Pain, suicidality and this community

[GrumpyFrog]

nessie i have always liked you, you seem a reasonable understanding person, but to say we come here and that the vast majority of the posts consist of whining whinging and moaning is absolutely infuriating, and just insulting, way to go and invalidate the already invalidated, to be fair with you, there is plenty out there to whinge moan and whine about, in our own lives and the world around us, cost of living crisis anybody ?, rising energy bills anybody, just to skim the surface, of peeps want to moan whinge and moan then so be it, having a rant before you check out and laugh at then world is ok, but your remake is kinda insulting, i dont know if this is what you intended and frankly i dont care, many of us such as myself are merely here to find a method that isnt rediculous to access and then merely be gone, and fucked off out of it, but to say we moan whinge and whine here ?, really, i believe where ever there is people there is the possibility of toxicity, it is why i am reclusive, and limit interactions irl, this place is no exception, but to come on here and say oh yh see you guys you suicidal guys and gals, well quit ur bitching and moaning, rediculous, or at least that is how it comes across, i dont care for cliques or brownie points, i say my piece, here and in irl, i just want out of it, and i am assuming you and everybody else here does too, on some fundamental level, or else we wouldnt be here would we, these attitudes piss me off to no end, because it is what you get out there, a lack of empathy, but each to there own, cant be arsed to have it out with anybody on here, do enough of that out there, so maybe best just to leave it here, i expected better from you tho, what makes you so spesh to warrant preferential treatment then ?. havnt we had enough of those bs attitudes out there amongst the normies ?, cmon man your better than that, or at least i thought you was.

Let me clarify. I do not believe and didn't imply at any point that venting even very dark thoughts is wrong. I am sorry if that came off this way. My point was that people can be very vulnerable and suicidal, very much in pain, but not exactly "pro-death", and that I am worried that the environment is becoming hostile to them, and at the same time that if we become increasingly "pro-death" and aggressive towards the "normies" and accept it as our identity, we might soon not have a forum at all because people are already after us.
Honestly, I am sick and tired of being "the bigger person". How is it "preferential treatment" to think my pain is just as painful as anybody elses, that I have just as much right to be on here as anybody else? Is it "special treatment" to allow me to say anything other than offering empathy and validation to other people, if it is okay for other people to have no empathy for me?
I'll try to simplify it. My point wasn't that it is wrong to be negative to the max. My point was that I really don't think that people who are less negative about life in general are hurting less, that they aren't vulnerable and they aren't serious about CTB, don't really belong here or that anything they say outside of validating the feelings of others is said specifically to upset the "true suicidal" people, because they must be pro-lifers. I understand that for someone who has experienced severe anhedonia it might be baffling how it is possible to hurt terribly and long for death and make jokes or have hope at the same time, but it can happen.

 

[Cathy Ames]

nessie i have always liked you, you seem a reasonable understanding person, but to say we come here and that the vast majority of the posts consist of whining whinging and moaning is absolutely infuriating, and just insulting,

@ever so lonely , I believe you misread what @Nessie has said. As far as I can see, her ONLY use of the word "whining" was in reference to herself. Yikes.

This is a retelling of a post I made elsewhere then deleted because it was indicated as unwelcome and derailing the thread. I will try to make it work outside of the context, because while it might not be good for that discussion, I feel like I have something important to say. (Which doesn't happen often, most of my gazillion posts are just bitching, whining, and miscellaneous BS to be honest.)

 

[Rounded Agony]

If this thread and what it talks about has illuminated anything for me, it is that, just as some of us are already aware, the suicidal are certainly not a uniform group. In many ways.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

@ever so lonely , I believe you misread what @Nessie has said. As far as I can see, her ONLY use of the word "whining" was in reference to herself. Yikes.

Oh
Oooh.
So that's what happened. Oops. I was genuinely confused why the points I was making across the thread were interpreted like that. Now I got it, it is just the jab I made at myself at the start. I don't want to assume but I suppose the rest of the stuff that I was aggressively referring to wasn't referenced or, possibly, even read. And here I am freaking out about it. My bad, sorry. In that case, I guess none of my counterpoints made any sense.
Screw this. Maybe I truly am the only one here that is upset by this stuff. Maybe it doesn't really matter to anybody else and I made a lot of noise for no good reason. I apologize to whoever is upset by my opinion. I thought that someone might feel the way I do and need reassurance and that if people disagree then we need a discussion about this because I thought that having a discussion can help us understand each other better. I guess I was wrong and people might just not be interested in understanding, and that is okay too.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Oh
Oooh.
So that's what happened. Oops. I was genuinely confused why the points I was making across the thread were interpreted like that. Now I got it, it is just the jab I made at myself at the start. I don't want to assume but I suppose the rest of the stuff that I was aggressively referring to wasn't referenced or, possibly, even read. And here I am freaking out about it.

Yes, at the very least, there was one other instance where a commenter mischaracterized your agreement with someone else as your being "saddened by suicidal people's venting posts." I wasn't sure what was going on there, TBH. But I would ask you to PLEASE not freak out. For some reason, there are some weird things going on in this thread. It looks to me as though people are arguing against points you didn't actually make. [This is a common internet phenomenon. I've had it happen to me on multiple occasions, and probably done it myself as well.]

My bad, sorry. In that case, I guess none of my counterpoints made any sense.

I think what you are saying does make sense.

Screw this. Maybe I truly am the only one here that is upset by this stuff. Maybe it doesn't really matter to anybody else and I made a lot of noise for no good reason. I apologize to whoever is upset by my opinion. I thought that someone might feel the way I do and need reassurance and that if people disagree then we need a discussion about this because I thought that having a discussion can help us understand each other better. I guess I was wrong and people might just not be interested in understanding, and that is okay too.

It appeared to me that there ARE people here with similar feelings. As for people "being interested in understanding"... well, that's a rough one in these modern days. But people like that probably do exist... somewhere. I always appreciate your posts, @Nessie. You are unfailing kind. I wish I could be more like you.

 

[Pluto]

@ever so lonely , I believe you misread what @Nessie has said. As far as I can see, her ONLY use of the word "whining" was in reference to herself. Yikes.

Not only that, but Nessie herself spoke out in defence of people making 'downer' posts just recently.

Certain keywords and phrases can be emotionally-charged but we are hopefully able to discuss them calmly.

 

[Sad_Sack]

I never had the feeling someone gets pushed over the cliff here… the media covering this site as a death culture etc. is wrong

Exactly. Just because nobody here is flatly telling people to absolutely not ctb, nobody is pushing anyone either. Everyone seems to simply understand that we are all suffering pretty badly here and are understanding that suicide, in these circumstances, should remain on the table. I've honestly seen a lot of people telling people there is no need to rush their decision , me included. I haven't seen anyone outright tell someone they should ctb.

 

[theboy]

true

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I came to a conclusion that maybe the only real way to resolve all disagreements would be to have a separate platform for promortalists, antinatalists and all the other people who think a nuclear apocalypse would be a good thing where they can be heard, validated and not upset by "normies" who don't understand them - and a separate platform for all the other suicidal folks that just don't want the option of CTB to be taken away from them. This way everyone would have a safe space.
(And also maybe people that absolutely hate this website will finally learn the difference between the former and the latter).

I'm grateful to everyone who was able to find kind words. Thank you, much love.

 

[Chinaski]

I agree with Nessie's excellent posts in this thread. I disagree with the posts which do not agree with Nessie's excellent posts in this thread.

 

[odradek]

I think this is a great post @Nessie. I don't even partake in the so called "pro-life" discourse anymore as it borders on the absurd at times and very much otherizes anyone who disagrees.

I feel it should be acknowledged that we are all (mostly) suicidal vulnerable people but we are also all adults. People should be given the benefit of the doubt mostly but if you're going to put an opinion on here, be prepared for all that entails. We cannot be free from accountability.

Some wonder why the media gets the impression that this is a death cult? Maybe the fact that a posts like this get so much push back from the usual suspects who claim anyone who wants to live is delusional and anyone who wants to die is supremely rational.

Even if you're in your worst state ever, your words can still have consequences.

I'll just say, in my view, many users here suffer from a similar problem: their good faith attempts are subverted by their lack of ability to engage with the world outside of their own perspective. I find the suicidal, including myself, to be very narrow minded in some cases. This is frequently the root of conflicts here. Just my opinion tho.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I agree with Nessie's excellent posts in this thread. I disagree with the posts which do not agree with Nessie's excellent posts in this thread.

Finally, the mission of this thread accomplished - I got Chinaski's attention. My life is now complete, and I can take a break from low-quality shitposting on this website.
(too bad I had to make a compete ass of myself in the process, but I guess there was no other way to achieve it)

 

[Chinaski]

Finally, the mission of this thread accomplished - I got Chinaski's attention. My life is now complete, and I can take a break from low-quality shitposting on this website.
(too bad I had to make a compete ass of myself in the process, but I guess there was no other way to achieve it)

You're not the first to say this

 

[GrumpyFrog]

You're not the first to say this

What can I say, you're the true inspiration!
Now I'm curious who the other folks were so that I can know whether they embarrassed themselves just as much as I did.

 

[Chinaski]

What can I say, you're the true inspiration!
Now I'm curious who the other folks were so that I can know whether they embarrassed themselves just as much as I did.

Tbf it's not usually done with so much skill and effort, a simple "I've put that Chinaski asshole on ignore and l recommend u all do the same!!!!" would suffice.

 

[Rounded Agony]

Suddenly Nessie is a grumpy frog. Cool, I'll run with it.

I came to a conclusion that maybe the only real way to resolve all disagreements would be to have a separate platform for promortalists, antinatalists and all the other people who think a nuclear apocalypse would be a good thing where they can be heard, validated and not upset by "normies" who don't understand them - and a separate platform for all the other suicidal folks that just don't want the option of CTB to be taken away from them. This way everyone would have a safe space.
(And also maybe people that absolutely hate this website will finally learn the difference between the former and the latter).

I'm grateful to everyone who was able to find kind words. Thank you, much love.

This seems to be the way. I get the impression both from what some more longstanding members have said as well as content that lives on from days well before my time here that things were different; I think a great succinct example of this comes from the very end of the stickied post by @Meretlein (are they still around?):

"I am not pro suicide, I am pro voluntary life."

Also want to give my thanks to @GrumpyFrog, @rationaltake, @Pluto, @foxdieΩ, @Chinaski, and the others outside this thread who have helped me begin to feel as though I'm finding my niche in this place after three months of sharing it with y'all. Felt bad when it was down the other night and I fear what would happen if it were gone for good

 

[whatevs]

nessie i have always liked you, you seem a reasonable understanding person, but to say we come here and that the vast majority of the posts consist of whining whinging and moaning is absolutely infuriating, and just insulting, way to go and invalidate the already invalidated, to be fair with you, there is plenty out there to whinge moan and whine about, in our own lives and the world around us, cost of living crisis anybody ?, rising energy bills anybody, just to skim the surface, of peeps want to moan whinge and moan then so be it, having a rant before you check out and laugh at then world is ok, but your remake is kinda insulting, i dont know if this is what you intended and frankly i dont care, many of us such as myself are merely here to find a method that isnt rediculous to access and then merely be gone, and fucked off out of it, but to say we moan whinge and whine here ?, really, i believe where ever there is people there is the possibility of toxicity, it is why i am reclusive, and limit interactions irl, this place is no exception, but to come on here and say oh yh see you guys you suicidal guys and gals, well quit ur bitching and moaning, rediculous, or at least that is how it comes across, i dont care for cliques or brownie points, i say my piece, here and in irl, i just want out of it, and i am assuming you and everybody else here does too, on some fundamental level, or else we wouldnt be here would we, these attitudes piss me off to no end, because it is what you get out there, a lack of empathy, but each to there own, cant be arsed to have it out with anybody on here, do enough of that out there, so maybe best just to leave it here, i expected better from you tho, what makes you so spesh to warrant preferential treatment then ?. havnt we had enough of those bs attitudes out there amongst the normies ?, cmon man your better than that, or at least i thought you was.

Paragraphs go a long way in making posts readable, skeleton man.