Nonexistence by definition is not a thing. You won't spend an eternity in nothingness because there won't be you. For anyone there is only life.

[Cookiecarver]

Like Epicurus said:

"Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"

For anyone there exists at best only the cognitive awareness of death, the deaths of others and the anticipation of death, for example for people committing suicide by hanging the agonizing moments when the whole weight of your body is supported by your neck and jaw while possibly gasping for air until you pass out and go to the equivalent of dreamless sleep.

Epicurus didn't find this scary, but I personally think this is scary. For us there is only life.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I wonder how Epicurus could be sure that there is no after life. Had he access to the latest findings of brain research?

I guess survival instinct is the reason why we feel, that non existence is scary. This is not fair because we all will not exist anymore in the rather near future.

 

[little helpers]

yes this has always been how I see it. I don't know if I sound like a jerk saying this simply is the truth. but it's simple logic. and logic never fails.

 

[Cookiecarver]

I wonder how Epicurus could be sure that there is no after life. Had he access to the latest findings of brain research?

I guess survival instinct is the reason why we feel, that non existence is scary. This is not fair because we all will not exist anymore in the rather near future.

yes this has always been how I see it. I don't know if I sound like a jerk saying this simply is the truth. but it's simple logic. and logic never fails.

That said, I'm still open to the possibility of an afterlife because I don't think of myself as omniscient.

 

[demuic]

The afterlife is a man made concept. Do you think animals worry about an afterlife?

 

[Lost Magic]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change from one form to another. This is the first law of thermodynamics. The human contains an enormous amount of energy so (like it or not) there is a good chance that energy transcends. I myself am agnostic but I do research based on science and spiritual matters as a passing interest. Truth, is we have no control over the afterlife or lack thereof. We will one day though, so until that time comes, we can merely speculate what happens next. Best just to be humble about it.

 

[Rational man]

I don't fear death but I did until I became ill. My fear became less when I accepted that we all do die. I cannot survive forever. Look at everyone in the malls or street and realise they too will be gone in less than 100 Years. I fear the process of dying but after that, who cares. Just my legacy remains.

 

[little helpers]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change from one form to another. This is the first law of thermodynamics. The human contains an enormous amount of energy so (like it or not) there is a good chance that energy transcends. I myself am agnostic but I do research based on science and spiritual matters as a passing interest. Truth, is we have no control over the afterlife or lack thereof. We will one day though, so until that time comes, we can merely speculate what happens next. Best just to be humble about it.

now consider the third law…entropy gets bigger unless you intervene.

the human body (well, every creature's body) runs on too low an entropy that once it cannot maintain its order, it crumbles down. back into a state of disorder, materially. life is sustained by taking in all that energy such that low entropy gets maintained. if you want that energy to go elsewhere then, yeah, you've practically just referred to death itself.

and that's "afterlife" as in "the life of them atoms and stuff after your/my/their life".

I may be an asshole but it's not me who asked to get "scientific". faith is not science and science can't be a faith.

 

[Lost Magic]

now consider the third law…entropy gets bigger unless you intervene.

the human body (well, every creature's body) runs on too low an entropy that once it cannot maintain its order, it crumbles down. back into a state of disorder, materially. life is sustained by taking in all that energy such that low entropy gets maintained. if you want that energy to go elsewhere then, yeah, you've practically just referred to death itself.

and that's "afterlife" as in "the life of them atoms and stuff after your/my/their life".

I may be an asshole but it's not me who asked to get "scientific". faith is not science and science can't be a faith.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at.

 

[little helpers]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at.

emmm. basically commenting on the "energy transcends" thingy. why it doesn't work (principally) on the level of science.

and I mean, it's not like I'm truly able to understand what you meant by your theory either. I commented in a way that I have understood to be what might make sense to you. and it didn't. I didn't expect myself to know exactly what anyone meant or they me though. because humans can't.
and it's a suicide/suicidality discussion forum. not a science forum.

but it's still a pleasure to know you.

 

[Lost Magic]

emmm. basically commenting on the "energy transcends" thingy. why it doesn't work (principally) on the level of science.

and I mean, it's not like I'm truly able to understand what you meant by your theory either. I commented in a way that I have understood to be what might make sense to you. and it didn't. I didn't expect myself to know exactly what anyone meant or they me though. because humans can't.

but it's still a pleasure to know you.

Well thermodynamics is a science and it clearly states that we are made up of energy as are all living things. The spiritual aspect would be what happens with that energy when it gives up the body. Does that energy just fizzle out or does it go into other realms? A lot of people are taking substances like DMT (which is naturally created in the human body in small doses). Many of those experiences have been described as nothing short of otherworldly. In fact some scientists say that it simulates the dying process. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/dd52796e-5935-414e-af0c-de9686d02afa

So what I am saying is, it is best to be humble and open minded about these matters because it is not a black and white case closed subject. We are talking about the greatest mystery known to man here haha. Anyway, good to know you too and I am always open to debate.

 

[FuneralCry]

I look forward to non existence as it is the end of me and it is the end of everything. There will be no more pain or suffering as I will be unable to experience anything. I do not understand how people fear non existence as there is nothing to fear. I find the thought of death to be very comforting.

 

[Lost Magic]

I look forward to non existence as it is the end of me and it is the end of everything. There will be no more pain or suffering as I will be unable to experience anything. I do not understand how people fear non existence as there is nothing to fear. I find the thought of death to be very comforting.

tbh, I have no problem with non existence and just sleeping forever with no more thinking or doing. However, I can't deny that there is a potential of an after life or a higher state of awareness after all this. There are countless stories of people dying and describing their surroundings in great detail and then being revived. Then there are the DMT stories on top of them that discuss unimaginable worlds. I really don't mind either ways because I don't have much control over what happens next anyway. Reincarnation is a hellish idea though. I would hate to keep coming back here time after time.

 

[Death is beautiful]

Nonexistence is just fine, I'm looking forward to it and I really hope that this is really what awaits us after death

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

It's the default position. You can look at a corpse and see that it doesn't travel anywhere.

You are right, if I destroy a puzzle nobody would think that the former assembled puzzle still exists in the afterlife of puzzles.

 

[Insomniac]

It's the default position. You can look at a corpse and see that it doesn't travel anywhere.

someone skipped all the philosophy classes

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

someone skipped all the philosophy classes

"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." (Irony intended).

 

[sighplus10]

isn't the process of dying thats scary, and not the end technically? although i guess some people can fear death since its p much the fear of the unknown.

for me personally i wish oblivion really is the result of death as thats the most preferred result for me. some people say life is a gift but i don't feel that way at all, so why would i want another go at it? same for heaven, there's no evidence for it so i can't say it would be all good either based on hearsay

 

[cambrai33]

Who cares, ultimately we will be forgotten about apart from some zombie like procession to visit our graves because it's the done thing. Outside of those times we never existed. If you want to think about energy we combust during cremation or if buried become food for the earth.

Ultimately we never mattered and never will, in life or in death

 

[Orchid_Passed]

but I personally think this is scary. For us there is only life.

I find it scary also. I find it kind of bizarre to think about. Every single being that has ever lived on earth or that is yet to be born will have to go through the experience of losing their life and consciousness, yet we can't comprehend non-existence whatsoever.

The only comfort I can find in this is that death is the great universal experience of all life. Even if it's terrifying to think about we will all eventually have to go through that.

 

[Snake of Eden]

The way i look at it that it is like someone hit the pause button. The last frame will freeze in time and you will only be able to feel again once the play button is pressed again

 

[little helpers]

Epicurus didn't find this scary, but I personally think this is scary. For us there is only life.

I thought about this for a while and decide to share some of my own experiences that closely resembles, or in a sense, is, death. I'm saying this under the assumption that you intend to get around your survival instinct a lil bit or is simply curious. I apologize if you weren't asking for it.

first one is the biggest one. overdosing. I've had my fair share of accidental ODs through the years (while none of my intentional ones worked out, dammit), and I can safely say, you won't know anything that happens there. I had zero idea of when I passed out, or that I had even passed out, after getting narcan'ed. to the bystander I was a human-sized smurf, and to me? don't ask me cuz I wasn't even there.
regaining consciousness comes so abruptly but was also taking forever. it's kind of like waking up from sleep paralysis. or emerging from water. I start to get that drowning feeling which had been non-existent as with my consciousness just moments ago, before my senses start come back, my brain functions getting booted one after the other.

but every time I wake up, I feel the OD happend a thousand years ago.

second one is losing time. it's not what happens daily, but still frequent enough for me to be scared. I've never been scared of starting to lose time, cuz I truly, really, don't know. but it's frightening every time I come back out. cuz I don't know what the hell has happened during this time.

all you know is life, yeah. exactly becuz you don't, and can't, know what's in your sleep.

 

[Ta555]

tbh, I have no problem with non existence and just sleeping forever with no more thinking or doing. However, I can't deny that there is a potential of an after life or a higher state of awareness after all this. There are countless stories of people dying and describing their surroundings in great detail and then being revived. Then there are the DMT stories on top of them that discuss unimaginable worlds. I really don't mind either ways because I don't have much control over what happens next anyway. Reincarnation is a hellish idea though. I would hate to keep coming back here time after time.

Near death experiences are not death so personally I think have absolutely nothing to base any conjecture of an afterlife on. These people were not brain-dead. All this NDE stuff is just hallucinations the brain goes through in a critical period when it's shutting down but not yet actually gone offline. No one has completely gone offline and come back to tell us about it. People with NDEs are usually those whose hearts have stopped but the brain is still functioning and they're resuscitated in time.
DMT, same thing. No one is dying. They are hallucinating. It doesn't matter how powerful the hallucination is, it's still a hallucination produced by a LIVING brain.
Where does the energy go if it can't be destroyed? From my understanding this is pretty basic science. The human body is chemical energy and that energy goes back into the earth as decomposers take care of your body. When you're dead no more oxygen is getting in and so your cells cannot perform their functions as oxygen is their fuel. They just cease to work and then are absorbed by decomposers, just like you absorb food in your gut.

 

[Lost Magic]

Near death experiences are not death so personally I think have absolutely nothing to base any conjecture of an afterlife on. These people were not brain-dead. All this NDE stuff is just hallucinations the brain goes through in a critical period when it's shutting down but not yet actually gone offline. No one has completely gone offline and come back to tell us about it. People with NDEs are usually those whose hearts have stopped but the brain is still functioning and they're resuscitated in time.
DMT, same thing. No one is dying. They are hallucinating. It doesn't matter how powerful the hallucination is, it's still a hallucination produced by a LIVING brain.
Where does the energy go if it can't be destroyed? From my understanding this is pretty basic science. The human body is chemical energy and that energy goes back into the earth as decomposers take care of your body. When you're dead no more oxygen is getting in and so your cells cannot perform their functions as oxygen is their fuel. They just cease to work and then are absorbed by decomposers, just like you absorb food in your gut.

All the things you said might be true and maybe we do go lights out after we die, but again maybe not. You seem to have taken the hard line atheist view (and that's fine). The way I see it is this: Science does not have all the answers. There are lots of unexplained phenomenons in the world and I think your views on DMT and near death experiences are simplistic. Why not try some DMT yourself? I have the herbs to make up ayahuasca, however, I haven't made the brew up yet. I think there is a lot more to the pineal gland than we think. Maybe this is all a dream (nightmare in a lot of cases) and we have yet to wake up? Or maybe we are just greedy and selfish creatures living in meat sacks. Who knows? But as of now, I will remain agnostic and curious. Hmm, maybe I should make up a batch of this stuff and see if it really is more than a hallucination. And if it is just that, then who cares. I will at least be experiencing something other than the four walls or Amazon Prime .

 

[Ta555]

All the things you said might be true and maybe we do go lights out after we die, but again maybe not. You seem to have taken the hard line atheist view (and that's fine). The way I see it is this: Science does not have all the answers. There are lots of unexplained phenomenons in the world and I think your views on DMT and near death experiences are simplistic. Why not try some DMT yourself? I have the herbs to make up ayahuasca, however, I haven't made the brew up yet. I think there is a lot more to the pineal gland than we think. Maybe this is all a dream (nightmare in a lot of cases) and we have yet to wake up? Or maybe we are just greedy and selfish creatures living in meat sacks. Who knows? But as of now, I will remain agnostic and curious. Hmm, maybe I should make up a batch of this stuff and see if it really is more than a hallucination. And if it is just that, then who cares. I will at least be experiencing something other than the four walls or Amazon Prime .

My views are not simplistic, they are logical and based on current science. You are the one who says there may be something supernatural or spiritual to DMT and so it's up to you to prove that. So far as science knows there is nothing supernatural, everything you experience is something the brain does. The brain is a physical organ made up of organic matter. Nothing mystical has been found about the brain or the pineal gland. A drug induced trip doesn't prove anything supernatural at all. All it proves is the brain has an amazing capacity for hallucination.

 

[Lost Magic]

My views are not simplistic, they are logical and based on current science. You are the one who says there may be something supernatural or spiritual to DMT and so it's up to you to prove that. So far as science knows there is nothing supernatural, everything you experience is something the brain does. The brain is a physical organ made up of organic matter. Nothing mystical has been found about the brain or the pineal gland. A drug induced trip doesn't prove anything supernatural at all. All it proves is the brain has an amazing capacity for hallucination.

Well According to personal accounts, a DMT trip is different to hallucinating on other drugs, such as psilocybin (mushrooms) or LSD, because it takes you some place completely different to this world, as opposed to modifying your relationship with the one you already exist in. What we are experiencing in this life might be a simulation and so therefore what we believe to be real (including the all mighty brain) might be the ultimate illusion or hallucination. Did you ever consider that you might be living in the what equates to the Matrix?

 

[Ta555]

Well According to personal accounts, a DMT trip is different to hallucinating on other drugs, such as psilocybin (mushrooms) or LSD, because it takes you some place completely different to this world, as opposed to modifying your relationship with the one you already exist in. What we are experiencing in this life might be a simulation and so therefore what we believe to be real (including the all mighty brain) might be the ultimate illusion or hallucination. Did you ever consider that you might be living in the what equates to the Matrix?

A DMT trip doesn't take you anywhere. Your body stays right here. And there's your key word 'personal accounts'. The weakest and most unreliable source of evidence. So what if the trip is different to other drugs? Maybe in the near future someone will discover a completely new drug that gives a completely new and different experience to DMT? Then what? It's still just the brain doing shit under influence.

 

[Lost Magic]

A DMT trip doesn't take you anywhere. Your body stays right here. And there's your key word 'personal accounts'. The weakest and most unreliable source of evidence. So what if the trip is different to other drugs? Maybe in the near future someone will discover a completely new drug that gives a completely new and different experience to DMT? Then what? It's still just the brain doing shit under influence.

Who created this marvellous intricate brain then? You wanna see how deep the rabbit hole goes? I see what pill you swallowed, but that's okay. Society likes people to stay in the box.

 

[ket]

oh yeah, isn't consciousness nuts? the things we put it through with various drugs and hardships and it's still ultimately the same sustained experience.

 

[Ta555]

Who created this marvellous intricate brain then? You wanna see how deep the rabbit hole goes? I see what pill you swallowed, but that's okay. Society likes people to stay in the box.

Who created this brain?? I'd have to say evolution but if you don't believe in science then I guess our conversation ends here. :) I also see what pill you swallowed.
Whatever, dead is dead. We're all on this forum for the same reason. I don't want any bad juju between me and anyone. We can agree to disagree. I hope you're doing ok and whatever happens I wish you the best on your journey.