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- Oct 13, 2023
- 75
I have a great interest in these topics but I just don't have the mental fortitude at the moment to get flamed. I'll just enjoy from the sidelines.
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well I asked why it's our responsibility to fund others countries wars? What is the point of governments if the US just has to foot the bill for every war in the world? Don't governments budget for this?can you calm down?
what you're doing by going back and forth is becoming argumentative and single handedly derailing this thread. it prevents the conversation from being productive and stops it from pushing forward.
quit being provocative. @The Eeyorish One mentioned where they stand on the matter and so did you. if you disagree, simply disengage, especially if you "don't care" as said, instead of trying to argue and start flame-wars.
Asking valid questions is now "flaming" if you lack the ability to answer them.I have a great interest in these topics but I just don't have the mental fortitude at the moment to get flamed. I'll just enjoy from the sidelines.
I wasn't referring to you but with political discourse in general because clearly people get very emotionally charged over these topics. It's okay buddy, justAsking valid questions is now "flaming" if you lack the ability to answer them.
I wasn't referring to you but with political discourse in general because clearly people get very emotionally charged over these topics. It's okay buddy, just
Re-read what I said, I never asked for political discourse or insulted anyone or anything. You're either confused or you're just trying to attack anyone you see because you're having a bad day. I was never asked a question about anything.Ok, you claim to want political discourse yet can't answer a single question.
Then post memes to show us how virtuous you are that you wont answer questions.
My very first post had like ten questions in it that were completely ignored to repeat a narrative I've already heard.Re-read what I said, I never asked for political discourse or insulted anyone or anything. You're either confused or you're just trying to attack anyone you see because you're having a bad day. I was never asked a question about anything.
I have heard this opinion 1 million times.It's not America's responsibility to 'foot the bill for every war in the world'...
It doesn't. It only ever gets involved out of self-interest. Like other nations, really. Don't tell me Vietnam was out of some compassion and not the 'domino effect' concept. And let's not talk about Allende etc.
And because it is so multi-cultural anyway, it has ties to many nations. It's going to be inevitable - unless an isolationist policy is pursued, which is not in US economic interests.
The point you make about 9/11 is rather moot. Other nations have support the US in certain situations. And why was America attacked in the first place?
America has sided with Israel for a long time. Your country is involved, like it or not. You don't have to care. But calling others sheep because they don't see it the same way is just you burying your head in the sand.
well I asked why it's our responsibility to fund others countries wars? What is the point of governments if the US just has to foot the bill for every war in the world?
What would Gaza or Israel ever done for you? What did Israel or Gaza do for us for 9/11?
Im the one having a discussion while your opinions are either Gaza good or Gaza Bad, Israel good or Israel bad.
Im not trying to start a flame war, I asked many valid questions that you are incapable of or refuse to answer.
Im the only one trying to have a discussion.
If any of your care so much why aren't you doing anything yourself besides virtue signaling on the internet to each other?
If y'all care so much why aren't you taking out loans and sending your own fucking money? Maybe you should add to your own deficit if you are so virtuous? You wont though because your a pussy who would rather make everyone pay for it.
Do people not understand we are in a deficit? How dumb are Americans? How dumb are you?
Sorry you lack the ability to think for yourself.
Why don't you send your own money to Gaza if you care so fucking much? Or do you just go around screaming this shit to show everyone how much virtue you have?
The self-interest narrative has been repeated many times.you aren't just asking questions though. you're trying to get your points across that comes off aggressive, even if it also shuts or puts the other person down.
each of these parts in your responses could have been left out. you don't need to make the other person feel like they're wrong or don't know what they're talking about for you to get your point across.
the way you're choosing to have a discussion will lead to flame-wars and the thread being derailed. and that begs the question, well why do you feel that people are refusing to answer?
maybe it's because of how your responses are coming off. it isn't productive and what the other person is going to do is react to the tone of your responses versus tackling the question.
anyways, let's proceed.
i get your sentiments. why should we care? why is our money funding these wars?
currently, i think a lot of Americans feel that way. hence, the shift in attitude when discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict now versus in years past. people don't want to be dragged into another war and honestly, they aren't as stupid to be propagandized anymore and…. they're much more concerned with what's going on at home in the states (healthcare, quality of living, job market).
like @tiger b mentions above, whether you like it or not, your country is dragged into the conflict for their own self-interest. they could care less about how you feel on the matter. they have their own goals and objectives, especially when it comes to affairs in the Middle East regions and it's consequences politically on a macro-level.
the conversations you see today about the conflict isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be. it isn't just "Israeli good" or "Gaza bad". the conflict has always been much more complex than that and that's why we see the stark divide today on the matter.
this isn't the 2000s anymore. you can't just manufacture consent that easily and have the public support for another war (Iraq). there's a shift in opinion and people are fed up. they don't want to reap the consequences of living through another war.
so what do we do?
now, more and more people are resisting the Zionist regime and what it's been feeding us. people understand that this is a cycle of violence. there will always be conflict, resistance, war, and we innocent civilians will have to pay the price for it.
what these conversations you're seeing today revolve around is people being more focused on a solution and addressing the underlying root causes of the conflict, so that we can finally put an end to this cycle and move forward.
we want peace and an end in sight to a conflict. it's been 75 years too long and we aren't going to be dragged into another war. we also recognize that violence will always underpin an apartheid state, and as long as the occupation lives on, there will always be resistance and a chance of war, one that involves innocent people paying the price for it.
stop looking at it so black and white. if anything, you relate more to how the majority of people feel today about the conflict. however, you need to take a step back and understand the shift in opinion and why people feel that way.
Well you keep stating an opinion with providing no substance.'I have heard this opinion 1 million times.'
Could you be actually any more dismissive? I'll ignore your rudeness this time, maybe you are autistic or whatever, but if you've heard 'it' a million times, perhaps you should either lusten or go and do some research.
I could explain how having a stable region - you know, the region with most of the oil - would be in the biggest consumer of oil's national interest aka the good old US, but you seem intelligent, so I'm shocked you cannot grasp this.
Why should my inflation and groceries be affected by the American sub-prime market crash in 2008?? Just because Americans can't manage their economics properly??
See how stupid that is. Things are far more intertwined than you imagine - especially with economics. And America are the chief economic exploiters of them all, so don't cry when the chickens come home to roost.
Might as annihilate all of humanity if we feel that way.I feel sorry for the uninvolved civilians on both sides, and it would be nice if a peaceful resolution could happen. But I don't think they're going to quit fighting, and I don't think I'd really care if both nations were mutually destroyed.
Can you explain how Israel is within our national interest or how it's fall would be detrimental to the US?
Im not saying they shouldn't attack Gaza but we already provide them with billions of dollars a year. They already have their own military.
By just letting people defend themselves and their own way of life we should annihilate all of humanity?Might as annihilate all of humanity if we feel that way.
Not that that would be that unpopular an idea here.
Israel isn't going anywhere anyways.
If we should be so worried about oil then why aren't we producing more ourselves? So oil in another country halfway around the earth is in our self-interest but oil here in the states isn't? Israel isn't an oil producing country and has no infrastructure. How does saying it would affect us economically even make sense.I'm not sure what you mean by 'keep stating'.
What substance do you require?
The wider issue is very rational fears that the oil-producing countries - which support Palestine - will be sucked into the conflict. If you know your history, particularly the 1970s, you will know that this will have economic consequences, for the US.
You don't have to believe me, just go and study history. It should answer the questions you ask, as your tone is disgustingly rude and respectfully, if you have genuine interest you'll get the answers you seek, as perhaps it's beyond us mortals. I wish you well.
i think this sentiment highlights the new stage that we're at regarding the conflict.A lot of members are too young to appreciate the extensive history behind the hostilities. Or that Israel has been sidestepping accusations of war crimes for decades. Of course, nothing ever comes of it, because they hide behind the mighty American war machine. It's also worth noting the countless human rights atrocities committed by Mossad.
I'm not saying Hammas is vindicated, but take a good look at the decimation of Palestine and her people. Then consider how you would respond if your homeland and loved ones were subjected to 80 years of such treatment.
Of course, nobody can say for sure, but one possible explanation for America's unwavering support of Israel could be guilt/shame, due to the boat loads of Jewish refugees they turned away from their shores following WWII.
Frankly, it's high time the US invested in their own back yard and addressed the needs of US citizens. The illegal invasion of Iraq has permitted the Islamic state to take root and establish a foothold that's gaining strength and loyalty worldwide. Overthrowing Saddam Hussein had far reaching implications, clearing the way for the return to a caliphate and a medieval power structure.
Western arms delivered to the Afghani Mujahedeen 40 years ago were turned on US troops 20 years later. $2.3 trillion and an (conservatively) estimated 243,000 lives later, the people of Afghanistan are more oppressed than ever. It's believed that the US has killed more than 20 million people in 37 countries since the end of WWII.
Source: more than 20 million dead
Whatever your opinion of the situation between Israel and Palestine, it's hard to imagine that the involvement of Western forces will be any more beneficial than it was elsewhere in the middle east.
There are no winners in war.
i mentioned this in another thread, but for the Palestinian coalition forces, the purpose was to revolt.One thing in particular puzzles me.
Hamas surely must have known, through history, that such an attack on Israel would result in massive (and I generally see as over-the-top) retaliation.
Yet they did it.
Was this an attempt to widen the conflict, to involve other states who were starting to engage Israel more? Propaganda purposes?
I am sure they would have put quite a bit of thought to any consequences.
I abhor the initial attack made towards Israel recently which has started this latest round of violence, but the response seems sadly predictable and unjustified on behalf of a people who know what systemic genocide feels like. I hope for peace.
I think there are some winners (Arms industry)A lot of members are too young to appreciate the extensive history behind the hostilities. Or that Israel has been sidestepping accusations of war crimes for decades. Of course, nothing ever comes of it, because they hide behind the mighty American war machine. It's also worth noting the countless human rights atrocities committed by Mossad.
I'm not saying Hammas is vindicated, but take a good look at the decimation of Palestine and her people. Then consider how you would respond if your homeland and loved ones were subjected to 80 years of such treatment.
Of course, nobody can say for sure, but one possible explanation for America's unwavering support of Israel could be guilt/shame, due to the boat loads of Jewish refugees they turned away from their shores following WWII.
Frankly, it's high time the US invested in their own back yard and addressed the needs of US citizens. The illegal invasion of Iraq has permitted the Islamic state to take root and establish a foothold that's gaining strength and loyalty worldwide. Overthrowing Saddam Hussein had far reaching implications, clearing the way for the return to a caliphate and a medieval power structure.
Western arms delivered to the Afghani Mujahedeen 40 years ago were turned on US troops 20 years later. $2.3 trillion and an (conservatively) estimated 243,000 lives later, the people of Afghanistan are more oppressed than ever. It's believed that the US has killed more than 20 million people in 37 countries since the end of WWII.
Source: more than 20 million dead
Whatever your opinion of the situation between Israel and Palestine, it's hard to imagine that the involvement of Western forces will be any more beneficial than it was elsewhere in the middle east.
There are no winners in war.
A lot of members are too young to appreciate the extensive history behind the hostilities. Or that Israel has been sidestepping accusations of war crimes for decades. Of course, nothing ever comes of it, because they hide behind the mighty American war machine. It's also worth noting the countless human rights atrocities committed by Mossad
Good point about the beneficiaries of warfare. That's what forever wars are all about.I think there are some winners (Arms industry)
You are right, Operation Cyclone was probably the most well-known op. sending Stinger Surface to Air manpads to the mujahideen, doing everything from Maktab al Khidamat (guess where, why and with whom?)
also the The brits did a very good job indeed with their extensive network of "special reconaissance services" Indeed a very interesting point would take all the way back from the sykes-picot accord, then the balfour declaration,
if people really keep forgetting history, there's no point in asking "whether lightning strikes twice at the same spot"