“Protecting life” shouldn’t be an excuse to ban MAID

[Le temps perdu]

Why does society use things like GDP and productivity to measure people's "value" and allow various forms of social Darwinist thinking, yet when it comes to the MAID debate, it suddenly emphasizes the need to "protect" vulnerable people? Isn't that a double standard?

Voluntary access to MAID does not mean forcing people who believe life is beautiful to be euthanized against their will, nor does it prevent them from continuing to live meaningful lives. Whenever I see people defend narrow eligibility criteria for MAID by saying it is "to protect life," I find it confusing. Personally, I believe that "protecting life" should only refer to reducing or preventing factors that lead to the involuntary deprivation of someone's life.

For example:

1. If a country invests in researching an incurable disease and eventually finds a treatment

that is protecting life.

2. If a natural disaster occurs and rescue teams are sent to help people

that is protecting life.

3. Expanding healthcare coverage and improving mental health systems

that is protecting life.

However, protecting life does not mean taking away someone's autonomy. Many people who apply for MAID have already carefully considered their situation and whether they want to continue living. If someone has been suffering for a long time and has persistent suicidal thoughts, banning MAID may simply force them to continue suffering against their will rather than actually protecting their life, since this is not an involuntary loss of life.

 

[DeadnDusted]

Societies and economies need people to keep running, plus the belief that life should be protected is pretty much literal: protecting life itself without necessarily taking into consideration the individual behind it and their quality of life. That whole belief is almost always taken as an unquestioned premise bc if it's not then it would be admitting that life itself isn't a necessary thing in the universe and has no inherent objective value. Also If people were given the right for an easy death that would be disruptive to society and humanity as a whole in many ways. And people are afraid of that happening.

 

[ZwartHartje]

I feel the need to add: Making it illegal to murder other species, THAT would be protecting life!
Isn't it messed up that you can actually join some hunting club and get a license to commit mass murder, completely legally, but you're not allowed to end your own life?!
I think it's just massively, monstrously f***ed up!

 

[bl33ding_heart]

It's so unfair how people can't just simply let those that wish to no longer be here go. People are uncomfortable with the idea of us being able to choose to die. I do think normalising and allowing assisted suicide is definitely a very slippery slope. But it's just cruel to force those who have no hopes of a better life to remain and continue to suffer.

 

[ZwartHartje]

It's so unfair how people can't just simply let those that wish to no longer be here go. People are uncomfortable with the idea of us being able to choose to die. I do think normalising and allowing assisted suicide is definitely a very slippery slope. But it's just cruel to force those who have no hopes of a better life to remain and continue to suffer.

Right, it wouldn't need to be assisted - I can understand that when there's another person involved (or more than one) that there ought to be some rather strict protocol in order to protect those people who assist, since they're basically killing someone and that's not something to be done lightly.
But doing it ourselves is a whole different matter, when there's no one else involved then in should be our sovereign decision and the means for it should be accessible.
Much like you can buy condoms and birth control, it's a personal thing what you do with those. And the craziest thing is, you can choose not to buy them and to just have a baby no matter what your circumstances, even as a homeless drug addict or whatever, and no one will stop you! When there are already way, way too many humans on Earth and many of them living in horrible circumstances. Still you're always free to add more humans, no questions asked - but choosing your own departure from this world is taboo and unspeakable. I think that's kind of an absurd situation.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

Right, it wouldn't need to be assisted - I can understand that when there's another person involved (or more than one) that there ought to be some rather strict protocol in order to protect those people who assist, since they're basically killing someone and that's not something to be done lightly.
But doing it ourselves is a whole different matter, when there's no one else involved then in should be our sovereign decision and the means for it should be accessible.
Much like you can buy condoms and birth control, it's a personal thing what you do with those. And the craziest thing is, you can choose not to buy them and to just have a baby no matter what your circumstances, even as a homeless drug addict or whatever, and no one will stop you! When there are already way, way too many humans on Earth and many of them living in horrible circumstances. Still you're always free to add more humans, no questions asked - but choosing your own departure from this world is taboo and unspeakable. I think that's kind of an absurd situation.

Allowing substances like n or sn to be easily accessible is very dangerous, people could use them for sadistic purposes.

 

[ZwartHartje]

Allowing substances like n or sn to be easily accessible is very dangerous, people could use them for sadistic purposes.

You can use a lot for sadistic purposes. If you'd really want to kill or torture someone else, a hardware store is like a candy shop for sadists. Drills, chainsaws, other power tools, sledge hammers... I think to a truly sadistic, killer-type person any of these would be way more interesting than toxic substances.

 

[ScarletTanager]

You can use a lot for sadistic purposes. If you'd really want to kill or torture someone else, a hardware store is like a candy shop for sadists. Drills, chainsaws, other power tools, sledge hammers... I think to a truly sadistic, killer-type person any of these would be way more interesting than toxic substances.

Yes there's eye drop killers out there.

 

[ZwartHartje]

Yes there's eye drop killers out there.

Eye drop killers, what's that?

 

[bl33ding_heart]

You can use a lot for sadistic purposes. If you'd really want to kill or torture someone else, a hardware store is like a candy shop for sadists. Drills, chainsaws, other power tools, sledge hammers... I think to a truly sadistic, killer-type person any of these would be way more interesting than toxic substances.

True but majority of people that have the desire to kill wouldn't wanna be caught of course and using something like n or sn to poison someone would be a lot less obvious then torturing them with weapons.

 

[jaysthreecents]

Allowing substances like n or sn to be easily accessible is very dangerous, people could use them for sadistic purposes.

I suspect that you would have to enter a clinic to administer the dose to yourself, in order to control the environment enough to prevent abuse. Then it's also easy for them to organize transportation for your body, assuming you effectively already did the traveling for them.

It wouldn't be ideal for comfort, but at least it would be accessible while still having some barriers to prevent misconduct. I think the biggest issue comes from invalidating someone's decision to CTB. It is unethical to discredit someone based on age, or perceived competence. If the concern is people dying when they shouldn't be, maybe we should focus on the 1000s of steps BEFORE that moment instead of the final step that is, for many people, the only way forward.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

I suspect that you would have to enter a clinic to administer the dose to yourself, in order to control the environment enough to prevent abuse. Then it's also easy for them to organize transportation for your body, assuming you effectively already did the traveling for them.

It wouldn't be ideal for comfort, but at least it would be accessible while still having some barriers to prevent misconduct. I think the biggest issue comes from invalidating someone's decision to CTB. It is unethical to discredit someone based on age, or perceived competence. If the concern is people dying when they shouldn't be, maybe we should focus on the 1000s of steps BEFORE that moment instead of the final step that is, for many people, the only way forward.

I was implying people using them to kill people, if they were just something anyone could purchase.

 

[bipolar22]

MAID. yes comes down to money as usual. Germany there is no MAID. Still performing operations on my 100 year old grandma who cant even sleep lying down anymore of pain nor recognize her own children. cuz there's much money in these operations to be made. Other country with broken infrastructure like Canada find it cheaper to just dispose of the person. Doesnt matter. They own the coutry and the land and everything on it include us. So who gives a fuck what narcissistic excuses the comcuct while running the show. Just to distract us with bullshit as usual

 

[Le temps perdu]

MAID. yes comes down to money as usual. Germany there is no MAID. Still performing operations on my 100 year old grandma who cant even sleep lying down anymore of pain nor recognize her own children. cuz there's much money in these operations to be made. Other country with broken infrastructure like Canada find it cheaper to just dispose of the person. Doesnt matter. They own the coutry and the land and everything on it include us. So who gives a fuck what narcissistic excuses the comcuct while running the show. Just to distract us with bullshit as usual

I'm really sorry your grandma had to go through all that.