Psychiatric euthanasia

[Midgardsorm]

@noaccount

Hi. The user westie22 seems to not be interested in engaging with you anymore.

I understand your points, but, there has been some reports from op and I will have to ask for your cooperation.

@westie22

The ignore function on the forum application will block the selected user from engaging with you. They will not see the your posts anymore nor they will be able to reply to you.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

@noaccount

Hi. The user westie22 seems to not be interested in engaging with you anymore.

I understand your points, but, there has been some reports from op and I will have to ask for your cooperation.

@westie22

The ignore function on the forum application will block the selected user from engaging with you. They will not see the your posts anymore nor they will be able to reply to you.

Thank you! Much appreciated. I will do that

 

[TheBestUsernameEver]

Treatment resistant bipolar disorder is my psychiatric condition but I have other medical conditions as well

Always been medication compliant, seeing mental professionals regularly, no substance abuse. I've done everything asked of me even treatments I'd never thought I'd do like ECT. I've lost more than I've gained from mental health treatment. My life is miserable, and I want to die every moment.

Still think I don't deserve mercy to end the suffering?

I have bipolar too.
Suffered with depression for over a decade.
Used to think that I should have died years ago. It was the depression talking.

If somebody told me 5 years ago that I would be in recovery in 5 years time, I would not have attempted su**ide again. I would have continued fighting...

...you don't know that you're never going to recover and when that might be.

I will say that you've got to be prepared to change your life if you want to recover.
Depression had me so tightly in its grasp that it became part of me. I had to arm myself with effective weapons in order to fight the black dog.

Medication is helping me immeasurably, as is making an effort to socialise. Finding an interest (cooking) is also helping me to concentrate on something positive.

PM me if you like and we can discuss without airing your deepest emotions in public view.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

I have bipolar too.
Suffered with depression for over a decade.
Used to think that I should have died years ago. It was the depression talking.

If somebody told me 5 years ago that I would be in recovery in 5 years time, I would not have attempted su**ide again. I would have continued fighting...

...you don't know that you're never going to recover and when that might be.

I will say that you've got to be prepared to change your life if you want to recover.
Depression had me so tightly in its grasp that it became part of me. I had to arm myself with effective weapons in order to fight the black dog.

Medication is helping me immeasurably, as is making an effort to socialise. Finding an interest (cooking) is also helping me to concentrate on something positive.

PM me if you like and we can discuss without airing your deepest emotions in public view.

I think you can't underestimate the power of how a medication can fuel the ability to do that. I'm glad you've found one that works for you to do that. If I had something like that that worked, it would be a great platform to start from. When that isn't the case, it's not so easy to start that fight. Who can fight when you're full of apathy, ahedonia, lack of motivation, lethargy? Those aren't things you can just make disappear out of no where.

Sure, give me an antidepressant, and it will fix all those things!! Oh..but wait actually that's mania from antidepressant induced mania. Everything they give me to help depression induces mania so they won't prescribe anything even with appropriate anti manics. Tms induced mania. ECT induced mania. You name it. So the answer is keep me depressed, lethargic, miserable, suicidal.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the if you only try harder you can get yourself out of this by just finding internal motivation. Like you said, you had a medication that helps you immensely . I literally have nothing to motivate myself to do anything but commit suicide to end the suffering and pain.

 

[TheBestUsernameEver]

I think you can't underestimate the power of how a medication can fuel the ability to do that. I'm glad you've found one that works for you to do that. If I had something like that that worked, it would be a great platform to start from. When that isn't the case, it's not so easy to start that fight. Who can fight when you're full of apathy, ahedonia, lack of motivation, lethargy? Those aren't things you can just make disappear out of no where.

Sure, give me an antidepressant, and it will fix all those things!! Oh..but wait actually that's mania from antidepressant induced mania. Everything they give me to help depression induces mania so they won't prescribe anything even with appropriate anti manics. Tms induced mania. ECT induced mania. You name it. So the answer is keep me depressed, lethargic, miserable, suicidal.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the if you only try harder you can get yourself out of this by just finding internal motivation. Like you said, you had a medication that helps you immensely . I literally have nothing to motivate myself to do anything but commit suicide to end the suffering and pain.

I totally understand the bipolar diagnosis along with the apathy and lack of motivation, symptoms of depression. I have experienced it first hand.

I'm not a fan of reducing everything to a simplistic philosophical debate since in doing so we:

1. Lose the nuances associated with an individual's specific situation.

2. Don't appreciate or even recognise the small steps forward.

3. If we're not careful, we can simply talk ourselves out of existence!

Whether one feels good as a result of medication or without it, the feeling is the same regardless of how it has been induced. This is the very purpose of antidepressants.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

I totally understand the bipolar diagnosis along with the apathy and lack of motivation, symptoms of depression. I have experienced it first hand.

I'm not a fan of reducing everything to a simplistic philosophical debate since in doing so we:

1. Lose the nuances associated with an individual's specific situation.

2. Don't appreciate or even recognise the small steps forward.

3. If we're not careful, we can simply talk ourselves out of existence!

Whether one feels good as a result of medication or without it, the feeling is the same regardless of how it has been induced. This is the very purpose of antidepressants.

I feel like this discussion though has gotten side tracked. The question was whether not someone should be able to make the decision for psychiatric euthanasia. The main argument against it that I've gotten from you is that..you don't know if something will change and you will recover in the future. What if I believe it's my right to proceed with it knowing that I'm giving up my future "chance" of recovery? What if I'm willing to say that doesn't matter to me..I want it anyway? Isn't that the same decision I'm making anyway if I commit suicide?

 

[TheBestUsernameEver]

I feel like this discussion though has gotten side tracked. The question was whether not someone should be able to make the decision for psychiatric euthanasia. The main argument against it that I've gotten from you is that..you don't know if something will change and you will recover in the future. What if I believe it's my right to proceed with it knowing that I'm giving up my future "chance" of recovery? What if I'm willing to say that doesn't matter to me..I want it anyway? Isn't that the same decision I'm making anyway if I commit suicide?

Yes it got sidetracked because I was trying to help you specifically

Regarding your question, I haven't really formed an opinion either way.
Tell me more about why you believe what you do and how far you go with it.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Yes it got sidetracked because I was trying to help you specifically

Regarding your question, I haven't really formed an opinion either way.
Tell me more about why you believe what you do and how far you go with it.

I just believe that there are some patients with psychiatric diagnosis that can't be helped. I do feel like one of them and when you're given a treatment resistant diagnosis and told by your long term psychiatrist and therapist (and having other opinions doesn't make a difference) that they have no more ideas for you, that seems like an appropriate moment in time to consider that your diagnosis is not treatable. So when you say we shouldn't compare that to a diagnosis like cancer, that's not fair to me. I also have already stated on here I've worked in healthcare. I've worked on palliative care and hospice units. I've seen how people with a medical diagnosis like cancer and others get to die being pumped with pain meds. I've thought while watching these people die, who is going to help make me comfortable when I die? No one. I'm going to die shooting mysef in the head not knowing what kind of pain I'm going to put myself through. Why don't I as a pysch patient get treated with the same decency that I've helped others suffering with? When you started your post saying mental illnesses are treatable so we shouldn't compare them to medical ones…that's not true for everyone. I'm happy that happened for you, but not all people recover from mental illness.

I don't believe it should be something granted to necessarily everyone. I realize sometimes people are going through difficult life situations that may be temporary and time may change their suicidal thoughts. I know for a fact, there was no specific situation that caused me to have chronic suicidal thoughts that I could work through like a break up or something. Figuring that out would be a tough process. There would be conflict into how it would have to be regulated. I don't have the answers to how that would be regulated best. I know they are doing it in a few European countries. Basically give a cocktail of meds and you fall asleep and die painless with no suffering.

 

[t-rex]

Who can fight when you're full of apathy, ahedonia, lack of motivation, lethargy? Those aren't things you can just make disappear out of no where.

Yeah, I really feel this lately. I'm sick of therapists and family trying to coax me into just taking action and starting to do stuff, as if that's going to create a miraculous upward spiral that I will ride to full recovery. I can't get people to understand that I have absolutely no drive or motivation towards anything in life, no goals, long term or even short term. I literally don't know how to live anymore, nothing interests me.

Sadly medication hasn't helped. Thinking of trying ECT next. Would you be willing to share more about your experience with that? It feels like my last hope, short of getting enrolled in a research trial to get an electrode implanted in my brain for deep brain stimulation.

I did try TMS as well. And ketamine. Both unsuccessful. Have you tried ketamine?

As for the physician assisted euthanasia, I'm not sure I have a strong opinion. I can see both sides. But given my own condition lately, I'm inclined to agree with you, westie. For the chronically, untreatably mentally ill, a peaceful death should be a right.

I really hope ECT can reboot me into a world of hope.

 

[PDAnnie2610]

Those look like interesting articles to read further thanks for providing! I appreciate you following up on that. I'm not an ect advocate. I just hate how everything you do for pysch treatments has to be secretive because somewhere someone is treating people atrociously but in other places not so much. I could never admit to people I did ect because no one understands. Some people have life changing results. Good for them. I didn't. I just hate that I can't talk about it openly because of so many negative opinions

I don't know anyone who is typically forced into chemotherapy? Maybe family encouragement. But you give informed consent. My point is that is a doctor knowingly providing a treatment that is harmful to the body and horrendous but with the hope it cures a disease. But again it's with a hope..it's not a given. You give consent for the torture of chemo. Just like I give consent for all the horrendous psych meds I've taken over the years. Unless you have court mandated meds..it's always your choice to take what a psychiatrist offers you. And up to you to do your own research about your diagnosis and condition, side effects of treatments, etc.

I had a nurse forced me to take psych meds inpatient even though that medication was causing visual impairment. When I refused, she said they could easily get an order for it to be administered in injection form.

 

[PDAnnie2610]

I think you can't underestimate the power of how a medication can fuel the ability to do that. I'm glad you've found one that works for you to do that. If I had something like that that worked, it would be a great platform to start from. When that isn't the case, it's not so easy to start that fight. Who can fight when you're full of apathy, ahedonia, lack of motivation, lethargy? Those aren't things you can just make disappear out of no where.

Sure, give me an antidepressant, and it will fix all those things!! Oh..but wait actually that's mania from antidepressant induced mania. Everything they give me to help depression induces mania so they won't prescribe anything even with appropriate anti manics. Tms induced mania. ECT induced mania. You name it. So the answer is keep me depressed, lethargic, miserable, suicidal.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the if you only try harder you can get yourself out of this by just finding internal motivation. Like you said, you had a medication that helps you immensely . I literally have nothing to motivate myself to do anything but commit suicide to end the suffering and pain.

I've been through many many combos before they found something that work when it's needed. But the trial by 'fire' had burnt me badly.

For the bipolar symptoms I used to 'have' which was antidepressant triggered, they trialled

Valproate
Quetiapine
Paliperidone
Stelazine
Bupropion alongside lamictal

Till they found haloperidol which helped calmed the agitation. But now I'm without it, I withdraw to cope but the endless rehearsal of the 101 ways to kill myself occupies my time in between work and rest.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. It takes a lot a lot of trial to find something that works and some of those combo they tried nearly killed me. They would have moved onto ECT at one point for me too but I pulled through with haloperidol and lamictal. They were willing to consider zyprexa despite the risk to my physical health as I'm at elevated risk for diabetes. Risperidone worked for my uncle till he gave up on being med compliant and he's now dead after drinking himself into multi-organ failure.

Sounds like someone who should be reported for inappropriate bedside manner. Did they have a court order to give you meds

No. But I was sectioned for treatment.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Yeah, I really feel this lately. I'm sick of therapists and family trying to coax me into just taking action and starting to do stuff, as if that's going to create a miraculous upward spiral that I will ride to full recovery. I can't get people to understand that I have absolutely no drive or motivation towards anything in life, no goals, long term or even short term. I literally don't know how to live anymore, nothing interests me.

Sadly medication hasn't helped. Thinking of trying ECT next. Would you be willing to share more about your experience with that? It feels like my last hope, short of getting enrolled in a research trial to get an electrode implanted in my brain for deep brain stimulation.

I did try TMS as well. And ketamine. Both unsuccessful. Have you tried ketamine?

As for the physician assisted euthanasia, I'm not sure I have a strong opinion. I can see both sides. But given my own condition lately, I'm inclined to agree with you, westie. For the chronically, untreatably mentally ill, a peaceful death should be a right.

I really hope ECT can reboot me into a world of hope.

Ketamine worked short term some but then
stopped.

Some people have great results with ECT. The hospital I got it at was always bustling with patients doing it outpatient mostly. My mindset with ect was honesty that I was so suicidal I could care less if an ect treatment killed me. I was willing to risk anything including all the side effects. I think the most important goal with ect should be do the least amount of treatments you get benefit from. Problem with that is that there really isn't a "standard" number of treatments. I got frustrated with that. You may read an average course may be 6-12 treatments. That's not always what works. Lots of people did the acute series 6-12 and then did maintenance at different frequencies. From what I gathered in my observations, ideal would be do the 6-12 treatments, feel improvement, And get long lasting benefit. I'm told that happens more with unipolar depression. Unfortunately, I'm bipolar depression. It didn't happen that way for me. I did 21 treatments. After the first week of treatment, I experienced mania. Had to adjust meds. Hard to know if that mood improvement was actually just mania. I did feel relief of my suicidal thoughts. Once more antiManics were added, I didn't feel mood improvement anymore.

You don't feel pain during the treatment. You are knocked out and just go home and sleep for a few hours. I did experience some headaches, jaw pain, body aches, but they gave medications to help with some of that. I didn't start to have super concerning side effects until about treatment 16 or 17. That's where some memory issues started to come in and not just the "short term memory loss surrounding treatment". Yes you get general anesthesia so as with any procedure, you have short term memory issues from anesthesia (and the seizure too). This was greater than that but I only experienced it after a large number of treatments. If you do it, I would just suggest keeping the number of treatments to as few as possible. Track your side effects and keep track of cost/benefit. The costs outweighed the benefits at a certain point for me. Everyone who worked in the ect department from the psychiatrist, anesthesiologist, nurses, techs were all very nice and supportive. ECT was absolutely life changing for some people I'd talk to. I just don't think it's sustainable long term but if you get benefit from 6-12 treatments that would be amazing for you!

If I didn't answer any specific concerns with that I'm happy to give more details let me know!!

 

[Someone123]

Why do people get to treat mental illness like it can't be "end stage"? Like we think of for medical illnesses like for example cancer. When you've exhausted all canacer treatments, you get to be admitted to
Palliative care or hospice to be able to die comfortably. Why don't people with mental illness get to die comfortably? If I'm treatment resistant, as deemed by my doctor, isn't that sort of end stage bipolar disorder? Just like end stage cancer? Why do I have to die by gun?

In certain European countries they have psychiatric euthanasia for cases like this. Why not in the US? Show us some empathy, compassion, and humanity instead of letting us suffer!!

I empathize with you but the reason is because in end stage cancer the can see on mri's, etc. objective reasons it is a certain stage of cancer and with mental illness it is much tougher to determine when a person is really in end stage, there is no objective data a person can look at for this.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

I've been through many many combos before they found something that work when it's needed. But the trial by 'fire' had burnt me badly.

For the bipolar symptoms I used to 'have' which was antidepressant triggered, they trialled

Valproate
Quetiapine
Paliperidone
Stelazine
Bupropion alongside lamictal

Till they found haloperidol which helped calmed the agitation. But now I'm without it, I withdraw to cope but the endless rehearsal of the 101 ways to kill myself occupies my time in between work and rest.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. It takes a lot a lot of trial to find something that works and some of those combo they tried nearly killed me. They would have moved onto ECT at one point for me too but I pulled through with haloperidol and lamictal. They were willing to consider zyprexa despite the risk to my physical health as I'm at elevated risk for diabetes. Risperidone worked for my uncle till he gave up on being med compliant and he's now dead after drinking himself into multi-organ failure.

No. But I was sectioned for treatment.

I don't think they can force meds on you legally if just under a 72 mental health hold!! I'm so sorry that happened to you. I wish there was a way for you to report that nurse. I am embarrassed for her. So inappropriate to use that kind of threatening language to manipulate you into taking medications.

I empathize with you but the reason is because in end stage cancer the can see on mri's, etc. objective reasons it is a certain stage of cancer and with mental illness it is much tougher to determine when a person is really in end stage, there is no objective data a person can look at for this.

There would have to be a system for determining good candidates. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option

I had a nurse forced me to take psych meds inpatient even though that medication was causing visual impairment. When I refused, she said they could easily get an order for it to be administered in injection form.

And I actually don't really understand the rules of being sectioned. Here what I would think is the comparison is being put on a mental health hold? Where they can keep you for 72 hours for observation if you are deemed a danger to yourself or others. I think after that they can file to extend it. I'm not sure what the difference is when you say you were sectioned or if that means they can legally force meds and treatments?

 

[PDAnnie2610]

I don't think they can force meds on you legally if just under a 72 mental health hold!! I'm so sorry that happened to you. I wish there was a way for you to report that nurse. I am embarrassed for her. So inappropriate to use that kind of threatening language to manipulate you into taking medications.

There would have to be a system for determining good candidates. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option

And I actually don't really understand the rules of being sectioned. Here what I would think is the comparison is being put on a mental health hold? Where they can keep you for 72 hours for observation if you are deemed a danger to yourself or others. I think after that they can file to extend it. I'm not sure what the difference is when you say you were sectioned or if that means they can legally force meds and treatments?

In all honesty, they were less interested in respecting my rights.. than forcing stuff on me when I was already hurting. Nobody told me anything and I wasn't in my home country as I was overseas studying.

 

[Ashu]

WHEN?

Let it go, man. People come here for brotherhood and sisterhood, to escape the hate.

 

[YourNeighbor]

We should not attempt to form equivalencies between treatable mental health issues and terminal illnesses such as cancer.

Thank you. It is frustrating to see so much belittling and even fetishizing terminal illness on this site. I get that it often comes from a place of irrational thought, but one wishes it was not so widespread here. That said, I'm not necessarily opposed to MAiD being available in some non-terminal cases. Doubt it will happen anywhere in the US any time soon, though.

 

[t-rex]

@westie22 Thank you for your detailed response! I do have a few more questions.

Did you do unilateral or bilateral ECT? My understanding is that bilateral is more effective but causes more memory problems. So I'll probably start with unilateral and only go to bilateral if I'm not seeing relief.

What about adjusting the voltage (up)? That is another parameter to tweak, from what I've heard.

Just how bad were your memory problems? Did you lose longer-term biographical memories? Do the problems persist to this day?

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. :( That has to be disheartening after hearing of others success stories. I went through the same thing with ketamine, I would meet patients in the waiting room who it was working amazingly well for. It just didn't do the same for me.

I'm in the same place you were: ready to risk the side effects because I'm tired of being suicidal. They can give me the bilateral heavy stuff too, if that's what it takes. I desperately want this to be a success for me, but I have this terrible feeling that it won't be. My aunt had ECT years ago with success, only 6 treatments, no memory problems, and she never went back. Like you said, that is the ideal scenario. Her depression was not like mine and yours, though. She was not suicidal, far as I know. Just nearly catatonic. That is the kind of depression ECT seems to work so well for: people who have stopped eating, showering, or doing anything at all. That isn't really me, I'm just tortured by my thoughts. Shrug.

Sorry to side-track the topic of this thread. Wish me luck. I'm sending good vibes and warmth your way. I'm really sorry you're in such a hopeless place. Thanks again for the long reply. <3

 

[TheBestUsernameEver]

I just believe that there are some patients with psychiatric diagnosis that can't be helped. I do feel like one of them and when you're given a treatment resistant diagnosis and told by your long term psychiatrist and therapist (and having other opinions doesn't make a difference) that they have no more ideas for you, that seems like an appropriate moment in time to consider that your diagnosis is not treatable. So when you say we shouldn't compare that to a diagnosis like cancer, that's not fair to me. I also have already stated on here I've worked in healthcare. I've worked on palliative care and hospice units. I've seen how people with a medical diagnosis like cancer and others get to die being pumped with pain meds. I've thought while watching these people die, who is going to help make me comfortable when I die? No one. I'm going to die shooting mysef in the head not knowing what kind of pain I'm going to put myself through. Why don't I as a pysch patient get treated with the same decency that I've helped others suffering with? When you started your post saying mental illnesses are treatable so we shouldn't compare them to medical ones…that's not true for everyone. I'm happy that happened for you, but not all people recover from mental illness.

I don't believe it should be something granted to necessarily everyone. I realize sometimes people are going through difficult life situations that may be temporary and time may change their suicidal thoughts. I know for a fact, there was no specific situation that caused me to have chronic suicidal thoughts that I could work through like a break up or something. Figuring that out would be a tough process. There would be conflict into how it would have to be regulated. I don't have the answers to how that would be regulated best. I know they are doing it in a few European countries. Basically give a cocktail of meds and you fall asleep and die painless with no suffering.

I had treatment resistant depression (bipolar) too.
"Treatment resistance" merely recognises that you have been prescribed a certain number of different antidepressants that have not resulted in a marked improvement in your mood. Treatment resistance does not indicate whether you will recover in the future: it is not equivalent to a terminal diagnosis.

"I just believe that there are some patients with psychiatric diagnosis that can't be helped".

Whether you agree with this quote or not, no practical guidance can be drawn from this statement since nobody knows who will recover or who will not.
You do not know if you will begin to recover at some point.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

@westie22 Thank you for your detailed response! I do have a few more questions.

Did you do unilateral or bilateral ECT? My understanding is that bilateral is more effective but causes more memory problems. So I'll probably start with unilateral and only go to bilateral if I'm not seeing relief.

What about adjusting the voltage (up)? That is another parameter to tweak, from what I've heard.

Just how bad were your memory problems? Did you lose longer-term biographical memories? Do the problems persist to this day?

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. :( That has to be disheartening after hearing of others success stories. I went through the same thing with ketamine, I would meet patients in the waiting room who it was working amazingly well for. It just didn't do the same for me.

I'm in the same place you were: ready to risk the side effects because I'm tired of being suicidal. They can give me the bilateral heavy stuff too, if that's what it takes. I desperately want this to be a success for me, but I have this terrible feeling that it won't be. My aunt had ECT years ago with success, only 6 treatments, no memory problems, and she never went back. Like you said, that is the ideal scenario. Her depression was not like mine and yours, though. She was not suicidal, far as I know. Just nearly catatonic. That is the kind of depression ECT seems to work so well for: people who have stopped eating, showering, or doing anything at all. That isn't really me, I'm just tortured by my thoughts. Shrug.

Sorry to side-track the topic of this thread. Wish me luck. I'm sending good vibes and warmth your way. I'm really sorry you're in such a hopeless place. Thanks again for the long reply. <3

I did right unilateral treatments. I honestly wasn't made aware of the voltages. They pretty much just described it as they tweak the settings until you have a documented seizure. My case was probably more difficult as I'm told by my treatment team. There are more interactions with bipolar meds is what I was told. I was actually on an anti seizure medication while doing ect which to me sounded ridiculous. I was taking depakote as my mood stabilizer which is an anticonvulsant. Something like that may be a reason to tweak the settings as inducing a seizure while on an anticonvulsant probably varied.

The first thing I started to notice around treatment 17 I think, was not be able to remember names of things I should like people, places, bands, songs, random stuff that I 100 percent knew but couldn't recall. Like a coworker of 2 years name when I went back to work during my treatments when they were spaced out more. I obviously knew her name immediately before ect. Things like that. Also, difficulty word finding was huge. Unable to recall typical English words I wanted to say. I'd have to google a description of the word I wanted to say because it would frustrate me so much that I had to figure it out. What finally made me stop treatments at 21 was when I couldn't remember certain parts of my education and job. My job has always been a part of my identity and purpose. I felt like I was losing that. I've noticed other things people have to remind me of, but I would say not being able to do my job any more has felt crushing. I haven't done an ECT treatment in 4 months, and these memory problems still persist. I've been depressed since age 10, got straight A's all through school and college, have worked many years with depression so I don't believe people when they suggest depression could be causing my memory issues. I feel slow and dumb now. I do think though that's partially because I did a lot of treatments and also had a complicated case with my bipolar meds. Keep the treatments to a minimum and I think it's worth a shot.

No worries about getting side tracked. Im happy to share my experiences. If you think of anything else, feel free to ask at anytime. I think it's important to take in other peoples experiences but keep in mind ect could be a success for you! Definitely will wish that for you if you choose to take that path :)

 

[Sherri]

Im from Europe and yes we do have at least 3 countries that approve that, the states I think it's harder because of each state has its own laws, but in the states some approve the death penalty. Makes me wonder why not it has not been discussed there yet the euthanasia.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Im from Europe and yes we do have at least 3 countries that approve that, the states I think it's harder because of each state has its own laws, but in the states some approve the death penalty. Makes me wonder why not it has not been discussed there yet the euthanasia.

Yes I thought I've read stories Belgium and the Netherlands. I was actually just going to make the same comment about the death penalty in the United States. You don't make criminals suffer out their whole life sentence yet force the mentally ill to continue suffering. My life my body!

 

[Sherri]

Yes I thought I've read stories Belgium and the Netherlands. I was actually just going to make the same comment about the death penalty in the United States. You don't make criminals suffer out their whole life sentence yet force the mentally ill to continue suffering. My life my body!

Exactly there is no bigger punishment to someone who did awful criminal acts than the life without parole, not a go sleep Cinderella. But some even get life and after 20 years leave for good behaviour. Go wonder…

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

I had treatment resistant depression (bipolar) too.
"Treatment resistance" merely recognises that you have been prescribed a certain number of different antidepressants that have not resulted in a marked improvement in your mood. Treatment resistance does not indicate whether you will recover in the future: it is not equivalent to a terminal diagnosis.

"I just believe that there are some patients with psychiatric diagnosis that can't be helped".

Whether you agree with this quote or not, no practical guidance can be drawn from this statement since nobody knows who will recover or who will not.
You do not know if you will begin to recover at some point.

Regardless, you don't necessarily have to have a designation of terminal. That doesn't have to be deemed a requirement. My life my body. Why should anyone else but me get to determine the outcome of my life?

 

[PDAnnie2610]

In all honesty, they were less interested in respecting my rights.. than forcing stuff on me when I was already hurting. Nobody told me anything and I wasn't in my home country as I was overseas studying.

It was an extended hold for treatment. I was in the unit for 13 days.

 

[t-rex]

I did right unilateral treatments. I honestly wasn't made aware of the voltages. They pretty much just described it as they tweak the settings until you have a documented seizure. My case was probably more difficult as I'm told by my treatment team. There are more interactions with bipolar meds is what I was told. I was actually on an anti seizure medication while doing ect which to me sounded ridiculous. I was taking depakote as my mood stabilizer which is an anticonvulsant. Something like that may be a reason to tweak the settings as inducing a seizure while on an anticonvulsant probably varied.

The first thing I started to notice around treatment 17 I think, was not be able to remember names of things I should like people, places, bands, songs, random stuff that I 100 percent knew but couldn't recall. Like a coworker of 2 years name when I went back to work during my treatments when they were spaced out more. I obviously knew her name immediately before ect. Things like that. Also, difficulty word finding was huge. Unable to recall typical English words I wanted to say. I'd have to google a description of the word I wanted to say because it would frustrate me so much that I had to figure it out. What finally made me stop treatments at 21 was when I couldn't remember certain parts of my education and job. My job has always been a part of my identity and purpose. I felt like I was losing that. I've noticed other things people have to remind me of, but I would say not being able to do my job any more has felt crushing. I haven't done an ECT treatment in 4 months, and these memory problems still persist. I've been depressed since age 10, got straight A's all through school and college, have worked many years with depression so I don't believe people when they suggest depression could be causing my memory issues. I feel slow and dumb now. I do think though that's partially because I did a lot of treatments and also had a complicated case with my bipolar meds. Keep the treatments to a minimum and I think it's worth a shot.

No worries about getting side tracked. Im happy to share my experiences. If you think of anything else, feel free to ask at anytime. I think it's important to take in other peoples experiences but keep in mind ect could be a success for you! Definitely will wish that for you if you choose to take that path :)

Damn, that sounds awful. :( You seem surprisingly calm about it, and I'm impressed that you're still positive on ECT for other people (to at least try a little of) even though it didn't work out for you. That lends credibility to your story. (Not that I would disbelieve you.) A lot of people in your position would be pissed and would rail against ECT for anyone, ever.

The inability to find words would drive me mad, as, similar to you with your work, I invest a chunk of my identity in being articulate, well spoken. (I used to be a technical writer.) It's one of the few shreds of identity I have left, and to lose that could be devastating to me (i.e. make me more suicidal than ever).

So I'm having second thoughts now. I don't know. It's probably still worth it to try and avoid suicide.

Once again, thank you for your candor and your patience in explaining your experience to me.

 

[TheBestUsernameEver]

Regardless, you don't necessarily have to have a designation of terminal. That doesn't have to be deemed a requirement. My life my body. Why should anyone else but me get to determine the outcome of my life?

What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Damn, that sounds awful. :( You seem surprisingly calm about it, and I'm impressed that you're still positive on ECT for other people (to at least try a little of) even though it didn't work out for you. That lends credibility to your story. (Not that I would disbelieve you.) A lot of people in your position would be pissed and would rail against ECT for anyone, ever.

The inability to find words would drive me mad, as, similar to you with your work, I invest a chunk of my identity in being articulate, well spoken. (I used to be a technical writer.) It's one of the few shreds of identity I have left, and to lose that could be devastating to me (i.e. make me more suicidal than ever).

So I'm having second thoughts now. I don't know. It's probably still worth it to try and avoid suicide.

Once again, thank you for your candor and your patience in explaining your experience to me.

I think if I were someone who had mild depression and got serious side effects I may be more angry. And actually it's not true that I'm not angry. I don't blame the people in the ect department. I mostly blame my disease for putting me in this position. I had attempted to buy a gun right before ect (long story) but told my treatment team I would try ect first. When I think about being dead vs the side effects I have..I mean that's really what you have to weigh :(

On a positive note, if I had to say if anything is getting slightly better with time it is the difficulty word finding. I'm also on lithium right now and my treatment team thinks that may be making the issues with word finding from ect worse. So that may not be an issue for you.

I think overall I just know getting angry and blaming people is not going to help me right now. Not to say I haven't sat with those difficult feelings, and they still come up. I think someone got mad at me for saying this before but psych is not a completely sound science compared to other types of medicine. There are risks you have to assume with every treatment. I see the "extremely rare" complications daily at work from medical treatments and procedures so I'm probably a little immune in a weird way. Side effects and complications are a part of all health care :( I'm not trying to invalidate anyones experience..that doesn't make it right that people have to deal with them

What do you mean? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Well our conversation kind of got steered to the discussion of what is deemed to be terminal..I never was saying that terminal should be a requirement for psychiatric euthanasia. My question is just bringing up that in the end..it's my body so if I wanted to get psychiatric euthanasia why shouldn't I be allowed to make that choice as it's my life. No one can completely understand what it's like for another person to deal with mental illness. I mean I don't know where you live but in the us we have many states with different views/laws on different issues abortion, the death penalty, etc. why not assisted suicide?

 

[noaccount]

I'm not really sure why you are allowed to be part of it because you constantly break the rules, but that's not up to me.

Bite me.

I have kindly asked you to leave me alone. What don't you understand when someone asks you to leave them alone? You are adding nothing constructive but hate to this post.

Where? Can you show me an example?
Here's what actually happened:

The OP asked me for examples of people in the U.S. being forced into electroconvulsive shock.

I gave ten examples of this happening in six different states, including the most populous state in the union.

The OP reacted by throwing a complete shit fit, and badly misquoting and lying about my words in multiple threads.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Bite me.


Where? Can you show me an example?
Here's what actually happened:

The OP asked me for examples of people in the U.S. being forced into electroconvulsive shock.

I gave ten examples of this happening in six different states, including the most populous state in the union.

The OP reacted by throwing a complete shit fit, and badly misquoting and lying about my words in multiple threads.

Kindly from now on ignore each other. Further unwanted interactions will result in a warning being issued. Thank you for your understanding