Postponed. Try to stop spazzing.

[ctbUniquectb]

I just went through this whole thread and I gotta say that plot twist through me for a loop lol

For me, to live is Troll, to die is gain.

 

[Defenestrator]

I just went through this whole thread and I gotta say that plot twist through me for a loop lol

But in reference to medicine and anti-depressants, I've been on my fair share and I also agree that personally, it seems to work for me for a couple of months and then my body kicks up the tolerance boost and then they stop out of nowhere.. usually leading to mania and more often than not trips to the ward.
Bc in my experience doctors like to think that once they have got you to agree to the "little league meds" they decide to start telling you how they don't think the meds "are doing their job any longer" and want to switch up and most of the time it's like a pill roulette, and once they get comfy they decide to start throwing like 2-3 scripts at you at a time... all bc they get paid for every script they write.. and the more they give you and the stronger they are, every time they switch em on you they have a whole list of W/D symptoms // Side effects to scare you into taking *insert medicine name here* Big Pharma is just a business like anything else.
Think of Docs as used car salesman or TV Preachers next time they start throwing all these big names symptoms and "gut feelings illnesses" your way, at the very least take time and always do your research. :)

This is my fear, I know exactly how the pharmaceutical industry operates and I really don't want to become another statistic in their monopoly of "happy" pills. Being hospitalised is actually a big fear of mine too, and I think that if I keep resisting the tablets it may get to that point. I have considered conceding to getting them and then just not taking them... Then a part of my mind is like "hang on, how do you know it won't work? It's got to be better than this shit your in now and you are going to die anyway, so what's to lose?"

 

[veren4h92l]

This is my fear, I know exactly how the pharmaceutical industry operates and I really don't want to become another statistic in their monopoly of "happy" pills. Being hospitalised is actually a big fear of mine too, and I think that if I keep resisting the tablets it may get to that point. I have considered conceding to getting them and then just not taking them... Then a part of my mind is like "hang on, how do you know it won't work? It's got to be better than this shit your in now and you are going to die anyway, so what's to lose?"

You're right at your first line.
The other part is just how mindfucked you are because of having a hard time, but it is ok to give in and have your thoughts, naturally considering ctb as well. Nobody should blame you for this, actually you're very bold.
You're vulnerable in this situation and that's why them coercing you into psych drugs is a high risk for you! You already started believing bullshit you never did before. You don't sound like an ignorant either.
May I put the question then:
Why make it worse by psych drugs if you're going to die anyway?

Unless you're the type for drugs and dependance, you're going to lose a lot, perhaps making ctb impossible in the end, becoming an emotionally and mentally disabled.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

For me antidepressants are pointless. If I had physical pain they won't solveanything. I don't serany point in taking them.

 

[Flippy]

I don't think they do much for me either. If they have a perceivable effect at all its usual that they make me worse. Last time I was really unwell I thought that they were giving me some kind of fake pills to test if I was really taking them. :-0

 

[Quarky00]

Being hospitalised is actually a big fear of mine too, and I think that if I keep resisting the tablets it may get to that point. I have considered conceding to getting them and then just not taking them

You won't get hospitalized unless psychotic , delusional , or aggressive .
May share some general suicidality but never a plan or seriousness .
Otherwise you're good - nobody wants you there ;) (Need the beds!!)

You may try therapy to help cope or vent. If so, actively seek it, as it won't be given.

Not taking is common and can be used if fearful, but won't change a thing. But you do have that option, many people do so, so feel safe:)

You are reacting to psychiatrist pressure, but can use it to leverage yourself. Overall you have full freedom, good thing.

You have support here. If you feel you cannot handle pills, members will encourage you on bad days (I hope), tell you when it's normal and when it's too much, when to consider changing meds etc (despite the general antagonism).

 

[Defenestrator]

I don't think they do much for me either. If they have a perceivable effect at all its usual that they make me worse. Last time I was really unwell I thought that they were giving me some kind of fake pills to test if I was really taking them. :-0

Like a placebo? I actually got a little paranoid with the psychiatrist earlier too - a couple of times she laughed and I wondered if she did that to see my reaction. I don't think that's paranoid though, I do think they do these things to see how people react as it would likely make their jobs easier.

 

[Flippy]

Like a placebo? I actually got a little paranoid with the psychiatrist earlier too - a couple of times she laughed and I wondered if she did that to see my reaction. I don't think that's paranoid though, I do think they do these things to see how people react as it would likely make their jobs easier.

Yes! Exactly! I guess paranoia comes with the territory. Particularly when you are sharing some pretty difficult personal things with a psychiatrist. I've sometimes wondered when people laugh at something I say, that I didn't intend as funny, if I am loosing my sense of humour!

 

[clandestine]

hyperserotonemia is found in quite a lot of autistic children.

The idea that serotonin is the "happy hormone" is bunk. Serotonin is implicated in fibrosis, vascular problems, hypertension, torpor (< this is why a lot of people report feeling like a zombie on SSRIs) and a host of other health problems. Tryptophan is the only amino acid that's been found to be carcinogenic to my knowledge.

SSRIs have a wider action than simply inhibiting reuptake of serotonin, they can increase brain levels of allopregnenalone, which is why I think some people report feeling better on them

 

[Defenestrator]

hyperserotonemia is found in quite a lot of autistic children.

The idea that serotonin is the "happy hormone" is bunk. Serotonin is implicated in fibrosis, vascular problems, hypertension, torpor (< this is why a lot of people report feeling like a zombie on SSRIs) and a host of other health problems. Tryptophan is the only amino acid that's been found to be carcinogenic to my knowledge.

SSRIs have a wider action than simply inhibiting reuptake of serotonin, they can increase brain levels of allopregnenalone, which is why I think some people report feeling better on them

Hyperserotonemia - does that mean taking an SSRI as someone on the spectrum means you are more at risk of developing serotonin syndrome?
I see there are links between SSRIs taken during pregnancy and a higher incidence of children born with autism. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[Flippy]

hyperserotonemia is found in quite a lot of autistic children.

The idea that serotonin is the "happy hormone" is bunk. Serotonin is implicated in fibrosis, vascular problems, hypertension, torpor (< this is why a lot of people report feeling like a zombie on SSRIs) and a host of other health problems. Tryptophan is the only amino acid that's been found to be carcinogenic to my knowledge.

SSRIs have a wider action than simply inhibiting reuptake of serotonin, they can increase brain levels of allopregnenalone, which is why I think some people report feeling better on them

You may very well be right. My view is that if they help then fine. I really don't think they help me at all personally but I take them. I have fairly regular blood tests and due to my paranoia (see my earlier post) I take them as I worry that people will think I'm going off my meds if they don't detect them in my blood sample.

 

[deflagrat]

Well, I am taking two antidepressants and I totally forgot about suicide. They do work for me. In fact, one of them is making me sleep really well. Before, I was thinking about killing myself all the time, nowadays I am thinking about living until my brain seriously starts to break when I am older (as long as I keep my disability benefits). So, there's that.

 

[Flippy]

Well, I am taking two antidepressants and I totally forgot about suicide. They do work for me. In fact, one of them is making me sleep really well. Before, I was thinking about killing myself all the time, nowadays I am thinking about living until my brain seriously starts to break when I am older (as long as I keep my disability benefits). So, there's that.

Would you be comfortable sharing what anti depressants you are taking? I'm kinda crossing my fingers they are things I haven't tried yet, so there's maybe hope yet that something will work!

 

[Defenestrator]

It seems to be a kind of lottery, not just based on the antidepressants themselves but dependent on how our bodies react to them too.

 

[Sensei]

Well, I am taking two antidepressants and I totally forgot about suicide. They do work for me. In fact, one of them is making me sleep really well. Before, I was thinking about killing myself all the time, nowadays I am thinking about living until my brain seriously starts to break when I am older (as long as I keep my disability benefits). So, there's that.

Good for you! Antidepressants are no wonder drugs, they certainly don't work for everyone, and they can even be harmful to some people, but they do help many people struggling with depression. They served me well for eight years, for what it's worth. Antidepressants are not to be taken lightly, but they are not to be categorically dismissed either.

 

[clandestine]

Hyperserotonemia - does that mean taking an SSRI as someone on the spectrum means you are more at risk of developing serotonin syndrome?

Hyperserotonemia is high serum (blood) levels of serotonin. I don't think everyone on the spectrum is hyperserotonemic but there's a well known correlation that in a lot of (not all) autistic children, high serotonin levels are found.

I don't think someone on the spectrum would necessarily be at more risk of developing SS but it's something to consider. It's not as straight forward as just serum levels as there are levels of serotonin in the brain and gut aswell (which is hard to measure esp in humans), and problems with transport of serotonin and the genes encoding said transport. It's a complicated issue which I don't claim to have a complete knowledge on - but neither do the experts.
You might find this study interesting though https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0243-3

My points here are not to persuade or dissuade you from anything, it's simply to inform you of both sides so you can make the right decisions for yourself.

You may very well be right. My view is that if they help then fine. I really don't think they help me at all personally but I take them. I have fairly regular blood tests and due to my paranoia (see my earlier post) I take them as I worry that people will think I'm going off my meds if they don't detect them in my blood sample.

Oh for sure (: I don't mean to tell anyone what to do or take, I'm just passing on the knowledge I learnt through my own research when deciding whether to try SSRIs. Some people do see improvement but it's also dependent on the class of drug they take (not all antidepressants are SSRIs) and as I mentioned in my earlier post, the complete mechanism and action of a drug. Some drugs can have some beneficial effects in some areas even if they're having bad ones elsewhere.

 

[deflagrat]

Would you be comfortable sharing what anti depressants you are taking? I'm kinda crossing my fingers they are things I haven't tried yet, so there's maybe hope yet that something will work!

20 mg Escitalopram and 75 mg amitriptyline. As you can imagine the latter was supposed to be a suicide method, but it ended up helping me with depression and it fixed my sleeping problems for good.

 

[Defenestrator]

Hyperserotonemia is high serum (blood) levels of serotonin. I don't think everyone on the spectrum is hyperserotonemic but there's a well known correlation that in a lot of (not all) autistic children, high serotonin levels are found.

I don't think someone on the spectrum would necessarily be at more risk of developing SS but it's something to consider. It's not as straight forward as just serum levels as there are levels of serotonin in the brain and gut aswell (which is hard to measure esp in humans), and problems with transport of serotonin and the genes encoding said transport. It's a complicated issue which I don't claim to have a complete knowledge on - but neither do the experts.
You might find this study interesting though https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0243-3

My points here are not to persuade or dissuade you from anything, it's simply to inform you of both sides so you can make the right decisions for yourself.



Oh for sure (: I don't mean to tell anyone what to do or take, I'm just passing on the knowledge I learnt through my own research when deciding whether to try SSRIs. Some people do see improvement but it's also dependent on the class of drug they take (not all antidepressants are SSRIs) and as I mentioned in my earlier post, the complete mechanism and action of a drug. Some drugs can have some beneficial effects in some areas even if they're having bad ones elsewhere.

Thanks for the link.

20 mg Escitalopram and 75 mg amitriptyline. As you can imagine the latter was supposed to be a suicide method, but it ended up helping me with depression and it fixed my sleeping problems for good.

That's interesting - they're really reluctant to offer anything that isn't an SSRI in the first incidence though, unfortunately. That may be useful for people who've tried other things already though.

 

[Flippy]

20 mg Escitalopram and 75 mg amitriptyline. As you can imagine the latter was supposed to be a suicide method, but it ended up helping me with depression and it fixed my sleeping problems for good.

Thanks for sharing! I've had ecitalopram before, it was waaaaaay better for me than Prozac but didn't help my mood a great deal. It was kinda like I was in 'safe mode'. I wasn't getting better but I was functional to a degree. When I was first given quetiapine I really got a perspective on how unwell I really was. I've not had Amitriptyline, I don't know if psych docs tend to prescribe it here in the UK. Indeed I have seen it mentioned in various posts around here. Is it something you are prescribed or is it something you obtain yourself?
I've just looked up Amitriptyline on the NHS website and it says it's not recommended for people who have thoughts of harming themselves or suicide. Which probably explains why my psychiatrist hasn't suggested it. I am quite curious as to whether it would work for me. My quetiapine causes a massive dip in my mood and increased suicidal thoughts about an hour after taking it which gradually calms down.

 

[Defenestrator]

Just found out that it's possible to apply for euthanasia in Europe if you're on the AS.

Three Belgian doctors are investigated over euthanasia of woman with Asperger’s

Three Belgian doctors may face trial for the unlawful killing of a woman with autism, after her family claimed that she underwent euthanasia improperly. The doctors from East Flanders are being investigated on suspicion of having “poisoned” 38 year old Tine Nys in 2010. It is the first time a...

www.bmj.com

So, if you're autistic it's considered a severe enough disability to be euthanised.
@ctbUniquectb

Euthanasia for autism?

The trial in Belgium over the killing of an autistic woman could have international repercussions

world.wng.org

Europe's top rights court to hear Belgian euthanasia case

LONDON (AP) — Europe's top human rights court has agreed to hear a case being brought against Belgium by a man whose mother was euthanized in 2012 for depression, the second case that implicates one of Belgium's leading euthanasia doctors.

apnews.com

 

[ctbUniquectb]

Just found out that it's possible to apply for euthanasia in Europe if you're on the AS.

Three Belgian doctors are investigated over euthanasia of woman with Asperger’s

Three Belgian doctors may face trial for the unlawful killing of a woman with autism, after her family claimed that she underwent euthanasia improperly. The doctors from East Flanders are being investigated on suspicion of having “poisoned” 38 year old Tine Nys in 2010. It is the first time a...

www.bmj.com

So, if you're autistic it's considered a severe enough disability to be euthanised.
@ctbUniquectb

Euthanasia for autism?

The trial in Belgium over the killing of an autistic woman could have international repercussions

world.wng.org

Europe's top rights court to hear Belgian euthanasia case

LONDON (AP) — Europe's top human rights court has agreed to hear a case being brought against Belgium by a man whose mother was euthanized in 2012 for depression, the second case that implicates one of Belgium's leading euthanasia doctors.

apnews.com

nice, sincerely thanks. and I'm glad for Euros

me? just bought my 2m2b and an running out to do up my living will

 

[Flippy]

Just found out that it's possible to apply for euthanasia in Europe if you're on the AS.

Three Belgian doctors are investigated over euthanasia of woman with Asperger’s

Three Belgian doctors may face trial for the unlawful killing of a woman with autism, after her family claimed that she underwent euthanasia improperly. The doctors from East Flanders are being investigated on suspicion of having “poisoned” 38 year old Tine Nys in 2010. It is the first time a...

www.bmj.com

So, if you're autistic it's considered a severe enough disability to be euthanised.
@ctbUniquectb

Euthanasia for autism?

The trial in Belgium over the killing of an autistic woman could have international repercussions

world.wng.org

Europe's top rights court to hear Belgian euthanasia case

LONDON (AP) — Europe's top human rights court has agreed to hear a case being brought against Belgium by a man whose mother was euthanized in 2012 for depression, the second case that implicates one of Belgium's leading euthanasia doctors.

apnews.com

I hope that you won't be considering this yourself. For one thing your diagnosis may be wrong. You may just be extremely introverted in social situations. You mentioned that the problem seems to be interacting with other women. There's every possibility that they may be intimidated by you, maybe due to your abilities or talents. You might just be more attractive than they are so they close ranks to exclude you. Basically bullying. They make it so you can't win to make themselves feel superior.

 

[Quarky00]

That's interesting - they're really reluctant to offer anything that isn't an SSRI in the first incidence though

There's a stupid protocol based on condition and % helped. SSRI -> SNRI -> TCAs -> Antipsychotics.

It's purely statistics... Say SSRI helped 65% patients and SNRIs helped 55% -- they'll try SSRI first.

That's just a rough outlook of how it works. If you have trouble sleeping then med X (helped 34%) better than med Y (helped 20%) etc; if side effects then add-on med A for anxiety or B for whatever; if not improved turn to the next med in the list. Not much more to it, unfortunately.

 

[Flippy]

There's a stupid protocol based on condition and % helped. SSRI -> SNRI -> TCAs -> Antipsychotics.

It's purely statistics... Say SSRI helped 65% patients and SNRIs helped 55% -- they'll try SSRI first.

That's just a rough outlook of how it works. If you have trouble sleeping then med X (helped 34%) better than med Y (helped 20%) etc; if side effects then add-on med A for anxiety or B for whatever; if not improved turn to the next med in the list. Not much more to it, unfortunately.

So it would seem that it's just a numbers game! Pretty much right on the money to describe it as a lottery!
I wonder if that's why I've been told in a fairly direct way that I just need to fix myself. Like they say to themselves 65% of people get better on these meds so this patient just needs to stop being awkward and get better!?

 

[ctbUniquectb]

There's a stupid protocol based on condition and % helped. SSRI -> SNRI -> TCAs -> Antipsychotics.

It's purely statistics... Say SSRI helped 65% patients and SNRIs helped 55% -- they'll try SSRI first.

That's just a rough outlook of how it works. If you have trouble sleeping then med X (helped 34%) better than med Y (helped 20%) etc; if side effects then add-on med A for anxiety or B for whatever; if not improved turn to the next med in the list. Not much more to it, unfortunately.

yeah there's a not hard to find chart about augmentation and shit like that

fact of the matter is that "physiological" depression is pretty understood and treatable, if the patient does their part. on the other hand, quality of life being zero isn't fixable, no matter how hard anyone tries

 

[Flippy]

yeah there's a not hard to find chart about augmentation and shit like that

fact of the matter is that "physiological" depression is pretty understood and treatable, if the patient does their part. on the other hand, quality of life being zero isn't fixable, no matter how hard anyone tries

I follow all the advice I'm given take my meds. Maybe I get better for a bit then out of nowhere I start getting distressing memories, mainly from my childhood and it's like I'm reliving it over again. I try to distract myself do mindfulness exercises etc. It just seems to have to run its course. Then the cycle begins again. Then I'm in front of a psychiatrist dropping to pieces and basically get told to straighten up and fly right. I'm pretty sure what I have qualifies as PTSD. I just thought I could wish all the crap away if I tried hard enough, but it never works. The worst thing is that it always seems to knock me for six right when I get hopeful I'm feeling better. It absolutely sucks!

 

[Quarky00]

to describe it as a lottery

Ouh, don't disparage of the science of psychiatry .


It's an educated lottery ;)

 

[Flippy]

Ouh, don't disparage of the science of psychiatry .


It's an educated lottery ;)

Sounds good! I will buy a ticket! Maybe I will become a millionaire! Oh wait it's not that kind of lottery is it? :-( damnit I'm so cynical any way I don't even play the regular lottery. Lol!

 

[Quarky00]

people get better on these meds so this patient just needs to stop being awkward

Yep, the irony of the "biomedical view". If there's a pill for that and you're not getting better, you're doing something wrong.


Dozens of research papers – psychiatrists themselves! – point to that problem...

Neuroscientific explanations hold promise as ways to destigmatize mental health problems, representing them as biomedical illnesses rather than personal weaknesses, but that perception of them by professionals as well – seems to have the opposite effect.

Neuroscientific explanations and the stigma of mental disorder [2018]

 

[Defenestrator]

I hope that you won't be considering this yourself. For one thing your diagnosis may be wrong. You may just be extremely introverted in social situations. You mentioned that the problem seems to be interacting with other women. There's every possibility that they may be intimidated by you, maybe due to your abilities or talents. You might just be more attractive than they are so they close ranks to exclude you. Basically bullying. They make it so you can't win to make themselves feel superior.

Thanks, I'm not necessarily considering it for myself at this moment in time, you're right about the diagnosis and I've actually spoken to a nurse since the assessment about it and that I don't think they can make a definitive diagnosis after one person (no matter how well trained) spoke to me for just over an hour.

You're not the only person to suggest those reasons for why, in particular, other women dislike me so much. It is a possibility, I just am unable to cope with their outbursts or read cues if I'm annoying them so when they do explode it comes as a complete shock to me - the most recent case was a woman who is in an extended social circle who I've never really spoken to but we do group work together and she just went pretty crazy at me out of the blue. It's confusing because I've never actually spoken to her one-to-one before but I've somehow really pissed her off just by existing.

Sorry for the waffling, I just don't get these things sometimes... it's exhausting.

Yep, the irony of the "biomedical view". If there's a pill for that and you're not getting better, you're doing something wrong.


Dozens of research papers – psychiatrists themselves! – point to that problem...

Neuroscientific explanations and the stigma of mental disorder [2018]

The idea is they give you the medicine (ADs etc.) to deal with the short term issues and you're supposed to receive some other kind of behavioral/talking therapy to give you the tools to function without the medication. The issue I have with this system, personally, is how can you give someone a crutch (antidepressant) at the same time as this therapy and then when things go "well", you remove the crutch and wonder why the therapy "skills" are not working? I don't get why they don't try to get people to taper their medication whilst getting therapy. Maybe they do this in other countries? but here in the UK they seem to just want to get you out of the door as quickly as possible, with the least amount of interaction.