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L

Limbo

Experienced
Oct 8, 2018
281
My personal opinion is that if you are not ready for guaranteed death, you should be trying other options like pharmaceutical treatments etc. before ctb. I think there should be a rational decision making process before you decide this is the only option for you and once you have made that decision you shouldn't need a way of backing out.

Ive never tried. You got me wrong. Its not that im not ready to die I am. I just dont know what to expect and dont want my last moments to be full of terror. Im a very anxious person and suffer from panic.

That is my fear. I want to go out of this world in peace. Thats all. I have zopliclone im sure that will help ease me up.
 
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deathoverlife

deathoverlife

life is fleeting.....
Oct 8, 2018
197
If you are planning nitrogen/argon (helium is not anaesthetic and I don't recommend it) then what you need would depend on the country you are in. Either nitrogen or argon might be easier to buy, and the associated regulators (different regulator is needed for each gas because the bottle fitting is different) might be easier or cheaper to buy. Personally I prefer the full face mask but the bag is probably just as good.

Get prices on argon and nitrogen. Where you buy depends on your country. ~2 cubic meter cylinders will be plenty. Get prices on nitrogen and argon regulators (with flowmeter). Compare which is cheapest, and which is easier to buy. Pick a gas. Buy gas, buy regulator. Then you just need to decide on bag/mask and rig it all up with the right hoses.

Hope this helps.

as per my knowledge and research i did helium nitrogen and argon are similar in indusing death. just that nitrogen n hekium are lighter than argon. i am planning on with helium. but what you said is putting me in conflict. its difficult for me to procure any of those gases apart from helium :(
 
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L

Limbo

Experienced
Oct 8, 2018
281
as per my knowledge and research i did helium nitrogen and argon are similar in indusing death. just that nitrogen n hekium are lighter than argon. i am planning on with helium. but what you said is putting me in conflict. its difficult for me to procure any of those gases apart from helium :(

When you say it like that it worries me. Because any place that has good quality helium has the other gases. Where are you getting it from?
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
as per my knowledge and research i did helium nitrogen and argon are similar in indusing death. just that nitrogen n hekium are lighter than argon. i am planning on with helium. but what you said is putting me in conflict. its difficult for me to procure any of those gases apart from helium :(

Are you sure about not being able to get argon? It's very commonly used in welding and should be easy to come by. If you can't, helium has been proven to work well as long as it is pure, I just suspect it won't be as comfortable in the final moments because it isn't an anaesthetic.
 
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Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
Are you in the US? Its super easy to get (pure) nitrogen and I ordered my regulator and tubing from amazon. It's not the gas itself that puts you to sleep, it's the process of breathing it in instead of oxygen. You starve your body of oxygen without really noticing.
 
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Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
I even ordered the oven bag on amazon. Ha. Death by amazon.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Are you in the US? Its super easy to get (pure) nitrogen and I ordered my regulator and tubing from amazon. It's not the gas itself that puts you to sleep, it's the process of breathing it in instead of oxygen. You starve your body of oxygen without really noticing.

Nah, Australia. Nitrogen is pretty easy to get here too, but Argon is easier. And the argon regulator is three times cheaper and can be bought over the counter (have to order nitrogen regulator online). I can't buy anything online because I live with my parents. No death by amazon for me :)

Yeah I read that breathing an inert gas, you lose consciousness in just a few breaths. Nitrogen and argon are also anaesthetics. Sounds very peaceful.
 
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Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
Nah, Australia. Nitrogen is pretty easy to get here too, but Argon is easier. And the argon regulator is three times cheaper and can be bought over the counter (have to order nitrogen regulator online). I can't buy anything online because I live with my parents. No death by amazon for me :)

Yeah I read that breathing an inert gas, you lose consciousness in just a few breaths. Nitrogen and argon are also anaesthetics. Sounds very peaceful.
Gotcha. I forget sometimes that I am privileged in many ways. Best of luck to you.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Updated plan - now argon not nitrogen.

I can't edit my original post but for the reference of anyone else in Australia who is not able to afford Nembutal, I think inert gas is as good and is readily available. Especially nitrogen or argon as they are also anaesthetics.

Same mask to be used, $22:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Fo...-XL-S-M/323431749485?var=&hash=item4b4e08d76d
$_10.JPG


A couple of notes about this mask. When I get it I will test how many breaths I can comfortably take with it sealed - argon will lead to unconsciousness in a few breaths but I don't want to panic from lack of air before then. Also, I posted this earlier in the thread but here is some evidence that this will work.
Again, WARNING this is a medical report with graphic images including lungs which have been removed for autopsy https://www.researchgate.net/public...alation_by_use_of_Scuba_Full-Face_Diving_Mask

This is the flowmeter I will be buying. It is the main reason I changed to argon from nitrogen, it is much cheaper ($54.95) and can be bought in store so no suspicious mail is needed. The output can have the right size hose easily attached. It's perfect.
https://www.totaltools.com.au/111633-michigan-argon-flowmeter-25l-min-flw801fl4
111633-Argon-Flowmeter-25LMin-_1000x1000-0.jpg


The Argon gas I will get from BOC gases. This could also be bought from bunnings for $99 but they require a $200 deposit, total $299. I will be purchasing 2m³ for $140.38, plus cylinder rental of $16.03. Total $156.41.

https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/gases/argon-gas/argon--high-purity-grade--compressed
061.jpg


That only leaves the length of hose that will connect the regulator to the mask, should be less than $10. Total cost is approximately $240. I believe this is a lot less than Nembutal and Australian customs are very strict so it make have to be purchased more than once before it is received.

For anyone living in Australia and not very wealthy, I think argon with a mask or bag is cheap, reliable, accessible and peaceful. Hope this information helps someone else too. I did a lot of research and came to this as the best option and these places the best to buy.
 
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C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Hi sorry to hear you have alzeihmers, i do too at 31. Like you say im having trouble planning my exit. Can you please post up what equipment you bought?
Thanks

Hi Im sorry to hear that. I believe I noticed first symptoms when I was around your age too.
No cure for us, huh? Loss of memory [short memory] is devastating in my case.

1. Nitrogen
I bought a gas tank from Ebay, Its much larger than the one sold by max dog and it also comes with gas regulator.
The shop is in Poland and they use UPS to ship it to UK. It cost me £135. Im not sure if I can post any links here so look for 'Nitrogen Gas Bottle Cylinder New! Full 1.6m3 8L 200 Bar Free Delivery Reusable'
seller name is 'pemapshop'.
I will post quick review here, when I got my tank.

2. PVC flexible tube [2 meters?] not ordered yet.

3. Bag
I ordered medium duty 120 gauge 20x24in bag.
Not sure if I need heavy duty instead - anyone can confirm please?

As everyone here I would suggest you too read the chapter from link above. I believe Its the most peaceful way to leave, but must be well prepared.
Thats why I asked about effective removing CO2 from your exit bag, one you lost conscience and cannot control things anymore.
 
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C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
I even ordered the oven bag on amazon. Ha. Death by amazon.

Please test you oven bag before you use it. They seem to be not strong enough for our purpose [in reviews they rip easily]
Imagine what will happen when you tear it off your head when unconscious, possible brain damage?
 
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C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Sorry I do not fully understand your question. Essentially you want to replace oxygen with nitrogen/argon as quickly as possible. If you were to exhale fully, then start breathing pure nitrogen/argon you would lose consciousness in seconds and be dead in minutes. There would probably be no time to experience oxygen hunger, and even if there was argon and nitrogen (unlike helium) have anesthetic properties so they would ease any discomfort you might feel.

Another reason I am using argon over nitrogen with a full face mask is that because it is heavier than air, it will 'pool' and be densest at the bottom of the mask, where my mouth is. The mask won't be a perfect seal (if it was it would pop anyway with gas constantly coming in) so any CO2 I exhale should leak out to be replaced with the constant inflow of argon.

Anyway sorry again but I am not sure exactly what you're asking.

I think you answered my question about presence of CO2. Thank you.
 
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onewayroad

onewayroad

“Dying is not a crime.” ― Jack Kevorkian
Oct 4, 2018
358
Please test you oven bag before you use it. They seem to be not strong enough for our purpose [in reviews they rip easily]
Imagine what will happen when you tear it off your head when unconscious, possible brain damage?

Terrified of being alive but brain damaged, that's why I chose the mask. Seems sturdier.
 
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L

Limbo

Experienced
Oct 8, 2018
281
Terrified of being alive but brain damaged, that's why I chose the mask. Seems sturdier.

surely a bag is more reliable? I have police grade handcuffs that I will use also (with keys nearby in case). Using a cheap ebay mask scares me.
 
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C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Terrified of being alive but brain damaged, that's why I chose the mask. Seems sturdier.
have you guys seen this bbc documentary already?

start from 36min.
 
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Made4TV

Made4TV

A hopeless hope junkie
Sep 17, 2018
574
I am layering two bags. I was pretty rough on one and it stood up ok. I'll do more tests later. I ordered a pack of 16...not gonna ctb that many times. Ha.
 
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deathoverlife

deathoverlife

life is fleeting.....
Oct 8, 2018
197
i
Are you sure about not being able to get argon? It's very commonly used in welding and should be easy to come by. If you can't, helium has been proven to work well as long as it is pure, I just suspect it won't be as comfortable in the final moments because it isn't an anaesthetic.
the link what you posted says none of the gases are anasthetic. and using any of the above mentioned won't kill you but we die due to oxygen diprivstion. i checked with the dealer..he says the helium he is supplying is 99% pure. he says he would show me the certificate as well. am not picking up the helium balloon tank but directly for thr gas suppliers..a 7 cubic meter tank..its costing me bomb but I can't help it... need to work on thr connecter and a pressure monitor.
 
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A

azeton

Student
Jun 2, 2018
100

Case 4 (female)
The member exhaled before placing the mask in the working position and
after 30 s she appeared conscious. At 33 s she nodded 'yes' to an
attendant's query whether she was breathing. Immediately afterwards
the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that
consciousness was lost 55 s after the mask was put in place. At 1:11
her eyeballs rolled and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors
continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared relaxed. At 2:09 the
breathing rate quickened for approximately 6 s. At 3:03 there was a
slow extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the
member's sides at 3:26.

At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then
accelerating again. From 5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning.
During this same period the eyelids were open and the eyeballs were
moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 and 38:16,
intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing and
moaning continued. During this period a number of movements occurred:
at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the shoulders shrugged and
left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06
both arms contracted for 10 s after which the member appeared quite
inert.

At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The
time elapsed for this is not known. The duration of the second tape is
26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep gasp and the head
tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and
withdrew. This tongue movement continued at 15–20 s intervals until
3:45, after which no further signs of life were apparent. The camera
continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared dead.

The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all
signs of life was approximately 42 minutes. The actual time from start
to finish is not known due to the change of video tape. The changes in
breathing patterns, moaning and longer dying time appeared to concern
and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

Conclusion
The estimated time to unconsciousness ranges from 36 to 55 s, which
varies greatly from 5 to 10 s noted by Clayton and Clayton.11 Precise
determination of unconsciousness onset is not possible, but it
appeared to coincide with blinking eyelids, rolling eyeballs and
increased breathing rate. In general, arm movements were limited to
uncoordinated contractions or extensions at the elbow. Neither
attendants nor members touched the mask once it was placed in the
working position. There were no attempts at self-rescue, which implies
that each member was unconscious.

While the camera was focused on the dying member, the attendants could
occasionally be observed, and they appeared anxious about the process.
One attendant later stated that the sudden change in skin colour
(cyanosis), and wide open eyelids were unexpected, because with sodium
pentobarbital the loss of consciousness is slower and the eyelids tend
to remain closed.

The time to death in cases 1–3 was approximately 5–10 minutes, and in
case 4 it was over 40 minutes. In case 4, it is probable that
sufficient oxygen was leaking into the breathing system to sustain
breathing and heart function.

Although each member followed the same breathing protocol, variances
in breathing patterns and total time to death can be attributed to
health differences, variable rebreathing, inspiratory leaks and
dilution of the inhaled mixture with room air (which would include 21%
oxygen). While health information and flow rate data are unavailable,
the video image reveals variances in the fit of the mask. Gaps noted
between face and mask would have allowed room air to enter into the
breathing environment, thereby extending the time to unconsciousness
and the time to death. Even if the Dignitas attendants were trained to
recognise a poor mask fit, they probably could not make adjustments
without running foul of the law. This is because Swiss law requires
the dying individual to perform the final act, and a third party
intervention to adjust the mask would probably constitute an offence.

We conclude that much of the variability in time to unconsciousness
and death can be attributed to differences in the mask fit. A hood
method could reduce the problems of fit. The fit at the collar must be
loose enough to serve as an exhaust port, but tight enough to ensure
that the flow of gas will maintain inflation of the hood.

Discussion
In these four cases, oxygen deprivation by breathing helium through a
mask proved lethal. Nevertheless, we believe a mask breathing
apparatus is problematical because it is very difficult to achieve and
maintain a gas-tight seal between the face and the mask. Even if the
initial mask fit is gas tight, subsequent involuntary movements of the
head, neck and facial muscles are likely to spoil the fit. In
anaesthesia, it is well known that achieving a continual airtight fit
is technically difficult. Even tiny leaks may substantially allow the
ingress of oxygen into the breathing environment. By enhancing the
video images, gaps are visible around the nose bridge and under the
chin, thus room air could easily prevent an oxygen-free environment.
Gaps of some degree may well have been present in all four cases.

The inspired concentration of air, and therefore oxygen, will be
determined by the relative amounts of added helium and expired gas. To
replace expired air completely, and thus ensure the highest possible
concentration of helium, the flow rate of added gas (helium) has been
determined to be a volume of at least two and a half times the
individual's minute volume. This would be true with either the bag and
mask as used by Dignitas, or with the use of a large hood. This flow
rate would require tubing of an adequate internal diameter to deliver
helium from the tank to the inhalation system.

'Final exit' offers detailed information about using a plastic bag
hood and helium for suicide. For aesthetic reasons, Dignitas chose a
mask instead of a hood. A hood, however, may be easier to manage than
any mask that we know. The elastic collar on a hood provides an
exhaust port.

Sudden exposure to a completely oxygen-deficient environment should
result in loss of consciousness within 5–10 s. Given the visibly poor
mask fit, and that the estimated time to unconsciousness ranged
between 36 and 55 s, it is probable that the breathing environment was
not completely oxygen deficient. In two case reports of sudden
exposure to a helium environment inside a hood, Ogden reported loss of
consciousness within 10–12 s.

Assistance with suicide is not necessarily a medical procedure and
these cases of oxygen deprivation show that the prescribing role of
physicians and the use of drugs can be bypassed. Ziegler recently
noted that the Swiss model of assisted suicide has significant
potential to inform the debate over the right to die, and that it
'could also help demedicalize the way that we die'. The transparency
of the Swiss model and the boldness of organisations such as Dignitas
provide unique opportunities to shed light upon otherwise hidden
behaviours. Switzerland is probably unique in that its right-to-die
organisations can account for nearly 5% of all suicides. Given the
nature of Swiss law and the good faith transparency and accountability
of right-to-die groups in that country, the Swiss model offers unique
opportunities for the observation and measurement of a phenomenon that
cries out for empirical enquiry and understanding.
 
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C

crova

Making death amazing journey
Oct 7, 2018
377
Cool. Thanks for this.
From 42 min they discuss using nitrogen as the way of slaughtering pigs.
Animal lost conscious just in less than 10 seconds and it was not even connected to any machine, but entered confined space filled with gas.
 
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