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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Guys - how long can you stand after you exhale? My score is 60 sec
this is how much time I have to make everything right before I take my first sip of nitrogen. This will be less because off stress level.
I have an idea how to buy some time. Its additional tube in your mouth
[I will listen to the Dark side of the Moon and remove the tube when ready]
Your suggestion?
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I'd just delay email the police myself. Or someone else unless you have a 911 type email?
Good idea about emailing police! I will use it
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Another idea [third coffee tonight!]
I have this old fashion fireplace you can find in many British houses from early XX century.
I think I can strap my computer chair to it
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
I'd just delay email the police myself. Or someone else unless you have a 911 type email?

From the NSW Police website "Please be aware all attempts will be made to respond to e-mails directed to the Customer Assistance Unit within 7 days of receipt." doesn't seem like it'll be quick enough... hmmn. What if I was two hours from the nearest hospital, and called saying I had broken my leg or something so they didn't contact the police?

Guys - how long can you stand after you exhale? My score is 60 sec
this is how much time I have to make everything right before I take my first sip of nitrogen. This will be less because off stress level.
I have an idea how to buy some time. Its additional tube in your mouth
[I will listen to the Dark side of the Moon and remove the tube when ready]
Your suggestion?

What do you mean by additional tube in your mouth? And good choice on the album. I also plan to listen to it before I ctb.
 
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Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
What if I was two hours from the nearest hospital, and called saying I had broken my leg or something so they didn't contact the police.
That would still be way too risky for me. I'd find literally ANY other way to do it than calling anyone before the act. You don't know the lengths some do-gooders will go to.
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
From the NSW Police website "Please be aware all attempts will be made to respond to e-mails directed to the Customer Assistance Unit within 7 days of receipt." doesn't seem like it'll be quick enough... hmmn. What if I was two hours from the nearest hospital, and called saying I had broken my leg or something so they didn't contact the police?



What do you mean by additional tube in your mouth? And good choice on the album. I also plan to listen to it before I ctb.

You put the bag on, check it sits well on you neck, check gas flow - and still breath throu a tube in your mouth. Once you happy with setup you exhale the last time and pull it from your mouth and from the bag.

I m a big fan of PF since I was 16. Im glad you like it too.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
That would still be way too risky for me. I'd find literally ANY other way to do it than calling anyone before the act. You don't know the lengths some do-gooders will go to.

So it looks like NSW Police and NSW Ambulance don't have any email address, only forms that can be filled out. I did find an email address for the emergency number (000 in Australia, like 911 in America) but it states that it is only for enquiries about call records and is not associated with the emergency number at all. They might be able to do something if I sent them a delayed email but they might not.

The other idea I had was to activate an emergency beacon, like this one: https://www.fishingtackleshop.com.au/kti-epirb-gps-beacon.html
Of course in a remote location where it would take emergency services hours to get to me. But what if they sent a helicopter or something? I feel that it's a risk.

You put the bag on, check it sits well on you neck, check gas flow - and still breath throu a tube in your mouth. Once you happy with setup you exhale the last time and pull it from your mouth and from the bag.

I m a big fan of PF since I was 16. Im glad you like it too.

Ah I see. I was thinking of testing my mask by actually turning on the gas, sitting in my seat and basically doing everything as I would except instead of strapping the mask on just holding it against my face, so that when I lose consciousness I just drop it and wake up. Just to test how it feels and if the seal on the mask will be sufficient. Might waste a lot of gas though if I am out for a while.
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I will test my setup too. Few dry rides and see how much time I need to put things in place, cuff my arms with straps etc.
Im already shaking - thinking of it.

then I want to test my gas without a bag - any ideas?
I ordered large tank so I should have more gas than I really need.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
I will test my setup too. Few dry rides and see how much time I need to put things in place, cuff my arms with straps etc.
Im already shaking - thinking of it.

then I want to test my gas without a bag - any ideas?
I ordered large tank so I should have more gas than I really need.

You could do what I plan on doing and hold a mask against your face so that you drop it if you lose consciousness, but I am not really sure if it is a good idea or not. In theory it would take several minutes of hypoxia to kill any brain cells, but it'd still be risky to induce hypoxia even for a short time. I'm probably still gonna do it though haha
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Good point - is it really that risky as you say?
I was hoping to use it without bag and learn how it works. Maybe start from 5lpm and see how my body reacts and slowly go up untill I drop out. But now Im not sure.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Good point - is it really that risky as you say?
I was hoping to use it without bag and learn how it works. Maybe start from 5lpm and see how my body reacts and slowly go up untill I drop out. But now Im not sure.

Well, it'd be about as dangerous as being choked until you lost consciousness then being let go. People get choked out all the time and have no appreciable brain damage, but I'd still be careful and I wouldn't want to recommend it. Also you would need to make sure that when you lose consciousness you don't hit your head on anything.
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
What scares me about gas is how quickly it works. So the preparation and execution must be perfect first time.
I became sloppy and slow these days, too nervous and shaky for this task. I dont know how I will overcome it yet.

I would really prefer something where I could slowly submerge into the other side with some music, filled with favorite Incense, in bed. This will not happen.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
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1234dave

Specialist
Oct 5, 2018
369
From 42 min they discuss using nitrogen as the way of slaughtering pigs.
Animal lost conscious just in less than 10 seconds and it was not even connected to any machine, but entered confined space filled with gas.
do you have the other case studies please?
 
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azeton

Student
Jun 2, 2018
100
5 bar = 0,5 megaPascal = 15 liters per minute, BUT!!! this conversion for outlet nozzle 0,6 mm.
If you do not know the technical details, buy regulator with flow meter (with CFH or LPM grade)
71yOD5s yVL SX466
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
do you have the other case studies please?
Hi Dave - no, nothing more at this moment.
If you find anything valuable please post it here as this seems to be the most updated nitrogen thread.
 
1

1234dave

Specialist
Oct 5, 2018
369
Case 4 (female)
The member exhaled before placing the mask in the working position and
after 30 s she appeared conscious. At 33 s she nodded 'yes' to an
attendant's query whether she was breathing. Immediately afterwards
the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that
consciousness was lost 55 s after the mask was put in place. At 1:11
her eyeballs rolled and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors
continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared relaxed. At 2:09 the
breathing rate quickened for approximately 6 s. At 3:03 there was a
slow extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the
member's sides at 3:26.

At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then
accelerating again. From 5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning.
During this same period the eyelids were open and the eyeballs were
moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 and 38:16,
intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing and
moaning continued. During this period a number of movements occurred:
at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the shoulders shrugged and
left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06
both arms contracted for 10 s after which the member appeared quite
inert.

At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The
time elapsed for this is not known. The duration of the second tape is
26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep gasp and the head
tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and
withdrew. This tongue movement continued at 15–20 s intervals until
3:45, after which no further signs of life were apparent. The camera
continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared dead.

The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all
signs of life was approximately 42 minutes. The actual time from start
to finish is not known due to the change of video tape. The changes in
breathing patterns, moaning and longer dying time appeared to concern
and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

Conclusion
The estimated time to unconsciousness ranges from 36 to 55 s, which
varies greatly from 5 to 10 s noted by Clayton and Clayton.11 Precise
determination of unconsciousness onset is not possible, but it
appeared to coincide with blinking eyelids, rolling eyeballs and
increased breathing rate. In general, arm movements were limited to
uncoordinated contractions or extensions at the elbow. Neither
attendants nor members touched the mask once it was placed in the
working position. There were no attempts at self-rescue, which implies
that each member was unconscious.

While the camera was focused on the dying member, the attendants could
occasionally be observed, and they appeared anxious about the process.
One attendant later stated that the sudden change in skin colour
(cyanosis), and wide open eyelids were unexpected, because with sodium
pentobarbital the loss of consciousness is slower and the eyelids tend
to remain closed.

The time to death in cases 1–3 was approximately 5–10 minutes, and in
case 4 it was over 40 minutes. In case 4, it is probable that
sufficient oxygen was leaking into the breathing system to sustain
breathing and heart function.

Although each member followed the same breathing protocol, variances
in breathing patterns and total time to death can be attributed to
health differences, variable rebreathing, inspiratory leaks and
dilution of the inhaled mixture with room air (which would include 21%
oxygen). While health information and flow rate data are unavailable,
the video image reveals variances in the fit of the mask. Gaps noted
between face and mask would have allowed room air to enter into the
breathing environment, thereby extending the time to unconsciousness
and the time to death. Even if the Dignitas attendants were trained to
recognise a poor mask fit, they probably could not make adjustments
without running foul of the law. This is because Swiss law requires
the dying individual to perform the final act, and a third party
intervention to adjust the mask would probably constitute an offence.

We conclude that much of the variability in time to unconsciousness
and death can be attributed to differences in the mask fit. A hood
method could reduce the problems of fit. The fit at the collar must be
loose enough to serve as an exhaust port, but tight enough to ensure
that the flow of gas will maintain inflation of the hood.

Discussion
In these four cases, oxygen deprivation by breathing helium through a
mask proved lethal. Nevertheless, we believe a mask breathing
apparatus is problematical because it is very difficult to achieve and
maintain a gas-tight seal between the face and the mask. Even if the
initial mask fit is gas tight, subsequent involuntary movements of the
head, neck and facial muscles are likely to spoil the fit. In
anaesthesia, it is well known that achieving a continual airtight fit
is technically difficult. Even tiny leaks may substantially allow the
ingress of oxygen into the breathing environment. By enhancing the
video images, gaps are visible around the nose bridge and under the
chin, thus room air could easily prevent an oxygen-free environment.
Gaps of some degree may well have been present in all four cases.

The inspired concentration of air, and therefore oxygen, will be
determined by the relative amounts of added helium and expired gas. To
replace expired air completely, and thus ensure the highest possible
concentration of helium, the flow rate of added gas (helium) has been
determined to be a volume of at least two and a half times the
individual's minute volume. This would be true with either the bag and
mask as used by Dignitas, or with the use of a large hood. This flow
rate would require tubing of an adequate internal diameter to deliver
helium from the tank to the inhalation system.

'Final exit' offers detailed information about using a plastic bag
hood and helium for suicide. For aesthetic reasons, Dignitas chose a
mask instead of a hood. A hood, however, may be easier to manage than
any mask that we know. The elastic collar on a hood provides an
exhaust port.

Sudden exposure to a completely oxygen-deficient environment should
result in loss of consciousness within 5–10 s. Given the visibly poor
mask fit, and that the estimated time to unconsciousness ranged
between 36 and 55 s, it is probable that the breathing environment was
not completely oxygen deficient. In two case reports of sudden
exposure to a helium environment inside a hood, Ogden reported loss of
consciousness within 10–12 s.

Assistance with suicide is not necessarily a medical procedure and
these cases of oxygen deprivation show that the prescribing role of
physicians and the use of drugs can be bypassed. Ziegler recently
noted that the Swiss model of assisted suicide has significant
potential to inform the debate over the right to die, and that it
'could also help demedicalize the way that we die'. The transparency
of the Swiss model and the boldness of organisations such as Dignitas
provide unique opportunities to shed light upon otherwise hidden
behaviours. Switzerland is probably unique in that its right-to-die
organisations can account for nearly 5% of all suicides. Given the
nature of Swiss law and the good faith transparency and accountability
of right-to-die groups in that country, the Swiss model offers unique
opportunities for the observation and measurement of a phenomenon that
cries out for empirical enquiry and understanding.

Hi can you point me in the direction of the other case studies please
 
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
do you have the other case studies please?

Hi dave, what kind of information are you looking for? I can help with medical literature and reports, things like that.
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
5 bar = 0,5 megaPascal = 15 liters per minute, BUT!!! this conversion for outlet nozzle 0,6 mm.
If you do not know the technical details, buy regulator with flow meter (with CFH or LPM grade)
View attachment 1844
Did you mean 6mm or 0.6mm?
My nozzle is 3mm
 
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1234dave

Specialist
Oct 5, 2018
369
I just looking to see the other case studies in time to lose conciousness in comparison to the mask.

thanks one way.
 
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azeton

Student
Jun 2, 2018
100
Hi can you point me in the direction of the other case studies please
OSHA regulation (29 CFR 1910.134(i)(8)) and the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standard Z88.2, "Practices for Respiratory Protection," specify that respirator air-line couplings must be incompatiblewith outlets for other gas systems to prevent inadvertent servicing of air-line respirators with non-respirable gases or oxygen.

If an inert gas (e.g., helium, argon, nitrogen) is inadvertently supplied to an air-line respirator rather than breathable air, the results can be fatal. Inert gases such as helium, argon, and nitrogen are widely used in industrial settings as fire suppression blankets for flammable work in confined spaces, to operate pneumatic equipment, and to prevent oxidation in industrial processes.

Air-line respirators are typically used in painting, cleaning, some manufacturing operations, and abrasive blasting. An air-line respirator, whether configured with a hood, helmet, coverall, or facepiece, must have a hose with terminal detachable couplings. When a respirator's air line is connected to a source of inert gas rather than to breathable air, the respirator wearer who trusts his/her sense of breathlessness to determine whether he/she is connected to breathing air has little warning before losing consciousness. This is because the buildup of carbon dioxide, not a lack of oxygen, ordinarily causes the sensation of breathlessness that may alert the individual wearing the respirator. Consequently, the victim is fooled because there is no clear indication that anything is amiss. Blackout occurs quickly, without warning.

Victims wearing respirators connected to inert gas lines are in a zero percent oxygen atmosphere, and unconsciousness can occur in about 12 seconds2 and death in a matter of minutes. The situation continues to be critical because victims are still wearing respirators and continue to breathe inert gas after they collapse.

Case Histories
Some case histories that appeared in the referenced articles are presented below:

Case #1

An employee was using an air hammer to chip residue out of a furnace at an aluminum foundry. He was wearing an air-line respirator. Two compressed gas lines with universal access couplings were attached to a nearby post. The one on the right was labeled "natural gas." The gas line on the left had a paper tag attached with the word "air" handwritten on it; however, this line actually contained pure nitrogen. A splitter diverted one part of the gas stream to the air hammer and the other part of the stream to the air-line respirator. The employee was asphyxiated and killed when exposed to pure nitrogen.

Case #2

A contractor crew was assigned to abrasively blast inside a reactor vessel at a petrochemical refinery. Although verbal company policy called for contractors to supply all breathing air, this crew, with supervisor's knowledge, had on several occasions used plant air to supply breathing air. A crew member mistakenly hooked up his air-line respirator to an unlabeled nitrogen line (only the shut-off valve was labeled) used by the refinery for purging confined spaces. Plant nitrogen and air lines were identical, and both had couplings compatible with the coupler on the respirator.

Case #3

An employee hooked the fresh air line of his supplied-air respirator into a plant's compressed air lines and began abrasive blasting. The plant operators, unaware that their plant air was being used as breathing air, shut down the fresh aircompressor for routine, scheduled maintenance and pumped nitrogen into the system to maintain pressure and control the valves in the refinery. The employee was overcome by the nitrogen in the air lines and died of nitrogen asphyxia.

Case #4

An abrasive blaster at an air separation plant could not obtain breathing air from an installed line. He adapted unapproved hoses with quick-disconnect couplers so he could connect an abrasive-blasting respirator to a gas line supplying the blasting pot. This piping was not color coded nor labeled in accordance with company policy. The employee died because he did not know he was connecting to a nitrogen line instead of to compressed air. Nitrogen was a separation by-product at this plant and was piped to operate pneumatic equipment.

Case #5

A contract employee was abrasive blasting and painting gratings and railings. The air-line from the abrasive blasting respirator was hooked into the plant air supply. The plant air supply was not Grade D breathing air and was to be used only for valve gauges and pneumatic tools. The air compressor was shut down for maintenance, so nitrogen was backfed into the plant air lines. No one from the company informed the contract employee that the lines now contained nitrogen. When the abrasive blaster donned the abrasive-blasting respirator, he inhaled the nitrogen and was asphyxiated.
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
regulator have inner hole 0,6 mm
The inner hole on my regulator is 6mm and the nozzle is 3mm.

Shit do I really need another flow meter?
 
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crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I just looking to see the other case studies in time to lose conciousness in comparison to the mask.

thanks one way.
I have some bad news for you, I think you are going to have to buy an additional flowmeter and attach it to the regulator to get a liters per minute reading...

Not much new today. Just quick update on finding correct flow meter. I found one on Ebay. I ordered it I went to checkout to find out I suddenly cannot use paypal for this transaction [message: Something went wrong. Please try to check out again] I tried several times from different browsers yesterday, cleared cookies, reset payment method. No success. Very annoyed.
I will try again today. Expensive thing this flow meter, will cost me more than nitrogen tank.
I hope to hear from you guys soon.
 
onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Not much new today. Just quick update on finding correct flow meter. I found one on Ebay. I ordered it I went to checkout to find out I suddenly cannot use paypal for this transaction [message: Something went wrong. Please try to check out again] I tried several times from different browsers yesterday, cleared cookies, reset payment method. No success. Very annoyed.
I will try again today. Expensive thing this flow meter, will cost me more than nitrogen tank.
I hope to hear from you guys soon.

Yeah most expensive thing for me too. I was looking at $150 for a nitrogen flowmeter so I changed to argon, $50 instead.
 
C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Update - Finally I ordered correct flowmeter directly from german supplier. It cost me more than $150 but at least I got it and its for delivery this week.
I would be ready soon after. So scared to fuck it up. No way to test my set up or is there a way [like start with lower flow rate] What do you guys think?
 
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