Pale blue dot.

[BlackPoppet]

I thought I'd post this by Carl Sagan. I think it's a very important message.
Tell me what you think.

 

[Jon86]

It's good, I remember being obsessed with it and The Universe series around a decade ago.

We are all just a bunch of monkeys running around on a tiny dot within a vast, ever expanding cosmos that's so ridiculously large it could be described as near infinite.

It definitely, puts it into perspective how 'small' and perhaps 'insignificant' our existence really is.

 

[Erdapfel]

The universe is infinite in both small and large.

 

[BlackPoppet]

It's good, I remember being obsessed with it and The Universe series around a decade ago.

We are all just a bunch of monkeys running around on a tiny dot within a vast, ever expanding cosmos that's so ridiculously large it could be described as near infinite.

It definitely, puts it into perspective how 'small' and perhaps 'insignificant' our existence really is.

Yes very true. I'm a Panthiest. Well I'm Pagan and Pantheistic/Polytheistic. I believe that nature / god... who to me is nature, exists with in the universe. Some people are Panentheistic and that means that they believe that nature/ god exists outside of the universe.
We are minute in this cosmos and yet we try and dominate nature. Nature is the totality of everything that exists. It's laughable how we think we are better and more powerful than nature. Humans are megalomaniacs. Thank you for your comment. You are correct. I'm also an animist with my Pagan faith. To me every thing has a soul or spirit. Trees, rocks etc.

The universe is infinite in both small and large.

Yes and us humans are insignificant to the universe. The Universe will still be here, when we are gone. That's how powerful nature is.

 

[Erdapfel]

I wonder where the universe is going to.

 

[Epsilon0]

Classic!

 

[BlackPoppet]

Classic!

I love Carl Sagan! He is good at explaining and understanding the Human condition, whilst being an Astronomer!! He's awesome!!

 

[Epsilon0]

I love Carl Sagan! He is good at explaining and understanding the Human condition, whilst being an Astronomer!! He's awesome!!

Yes, I agree. His book "Cosmos" is the perfect introduction to astronomy. And that voice... could sell sand in the desert.

 

[Jean Améry]

Carl Sagan was a truly great man and a light in the darkness for humankind. Unfortunately beautiful, poetic and true as his message is it's preaching to the choir and it will likely never reach those who need it the most.

His spirit soared among the stars and his ideals were likewise: the brother- and sisterhoofd of humanity, eternal peace, respect for the environment and all life on earth, freedom and equality for all...

Sagan is one of the few people I admire: his humanity and civility far surpassed even his impressive intellect. I felt sad when I learned of his death when I never even met the man.

He would certainly avert his eyes in horror at what is happening in the world now, especially in his own country where a mad dictator is preparing to unleash the military against his own people. All to grafity his own ego. Sagan is the complete opposite of Trump: highly intelligent, high-minded, curious, egoless, caring, humane, peaceful, cultured, altruistic... In a way I sullied his name by comparing him to Trump.

It is however appropriate in the context of Sagan's own words: "... every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization..."

Thanks to the OP for reminding me of him, especially in these dark times and on a forum that is understandably rather dark and despondent.

This reminds me of Pascal:

"Man is a reed, the weakest thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the entire universe arm itself to crush him: a vapor, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But if the universe were to crush him, man would still be nobler than what kills him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe knows nothing of this."

The universe is great indeed but we, in our own way, are great too. Hower small, insignificant and temporary we are. It's a message of hope from one of the greatest pessimists in history.

 

[BlackPoppet]

I wonder where the universe is going to.

It's all in Homer Simpson.

Carl Sagan was a truly great man and a light in the darkness for humankind. Unfortunately beautiful, poetic and true as his message is it's preaching to the choir and it will likely never reach those who need it the most.

His spirit soared among the stars and his ideals were likewise: the brother- and sisterhoofd of humanity, eternal peace, respect for the environment and all life on earth, freedom and equality for all...

Sagan is one of the few people I admire: his humanity and civility far surpassed even his impressive intellect. I felt sad when I learned of his death when I never even met the man.

He would certainly avert his eyes in horror at what is happening in the world now, especially in his own country where a mad dictator is preparing to unleash the military against his own people. All to grafity his own ego. Sagan is the complete opposite of Trump: highly intelligent, high-minded, curious, egoless, caring, humane, peaceful, cultured, altruistic... In a way I sullied his name by comparing him to Trump.

It is however appropriate in the context of Sagan's own words: "... every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization..."

Thanks to the OP for reminding me of him, especially in these dark times and on a forum that is understandably rather dark and despondent.

This reminds me of Pascal:

"Man is a reed, the weakest thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the entire universe arm itself to crush him: a vapor, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But if the universe were to crush him, man would still be nobler than what kills him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe knows nothing of this."

The universe is great indeed but we, in our own way, are great too. Hower small, insignificant and temporary we are. It's a message of hope from one of the greatest pessimists in history.

I'm glad you like it Jean!! I had to post it to remind everyone that the great Carl Sagan has this message for us all!! I hope it can give some reassurance to all of us. I know that it reassures me. Peace, love and light!

 

[Epsilon0]

Carl Sagan was a truly great man and a light in the darkness for humankind. Unfortunately beautiful, poetic and true as his message is it's preaching to the choir and it will likely never reach those who need it the most.

His spirit soared among the stars and his ideals were likewise: the brother- and sisterhoofd of humanity, eternal peace, respect for the environment and all life on earth, freedom and equality for all...

Sagan is one of the few people I admire: his humanity and civility far surpassed even his impressive intellect. I felt sad when I learned of his death when I never even met the man.

He would certainly avert his eyes in horror at what is happening in the world now, especially in his own country where a mad dictator is preparing to unleash the military against his own people. All to grafity his own ego. Sagan is the complete opposite of Trump: highly intelligent, high-minded, curious, egoless, caring, humane, peaceful, cultured, altruistic... In a way I sullied his name by comparing him to Trump.

It is however appropriate in the context of Sagan's own words: "... every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization..."

Thanks to the OP for reminding me of him, especially in these dark times and on a forum that is understandably rather dark and despondent.

This reminds me of Pascal:

"Man is a reed, the weakest thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the entire universe arm itself to crush him: a vapor, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But if the universe were to crush him, man would still be nobler than what kills him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe knows nothing of this."

The universe is great indeed but we, in our own way, are great too. Hower small, insignificant and temporary we are. It's a message of hope from one of the greatest pessimists in history.

I love that quote by Pascal!!!!

I read that he had a mystical experience that changed him profoundly (I think he was on his way somewhere in a coach when it happened). He was so moved by the intensity of the religious revelation that he wrote it down the moment he came home, and sewed the paper it insise his coat, so as to always have it with him.

 

[BlackPoppet]

Carl Sagan was a truly great man and a light in the darkness for humankind. Unfortunately beautiful, poetic and true as his message is it's preaching to the choir and it will likely never reach those who need it the most.

His spirit soared among the stars and his ideals were likewise: the brother- and sisterhoofd of humanity, eternal peace, respect for the environment and all life on earth, freedom and equality for all...

Sagan is one of the few people I admire: his humanity and civility far surpassed even his impressive intellect. I felt sad when I learned of his death when I never even met the man.

He would certainly avert his eyes in horror at what is happening in the world now, especially in his own country where a mad dictator is preparing to unleash the military against his own people. All to grafity his own ego. Sagan is the complete opposite of Trump: highly intelligent, high-minded, curious, egoless, caring, humane, peaceful, cultured, altruistic... In a way I sullied his name by comparing him to Trump.

It is however appropriate in the context of Sagan's own words: "... every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization..."

Thanks to the OP for reminding me of him, especially in these dark times and on a forum that is understandably rather dark and despondent.

This reminds me of Pascal:

"Man is a reed, the weakest thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. It is not necessary that the entire universe arm itself to crush him: a vapor, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But if the universe were to crush him, man would still be nobler than what kills him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage that the universe has over him, the universe knows nothing of this."

The universe is great indeed but we, in our own way, are great too. Hower small, insignificant and temporary we are. It's a message of hope from one of the greatest pessimists in history.

Nature and the universe are neutral, that's why it knows nothing of this, it knows nothing of the advantage it has over man, because it is completely neutral, nature isn't good or bad, it just is. To know this and just to be a part of this is comforting and humbling to me. To be part of the cycle of life is a privilege. This is all I need.

 

[Jean Améry]

I read that he had a mystical experience that changed him profoundly (I think he was on his way somewhere in a coach when it happened). He was so moved by the intensity of the religious revelation that he wrote it down the moment he came home, and sewed the paper it insise his coat, so as to always have it with him.

That is correct. Mysticism is often scoffed at but to me it's simply the penetrating, overwhelming feeling of something infinitely greater than oneself and what is greater than the universe/nature itself?

Imo it's much more rational than religion especially the ones who presuppose some kind of personal god/s.

In the end our ego is largely illusory and doesn't mean much. Such experiences hammer that home. I used to meditate and the same realization dawned on me. The same with great art: the awe you feel then obliterates the ego, however temporary the experience. In Plato's terminology: it allows you to see the Idea itself, not just a concrete manifestation of it.

There is truth in the buddhist notion that suffering is largely (though not exclusively) tied to the ego. At least mental suffering.

Nature and the universe are neutral, that's why it knows nothing of this, it knows nothing of the advantage it has over man, because it is completely neutral, nature isn't good or bad, it just is. To know this and just to be a part of this is comforting and humbling to me. To be part of the cycle of life is a privilege. This is all I need.

Amen to that.

 

[BlackPoppet]

Yes, I agree. His book "Cosmos" is the perfect introduction to astronomy. And that voice... could sell sand in the desert.

Yes I have the book. It's priceless to me!

 

[Epsilon0]

That is correct. Mysticism is often scoffed at but to me it's simply the penetrating, overwhelming feeling of something infinitely greater than oneself and what is greater than the universe/nature itself?

Imo it's much more rational than religion especially the ones who presuppose some kind of personal god/s.

In the end our ego is largely illusory and doesn't mean much. Such experiences hammer that home. I used to meditate and the same realization dawned on me. The same with great art: the awe you feel then obliterates the ego, however temporary the experience. In Plato's terminology: it allows you to see the Idea itself, not just a concrete manifestation of it.

There is truth in the buddhist notion that suffering is largely (though not exclusively) tied to the ego. At least mental suffering.



Amen to that.

I will see if I can find online Pascal's letter where he talks about that one moment that forever altered his life.

 

[Jean Améry]

Yes I have the book. It's priceless to me!

I haven't read the book but the TV-series based on the book is quite awesome. The visuals were quite good, especially for that time. The great boon however is his voice. I could listen to him for hours.

 

[Epsilon0]

@Jean Améry

Here it is, Pascal calls is the Night of fire, and it took place in 1654. Seeing it gives me shivers down my spine.

+

L'an de grâce 1654.​

Lundi 23 novembre, jour de saint Clément pape et martyr et autres au martyrologe.

Veille de saint Chrysogone martyr et autres.

Depuis environ dix heures et demi du soir jusques environ minuit et demi.

Feu

Dieu d'Abraham, Dieu d'Isaac, Dieu de Jacob...​

 

[BlackPoppet]

That is correct. Mysticism is often scoffed at but to me it's simply the penetrating, overwhelming feeling of something infinitely greater than oneself and what is greater than the universe/nature itself?

Imo it's much more rational than religion especially the ones who presuppose some kind of personal god/s.

In the end our ego is largely illusory and doesn't mean much. Such experiences hammer that home. I used to meditate and the same realization dawned on me. The same with great art: the awe you feel then obliterates the ego, however temporary the experience. In Plato's terminology: it allows you to see the Idea itself, not just a concrete manifestation of it.

There is truth in the buddhist notion that suffering is largely (though not exclusively) tied to the ego. At least mental suffering.



Amen to that.

Although within my Pagan belief I do revere multiple Gods. The Celtic pantheon. Also the horned god Herne/Cernunnos and Diana of the moon, as well as believing that nature is " God"
I do not worship the Gods but I do revere them. I do not worship nature, but I do revere it. Reverence to me is more respectful than blind worship. I do not gender the earth eg ... " Mother Nature " because it has masculine aspects too. ( the Sun) I call the earth and nature " it" instead. Nature can give you life and it can also gobble you up too. Nature to me is the ultimate God. I believe the gods that I revere were here all along. They could even be elevated Spirits. This is my personal belief and other British isles Pagans too. I like to keep it simple, rational and practical. This planet and the Universe is the ultimate perfection, you couldn't get anything more perfect. Peace!!

I haven't read the book but the TV-series based on the book is quite awesome. The visuals were quite good, especially for that time. The great boon however is his voice though. I could listen to him for hours.

Yes his voice is magnetic and captivating. It's as if he knows the secret of life and is very philosophical about it. He explains it in a way we can all understand.

 

[Jean Améry]

Here it is, Pascal calls is the Night of fire, and it took place in 1654. Seeing it gives me shivers down my spine.

It reminds me somewhat of the story of Mozes and the burning bush. It is indeed quite powerful.

Of course the true experience was his and his alone: we will never (fully) get it.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Nature and the universe are neutral, that's why it knows nothing of this, it knows nothing of the advantage it has over man, because it is completely neutral, nature isn't good or bad, it just is. To know this and just to be a part of this is comforting and humbling to me. To be part of the cycle of life is a privilege. This is all I need.

It's good that you find this comforting. It bloody terrifies me! I've lost count of the number of times I've told people that nature doesn't give a shit what they think or even that they are offended by me saying so. I guess my Catholic upbringing has created a dissonance with how I now see things.

 

[BlackPoppet]

It's good that you find this comforting. It bloody terrifies me! I've lost count of the number of times I've told people that nature doesn't give a shit what they think or even that they are offended by me saying so. I guess my Catholic upbringing has created a dissonance with how I now see things.

I guess it's my particular Pagan branch of belief that has reconciled me with this mode of thinking that I have. It has also scared me in the past before I was Pagan, we've all been scared of the fact that nature might not care about us. But now for me nature does care because it's given me a chance to be born, a chance to live and a chance to exist. Even though in the grand scheme of things I am an amoeba to nature and the universe. I'm just a life form. But I am also nature. We are all connected, we have that divine spark. We are all nature. However I do not believe it is my parent. It is more than that. It is omnipresent, omnipotent and the ultimate life giver and taker. It birthed me and it will claim me in the end. I'm ok with that. I'm at peace with it.

 

[Pale Blue Dot]

I freaked out for a sec because the title of the thread and my username are the same. Thought you reported me to the forum for some reason for a very short time, I clicked on, and it wasn't. Phew.

I felt kinda shame of using this username after I read this thread. I guess I don't deserve it, I honestly don't know anything about "this subject". Lol. I just like the few quotes and statements he made.
Love to watch this kind of discussions and conversations tho! Thanks for posting, please keep up with it!

 

[Jean Améry]

I felt kinda shame of using this username after I read this thread.

Don't be. Why should you be ashamed? I doubt Sagan would have been offended . More like the contrary.

 

[BlackPoppet]

I freaked out for a sec because the title of the thread and my username are the same. Thought you reported me to the forum for some reason for a very short time, I clicked on, and it wasn't. Phew.

I felt kinda shame of using this username after I read this thread. I guess I don't deserve it, I honestly don't know anything about "this subject". Lol. I just like the few quotes and statements he made.
Love to watch this kind of discussions and conversations tho! Thanks for posting, please keep up with it!

Oh wow what a coincidence!! Sorry if I scared you. Your user name is cool. Don't worry. You are most welcome, I hope to inspire and give food for thought to everyone here. I want to comfort people. I love Philosophy and astronomy and I thought this message by Carl Sagan would give hope to people. People here on this forum deserve some positivity. I love you all and I hope this message gives comfort to all here. Peace!

Don't be. Why should you be ashamed? I doubt Sagan would have been offended . More like the contrary.

Agreed!!

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

It's good, I remember being obsessed with it and The Universe series around a decade ago.

We are all just a bunch of monkeys running around on a tiny dot within a vast, ever expanding cosmos that's so ridiculously large it could be described as near infinite.

It definitely, puts it into perspective how 'small' and perhaps 'insignificant' our existence really is.

Yeah this pale blue dot is insignificant imo. Just the nearest stars are so crazy far away that it's unimaginable . This video shows that just how unimaginably far the nearest stars are (well except the Sun 93 million miles).


Also to me the expansion of the universe is accelerating. The expansion of the universe seems to be getting exponential.

A few questions though. About the big bang. What created the big bang. What if anything was there before it? How could the universe have been so small and expand so fast in the big bang?

 

[BlackPoppet]

Yeah this pale blue dot is insignificant imo. Just the nearest stars are so crazy far away that it's unimaginable . This video shows that just how unimaginably far the nearest stars are (well except the Sun 93 million miles).


Also to me the expansion of the universe is accelerating. The expansion of the universe seems to be getting exponential.

A few questions though. About the big bang. What created the big bang. What if anything was there before it? How could the universe have been so small and expand so fast in the big bang?

I call it " Order out of Chaos"
Some one said to me once that we were all made of Stars!! Does anyone else believe this?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

This is what happens when you get the Enterprise stuck in reverse...

And that's just the observable universe.
Just for perspective...

Think 10, 11, 23 fractal dimensions, oh my!

This is so much cooler than that other weird thread. I am incapable of faith, I just have...suspicions. but if I believe anything then it's this:
If we flew out to the ends of the entire universe, if we explored and understood everything, outwards and inwards, throughout time, if we knew how everything works... we'd still only really see a tiny fraction of a much larger pattern. Whatever we think we understand there is always so very much more.
For all I know, all of that may be a single thought in the mind of something ineffable.

 

[Epsilon0]

I call it " Order out of Chaos"
Some one said to me once that we were all made of Stars!! Does anyone else believe this?

It is not a question of belief. Heavy elements, i.e. heavier than hydrogen and helium, are indeed created inside stars. This is called nuclear fusion.

And really heavy elements such as gold require the temperature and pressure of a supernova explosion to be created.

Think of it this way: the gold ring on your finger was created by the death of a star.

Beautiful, right?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

It is not a question of belief. Heavy elements, i.e. heavier than hydrogen and helium, are indeed created inside stars. This is called nuclear fusion.

And really heavy elements such as gold require the temperature and pressure of a supernova explosion to be created.

Think of it this way: the gold ring on your finger was created by the death of a star.

Beautiful, right?

Yes, we are all simply stardust. It's where we came from and where we will return. The only real ingredients are time and entropy and this inexplicable tendancy for energy to organise itself into matter as a counterpoint to chaos.
If you try and look too closely or to far it leads to madness because it's ultimately paradoxical. Approaching a certain point, faith in something or other is the only viable attitude. Either that or absurdism.

 

[Epsilon0]

Yes, we are all simply stardust. It's where we came from and where we will return. The only real ingredients are time and entropy and this inexplicable tendancy for energy to organise itself into matter as a counterpoint to chaos.
If you try and look too closely or to far it leads to madness because it's ultimately paradoxical. Approaching a certain point, faith in something or other is the only viable attitude. Either that or absurdism.
View attachment 36729

Wow! I just realized this song came out 18 years ago. Has it been so long? Wooooow!