Pegasos a scam?

[Install-Gentoo]

I've tried asking about eligibility to Pegasos with 5 different email addresses with different fake stories about permanent medical conditions, having gone to therapy for 5 to 10 years with no changing my mind against ending my life, consulting with my family and having their support for this act, etc. Everything you can think of that would make my case seem "acceptable" to take on. I made up different aliases of varying ages, with the lowest being 25 and the oldest being 50.
None of them were accepted! None! What?! I mean seriously, "Gerard Frazier" was a prominent athlete in his youth but after extreme arthritis AND a car crash resulting in a crushed lung AND heart problems all combined rendered any physical activities impossible, he finds himself joyless at the age of 47. Not only that, his aunt has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and it's been determined that Gerard is genetically guaranteed to have it too. And additionally, Gerard was divorced by his wife who thought that "too much time with him at home would negatively affect the kids", as if he were a bad influence solely because of his inability to travel to work. Gerard can't catch a break! And yet when he goes to Pegasos to see about quietly ending his suffering, they say:

Dear Gerard,

Thank you for providing your background information, greatly appreciated.

As a relatively young person, we are sorry but we are unable to help you at Pegasos.
We strongly encourage you to seek further counselling and assistance in your home country.

A useful website with international help lines and websites is:

Suicide Hotlines - Suicide.org! Suicide Hotlines - Suicide.org! Suicide Hotlines - Suicide.org!

Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines

www.suicide.org

As an assisted dying association we have to work within the requirements of the Swiss system, we aren't able to obtain sodium pentobarbital ourselves, it needs to be prescribed to us on a case by case basis.

Your application would not be approved, so rather than waste your time and money we would strongly recommend that you seek counselling and further treatment options in your home country.

I hope that this helps to explain the situation.

Kind regards and best
wishes,
Damian

Well screw you Damian! Have you no sympathy for Gerry?! I mean, Gerard is a fictional character invented by me, but come on!
I've seen these EXACT words used in so many other rejection emails from Pegasos. It doesn't matter what the age is, it's always too young. And when I ask for clarification, they just... repeat the same EXACT message. It's actually comical, how when I ask "what specific age do you draw the line at for eligibility? You say I am a relatively young person", their response is "As a relatively young person, we are sorry but..."
I just find it kind of ridiculous that no matter how awful are the lives led by my fictional characters created for testing Pegasos' vague eligibility requirements, NONE of them get accepted. Now poor Gerard Frazier will live as a miserable shell of a man, watching basketball games on TV and crying through memories of his golden years. And he'll be forced to live like that for 20, maybe even 30 more years until the Alzheimer's takes effect and he loses those memories and is introduced to a new hell. All because he wasn't allowed to quit life early.

So in conclusion, is Pegasos a scam? Serious question. Do they exist only to attract "members" who'll pay 10k swissbucks for the hope that maybe eventually they'll be able to use Pegasos' services? I know some people on here claim that SaSu users have used Pegasos to complete their lives. Not to be disrespectful, but maybe those users are just Pegasos employees trying to "advertise" in some sick way? I know the news says some people have used it and they've successfully died. I suppose it's much harder to lie to the news... But it's not impossible. Maybe it's useless to ask this question, because if SaSu really is compromised with Pegasos employees working as marketing here, they'll just lie in the comments. But I don't know, maybe some of the more trusted users will comment.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Euthanasia is only granted to people who are almost dead already after (in the worst case) decades of suffering. That's my personal opinion.

It's not granted to people who are relatively "young" and to people who are "healthy" but just don't want to experience any more hardships in their lives or want to prevent them selves from having to even endure a harder life they already have to suffer from.

This kind of euthanasia is only a first step in the right direction but by far not what is necessary. Each and everyone must have a right and peaceful way to exit this world when every they wish for and for their personal reasons (adults 18+ who are considered adults by law in most countries).

 

[Install-Gentoo]

Euthanasia is only granted to people who are almost dead already after (in the worst case) decades of suffering. That's my personal opinion.

It's not granted to people who are relatively "young" and to people who are "healthy" but just don't want to experience any more hardships in their lives or want to prevent them selves from having to even endure a harder life they already have to suffer from.

This kind of euthanasia is only a first step in the right direction but by far not what is necessary. Each and everyone must have a right and peaceful way to exit this world when every they wish for and for their personal reasons (adults 18+ who are considered adults by law in most countries).

I was under the impression that Switzerland was more forward thinking in this regard. Its already been legal for Canadians and even Americans to hasten their death by a matter of weeks (instead of years or decades) through voluntary assistance. Why does everyone act like Switzerland or Belgium are special then?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I was under the impression that Switzerland was more forward thinking in this regard. Its already been legal for Canadians and even Americans to hasten their death by a matter of weeks (instead of years or decades) through voluntary assistance. Why does everyone act like Switzerland or Belgium are special then?

"years or decades" I just wanted to emphasize that it can be a long process. I don't know much about the actual processes and how long it really takes, all ik is it needs a lot of documentation and health issues history. It's not like that anyone can go there and apply. In my case they would never grant me assistance just bc I failed in my life without any health issues.

 

[voyager]

Belgium/Holland (afaik) is kinda special if your a citizen, since they might (!) eventually allow you to die with mental issues being the only cause. But that's my problem at least, "allow". I'm not going to ask anyone for permission or validation and if it means having to do it on my own then so be it. I wouldn't get it anyway.

Switzerland is pretty liberal when it comes to suicide and assistance but unfortunately it won't hand out pentobarbital to just about anyone. I'm not sure what the exact guidelines are but Dignitas has always shied away from mental issues. Maybe because they're hard to prove as incurable, officially at least, and therefore represent a legal liability.

Dignitas has been in business for some thirty years now and has helped some people, but it hasn't changed anything and probably never will. It's pointless going up against society as a whole and as long as those on top don't see the necessity it won't happen, imho. How much the monetary motivation plays into these organisations I do not know, but for the most part it does seem to be an elitist club for older people who just want to avoid nature's way or general population with serious illnesses, which is better than nothing, I guess, but really just barely scratching the surface.

I do wonder though what happens if you have a serious issue that it doesn't allow one to administer it oneself? Maybe one is limited to eye movement. Computer administration maybe? It's rubbish, we should have Soylent Green now.

Pray for Gerard.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

"years or decades" I just wanted to emphasize that it can be a long process. I don't know much about the actual processes and how long it really takes, all ik is it needs a lot of documentation and health issues history. It's not like that anyone can go there and apply. In my case they would never grant me assistance just bc I failed in my life without any health issues.

I meant "hasten death by weeks" as in offering services to someone who would be dead in a matter of weeks anyway, as opposed to hastening a healthy death by a matter of years, since they would die naturally many years ahead.

But even then, if they only approve people who are practically dead already, why do people report taking so long with paperwork? I mean, imagine you have deadly cancer and you aren't sure that you'll live to the end of the year, and then Pegasos says they might sort out your paperwork in two years' time. It just seems messed up either way. They don't approve anyone who doesn't already have an impending death, but they also take too long to handle someone who's already doomed.

Pray for Gerard.

lol

 

[cosifantutti]

I am 63 but I haven't found any literature that suggests you can be euthanised because of age. Believe me I've looked!

 

[Grooveshark47]

I was under the impression that Switzerland was more forward thinking in this regard. Its already been legal for Canadians and even Americans to hasten their death by a matter of weeks (instead of years or decades) through voluntary assistance. Why does everyone act like Switzerland or Belgium are special then?

Is this the place the 2 very healthy sisters who I believe were drs & paid to be put to sleep?

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

seems like you were trying to scam them. am sure they are not new to these things. they admit right away that they will be slow to respond. 25-50? how were you planning to provide proof of identity? why are you wasting their time? they are understaffed.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

seems like you were trying to scam them.

Scam? I'm literally just trying to get a concrete answer as to what their eligibility requirements are. i.e. what's the minimum age, what does the condition have to be like, are mental conditions ok, etc. Because they don't specify this AT ALL on their website, and after rejecting me they give vague reasons and say to "seek therapy" like everyone else on the planet.
If any one of my attempts were to get accepted and they were to ask for payment/personal info/other necessary factors for treatment, I would respond by asking "what made me eligible for your program? I've heard your service is very restrictive about who is approved."
I'm not trying to get money or anything out of Pegasos. I literally just want them to be more clear about their requirements. Otherwise, it seems like they're scamming others by offering a desirable service for 10000 and hoping people will pay up before being told they're ineligible.

"As a relatively young person, we can't help you." What's the boundary for being "too young"? 47 is too young? Why not give an exact number or at least a range?
"We have to work within the requirements of the swiss system" what requirements? Can you specify those requirements? Please tell me more. As far as I can find out from the law, the only requirements are that I'm not being coerced into it and Pegasos isn't taking advantage of me for any selfish benefit (then why the 10k lmao) and that I am capable of rational thought.
"Your application would not be approved" why? "so we recommend to go get therapy" even after several of my email attempts claim to already have gone to over 5 years of therapy to no avail, some of them even 10 or 15? After how long is therapy considered ineffective?

SPECIFICS please, Pegasos!

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

think you said you made 5 accounts? enough said.

 

[Meditation guide]

What you wrote in your first post sounds like depression, being scared of getting alzheimer's disease, and being depressed about being handicapped, not having an actual illness that causes unbearable suffering. I am only guessing but that didn't sound like you would be eligible.

I wrote to them and they want you to jump through too many almost impossible hoops, and then they can still turn you down and keep your money.

I am 63 but I haven't found any literature that suggests you can be euthanised because of age. Believe me I've looked!

One of those euthanasia clinics did euthanize a very elderly man at his request solely due to his age. He was around 100 as I recall. He was Australian.

 

[http-410]

Besides the reasons already mentioned here, it could also be that if you did not use a VPN or Tor, they will probably have seen that all requests came from one IP.

 

[randal_bond]

Scam? I'm literally just trying to get a concrete answer as to what their eligibility requirements are. i.e. what's the minimum age, what does the condition have to be like, are mental conditions ok, etc. Because they don't specify this AT ALL on their website, and after rejecting me they give vague reasons and say to "seek therapy" like everyone else on the planet.
If any one of my attempts were to get accepted and they were to ask for payment/personal info/other necessary factors for treatment, I would respond by asking "what made me eligible for your program? I've heard your service is very restrictive about who is approved."
I'm not trying to get money or anything out of Pegasos. I literally just want them to be more clear about their requirements. Otherwise, it seems like they're scamming others by offering a desirable service for 10000 and hoping people will pay up before being told they're ineligible.

"As a relatively young person, we can't help you." What's the boundary for being "too young"? 47 is too young? Why not give an exact number or at least a range?
"We have to work within the requirements of the swiss system" what requirements? Can you specify those requirements? Please tell me more. As far as I can find out from the law, the only requirements are that I'm not being coerced into it and Pegasos isn't taking advantage of me for any selfish benefit (then why the 10k lmao) and that I am capable of rational thought.
"Your application would not be approved" why? "so we recommend to go get therapy" even after several of my email attempts claim to already have gone to over 5 years of therapy to no avail, some of them even 10 or 15? After how long is therapy considered ineffective?

SPECIFICS please, Pegasos!

If any shop can refuse to serve you and they are not required to give reasons, why would an organization that is so much under scrutiny and bad/controversial/sensationalist press already give bad actors more ammunition? They don't owe you specifics or any explanation whatsoever. They don't owe you anything at all. One thing for sure. They can easily be sued for any wrong move. So, their response is not surprising.

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

i think the biggest reason i gave up on this reason was the psych exams. it's a long flight for me, i don't trust psychiatrists. will not fly out there for an exam.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

What you wrote in your first post sounds like depression, being scared of getting alzheimer's disease, and being depressed about being handicapped, not having an actual illness that causes unbearable suffering.

Isn't "being handicapped" something that could cause serious suffering? "Suffering" seems really subjective here. Does suffering only refer to physical pain? If you had a disease where you shit yourself every time you moved your legs, would this be okay because at least there's no physical pain? Whatever, I understand your point to an extent.

I wrote to them and they want you to jump through too many almost impossible hoops, and then they can still turn you down and keep your money.

Precisely what I'm thinking is the case here. Avoid any and all potential hints of wrongful death lawsuits by first being really vague about who can be accepted, then receive payment, then deny service. Then they can't be sued for taking your money because the money is in the form of a "mandatory donation"/"fee for joining our society" or whatever instead of payment for services.

Pegasos reserves the right to refuse service for any reason

Ok, I suppose this makes sense too. But wouldn't it be helpful to dispel any negative press by explicitly stating what their eligibility requirements are? I mean, if people accuse them of killing young healthy people, they could retaliate by specifying what age determines eligibility. Lack of information helps nobody.

 

[Foreverix]

But wouldn't it be helpful to dispel any negative press by explicitly stating what their eligibility requirements are? I mean, if people accuse them of killing young healthy people, they could retaliate by specifying what age determines eligibility. Lack of information helps nobody.

On the site they simply say anyone who is over 18 can become a supporter. They also say you don't need to be sick, and those who are deemed of sound mind can apply. But, as was said before, they choose who they work with.

Retaliation against media does little, and probably wouldn't improve their image. They're a VAD clinic, it's already a losing PR battle. Remaining silent, on the other hand, tells me they're not interested in the media. As far as not providing very clear, strict guidelines: if you can only apply as a supporter, it seems to me they want as many adults to apply as possible to bring in monetary support. To be clear, this would be the CHF100 subscription, not the cost of the actual procedure.

So yeah, more ambiguous guidelines probably do help them in some areas. But railing against it is a futile waste of your time, and making fake emails to try and get information from them is a waste of their time as well.

Even if they were inhabiting the forum to sell their service to suicidal people, as you supposed, very few here are going to use VAD as a means. So very few people here are actually going to care. But what's more likely is that they're not on the forum, because that would jeopardize their work if it were found out, and they likely have enough folks contacting them already.

 

[randal_bond]

Isn't "being handicapped" something that could cause serious suffering? "Suffering" seems really subjective here. Does suffering only refer to physical pain? If you had a disease where you shit yourself every time you moved your legs, would this be okay because at least there's no physical pain? Whatever, I understand your point to an extent.

Precisely what I'm thinking is the case here. Avoid any and all potential hints of wrongful death lawsuits by first being really vague about who can be accepted, then receive payment, then deny service. Then they can't be sued for taking your money because the money is in the form of a "mandatory donation"/"fee for joining our society" or whatever instead of payment for services.

Ok, I suppose this makes sense too. But wouldn't it be helpful to dispel any negative press by explicitly stating what their eligibility requirements are? I mean, if people accuse them of killing young healthy people, they could retaliate by specifying what age determines eligibility. Lack of information helps nobody.

I understand your frustration very well. But being vague does help because it's open to interpretation. That's what politicians do all the time with great success. I know it's not what one may want, but I also would go to great lengths to protect myself from being sued. I actually am doing it already in an area that brings me income. I don't tell open lies but I am not open about my criteria of choice, either. It does help a lot against being accused of discrimination and of being sued. These days you need to be v. careful about what you say. Freedom of speech doesn't exist as long as you can be punished for it. And I am talking about so-called democratic countries here.
Again, understand your frustration well. I hate this oily, shifty behaviour. But it can't be helped, you just play by the rules that are in place.

 

[Meditation guide]

i think the biggest reason i gave up on this reason was the psych exams. it's a long flight for me, i don't trust psychiatrists. will not fly out there for an exam.

You also have to get your own psychiatric exam certifying that you are 100% sane. How do you ask a psychiatrist to give you that? For what reason? And I am sure they would find some reason to say you have a mental illness.

 

[RUPA]

Is this the place the 2 very healthy sisters who I believe were drs & paid to be put to sleep?

yes it is Two Arizona sisters, a doctor and a nurse, used Pegasos' VAD

i think the biggest reason i gave up on this reason was the psych exams. it's a long flight for me, i don't trust psychiatrists. will not fly out there for an exam.

only if you specify the main reason to want assisted death is mental issues
you can't do the psych exam online?

 

[reborn87]

also interested in pegasos. Anyone know of getting accepted here ? besides those two sisters.

 

[inaminute]

I believe there was a story with a girl who had unimaginable suffering from her borderline personality disorder succumbed at dignitas

The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors

In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bobcat01]

Anyone know they've accepted people with PSSD?