Method Nitrogen with mask exit strategy

[onewayroad]

Hi everyone.

Quick background, I'm 30 years old and I've been trying to get treatment for bipolar for over ten years. I have had a few manic episodes but mainly I experience crippling depression and severe emotional pain, almost all the time. I believe I still have a few more extreme treatment methods to try before I ctb such as electroshock and intramuscular ketamine injections, but if everything fails I refuse to continue to suffer like this for up to another 50 years.

So, I'm starting to prepare for that eventuality and hoping to get some advice before I buy some of the more expensive gear.

My chosen method is nitrogen gas. My planned setup is as follows:

I have already bought this mask from eBay:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Anti-Fo...-XL-S-M/323431749485?var=&hash=item4b4e08d76d

The top snorkel is removable and a hose can be duct taped to the top of the mask.

I plan on buying the following regulator. I haven't bought it yet because I'm extremely poor and it is the most expensive part costing $150, so I want to make sure it's correct. Do you think I have a cheaper option?
http://www.rentfreegas.com.au/shop/...tage-side-entry-20000kpa-flow-meter-0-25lmin/

Finally, I plan on renting a food grade nitrogen canister, 1.8 cubic meters or 1800 L, from BOC gases. The cylinder rental is only ~$20 a month and the nitrogen is ~$70, total cost ~$90.
https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/nitrogen-food-grade#product1

The last thing I'll need is a flexible hose to connect the regulator to the mask, which I guess I'll just duct tape at either end. Total cost is around $270, a lot less than for example buying a mad dog brewing nitrogen kit which costs around $780 USD, so over $1000 Australian dollerydoos.

Can anyone see any potential issues with this setup? I do still hope that I can find treatment that works but if I can't, I want a reliable way out of this hell.

One more question, what are your thoughts on the best place to ctb so that you are not found too soon or too late? I was thinking of driving to a remote location and calling an ambulance the moment before I do it, knowing that it will take them at least half an hour to drive there. Any other suggestions?

Thanks for reading my extended first post.

 

[onewayroad]

Shamelessly bumping my own thread because it was under moderator review for several hours

 

[chronicpainnomore]

Your setup is missing a vital component: volume. In an exit bag setup, this is the bag itself. Simply put, when you breathe in and out, you're moving a massive volume of gas, and this has to have somewhere to go, and somewhere to come from. The reason this is so important in this case is because you're trying to control exactly which gas it is you are inhaling. It would be very hard to get a fast enough flow from a hose alone to satisfy your body's need to inhale. You'd end up feeling like you're suffocating and ripping the mask off. My advice is to either ditch the mask and go with a traditional exit bag setup, or figure out a way to incorporate a reservoir bag into your circuit.

 

[onewayroad]

Your setup is missing a vital component: volume. In an exit bag setup, this is the bag itself. Simply put, when you breathe in and out, you're moving a massive volume of gas, and this has to have somewhere to go, and somewhere to come from. The reason this is so important in this case is because you're trying to control exactly which gas it is you are inhaling. It would be very hard to get a fast enough flow from a hose alone to satisfy your body's need to inhale. You'd end up feeling like you're suffocating and ripping the mask off. My advice is to either ditch the mask and go with a traditional exit bag setup, or figure out a way to incorporate a reservoir bag into your circuit.

I had heard that, but I found this case study of someone else using a full face diving mask with nitrogen successfully. WARNING this is a medical report with graphic images including lungs which have been removed for autopsy https://www.researchgate.net/public...alation_by_use_of_Scuba_Full-Face_Diving_Mask

 

[Made4TV]

Yeah the only thing I question is also the mask. The only way it wouldn't leak in oxygen from any movements of your body is to duct tape all edges to your face. And that seems miserable.

 

[Made4TV]

Also check if your flow meter is noting liters per minute or cubic feet per minute. Exit recommends 15 lpm.

 

[onewayroad]

Yeah the only thing I question is also the mask. The only way it wouldn't leak in oxygen from any movements of your body is to duct tape all edges to your face. And that seems miserable.

Also check if your flow meter is noting liters per minute or cubic feet per minute. Exit recommends 15 lpm.

Yeap it's liters per minute. I'm pretty sure the mask would be airtight as it's designed to be waterproof, only allowing air in through the snorkel. Some nitrogen might leak out of the mask due to the pressure but I don't think any air would be coming in, or very little at least. And like I linked above, someone else used a diving mask (rather than a snorkeling mask but whatever) successfully.

 

[Made4TV]

Ok cool!

 

[onewayroad]

Update, I have switched to Argon rather than Nitrogen.

The reason is that Argon is slightly more expensive but the regulator/flowmeter which fits argon cylinders is much more common and can be bought for around $50 rather than $150.

Argon can also be bought from major hardware retailers, whereas nitrogen has to be bought from a supplier like BOC gases which requires registration, etc.

To anyone else in Australia considering gas as a method I would recommend Argon as it is the lowest cost and easiest to obtain.

Also, I learnt that nitrogen and argon have anaesthetic properties whereas helium doesn't so helium is out.
https://www.general-anaesthesia.com/noblegas-anaesthesia.html

If you live in Australia (this might apply to other parts of the world too) argon seems to be the way to go if you can't afford Nembutal and anti-emetics.

 

[Clover_]

Good luck and pleasant tides

 

[polyswarm]

Using duct tape won't create an airtight seal, as far as I know.
Unless the tubing you use fits very snuggly on the mask, and the tape is just there to keep it in place, I don't think it would be a tight enough seal.

The anti-fog and drain valve at the bottom of the mask is great, as it will allow CO2 to leave.
But Made4TV brought up a good point, it has to fit very snug on your face.

One thing that seems very important with this method is that you inhale a lot of inert gas, very quickly, so you pass out within a few breaths, and don't experience any adverse effects.
How you put on the mask seems very important as well to me, because of this.

Like with the exit bag, it would probably be best to exhale completely before putting on the mask.
And when you have the mask on, waiting to breathe in as long as possible so the mask can fill up with gas, displacing any oxygen that's left.

This is just from quick observation and from the little I know, so please forgive any misinformation.

 

[onewayroad]

Using duct tape won't create an airtight seal, as far as I know.
Unless the tubing you use fits very snuggly on the mask, and the tape is just there to keep it in place, I don't think it would be a tight enough seal.

The anti-fog and drain valve at the bottom of the mask is great, as it will allow CO2 to leave.
But Made4TV brought up a good point, it has to fit very snug on your face.

One thing that seems very important with this method is that you inhale a lot of inert gas, very quickly, so you pass out within a few breaths, and don't experience any adverse effects.
How you put on the mask seems very important as well to me, because of this.

Like with the exit bag, it would probably be best to exhale completely before putting on the mask.
And when you have the mask on, waiting to breathe in as long as possible so the mask can fill up with gas as much as possible.

This is just from quick observation and from the little I know, so please forgive any misinformation.

Yeah all very good points. I intend to check how tightly it seals on my face somehow, and holding your breath when you put the mask on is a good idea. I believe that small space should fill up very quickly. The mask could also be put on while being held like a bowl because argon is heavier than air and will fill it. I think that's another advantage to argon.

 

[polyswarm]

Oh yea, that seems like a good idea, holding it like a bowl, so maybe also best to lean over while putting it on.
And I think you're right, the mask should fill up really quickly.

Good luck with your setup!

 

[crova]

Hallo Everyone! Im new here but very long time with depression and Miss Suicide. Im basically ready to go.

I join this forum to find some answers, precise the method of depart this world and share some thought with people of the same path.
English is not my first language so please forgive my choppy phrases. My brain is not as sharp and flexible as it used to be
several years ago. I have early stage of Alzheimer.

Nitrogen is my way to exit this place, I ordered it from Ebay and its due for delivery soon.
What are advantages of mask over a bag please.
Do you think bag is too risky?

 

[onewayroad]

Hallo Everyone! Im new here but very long time with depression and Miss Suicide. Im basically ready to go.

I join this forum to find some answers, precise the method of depart this world and share some thought with people of the same path.
English is not my first language so please forgive my choppy phrases. My brain is not as sharp and flexible as it used to be
several years ago. I have early stage of Alzheimer.

Nitrogen is my way to exit this place, I ordered it from Ebay and its due for delivery soon.
What are advantages of mask over a bag please.
Do you think bag is too risky?

Hi crova. Sorry to hear that you have been diagnosed with Alzheimers. I am a neuroscientist and I know that the progression of this disease is so terrible.

Make sure you do plenty of research before using this method, it is only foolproof if done correctly. Read chapter five of the peaceful pill handbook: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2NX0jVOjCrOJycMsy3KLXHMSGL3MSnV

My reasons for choosing a mask rather than a bag are 1) I saw a medical article (posted above) showing someone had succeeded with a mask 2) I feel I would be more likely to panic and rip off a bag 3) I feel a bag may be more likely to tear or have something go wrong 4) if I had to find the body of someone who had died I would prefer to find them in a mask than with a bag over their head

Not really any good reasons, just a few unimportant reasons.

 

[Limbo]

Why are you spending so much on food grade nitrogen when you can get the cheapest option at 99.98% purity?

 

[onewayroad]

Why are you spending so much on food grade nitrogen when you can get the cheapest option at 99.98% purity?

Actually at some point in this thread I mentioned that I'm changing to Argon anyway. It's a little more expensive for the gas but the regulators are easier to come by and cost a lot less. $50 instead of $150 and can be bought in a store. And it being heavier than air makes it easier to work with, you can fill the bag (or mask) before putting it on.

 

[crova]

Thank you. I read this chapter already and I will do it again.
What scares me the most is I would screw it up and return with some degree of brain damage or vegetable! So yes I will read it all over again until I understand all aspects of it well.

As a neuroscientist you know these things better than anyone here - CO2 in the bag: would it be enough
of it to trigger oxygen hunger if its not effectively removed from the bag, thats why 15lpm is so crucial.
To flush the CO2 as quickly as possible from re-entering the body. Am I correct?
How does it work when you have a mask then? How tight my exit bag should be on my neck.

 

[onewayroad]

Thank you. I read this chapter already and I will do it again.
What scares me the most is I would screw it up and return with some degree of brain damage or vegetable! So yes I will read it all over again until I understand all aspects of it well.

As a neuroscientist you know these things better than anyone here - CO2 in the bag: would it be enough
of it to trigger oxygen hunger if its not effectively removed from the bag, thats why 15lpm is so crucial.
To flush the CO2 as quickly as possible from re-entering the body. Am I correct?
How does it work when you have a mask then? How tight my exit bag should be on my neck.

Sorry I do not fully understand your question. Essentially you want to replace oxygen with nitrogen/argon as quickly as possible. If you were to exhale fully, then start breathing pure nitrogen/argon you would lose consciousness in seconds and be dead in minutes. There would probably be no time to experience oxygen hunger, and even if there was argon and nitrogen (unlike helium) have anesthetic properties so they would ease any discomfort you might feel.

Another reason I am using argon over nitrogen with a full face mask is that because it is heavier than air, it will 'pool' and be densest at the bottom of the mask, where my mouth is. The mask won't be a perfect seal (if it was it would pop anyway with gas constantly coming in) so any CO2 I exhale should leak out to be replaced with the constant inflow of argon.

Anyway sorry again but I am not sure exactly what you're asking.

 

[1234dave]

Hallo Everyone! Im new here but very long time with depression and Miss Suicide. Im basically ready to go.

I join this forum to find some answers, precise the method of depart this world and share some thought with people of the same path.
English is not my first language so please forgive my choppy phrases. My brain is not as sharp and flexible as it used to be
several years ago. I have early stage of Alzheimer.

Nitrogen is my way to exit this place, I ordered it from Ebay and its due for delivery soon.
What are advantages of mask over a bag please.
Do you think bag is too risky?

Hi sorry to hear you have alzeihmers, i do too at 31. Like you say im having trouble planning my exit. Can you please post up what equipment you bought?

Thanks

 

[onewayroad]

Hi sorry to hear you have alzeihmers, i do too at 31. Like you say im having trouble planning my exit. Can you please post up what equipment you bought?

Thanks

If you are planning nitrogen/argon (helium is not anaesthetic and I don't recommend it) then what you need would depend on the country you are in. Either nitrogen or argon might be easier to buy, and the associated regulators (different regulator is needed for each gas because the bottle fitting is different) might be easier or cheaper to buy. Personally I prefer the full face mask but the bag is probably just as good.

Get prices on argon and nitrogen. Where you buy depends on your country. ~2 cubic meter cylinders will be plenty. Get prices on nitrogen and argon regulators (with flowmeter). Compare which is cheapest, and which is easier to buy. Pick a gas. Buy gas, buy regulator. Then you just need to decide on bag/mask and rig it all up with the right hoses.

Hope this helps.

 

[1234dave]

If you are planning nitrogen/argon (helium is not anaesthetic and I don't recommend it) then what you need would depend on the country you are in. Either nitrogen or argon might be easier to buy, and the associated regulators (different regulator is needed for each gas because the bottle fitting is different) might be easier or cheaper to buy. Personally I prefer the full face mask but the bag is probably just as good.

Get prices on argon and nitrogen. Where you buy depends on your country. ~2 cubic meter cylinders will be plenty. Get prices on nitrogen and argon regulators (with flowmeter). Compare which is cheapest, and which is easier to buy. Pick a gas. Buy gas, buy regulator. Then you just need to decide on bag/mask and rig it all up with the right hoses.

Hope this helps.

thanks. how long does it take to be unconcious?

 

[ineedtojackit]

Two potential problems as this was a method I was considering a lot, first I don't think the mask will work as I looked it up a lot and didn't want to use the bag over the head method due to discomfort/paranoia but I believe it is necessary to flush out the CO2 and not cause panic. Second a lot of gases can be diluted but MaxDog Brewery offers very pure nitrogen. I suggest you look into the peaceful pill handbook for more specifics and better instructions on this method as well as others, i've switched over to just using Nembutal as it seems much more peaceful and efficient compared to the exit bag.

 

[onewayroad]

thanks. how long does it take to be unconcious?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation "By contrast, suddenly breathing pure inert gas causes oxygen levels in the blood to fall precipitously, and may lead to unconsciousness in only a few breaths, with no symptoms at all"

It would be a matter of seconds.

Two potential problems as this was a method I was considering a lot, first I don't think the mask will work as I looked it up a lot and didn't want to use the bag over the head method due to discomfort/paranoia but I believe it is necessary to flush out the CO2 and not cause panic. Second a lot of gases can be diluted but MaxDog Brewery offers very pure nitrogen. I suggest you look into the peaceful pill handbook for more specifics and better instructions on this method as well as others, i've switched over to just using Nembutal as it seems much more peaceful and efficient compared to the exit bag.

There is a well documented case report in the medical literature which I have linked earlier in this thread that shows a suicide with nitrogen and a diving mask. And consider this. Seal a full face diving mask and see how many breaths it takes you to become uncomfortable. I will test this when I get my mask but I believe it would be at least five. And as mentioned above, unconsciousness would occur after just a few breaths. So I do not think CO2 will become an issue. But nembutal is an equally good option without as much preparation, so I understand your decision and I wish you all the best.

 

[1234dave]

I think drinking something is the easiest, breathing in gases seems abnormal but effective

 

[onewayroad]

I think drinking something is the easiest, breathing in gases seems abnormal but effective

Drinking something might be easier to commit to than putting on the mask/bag on but other than that I think the mask is the easiest. It's less intense than putting a bag on your head and in a few anesthetic breaths you are done.

 

[1234dave]

yes seems the best, i see it is being used in executions nowadays so must be ok

 

[Limbo]

I think drinking something is the easiest, breathing in gases seems abnormal but effective

I dont like the idea of nembutal. It seems too easy. And the lack of control scares me. With nitrogen you can breathe whenever you want or take it off. With nembutal, if you regret you are fucked.

 

[onewayroad]

I dont like the idea of nembutal. It seems too easy. And the lack of control scares me. With nitrogen you can breathe whenever you want or take it off. With nembutal, if you regret you are fucked.

My personal opinion is that if you are not ready for guaranteed death, you should be trying other options like pharmaceutical treatments etc. before ctb. I think there should be a rational decision making process before you decide this is the only option for you and once you have made that decision you shouldn't need a way of backing out.

 

[1234dave]

I dont like the idea of nembutal. It seems too easy. And the lack of control scares me. With nitrogen you can breathe whenever you want or take it off. With nembutal, if you regret you are fucked.

you may not be in the right place. it comes to a point you have to go