Method plastic bag + citric acid and baking soda?

[Aleksandra]

link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29785586/

how would this method work?

 

[woxihuanni]

I cannot access the full text, but if somebody can, it'd be nice.

 

[Aleksandra]

I cannot access the full text, but if somebody can, it'd be nice.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...uchi/608aed239c14a3d6550ca2655d49c99359c0b240 this one is another article but same person
if article not working then;
"We describe a case of suicidal asphyxiation using a plastic bag combined with carbon dioxide (CO2) gas. A 20-year-old male, whose head was covered with a plastic bag, was found dead in his room. In the plastic bag, there were two glass-made cups containing liquid-like substance. Through crime scene investigation by police staffs, a bottle of citric acid and a box of baking soda were also discovered in his room. The forensic autopsy revealed that there were neither lesions nor injuries in all of the organs. Moreover, any drugs and poisons could not be detected in blood samples. Based on autopsy findings and crime scene investigation, the cause of death was diagnosed as acute asphyxia due to CO2 intoxication by the mixture of citric acid with baking soda in the plastic bag. To the best of our knowledge, there are no medical literatures describing plastic bag suffocation combined with CO2 gas generated from citric acid and baking soda, which has been widely distributed as suicidal means through websites. This case report promotes forensic pathologists and medical coroners to emphasize that the Internet has a crucial role on a source of suicidal information or a promoter of suicide all over the world"

 

[Lennox]

I cannot access the full text, but if somebody can, it'd be nice.

Here's the full text:

 

[kypnrp]

Hm. You probably just mix the two, let the resulting gas fill a bag (carefully, so that it doesn't escape), put your head inside and take a few breaths.

According to the paper, "In this case, it was possibly considered that the 20-year old male inhaled a large amount of CO2 gas at once in the plastic bag, instantly resulting in the loss of his consciousness without feeling of asphyxia", so that could be a quick and (edit: maybe not very) painless method!

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Let me do some math, someone correct me if I'm wrong:

According to this, we need to mix 1g of sodium bicarbonate and 1.2g of citric acid to get 0.55g of carbon dioxide. We're looking at a 25% CO2 concentration for it to be almost instantly fatal. Assuming a bag that has 5 liters of capacity, we'd need to add about 1.67 liters of CO2, which would be 0.075 mol which is the same as 3.3g.

So, TL;DR 6g of baking soda and 7.2g of citric acid should be enough. That's definitely a lot less than I expected, sounds very feasible.

 

[Aleksandra]

Hm. You probably just mix the two, let the resulting gas fill a bag and, put your head inside and take a few breaths.

According to the paper, "In this case, it was possibly considered that the 20-year old male inhaled a large amount of CO2 gas at once in the plastic bag, instantly resulting in the loss of his consciousness without feeling of asphyxia".

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Let me do some math, someone correct me if I'm wrong:

According to this, we need to mix 1g of sodium bicarbonate and 1.2g of citric acid to get 0.55g of carbon dioxide. We're looking at a 25% CO2 concentration for it to be almost instantly fatal. Assuming a bag that has 5 liters of capacity, we'd need to add about 1.67 liters of CO2, which would be 0.075 mol which is the same as 3.3g.

So, TL;DR 6g of baking soda and 7.2g of citric acid should be enough. That's definitely a lot less than I expected, sounds very feasible.

would that mean that this method is essentially painless and swift? perhaps even more reliable than helium?

 

[kypnrp]

Well, you'll probably not feel pain, but there's the possibility that instead you'd suffocate for a few seconds before passing out, that can happen with CO2 poisoning. I believe it should be quick, assuming that what I've sourced and my math are correct.

I'd not rely completely on this as a plan A seeing how new it is, but that'll definitely go to my list as I don't mind the brief agony.

 

[hunthunt]

Wait this looks fantastic, cheap, easy to obtain oand fast.

Anyone in the know who would like to share a bit os insight about it.

 

[Aleksandra]

Well, you'll probably not feel pain, but there's the possibility that instead you'd suffocate for a few seconds before passing out, that can happen with CO2 poisoning. I believe it should be quick, assuming that what I've sourced and my math are correct.

I'd not rely completely on this as a plan A seeing how new it is, but that'll definitely go to my list as I don't mind the brief agony.

yeah if it's just a brief moment then it seems really doable and cheap for what it is. how would you get the gas into the bag though? because unlike helium and nitrogen, you can't just hook up regulators and pipes:(

Wait this looks fantastic, cheap, easy to obtain oand fast.

Anyone in the know who would like to share a bit os insight about it.

yeah i'm surprised it wasn't talked more on here, i cant find anything else on it, definitely creative. doesn't look like he suffered a whole lot either. and easier making excuses to why you'd need citric acid lol. "i make bathbombs!"

 

[Lennox]

A CO(carbon monoxide) death is peaceful and, if the concentration is high enough, pretty fast (and you don't feel you're asphyxiating) , but a CO2 (carbon dioxide) death isn't. The raising levels of CO2 in the air activate our Hypercapnic Alarm Response, which is the panicky feeling when we are asphyxiating. I'd say it's not a good way to die. You'll be desperately gulping for air, for at least a couple of minutes, before losing consciousness.

Inert gases (nitrogen, helium argon) are also peaceful because the absence of CO2 in the gas you're breathing causes the brain to never figure out you're actually asphyxiating. It's the CO2 levels that alert the brain something is up, not the oxygen levels.

 

[Aleksandra]

A CO(carbon monoxide) death is peaceful and, if the concentration is high enough, pretty fast (and you don't feel you're asphyxiating) , but a CO2 (carbon dioxide) death isn't. The raising levels of CO2 in the air activate our Hypercapnic Alarm Response, which is the panicky feeling when we are asphyxiating. I'd say it's not a good way to die. You'll be desperately gulping for air, for at least a couple of minutes, before losing consciousness.

Inert gases (nitrogen, helium argon) are also peaceful because the absence of CO2 in the gas you're breathing causes the brain to never figure out you're actually asphyxiating. It's the CO2 levels that alert the brain something is up, not the oxygen levels.

hm, how would you suggest he was able to pull this off without his survival instinct kicking in? or do you think it was based off of determination?

 

[kypnrp]

how would you get the gas into the bag though? because unlike helium and nitrogen, you can't just hook up regulators and pipes:(

I'd say put a small bowl on the floor, make the mixture and then quickly cover it with the bag. Once it's full of gas, close the hole of the bag to trap it inside. Then, quickly put it on your head and then take a few deep breaths. Not sure how much gas would escape in the process, though.

You could also put the bag over your head and the ingredients inside, though I have no idea how long it takes for the gas to form.

That might be tricky, does anyone have better ideas?

 

[Lennox]

hm, how would you suggest he was able to pull this off without his survival instinct kicking in? or do you think it was based off of determination?

I think it was determination that allowed him to go through with it to the end. His SI certainly kicked in.

 

[Aleksandra]

I'd say put a small bowl on the floor, make the mixture and then quickly cover it with the bag. Once it's full of gas, close the hole of the bag to trap it inside. Then, quickly put it on your head and then take a few deep breaths. Not sure how much gas would escape in the process, though.

You could also put the bag over your head and the ingredients inside, though I have no idea how long it takes for the gas to form.

That might be tricky, does anyone have better ideas?

seeing his body position and how the mixture was placed, he probably did that method, but it doesn't seem reliable unless you're really lucky, or get a really large bag and idk,, make the mixture in it whilst you are there?? odd one i guess

 

[kypnrp]

A CO(carbon monoxide) death is peaceful and, if the concentration is high enough, pretty fast (and you don't feel you're asphyxiating) , but a CO2 (carbon dioxide) death isn't. The raising levels of CO2 in the air activate our Hypercapnic Alarm Response, which is the panicky feeling when we are asphyxiating. I'd say it's not a good way to die. You'll be desperately gulping for air, for at least a couple of minutes, before losing consciousness.

Inert gases (nitrogen, helium argon) are also peaceful because the absence of CO2 in the gas you're breathing causes the brain to never figure out you're actually asphyxiating. It's the CO2 levels that alert the brain something is up, not the oxygen levels.

The paper says that the concentration of CO2 was so high that he didn't feel the effects and passed out within seconds rather than minutes (see the quote in my comment above, there's also a link confirming that info)
In lower concentrations, what you described is right, but this was a different case.

 

[Neville1]

@Lennox it's odd to me that you write such logical and sensible posts as above but also are considering the extremely not peaceful detergent method. I wish that you find peace one way or another.

 

[Lennox]

The paper says that the concentration of CO2 was so high that he didn't feel the effects and passed out within seconds rather than minutes (see the quote in my comment above, there's also a link confirming that info)
In lower concentrations, what you described is right, but this was a different case.

I see, it may be fast, but I believe the feeling of asphyxiation would still be present before you pass out. Here's a video of a pig being asphyxiated in CO2 gas chamber. Notice its despair:

@Lennox it's odd to me that you write such logical and sensible posts as above but also are considering the extremely not peaceful detergent method. I wish that you find peace one way or another.

Well, my research so far tells me that if I can manage to reach a high enough concentration of hydrogen sulfide upfront (1000ppm) I'll suffer the "knockdown effect" and lose consciousness in seconds. I'm still awaiting for chemicals to arrive to conduct tests and see if I can pull it off. If not I'll stick to carbon monoxide.

 

[Aleksandra]

I see, it may be fast, but I believe the feeling of asphyxiation would still be present before you pass out. Here's a video of a pig being asphyxiated in CO2 gas chamber. Notice its despair:




Well, my research so far tells me that if I can manage to reach a high enough concentration of hydrogen sulfide upfront (1000ppm) I'll suffer the "knockdown effect" and lose consciousness in seconds. I'm still awaiting for chemicals to arrive to conduct tests and see if I can pull it off. If not I'll stick to carbon monoxide.

i can see no surprises is your favourite song too. i wanted to die via carbon monoxide poisoning but i don't have the correct resources for it, hence why this kind of method may work for me. i tried helium but i failed for two reasons, my partner found me and i didn't have enough. i know nitrogen is a better source but these are very pricey, compared this this kind of method, anyway

 

[Lennox]

i can see no surprises is your favourite song too. i wanted to die via carbon monoxide poisoning but i don't have the correct resources for it, hence why this kind of method may work for me. i tried helium but i failed for two reasons, my partner found me and i didn't have enough. i know nitrogen is a better source but these are very pricey, compared this this kind of method, anyway

Yes, one of my favorites . About the CO method, a lot of people do it using charcoal which is relatively cheap and accessible, but you need an enclosed space and privacy. Maybe you can go with that? I'll be producing my CO by mixing chemicals.

 

[Battered_Seoul]

Could a test tube with a nozzle be taped to the inside of the bag for controlled release of the CO2?
I wonder if you also could place a small block of dry ice to sublimate inside the bag space. Sadly, my head is somewhat large so I dont want it getting too cowded in there ;)

 

[Aleksandra]

Yes, one of my favorites . About the CO method, a lot of people do it using charcoal which is relatively cheap and accessible, but you need an enclosed space and privacy. Maybe you can go with that? I'll be producing my CO by mixing chemicals.

i was reading about how to mix chemicals to produce CO. charcoal? could you explain how it would work as all i can think of is burning it to produce CO. radiohead make the best songs to ctb yourself to :')

Could a test tube with a nozzle be taped to the inside of the bag for controlled release of the CO2?
I wonder if you also could place a small block of dry ice to sublimate inside the bag space. Sadly, my head is somewhat large so I dont want it getting too cowded in there ;)

i read somewhere someone attempted the dry ice method i suppose getting a large bag and putting it on the other end? maybe :o
did some more research on co2 poisoning and stumbled across this; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24114436/

it seems you'd need pure co2 for rapid unconsciousness, perhaps pair it with a sedative and you have a cheap way out.

 

[Lennox]

i was reading about how to mix chemicals to produce CO. charcoal? could you explain how it would work as all i can think of is burning it to produce CO. radiohead make the best songs to ctb yourself to :')

I agree, I'm a big radiohead fan :-)
About the charcoal, honestly I don't know much about specifics because I never consider using charcoal myself. I know that when the charcoal starts to burn it'll be releasing mostly CO2, so it's not the time to use it. You let it burn for a while. After some time the charcoal burning will be releasing only CO, and that's when you move it to the room/place/car where you'll let the CO build up.

There's a Carbon Monoxide Megathread, where mostly the charcoal method is discussed, I think you can find more answers there.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/carbon-monoxide-megathread.2053/page-2

 

[Aleksandra]

I agree, I'm a big radiohead fan :-)
About the charcoal, honestly I don't know much about specifics because I never consider using charcoal myself. I know that when the charcoal starts to burn it'll be releasing mostly CO2, so it's not the time to use it. You let it burn for a while. After some time the charcoal burning will be releasing only CO, and that's when you move it to the room/place/car where you'll let the CO build up.

There's a Carbon Monoxide Megathread, where mostly the charcoal method is discussed, I think you can find more answers there.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/carbon-monoxide-megathread.2053/page-2

ah okay, i wasn't very educated in the charcoal part but i guess that method would work for me if i did it at night. my lungs are weak as it is as i take my daily handshake of carbon monoxide ;)

 

[Neville1]

@Lennox in theory the CO method should be very reliable and peaceful. Achieving it by mixing acids looks so promising in the video of the gulps machine but no member of this forum has been able to build such machine. John Todd who built it has been building similar ones since before 2003. Unfortunately, he has not published any how-to, video or textual. If you're successful, please share.

 

[Lennox]

@Lennox in theory the CO method should be very reliable and peaceful. Achieving it by mixing acids looks so promising in the video of the gulps machine but no member of this forum has been able to build such machine. John Todd who built it has been building similar ones since before 2003. Unfortunately, he has not published any how-to, video or textual. If you're successful, please share.

My setup is incomplete, but as soon as I finish it I'll share!

 

[Aleksandra]

My setup is incomplete, but as soon as I finish it I'll share!

i looked up your method of creating CO with chemicals, it's very relatively cheap. mixing of sulphuric and formic acid in a enclosed space, could work. also i heard if you do it via fumes from dry ice it's also quite fatal

 

[Soul]

I like the looks of this baking-soda+citric-acid technique a lot - thanks very much for posting it, and for liberating the article. I'm CO2-retentive, which makes inert-gas methods unpeaceful at best, but I wonder if it would matter in this case.

@zajebistakaczka, if you're serious about having bad lungs you may also need to be aware of the inappropriacy of inert-gas methods.

On the other hand, when I was in a hypercapnic coma last year I enjoyed it immensely.

 

[Aleksandra]

I like the looks of this baking-soda+citric-acid technique a lot - thanks very much for posting it, and for liberating the article. I'm CO2-retentive, which makes inert-gas methods unpeaceful at best, but I wonder if it would matter in this case.

@zajebistakaczka, if you're serious about having bad lungs you may also need to be aware of the inappropriacy of inert-gas methods.

On the other hand, when I was in a hypercapnic coma last year I enjoyed it immensely.

it was a reference to a song we both know was all, but i am a smoker. this one i found is really not talked about, i would love to try it but i'm a little thrown off, i found a few articles where people died using co2 over helium, supposedly if it's high enough and it's a rapid increase, you should be knocked out within seconds, maybe with slight discomfort at most

 

[Subhuman]

If this is reliable, it might just be the easiest method ever. I use baking soda a lot for cleaning and I add lemon juice (or vinegar) to it when I need to scrub something particularly stubborn. The reaction is instant and I don't think there's any need to wait for the mixture to produce enough CO2 or anything. If I knew the exact doses I wouldn't bother with complicated gadgets and procedures. All I'd do is lie down and put a plastic bag over my head, dump a box of baking soda in the bag, add a cup/bottle of vinegar, and immediately seal the bag with gorilla tape. If I were worried about suffering while I wait for the concentration of CO2 to become strong enough to knock me out, I might just hold my breath for as long as I can. I figure the more baking soda and vinegar you use, the quicker the process. Both are so cheap, I would be overjoyed if this actually works.

 

[woxihuanni]

Thank you to everyone for bringing up and furthering the discussion of this method. Maybe it's also combinable with ODs for good measure.