nothing . Nothing matters.

In a trillion years this insignificant torture dungeon, this speck of dust called Earth won't exist not even in the mind of an ai. Nothing really matters.

Humans are almost identical biologically to other species of animals. For example a nerve cell is the same in a human fish and fly , a nerve cell = a brain cell a neuron

The only difference is humans download Culture from ages 0 to 7 years through language. I think it's just a handful of genes that allows this download of culture and language that differentiates humans from other apes like chimpanzees .

But this culture difference is subjective fiction. What's real is pain . If one throws liters of boiling water on a dog, mouse, chimpanzee, human all Will suffer unbearable pain . The fictional cultural belief is that watching a football / sport event is something enjoyable and worth that unbearable pain . " Enjoy yourself". fuck that

I think a human doesn't know hardly anything at age 1 , 2, 3 years old at birth etc

Almost all of what evolution programed is seen at birth mostly only those instincts and knowledge .

Evolution made A human a learning machine. The culture / society , media , other humans program a human mostly from ages 0 to 7. Also from 0 to 13 and from 0 to death.

Almost everything a human believes , thinks etc is programmed by the culture / society and media ( movies tv news etc.) and other people .

Otherwise babies would be born speaking and thinking like an adult , knowing adult concepts

There is no objective purpose or reason to life or to live

All that culture beliefs, definitions, etc are subjective fiction . It's all to help the society survive. For example the belief that " having children is good" the belief that "life is good".

I reject all those lies . Life is evil. Having children is not good . I prove through rational analysis that life is bad . For example the extreme pain torture far outweighs any supposed good or pleasurable crap.

 
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jar-baby

jar-baby

Arcanist
Jun 20, 2023
443
I suppose what I'm saying is - meaning MUST exist, because we have a concept of it.
I think that depends on how you define meaning. Meaning is something you can experience in the subjective sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's an objective purpose to life. Not everything we can conceptualise objectively exists.

This article argues that objective meaning doesn't make sense as a concept.

The point here is that meaning is always the result of an interaction between a conscious mind and the world and therefore that inherent meaning is as nonsensical as inherent size or motion.
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
1) I think the two things are related. I'm just not very good at articulating why I think that.
I suppose what I'm saying is - meaning MUST exist, because we have a concept of it. It's self-evident. In the same way consciousness is self-evident.
If meaning didn't exist, we'd have no concept of it.

2) I'm not saying that they claim that necessarily - but that it is very difficult (at least for me) to talk about evolution in ways without referring to "purpose".

3) That makes sense, yes.
(1) I have a clear concept of a unicorn, but unicorns do not exist.
(2) You are not alone in finding language involving "purpose" to be convenient when discussion evolutionary matters. Biologists sometimes do it too. I sometimes do it too. But we know that it is only to be taken as a convenient metaphor, that we can always translate what we say into non-purposeful language, and that when we want to be precise we must use non-purposeful language.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
6,346
If life is inherently meaningless - how come we have a concept of meaning at all?

For example - we cannot have a concept of a round triangle; it is illogical.
But most, or all of us, seem to have an innate understanding of "purpose" or "meaning". If those things didn't exist at all, how can we have a concept of them?

If you're someone who believes in evolution and that the "purpose" of that is to continue the species - I don't understand how evolution, a non conscious thing, can have a purpose? I know people just say evolution doesn't REALLY have a purpose, it's just our way of understanding it, but again, where does that come from - why do we understand things as having a "purpose" if purpose is not real?
You'd have a concept of a "round triangle" if that would have been what you were taught. Roundness, triangles, squares, God are all man-made constructs. If you had been placed on an island at birth, and somehow managed to survive and mature to an age where some type of "self consciousness" came about, you'd have no idea of anything. You wouldn't know what to call things, you wouldn't know what you were, you'd have no language. You would no nothing except that you require food, water, and you need to shit, pee, and maintain warmth. EVERYTHING you know, short of survival instinct, is because it has been instilled into you by other human beings. And that includes finding things meaningful, or some meaning to life.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,095
I think it's just a feeling we get. Just like other feelings- happiness, satisfaction, anger, jealousy. It's a response we do or don't get to outside stimulus. As to what stimulates us to feel motivated- like something is worth pursuing in life is just as individual as what makes us laugh, what makes us cry etc.

I suppose then the question is- why do we have emotions at all? What is their purpose? I guess it's to try and tell us what things we want more of in life and- what we want to avoid.

As for evolutionary benefit- I imagine most of the most successful of our species- in terms of achievement anyhow- inventing, discovering or creating things were likely very motivated. They found purpose through their achievements in their field and we got to reap the benefits most likely.

Imagine if your favourite musicians or authors/ artists/ actors/ inventors/ philosophers/ scientists/ athletes etc. had taken the nihilist approach and not bothered! I reckon life would be all that bit harder and more depressing if no one bothered pursuing their dreams.

Plus, it's a competitive world out there. You may not even succeed if you do actually work hard to achieve your goals but if there's no motivation at all, it's got to be even harder. Which would you prefer? A job in something you're interested in and enjoy or- wage slavery? Unless you're lucky enough to be talented in something sort after, chances are, you're going to have to fight tooth and claw to do a job you actually like. Feeling motivated- or like your end goal has purpose/ is your purpose in life can help motivate us.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
(1) I have a clear concept of a unicorn, but unicorns do not exist.
(2) You are not alone in finding language involving "purpose" to be convenient when discussion evolutionary matters. Biologists sometimes do it too. I sometimes do it too. But we know that it is only to be taken as a convenient metaphor, that we can always translate what we say into non-purposeful language, and that when we want to be precise we must use non-purposeful language.
1) Sorry I am sleep deprived and expressing myself terribly
But a unicorn would have a body. It would be a "living thing". Meaning is a concept, not a "thing" in the way a unicorn would be.
I think any concept we have a concept of - must exist. A concept exists by definition.
For example - thoughts must exist, or we wouldn't experience thought.
Happiness exists. We must have been happy at some point, to have a concept of it.
Sadness exists. We must have been sad, to have a concept of sadness.
Meaning must exist. We must have felt something to be meaningful, to have a concept of it.
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
1,947
Evolution doesn't have a purpose. There is no specific endgame or goal when it comes to evolution. It's just a natural process that takes place as a result of our ever changing world. If we evolved to find meaning in things, then that's probably because it aided in our survival. For example, finding meaning in things may have aided our ancestors in forming social bonds with those around them.

There is no real innate meaning to life. People's "purpose" in life differ greatly from one another. Some people find that the meaning of life is their family, their career, living life for their god/gods, etc. None of us actually have an innate understanding or purpose, which is why so many people go through a whole mental crisis trying to figure out what the purpose of their existence is.
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
1) Sorry I am sleep deprived and expressing myself terribly
But a unicorn would have a body. It would be a "living thing". Meaning is a concept, not a "thing" in the way a unicorn would be.
I think any concept we have a concept of - must exist. A concept exists by definition.
For example - thoughts must exist, or we wouldn't experience thought.
Happiness exists. We must have been happy at some point, to have a concept of it.
Sadness exists. We must have been sad, to have a concept of sadness.
Meaning must exist. We must have felt something to be meaningful, to have a concept of it.
Read up about what the word "meaning" is usually taken to mean. The topic is discussed in many philosophy books. I don't want to write a whole chapter of a philosophy book here.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
You'd have a concept of a "round triangle" if that would have been what you were taught. Roundness, triangles, squares, God are all man-made constructs. If you had been placed on an island at birth, and somehow managed to survive and mature to an age where some type of "self consciousness" came about, you'd have no idea of anything. You wouldn't know what to call things, you wouldn't know what you were, you'd have no language. You would no nothing except that you require food, water, and you need to shit, pee, and maintain warmth. EVERYTHING you know, short of survival instinct, is because it has been instilled into you by other human beings. And that includes finding things meaningful, or some meaning to life.
I don't understand how anyone could teach me the concept of a "round triangle"
It's the same as saying "a triangle is not a triangle"
 
BARIZON

BARIZON

BARIZON 1st of His Name
Nov 13, 2020
191
I think any concept we have a concept of - must exist. A concept exists by definition.
You are NOT expressing your ideas poorly, it's just that they are simply wrong ... If you can't distinguish things that exists only in the realm of concepts in the human mind from things that are inherent to nature and the universe at large, then it makes this discussion somewhat redundant.

Your brain interprets the world, and attributes meaning to it. The reason it's that way is because it was useful to our survival and procreation. It's quite simple actually, I don't understand why you resist accepting it.
Also, accepting the nature of your brain not necessarily make things less meaningful, at the end of the day,the only way to live life with purpose is to accept your intuition and follow your "heart". If you love your family, want to make a contribution to society, wanna help people around you, wanna be a good friend, prosper financially, you should simply follow your desires.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
Read up about what the word "meaning" is usually taken to mean. The topic is discussed in many philosophy books. I don;t want to write a whole chapter of a philosophy book here.
I know it probably doesn't show here at all, because I am writing very unclearly, but I don't think I am completely ignorant when it comes to philosophy. My bachelor's degree is in philosophy, and I got a first. That obviously does not make me an expert in any way and you may well be way more educated than me on this, you probably are, but I do think I understand what "meaning" means? (this isn't meant to come across as rude at all, I really hope it doesn't, I might be wrong! I find it hard to put into words what "meaning" means, I admit. In the same way I would find it hard to describe what "yellow" or "happy" means)
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
I know it probably doesn't show here at all, because I am writing very unclearly, but I don't think I am completely ignorant when it comes to philosophy. My bachelor's degree is in philosophy, and I got a first. That obviously does not make me an expert in any way and you may well be way more educated than me on this, you probably are, but I do think I understand what "meaning" means? (this isn't meant to come across as rude at all, I really hope it doesn't, I might be wrong! I find it hard to put into words what "meaning" means, I admit. In the same way I would find it hard to describe what "yellow" or "happy" means)
OK, but if we are going to discuss difficult topics like this it is really important that ideas be expressed clearly and with precision. Otherwise, any attempt at a discussion will just degenerate into a mess.
 
wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
OK, but if we are going to discuss difficult topics like this it is really important that ideas be expressed clearly and with precision. Otherwise, any attempt at a discussion will just degenerate into a mess.
you're right - sorry, I am at work so looking at that at the time time, and my thoughts are going 1000 miles an hour right now (OCD causing that I think); I am a mess at the moment and feeling overwhelmed but also talking about this is really important to me considering it probably has an impact on whether or not I choose to end my life
I do think what I am thinking makes sense but I am really struggling to articulate myself, I'm sorry for that
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
9,944
If you're someone who believes in evolution and that the "purpose" of that is to continue the species - I don't understand how evolution, a non conscious thing, can have a purpose? I know people just say evolution doesn't REALLY have a purpose, it's just our way of understanding it, but again, where does that come from - why do we understand things as having a "purpose" if purpose is not real?
Whether evolution has a purpose or not can only be answered if we ever find an answer to the question why the universe came into existence.
 
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wildflowers1996

wildflowers1996

Arcanist
Oct 14, 2023
425
I think what people are trying to say here is:

Meaning exists, but only subjectively. There is no "objective" meaning. Subjective meaning arose as a result of evolution. Evolution has no meaning.

I suppose I just find it very strange how the concept of "meaning" comes from something with no meaning.
In the same way, how consciousness arose from something that is not conscious.
 
sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,628
People try to bring order to a chaotic world. Searching for meaning is trying to make something out of the absurd
 
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BARIZON

BARIZON

BARIZON 1st of His Name
Nov 13, 2020
191
I think what people are trying to say here is:

Meaning exists, but only subjectively. There is no "objective" meaning. Subjective meaning arose as a result of evolution. Evolution has no meaning.

I suppose I just find it very strange how the concept of "meaning" comes from something with no meaning.
In the same way, how consciousness arose from something that is not conscious.
Consciousness is indeed weird, nobody, literally nobody, can understand its inner workings. The process of evolution is quite simple, but through the billions of years has produced things that are far too complex for us to understand completely. In a certain way consciousness, and every aspect of current living things, are merely byproducts of evolution, that, as you said, has no inherent purpose, at least that we know of.


Maybe a higher force in creating the universe implemented the mechanics which allow evolution to take place with an intention in mind, but for me this is simply wild and unbased speculation, although i would admit cannot be proven or disproven.
 
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