Venting New Moon: Victim Porn

[GideonVandaleur]

GIDEON: my god you read my post and take every word as serious without even bothering to appreciate the nuance, the subtleties, in the hollows and shadows between my beautiful prose, you mutton heads, you ignorami, have u never been on a night school in "creative writing"

ALSO GIDEON: wait l said IT WAS ALL A JOKE yet you read everything l wrote around this and came to an overall conclusion based on critically assessing the language used when describing the positions l was taking in their entirety, why are you doing this, wtf is wrong with you, just take my words at literal face value you ass hat

Check the quote again, You missed the part where I said everything I've ever written is a joke rant. Yes there might be some grain of truth to jokes because that's how jokes work. Call it a full joke call it a half joke, the point is you all took it way too seriously which is why you got offended. If you hadn't taken it so seriously you might not have missed the point and we wouldn't have had this exhausting exchange.

certain words have a background that make using them hurtful and very disrespectful.

just because you aren't offended by them doesn't mean it's ok to use them.

Finally someone with an actually good point. You're right and that's why I rarely use it. But that doesn't mean the word doesn't have it's place. Whether my use of it in this post was the place for it or not is debatable but at some point one has to chalk it up to a creative writing choice.

 

[Chinaski]

Whether my use of it in this post was the place for it or not is debatable but at some point one has to chalk it up to a creative writing choice.

This is breathtakingly pompous. You're posting on the internet, there is absolutely no need to consider the artistic merit of using language you know is offensive in order to enhance impact.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

This is breathtakingly pompous. You're posting on the internet, there is absolutely no need to consider the artistic merit of using language you know is offensive in order to enhance impact.

Again you're also describing yourself because you think tone and language policing is somehow productive in any way shape or form. You might find my particular word choice subjectively to be lacking artistic merit but that doesn't mean that it objectively lacks artistic merit.

 

[Chinaski]

Yeah l do think the canning of the deliberate and provocative use of offensive terms and misogynistic language is productive, l don't think the needs of one attention-seeking individual to Express Themselves Creatively via their needless use should trump those of literally everyone else.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Yeah l do think the canning of the deliberate and provocative use of offensive terms and misogynistic language is productive, l don't think the needs of one attention-seeking individual to Express Themselves Creatively via their needless use should trump those of literally everyone else.

You're assuming that I was trying to be productive when I explicitly said in my OG post that this is merely me venting and getting things off my chest. Whether anyone pays any attention to it or not is of zero concern to me. And freedom of expression does in fact trump the tendency of people to get offended or are you anti democracy? You can't say anything even if it's not controversial without someone somewhere getting needlessly offended, are you suggesting their offense should silence creative expression? I don't think so. You're demonstrating that you are philosophically bankrupt. You only care about not getting your precious feelings hurt. It's weak sauce BS.

 

[Al Cappella]

You might find my particular word choice subjectively to be lacking artistic merit but that doesn't mean that it objectively lacks artistic merit.

Actually, yes, it fairly does mean that. Once a piece of writing enters the world, be it complete trash or Proust, it ceases to belong to the writer in a certain sense. It stands on its own merits. The public can go on to say whatever they like about it. Same thing with painting, music—whatever.

One of the tells that a piece of writing has missed its mark, or is downright incompetent, is when the author needs to resort to playing the misunderstood or everyone but me is a moron cards. People aren't nearly as daft as you think, and you're not nearly as capable as you imagine yourself to be.

 

[Chinaski]

My feelings aren't hurt l just think you're full of shit.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

My feelings aren't hurt l just think you're full of shit.

Taking offense is an emotional response. But I'm willing to let that slide. And like that you finally summarized the point of my OG post. You got it! You're full of shit, I'm full of shit, everyone is full of shit. That is the human condition and it's kinda sorta fine. We should be able to talk about it. You took the long way around but you got there in the end. Well done. Are we good now?

Actually, yes, it fairly does mean that. Once a piece of writing enters the world, be it complete trash or Proust, it ceases to belong to the writer in a certain sense. It stands on its own merits. The public can go on to say whatever they like about it. Same thing with painting, music—whatever.

One of the tells that a piece of writing has missed its mark, or is downright incompetent, is when the author needs to resort to playing the misunderstood or everyone but me is a moron cards. People aren't nearly as daft as you think, and you're not nearly as capable as you imagine yourself to be.

I know that the author loses ownership to some extent and people can say whatever they want but that doesn't mean that their subjective criticism is actually correct or fair. From your perspective the execution was incompetent. That's fine I'm not mad about that. You're entitled to think that. But there are others who would look at my post and think that there nearly as much wrong with it as you seem to think. Most peoples criticism of anything including any piece of art is subjective trash and most of it is not worth listening to. There are those who are great at criticism because the possess the training to be as objective as they can be. I never claimed I was competent what I claimed was that some people missed the boat which is not an inaccurate statement to make. I wasn't playing at anything if you see my last post to Chinsaki before this response to you. He got there in the end. There's no real issue here.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

 

[freedompass]

Hmmm ok well 'talking of retarded' it's not exactly clever to generalise over a whole half of the population is it? I mean, sorry I'm not actually trying to be incendiary even but I am in no way surprised some people are offended.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Hmmm ok well 'talking of retarded' it's not exactly clever to generalise over a whole half of the population is it? I mean, sorry I'm not actually trying to be incendiary even but I am in no way surprised some people are offended.

The example was half the population the overall generalization applied to everyone. So either everyone should be offended or no one should. Or maybe some weird mixture of both.

 

[Pluto]

 

[goldenvirginia]

Is this a joke? Or just toxic drivel?

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Is this a joke? Or just toxic drivel?

As I keep repeating over and over again joke rant.

 

[goldenvirginia]

Joke rants can still be offensive.

 

[Oblivion Access]

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Joke rants can still be offensive.

Yeah, so what? What's wrong with being offended? Oh you're all offended, I don't care! Nothing happens if you're offended. Being offended is subjective and has everything to do with you as an individual, or a collective, or a group, or a society, or a community, your moral conditioning, your beliefs. What offends me may not offend you. You can't live in a democratic world with freedom of expression and expect to never be offended again. You're all adults, grow up and deal with it. I wrote a joke rant all about being offended by twilight and stated my reasons for it but I'm not advocating for twilight to be censored am I? Meanwhile most of you are advocating for censorship because you're offended by my use of the word retarded, an attitude bordering on fascism frankly. All I'm advocating for is for people to have better taste in what they choose to consume and you're offended by that? Really? Of all the things to be offended about on this planet you chose this particular corner of the entire internet to huff and puff about?

 

[goldenvirginia]

I'm offended by the misogyny. Joke or not, you're contributing to a growing problem on this site. One that is constantly ignored, giving a green light to some people posting highly toxic bullshit about females. I'm all for freedom of speech. But that isn't how it works on this site. Women call out men for predatory behaviour on here and the post is deleted. Yet men are allowed to say whatever they want. Fuck that.

 

[Chinaski]

Meanwhile most of you are advocating for censorship because you're offended by my use of the word retarded, an attitude bordering on fascism frankly.

Are you for real here, criticising your use of language is not "bordering on fascism", every single post you make is somehow even more ridiculous than the last.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

I'm offended by the misogyny. Joke or not, you're contributing to a growing problem on this site. One that is constantly ignored, giving a green light to some people posting highly toxic bullshit about females. I'm all for freedom of speech. But that isn't how it works on this site. Women call out men for predatory behaviour on here and the post is deleted. Yet men are allowed to say whatever they want. Fuck that.

Again like I pointed out before in the the long discussion on this thread which you didn't bother to read through. The post is not misogynistic because I deliberately stated in a self aware fashion that everything I said about women is equally applicable to men. I've never seen the mods delete any post where women say their piece about men, but maybe I'm wrong and it has happened. In which chase I would whole heartedly support women's posts even if they had a misandrist hint to them because I am nothing if not fair. I wouldn't be offended by a woman joke ranting about men or being entirely serious. I'd look for their underlying point which most likely has a grain of truth in it.

Are you for real here, criticising your use of language is not "bordering on fascism", every single post you make is somehow even more ridiculous than the last.

You explicitly said that you wanted to expunge the word retarded out of the dictionary and now you're claiming that isn't you advocating for straight up fascist censorship? Shall I quote you? Eliminating a word from someone's vocab is not merely linguistic criticism. It's plain and simple censorship. The only one being absurd here is you, have you not learned your lesson yet from our previous exchange and want to start this all up again? You can't win against someone like me so stop trying.

 

[goldenvirginia]

I read enough. And your grain of truth tells me all I need to know.

 

[LastLoveLetter]

Criticising harmful speech and advocating for offensive, hateful rhetoric to not be permitted (on a suicide forum - a free speech haven for everyone and fuck people who dislike discrimination apparently) is not fascism. The whole "you're actually a misandrist!!!!!!" argument is also ridiculous.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

I read enough. And your grain of truth tells me all I need to know.

I've never used the phrase, I've read enough in my entire life. No one has ever read enough to know all they need to know. To assume that you know everything about my character based entirely on a single post without reading any other work I've put out is hardly fair. The fact is you don't know me and it's arrogant of you to assume that you do. I'm not a good man but I'm also not a bad man, I am an idiot just passing through, attempting to help out, and learning. But please do go on making inaccurate snap judgments about someone whilst patting yourself on the back for it.

 

[Chinaski]

You explicitly said that you wanted to expunge the word retarded out of the dictionary and now you're claiming that isn't you advocating for straight up fascist censorship? Shall I quote you? Eliminating a word from someone's vocab is not merely linguistic criticism. It's plain and simple censorship. The only one being absurd here is you, have you not learned your lesson yet from our previous exchange and want to start this all up again? You can't win against someone like me so stop trying.

Firstly at no point did l say it should be expunged from the dictionary, secondly idk why the fuck you keep remarking as if you've somehow hammered me with your Reason and Logic when literally everyone can read our exchange and will come to their own conclusions, l strongly suspect it will not be in accordance with your grandiose view of your own intellectual prowess.

People will be assessed on the language they use, if your aim is to win attention by way of using deliberately offensive terminology you really can't complain when some people express their disapproval, and yes, people who express themselves in a way which is deliberately offensive should be given short shrift. Right-thinking people will naturally express disdain towards those who demand their right to be noisily offensive in public spaces be respected above all else, and in my view on a forum such as this one you should expect to see a lesser tolerance for that shit. You are not being silenced, your freeze peach is not under threat, many other websites are available which would absolutely appreciate that kind of content.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Criticising harmful speech and advocating for offensive, hateful rhetoric to not be permitted (on a suicide forum - a free speech haven for everyone and fuck people who dislike discrimination apparently) is not fascism. The whole "you're actually a misandrist!!!!!!" argument is also ridiculous.

Are you really all that harmed? You act like I just walked up to you and cut your arm off. My speech wasn't harming anyone. You misperceive it as harmful due to your bias. Also I never made that argument that anyone was a misandrist. All I've said was that my post contains both a misogynistic tone as well as a misandrist one making me a general misanthrope. Nothing ridiculous about that claim at all so I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems to me that you're so blinded by anger that you're twisting words and putting them in my mouth.

 

[goldenvirginia]

I've never used the phrase, I've read enough in my entire life. No one has ever read enough to know all they need to know. To assume that you know everything about my character based entirely on a single post without reading any other work I've put out is hardly fair. The fact is you don't know me and it's arrogant of you to assume that you do. I'm not a good man but I'm also not a bad man, I am an idiot just passing through, attempting to help out, and learning. But please do go on making inaccurate snap judgments about someone whilst patting yourself on the back for it.

I've read enough of you. Just clarifying.

 

[GideonVandaleur]

I've read enough of you. Just clarifying.

Okay great, why are you still here then? Move on and have a nice life.

 

[LastLoveLetter]

Also I never made that argument that anyone was a misandrist.

It's funny that you only zero in and take offense to the misogyny angle and have no problem with the misandry angle. If the post had used men as a primary example you would have had no issue with it because you and everyone else who complained are misandrist scum!

 

[motel rooms]

It seems unlikely that this will be accepted or that you will understand where we're coming from, so this is the last comment I'll post on this thread. If multiple members are all raising the same concerns about your output, it could be an opportunity to consider that it could actually be offensive and inappropriate, rather than concluding that we're all humourless, lacking capacity and unimaginative.

The dude fancies himself a prophet, concluding that the incredibly powerful Truth they speak gets rejected solely because everyone but them is a dumbo is simply what prophets do...

 

[GideonVandaleur]

Firstly at no point did l say it should be expunged from the dictionary, secondly idk why the fuck you keep remarking as if you've somehow hammered me with your Reason and Logic when literally everyone can read our exchange and will come to their own conclusions, l strongly suspect it will not be in accordance with your grandiose view of your own intellectual prowess.

People will be assessed on the language they use, if your aim is to win attention by way of using deliberately offensive terminology you really can't complain when some people express their disapproval, and yes, people who express themselves in a way which is deliberately offensive in such a way should be given short shrift. Right-thinking people will naturally express disdain towards those who demand their right to be noisily offensive in public spaces be respected above all else, and in my view on a forum such as this one you should expect to see a lesser tolerance for that shit. You are not being silenced, your freeze peach is not under threat, many other websites are available which would absolutely appreciate that kind of content.

Adults tend not to use the word "retard" tbqh.

If no adult uses it then the word is effectively rendered dead, it's the same thing as advocating for the word to be expunged since no one is ever allowed to use it according to you. How's that for beating you with logic and reason? See the truth is that you wouldn't know logic or reason if it smacked you upside the head. Also if I was looking for attention which is a facile argument you keep bringing up I wouldn't be trying to get you to leave me alone. I only respond when you do. If you want to starve me of attention then stop feeding it by responding to me and let it go. I don't mind if people express disapproval if they're actually being fair and objective about it which none of you have been.