Discussion Please don’t let our forum die

[Forever Sleep]

You know the expression 'if you can't beat them join them'?

I know I will never 'beat' FC by opposing her views. So I decided to, so to speak, get inside her head. It is her sincere belief that the forum is overrun with prolife trolls bullying the 'truly' suicidal. Every one of her posts 'others' all who find anything good in life or ever have. It essentially proclaims the entire population of the planet as delusional, ie, wrong. And unfortunately this viewpoint is having an increasingly divisive effect on the forum, because there is a huge multiplicity of reasons that bring people here. Not all of them can subscribe to what she proposes. If she could accept it is NOT the consensus (and even if it was should not be a condition of entry to the forum) well, that would be great and the most desirable outcome. However. Name calling, labelling and ostracising language in her own posts aimed at other members is simply not acceptable behaviour and against the rules of most forums including this one.

How invalidating is it for long time, established and valued members of the forum to be constantly stigmatised as 'bullies', 'prolife', 'shouldn't be here', 'trolling the genuinely suicidal', arrogant, should go and be 'happy' 'haven't we got better things to do', spiteful, bitter, malicious…the slurs go on and on and new ones seem to be added to the list each day…

See Forever Sleep. This genuinely isn't all about me. This is very far from FC versus Freedompass. I am seeing a lot of my favourite users being called a lot of these names daily. Not only is it unpleasant, inflammatory and irksome. It is creating functional problems for the whole site as the FC 'camp' tries to fight off an 'enemy invader' that frankly doesn't exist.

No one here is her enemy. No one means her harm. But if 100 likes and hugs for every one of her posts still leaves her unhappy, dissatisfied and angry that not everyone has 'joined', how will 1000 do? 2000? What will satisfy or convince her that she is not under attack from anyone?

Maybe just maybe you can begin to see why I decided to 'join' her if only imaginatively. I decided to accept her perspective as real and that the forum really was under attack from trolls.

Look at it from our perspective. Imagine you are constantly being stigmatised and 'othered' as a troll etc when you know very well you are not one. How will that make you feel. Here on a forum where you hoped for acceptance.

I know this is turning into a dissertation but i believe this conflict can only be resolved by a respectful, impartial and yes, objective assessment of what is actually happening. At this point 'opinions' and 'diverse viewpoints' aren't really what we need. A close perusal of forum rules and scanning of 'problem' threads should be sufficient to identify what needs to be done. However. Simply bringing the matter to the table as a topic for open discussion is all we've got for now.

Then again. What else do we ever have. Forums like these are all about what is said, not said, and reading between the lines.

As I've been at pains to explain in this thread. I am most definitely NOT harassing FC, confronting her or trying to engage her in a discussion.

'Just walking away' ie turning a blind eye to what is happening, sticking our fingers in our ears and singing la la la is not the answer either.

I am simply appealing for a calm appraisal of the community and group dynamics that have created this situation. There is no need for shouting and raised voices. FC doesn't even need to be part of it and I doubt she will.

Yeah, I do see what you mean. I hope there is a way forward through all this.

 

[Mofreeko]

It does make me roll my eyes when I see some users make absolutely no progress in trying to end their own lives and then make post after post on how bleak and miserable being alive is and anyone who actually likes being alive is insane. However I've found those posts to be easily ignored. Same with any other drama on here really. Say what you want about this forum but it's better than sites like reddit where almost every subreddit is an overly moderated hell scape of purged users and deleted messages.

 

[theboy]

What is ACH?

 

[freedompass]

I hear ya but 'better than Reddit' is not necessarily what we should be aiming for imho. And what is ignoring? Turning your back on a problem, passing the buck, shifting the responsibility to someone else to sort it out? Imho widespread use of the ignore button is part of the problem and why it continues to escalate.

What is ACH?

Alternative Suicide Holiday, the original pro choice internet discussion board that had its heyday in the noughties

 

[FuneralCry]

Oh great, those people are still doing this. But the funny thing is, that whatever drivel this thread is about is probably the biggest problem in the OP's life, they are so bored to the point that they are still ranting about suffering people for no reason. It's tragic really and pathetic. I literally made valid points in my posts and some people liked them, get over it. No the suffering that people go through is not your entertainment and some people have real problems but of course you will never be able to understand that.

And yes, people can roll their eyes all they want at the fact that others are not dead yet, and act all arrogant, but I bet that everything is fine for them with their suicide all planned out but the reality is that not everyone is as privileged as those people, some people actually struggle to die and only really ignorant people don't understand this.
But I hope you all have a great life, good luck with making more nonsense posts that will just poison this site even further, bye bye.

 

[Mr_House]

Well I guess you won, freedompass

Now off to the ranch with ye!​

 

[freedompass]

The perfect Xmas Gif!



Guys! There's a week till Xmas. Is it not a lovely thought that we can share some peace and goodwill to…them…in a newly calm if not exactly festive SS?

It's enough to bring a tear to ya 👁

Come and share the lurve!

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

Right now I feel genuinely worried and sad.
Anyone remember what happened to ASH?
That was troll rule
Was it supportive to suicidal people?
No it wasn't
There are so many of us feeling and saying the same things on many different threads.
But the troll element has been gifted special status against which we are powerless
I have seen a deaf ear being turned to all 'dissenters' by those 'in power'
It's not good news for the forum
Perhaps their own death wish will be visited on the forum itself
And we will have to watch SaSu die a slow, gruelling, torturous death
Anyone who thinks I'm overdramatising
Been around a long time
Call it gut instinct

For what it's worth.

I'll miss you dear SaSu

What is troll rule. Sorry I don't get the true meaning or context.

 

[Mr_House]

What is troll rule. Sorry I don't get the true meaning or context.

I guess he/she means trolls ruled ASH before it died, it was troll rule = Ruled by trolls (I think)

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

I guess he/she means trolls ruled ASH before it died, it was troll rule = Ruled by trolls (I think)

Thanks but what is ASH.

 

[👁️👃👁️]

Gosh I just read my OP on this thread and am surprised (and grateful) I didn't get banned on the spot.

Thank you Rain!

I don't even see the original post, unless you're talking about the one on this thread, in which I don't see you doing anything to hurt anyone. Fuck what anyone says.

Thanks but what is ASH.

Alt.suicide.holiday

 

[freedompass]

I don't even see the original post, unless you're talking about the one on this thread, in which I don't see you doing anything to hurt anyone. Fuck what anyone says.

Alt.suicide.holiday

I appreciate the support!

And yes. Words can be weapons and should be used judiciously especially on a suicide forum where they could quite literally mean the difference between life and death.

Context is everything and there is quite the back story to this thread and that short interaction. This is where the power of discernment cannot really be overestimated.

As I said before. It's not like I arrived on this forum yesterday. I've got over 700 posts literally demonstrating what kind of person I am. Yet on the basis of what? A clickbaity title? I'm suddenly a troll.

I'm pointing this out as what dr Phil would call a 'teaching tool' not because I'm taking the bait or seeking an apology. Call me what you like!

Just don't ban me.

 

[thankyouforthis]

I couldn't agree more. No suicidal person needs that. It's making the forum an unpleasant, fractured and unwelcoming place to be. Fixthe26ers would be rubbing their hands with glee to see us all turning on each other. They went all out to take us down and here we are doing their work for them.

He's, hers and theys…don't give them the satisfaction! We need to be the bigger people here (is that hard?). SHOW them that if they're looking for a demon to scapegoat…it ain't us. We do more for suicidal people every single day than they will ever do with their simple minded campaigns. Let them keep scoring their own goals.

People of SaSu. It's time to RISE!

The way I see it. This shouldn't all be on the mods. Not only are they only human. They are also suicidal! I know first hand the pressure they are under and it's only getting worse.

Which is why I'm making this impassioned plea to all users. Not so much being the change you wanna see (haha ). That's a bit of a tall order. Just do what you can. Clean your corner of the house. Maybe hold yourself or others to a higher standard. Muck in and do your bit. That's what a goddamn community is for!

Getting angry or frustrated with mods and admin who are already struggling with burnout will not help. Nor will shrugging your shoulders and proclaiming that the forum is doomed. This is not 'their' forum. It is all of ours! So take ownership. Moderate yourself. Model respect and good boundaries. Suicidal people are often short on energy. But I'm willing to bet that while we can still read, absorb information and type, we can all play our part!

The dreaded Dr Phil does have one good quote. 'My father used to tell me: never miss a good chance to shut up'. That is a question of sensitivity and timing. Like if you sense a situation is delicate, the person needs space or you have simply said your piece, walk away.

Sadly the forum is already in crisis to the point where I think ignoring people is not the way to go. That just deepens the divisions. Strive to defuse conflict in any way you can. Get creative with it.

We want the privilege of hanging out in a clean, orderly, respectful and safe forum? Don't delegate the work to someone else! The buck stops with you and me.

I am SO confused. Why do people seem to think the site is dying? I know it got some negative press not too long ago, but if anything that seems to have increased its popularity, as some people joked about here. Users were ADDED after that. And eve if the site is under attack by press or whatever, what does that have to do with the moderators? And what are us non-mods being asked to do (i.e. what does "clean your corner of the house" mean?).
I'll snoop around more here independently, but if anyone can summarize what this is all about I'd be grateful :-)

Nevermind; a few minutes later, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like this is some sort of interpersonal beef unfolding. I thought it was something like this website was being made illegal, was going offline, etc.-- in other words, that it might stop existing soon. It sounds like people just mean it's been less...good? useful?...because folks are fighting. Guess I haven't spent enough time on here to really see much of that.

 

[almaranthine]

I lost a significant amount of brain cells trying to read through this thread why is this kind of drama even happening?? I'm trying to have a valuable insight here but my mind is full of static and I'm just genuinely baffled by this lol.

 

[sunsetting]

This place will never die. The worst it could happen would be for it to go elsewhere like one of those decentralized forums that can't be shutdown or something. There's far too many depressed humans on this planet that are brave enough to express their will to die and need an environment like this.

 

[FuneralCry]

Just don't ban me.

Too late for that. You got what you deserved, it took a long time but this site is finally free from your drivel. Goodbye and good riddance, this site is so much better off without trolls like you. I hope that you enjoy being happy, no wait happier far far away from this site.

 

[Chinaski]

Too late for that. You got what you deserved, it took a long time but this site is finally free from your drivel. Goodbye and good riddance, this site is so much better off without trolls like you. I hope that you enjoy being happy, no wait happier far far away from this site.

This is most unbecoming, whatever the reasons for their banning you're addressing someone who cannot reply in the manner of a schoolchild gloating after running to teacher.

 

[FuneralCry]

This is most unbecoming, whatever the reasons for their banning you're addressing someone who cannot reply in the manner of a schoolchild gloating after running to teacher.

No, I don't think so, my post is perfectly justified but of course you would say that, as the user who is gone was one of your most devoted fans on here and I guess that you share a few things in common. Maybe you cannot understand this, but it seriously is better for this site if someone who goes around derailing suffering people's serious threads with nonsense for attention seeking purposes is gone.

 

[Pluto]

To anyone following the situation, it should be obvious that freedompass was going through a bipolar episode. I was chatting to her at length in previous months and she was nothing like this. I acknowledge the inappropriateness of armchair psychology, but keep in mind she just conceded to having a bipolar diagnosis yesterday, plus I have experience with a family member who becomes similarly unhinged during mania.

Feelings in that state include uncontrollable excitement, overconfidence, irritability, a sense of invincibility and an inflated feeling of wellbeing. Behaviours include increased activity, reduced need for sleep, excessive talking/posting that may not make sense to others, loss of social inhibitions, saying things that are inappropriate, rudeness and risk-taking. (source)

It is very likely that she will soon return to a normal state and feel regret over this spectacle. Bipolar is a dreadful condition that many members here have unfortunately been afflicted by, and it is in turn often related to severe trauma in earlier life. Surely, the ideal response would strike a balance that ensures safety for the community whilst not judging someone who is clearly in the midst of a medical episode.

It's my humble opinion that an account suspension, be it a week or even a month, is a more suitable response than a permanent ban.

 

[Chinaski]

No, I don't think so, my post is perfectly justified but of course you would say that, as the user who is gone was one of your most devoted fans on here and I guess that you share a few things in common. Maybe you cannot understand this, but it seriously is better for this site if someone who goes around derailing suffering people's serious threads with nonsense for attention seeking purposes is gone.

I think it's quite telling that the only time one of your broadsides was delivered directly rather than in a sneaker generic form (like the one delivered snarkily, but not directly, at me in the above quote) was at a point the individual concerned could not reply, to be honest.

I didn't know freedompass at all tbh and fwiw would agree that their posting had become erratic and somewhat out of character - they struck me as a user who came here for genuine reasons, ended up on the receiving end of some unnecessarily rancid bullshit for making one innoccuous comment and had spiralled since. I hope they do okay, because l think they probably needed, and contributed more overall to, this website than those who celebrate their exile.

EDIT: also stop being so fucking enthusiastic about running people you don't like off the site ffs

 

[bluem00n]

...

...

Here are two individuals - @freedompass and @FuneralCry - both of whom endure significant mental health challenges. One has of late been in a florid / manic bipolar state, the other is autistic.

Pluto summarised the symptoms of bipolar psychology in Post #49, and this post summarises the symptoms of autism (both summarised above). And looking at those two sets of symptoms side-by-side, I think it's fair to assume that any adversarial interaction between these two individuals is likely to get rather messy!

What's really weird though, is that - when a clash does actually arise - rather than try and calm things down, onlookers step up and take sides! Weirder still - without exception - these onlookers defend the manic-depressive, and snipe at the autistic, in what looks to me like a distinctly hostile tone, that's then endorsed by several favourable reacts (and yes, I'd include Pluto as party to that - not here, but in two veiled attacks on FuneralCry in a very recent thread of mine).

Given the wide array of symptoms at play here, disentangling their interactions is surely not a task for the feint-hearted! Really, I can't figure out how anyone could so readily favour the posts of one mental affliction over another ...

So perhaps someone could enlighten me as to why it's suddenly OK to berate an autistic if you're defending a manic-depressive - I mean, what's the rationale behind that bias ...?​

 

[Pluto]

(and yes, I'd include Pluto as party to that - not here, but in two veiled attacks on FuneralCry in a very recent thread of mine).

I cannot comment on any particular post that I may have 'liked' or the context behind it. Many posts make a number of points and a 'like' does not necessarily imply agreeing with all of them.

Though several concerned people have asked me in private about this issue, out of respect for FuneralCry I am not going to speculate about her mental health here. I am not aware of any formal diagnosis of any sort.

Beyond that, I more or less stand behind previous comments that I've made. I disagree with anyone claiming an authority to definitively admonish others who may be attempting recovery or may have ever seen a positive side to life. There can be many other reasons why people are suicidal and I believe all should feel welcome so long as they are here in good faith. I do not do ad hominem attacks (I hope) but I reserve the right to defend the forum users who feel concerned about any particular user displaying increasingly domineering behaviour.

That said, I have publicly defended FuneralCry's willingness to offer support and sympathy to new users whose posts might otherwise go ignored. I stand by this as I still feel that this is a value to the community. In the context of this particular disagreement, I also agree with FuneralCry regarding the need for action. Freedompass' state was getting out of hand, and appears to have been triggered by this situation. I suggested that the best thing for everyone, including freedompass, would be an account suspension, which I understand is being considered as we speak.

If even this is considered unfair or biased, so be it. I may even be human like anyone else.

 

[bluem00n]

... out of respect for FuneralCry I am not going to speculate about her mental health. I am not aware of any formal diagnosis of any sort.

I believe it's generally known, FuneralCry posted about it on Post #4 of this thread.

Most of what she says (and the way she says it - another issue for some of her critics) - the stuff that gets people's backs up - are exactly consistent with / actually symtomatic of autism. It concerns me that her critics either choose to ignore that / fail to factor that in to their antagonistic posts, else are unacquainted with that aspect of her persona. That's why I've raised it here.

I agree with you regarding freedompass, that a permanent ban would seem heavy-handed under the circumstances, so hopefully it's just a case of 'time out' for a while.​

 

[Pluto]

I believe it's generally known, FuneralCry posted about it on Post #4 of this thread.
​

I stand corrected on this point. I had not viewed that thread.

Keep in mind that every second person here has either some degree of autism or bipolar. (Even I was diagnosed as autistic but I dispute it; that's a story for another day.)

Either can be extremely painful conditions that can easily predispose an individual towards suicidal ideation. Also, both are complicated and nuanced. It is worth noting that clashes like this are relatively rare, thus are not simply explainable by these being incompatible ailments. Historically, this has been a remarkably peaceful community considering all of us have potentially conflicting triggers, traumas and cognitive distortions.

We have had other users in the past (motelrooms springs to mind) who were charismatic contributors with known mental ailments, yet they ultimately were banned for aggressive behaviour towards other users. Having an ailment is not a free pass to break forum rules, yet there is a place for being compassionate and accounting for people's inner struggles when the moderators make decisions. This is a delicate balance, and the particular situation in question here has proven to be a very difficult dilemma for all of us.

 

[Chinaski]

* freedompass uses the word "happier" to describe herself in reply to the twice-daily FuneralCry post about suicide being the answer to everyone's problems, delusional etc etc

* the response to this is GET OFF OUR SUICIDE FORUM U NASTY TROLL from the usual quarters who police entry, ostracise users and find disagreement to be the same thing as bullying. This spans multiple threads, and it's even referred to in this thread as if this comment was the most harmful thing ever said on here.

* freedompass spends over a day fending off these pricks, one of whom sees fit to label her "insane", then checks old threads and sees there is form for this conduct which routinely goes unchecked, encouraged even

* freedompass begins posting erratically and out of character, and imo was posting in a way which warranted moderator intervention.

It is important to view the first two points when discussing the conduct which led to her ban. Mods saw fit to ban a user who had spiralled and was posting erratically, but this does not mean that the group of people on here who initially goaded and ostracised her according to their own ugly playground bullshit should be allowed to now gloat in the aftermath and pretend they are victims of anything. Those who saw it unfold will have seen a very unpleasant side to the fucking lot of that pathetic little group and each time they do this manipulative, pitchfork-wielding crap the veneer of copypasta faux-empathy, backed with the this-is-a-suicide-forum-don't-you-know handwringing, ebbs away slightly and more people will see them for the phoneys they are.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I believe it's generally known, FuneralCry posted about it on Post #4 of this thread.

Most of what she says (and the way she says it - another issue for some of her critics) - the stuff that gets people's backs up - are exactly consistent with / actually symtomatic of autism. It concerns me that her critics either choose to ignore that / fail to factor that in to their antagonistic posts, else are unacquainted with that aspect of her persona. That's why I've raised it here.

I agree with you regarding freedompass, that a permanent ban would seem heavy-handed under the circumstances, so hopefully it's just a case of 'time out' for a while.​

This I think really sums it up and why we have seen so much conflict of late- that we all need to be 'accommodating' to fairly extreme and uncompromising language because it is an aspect of someone's personality.

While personally I think it would be nice if we could discuss varying opinions rationally- without it all degrading into bullying, I think- on a site such as this- we probably DO have to know when to leave some subjects (and people) alone.

From a personal perspective, I feel like both FuneralCry and Freedompass bring positive things to the site. My opinions are more in line with Freedompass but that doesn't mean I've taken 'sides.' I'm just really sad the whole thing got so out of hand. I do hope Freedompass is allowed to return when they have cooled off. I personally believe that they were in need of this site just as much as anyone else here. (Rather than the assertion they were some pro life tourist.) However, I have to say personally, their postings were (for me) becoming increasingly antagonistic.

Still- I'd argue- if we are to accept or ignore the adament Nihilist perspectives here and not dare to question them (which may or may not be a consequence of autism,) then, shouldn't we also be compromising to someone who may or may not be in the throws of a manic stage of depression? As you said @bluem00n I hope this is a suspension for @freedompass and not an outright ban.

 

[Chinaski]

This I think really sums it up and why we have seen so much conflict of late- that we all need to be 'accommodating' to fairly extreme and uncompromising language because it is an aspect of someone's personality.

While personally I think it would be nice if we could discuss varying opinions rationally- without it all degrading into bullying, I think- on a site such as this- we probably DO have to know when to leave some subjects (and people) alone.


Still- I'd argue- if we are to accept or ignore the adament Nihilist perspectives here and not dare to question them (which may or may not be a consequence of autism,) then, shouldn't we also be compromising to someone who may or may not be in the throws of a manic stage of depression? As you said @bluem00n I hope this is a suspension for @freedompass and not an outright ban.

I think what's more pertinent than the "nihilism or not" issue is the way one set of users insist those who disagree with them are trolls, bullies, should not be here, are "insane", must pass a particular opinion checklist criteria for entry etc etc. This is what creates the atmosphere, and people who react badly to this are those who end up on the receiving end of disciplinary action rather than those who dole it out, who then gloat triumphantly in the aftermath whilst simultaneously playing the victim. I can swerve the tedious nihilism copypastes, but this shitty conduct is one-sided and it'd be inaccurate to take a both-sides view.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think what's more pertinent than the "nihilism or not" issue is the way one set of users insist those who disagree with them are trolls, bullies, should not be here, are "insane", must pass a particular opinion checklist criteria for entry etc etc. This is what creates the atmosphere, and people who react badly to this are those who end up on the receiving end of disciplinary action rather than those who dole it out, who then gloat triumphantly in the aftermath whilst simultaneously playing the victim. I can swerve the tedious nihilism copypastes, but this shitty conduct is one-sided and it'd be inaccurate to take a both-sides view.

I do understand where you are coming from and I have seen it here sadly.

That said- I don't prescribe to the 'Nihilism for all' point of view. I have opposed it plenty on various threads but I've never received any abuse back. Sometimes I've been ignored- absolutely fine- some people don't want to argue about their perspective. Other people have engaged in debate- great.

I don't know the full history of this shit show. However, I'm guessing at some point, less than respectful language was used to someone like FuneralCry and she retaliated and it's gone on from there. That's my theory- I could be wrong... All I'm saying is- it got out of hand and both 'sides' threw mud.

If there are people on here who clearly get offended by stuff but otherwise leave you alone- isn't it better just to leave them alone? You're never going to 'win' afterall.

That said- yes, I can't help but feel @freedompass got a raw deal here if they have been banned forever. I'm assuming the moderators do look back into their post history to make their decision. Still, if they're doing all this for free, it's got to be such a headache for them.

 

[Chinaski]

I don't know the full history of this shit show. However, I'm guessing at some point, less than respectful language was used to someone like FuneralCry and she retaliated and it's gone on from there. That's my theory- I could be wrong... All I'm saying is- it got out of hand and both 'sides' threw mud.

Not that I've seen tbh, l have seen people naturally disagree with their position in a very civil way be routinely and reflexively labelled as described, however.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Not that I've seen tbh, l have seen people naturally disagree with their position in a very civil way be routinely and reflexively labelled as described, however.

You could be right... Like I say- I don't know. Ends up being a very petty 'she said, he said.' Still- it likely is important if- as you say one 'side' of people are expressing their opinions rationally and calmly- only to be insulted.

Like I say- can only go on my experience which has by and large been civil with everyone despite opposing views.