Negative views about life are prohibited.

[Sunset Limited]

This is a cultural norm and is the same everywhere in the world. The vast majority of people sell their lives just to cover living costs. Even though they think life isn't worth living, they can't talk about it. Because it is not within learned behavior patterns. It is forbidden by unwritten cultural norms.

I think this forum is the only place where we can do this. When you realize that all problems are not the result of personal or social mistakes, but natural components of life, that they will never end, and that they arise from the problematic and entropic structure of the universe itself, you come to the realization that all your hopes are just delusions. The only reality is death and futility. Hope is a kind of drunkenness. Religions and all cultural norms were created from millions of lies just to cover up this truth. It is such a powerful and absolute truth that we cannot even count how many lies have been told to hide it.

Why? Just so we can keep breathing in an existence we know is essentially shitty. This actually seems like a pointless challenge that is doomed to fail from the start. That does not make sense. One day even the universe will die. When that moment comes, it will be as if nothing had happened. Here is the meaninglessness.

 

[Vesiira]

I agree. There is still so much stigma around mental health and not liking the reality you're in. If people hear you don't want to live, they immediately make you feel bad for it. It isn't like we chose to think or feel this way. One time my mom asked me, "What happened that was so bad to you, that made you feel this way?" That left me stumped. There are so many things in my life that have made me feel this way, especially wonderful depression. That is such a hard question to simply answer and even if you do they still don't understand. It's so frustrating. No wonder we have to come to a forum and hide our feelings out of fear of being judged.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This is a cultural norm and is the same everywhere in the world. The vast majority of people sell their lives just to cover living costs. Even though they think life isn't worth living, they can't talk about it. Because it is not within learned behavior patterns. It is forbidden by unwritten cultural norms.

I think this forum is the only place where we can do this. When you realize that all problems are not the result of personal or social mistakes, but natural components of life, that they will never end, and that they arise from the problematic and entropic structure of the universe itself, you come to the realization that all your hopes are just delusions. The only reality is death and futility. Hope is a kind of drunkenness. Religions and all cultural norms were created from millions of lies just to cover up this truth. It is such a powerful and absolute truth that we cannot even count how many lies have been told to hide it.

Why? Just so we can keep breathing in an existence we know is essentially shitty. This actually seems like a pointless challenge that is doomed to fail from the start. That does not make sense. One day even the universe will die. When that moment comes, it will be as if nothing had happened. Here is the meaninglessness.

I agree with that post and also what i think : Those religions and cultural norms are pure fiction, lies . And they were created to cover up the truth including that life is bad. Also these norms are taught to children "suffering is part of life and has to be accepted". "only mentally ill people commit suicide it's irrationaL"," life is good" , "death is bad" , "death is to be feared" ," Non-existence is bad and to be feared". .so we all get heavily programmed with all those lies . there are many more lies. I just typed a few.

No we don't have to accept any suffering. much less the extreme pain extreme suffering and extreme torture that is possible. there is no purpose to life. how is it logical to fear non-existence when we all didn't exist for 13.8 billion years before we were born? non-existence means no pain no problems no suffering ever so why is that to be feared? i don't fear death and non-existence , non-existence is the ultimate bliss to me.There is much more.

I could write a book on how bad life is but i prove it in a few sentences thus: 1. Every human or other sentient animal is under threat of Unbearable constant unending pain . There is pain or suffering that is so bad that nothing is worth that , no supposed "good" or pleasureable crap like a sandwich or clickbait youtube video is worth for example getting 3rd degree burns all over 90% of body and face and having to live with that pain and that scarred horror. Every human and other animal ages becomes old decayed. Life is meaningless suffering pain torture lies prison slavery.

Ever deeper honesty book talks about the lies. Also Thomas Ligotti's "conspiracy against the Human race" book.
Also carlo michelstaedter "persuasion and rhetoric" .

Ever Deeper Honesty

How to reduce/prevent/eliminate suffering, and get ever-deeper freedom/peace/love/bliss, and “That”.

www.everdeeperhonesty.com

The Conspiracy Against the Human Race

**In Thomas Ligotti's first nonfiction outing, an exami…

www.goodreads.com

 

[Raindancer]

think this forum is the only place where we can do this. When you realize that all problems are not the result of personal or social mistakes, but natural components of life, that they will never end, and that they arise from the problematic and entropic structure of the universe itself, you come to the realization that all your hopes are just delusions. The only reality is death and futility. Hope is a kind of drunkenness. Religions and all cultural norms were created from millions of lies just to cover up this truth. It is such a powerful and absolute truth that we cannot even count how many lies have been told to hide it.

For me, I would have to say I disagree. There are many people who lead enviable lives and I would say the vast majority of people have hope. Some hope for big things and many just hope for small things that make life worth living. Many also live lives that help others and make huge contributions and wouldn't be considered futile at all. I am sure in both religions and culture everything is not true, but it is true for the people practicing that religion or culture. Not only that it gives comfort and I personally don't see that as a bad thing.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

I see nothing wrong with enjoying what you do, but shoving it down other's throats doesn't work. Telling you are bad is the most important step against pain and if people can't talk about it, it will simply continue. I'm sorry, but if you think censoring people will have any good effect on them, you are deluded. People is so terrified of anyone disagreeing on life it looks like a literal religion.

There are many people who lead enviable lives and I would say the vast majority of people have hope. Some hope for big things and many just hope for small things that make life worth living. Many also live lives that help others and make huge contributions and wouldn't be considered futile at all. I am sure in both religions and culture everything is not true, but it is true for the people practicing that religion or culture. Not only that it gives comfort and I personally don't see that as a bad thing.

What OP means most people globally live in poverty for great part of their lives. I don't know about how "enviable" some are, there is always more suffering than meets the eye, not to be negative, but life is complex. I totally agree with the second statement though, there will always be purpose in helping. About religion, I think there are better ways to find purpose, it has tons of bad consequences.

 

[UKscotty]

I think its important to remember that we are the broken ones. The vast majority of people enjoy and thrive in life, despite difficult times.

Depression has just ruined our chance at life, no matter how we frame it up, depression is the only cause of suicide. We may not even know or realise we have it, but a bleak and negative view of life is the key of depression sadly.

Without depression, the mind wants to live and make the most of it. Yes that means engaging with society for the collective good.

 

[Raindancer]

I see nothing wrong with enjoying what you do, but shoving it down other's throats doesn't work. Telling you are bad is the most important step against pain and if people can't talk about it, it will simply continue. I'm sorry, but if you think censoring people will have any good effect on them, you are deluded. People is so terrified of anyone disagreeing on life it looks like a literal religion.


What OP means most people globally live in poverty for great part of their lives. I don't know about how "enviable" some are, there is always more suffering than meets the eye, not to be negative, but life is complex. I totally agree with the second statement though, there will always be purpose in helping. About religion, I think there are better ways to find purpose, it has tons of bad consequences.

Agreed, I think the reason so many areas of society are a train wreck is because people don't talk to each other, or more importantly people don't listen to each other.

True, there are huge portions of populations whose struggle to survive and get basic needs, I cannot even come close to understanding. Suffering yes, but I have always had basic needs. Saying that though, I do believe many still have hope. Since I have never spoken to those who live in 3rd world countries I cannot speak for them. I guess my assumption is I see their struggle to survive and assume they have at least a bit of hope. Seeing Bedouins having a life in the driest deserts, or all the people living in Yukutska where every minute is working to survive the coldest city.

Unfortunately there are bad consequences when people abuse religions, misrepresent them or outright lie. But it is the people doing those things. I was hurt very deeply by people in the church and stayed away for years. It took me awhile to be able to accept that all people are fallible and make mistakes. As a Christian my entire world view is there is no better or greater purpose.And for myself, without it there is no meaning. Everyone should be able to pursue what gives them peace, meaning or purpose.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Being truly happy and appearing happy are two different things. The only alternative to life is death. So if you do not choose death, then you have to live and this imposes many obligations and responsibilities. Looking happy is one of them. You have to wear a smiling mask and look strong because we instinctively move away from depressed people. To be approved, you have to submit to society's norms.

Life is not a choice but an exposure. We can't stop getting up at the same time every day to go to work, going to the same place on the same road, and doing the same things. If we had a choice, no one would go to work. So, truly loving and obligation + cultural adaptation are different things. If all our needs were met and we all had a simulation at home where we could create our own universe, no one would want to go out. What I mean is that life, with all its mechanics, is not an existence that actually deserves human attention and that we really prefer and approve of.

I'm a musician, and I've probably lived a better life than at least eighty percent of all people who have ever lived. I never got up early, I never had to do a job I didn't approve of, I never had to do a job I didn't like, my time and my life always belonged to me. Maybe I didn't make a lot of money, but I always had a guitar in my hand and only surrounded myself with people I preferred. This is a great wealth. If you saw me laughing with my friends, you would think I was happy. Maybe that might have been true at the time, but really it was just a way to numb myself and forget what I was really feeling. Like music and everything. If you asked me and I told you my real answer, I would say that I actually like sunset limited. In fact, if you had asked me this question when I was in my 20s, I wouldn't have even been able to tell you how I truly felt. Life and the human body are too complicated to experience and understand. So we get professional help to make sense of it. So, sometimes we don't even know what we're really thinking and what we're actually feeling. That's why psychologists drive expensive cars.

You can be sure that most of us do not know whether we are happy or not. We are exposed to lies, disinformation, manipulation, silencing, and cultural norms that force us to fit into a single mold, and we forget who we really are and what we want, and stop questioning. Even its owner has long forgotten the truth behind a smiling face. Now, when he looks in the mirror, he thinks the mask he sees is himself. Life is a spiral of lies pointing and protecting each other. Because there is no other way to continue to exist with such crappy mechanics. There's a difference between having to like something because you have no other choice and actually choosing it willingly. Sisyphus is the best example of this. It is a metaphor that reveals human helplessness in the best possible way.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yeah, wage slavery can't be executed well if the person doing it has negative (i.e. realistic) thoughts about life. For you to be a good cog in the machine, you must have positive views and be willing to enjoy the fact that you're trapped in a machine and hence destined to work until old age

 

[FuneralCry]

I don't believe in the idea of "happiness" in the first place, to me it's certainly very delusional in this reality, existence itself truly is the ultimate problem, I see it as such a terrible tragedy and abomination how life even exists at all. The so called "negativity" is really just those who have awareness, I know that I could never be delusional enough to wish to decay from age in this futile existence where there is endless potential for cruelty and harm.

 

[Adûnâi]

When you realize that all problems are not the result of personal or social mistakes, but natural components of life, that they will never end, and that they arise from the problematic and entropic structure of the universe itself, you come to the realization that all your hopes are just delusions. The only reality is death and futility. Hope is a kind of drunkenness. Religions and all cultural norms were created from millions of lies just to cover up this truth. It is such a powerful and absolute truth that we cannot even count how many lies have been told to hide it.

Eh, if you got to live a life of luxury and freedom for thousands of years, wouldn't your puny human brain be content to a large degree? That life could be just around the corner, after the technological singularity.

I do agree in principle, but in practice, plenty of people are happy with their shitty lives (and lies). My mom would like me to be independent and not force her to care for me, but whenever I suggested killing myself (thus freeing her), she objected to it. Go figure.

And indeed, this forum is tolerant to this one taboo topic. Even incels, despite how daring their sexual rhetoric can get, usually shy away from suicide - even though one of their dictums is "It never began"!

 

[Linda]

You are free to express your views anywhere you want; you are not restricted to this forum. The fact that some people will disagree with you need not stop you. If you want to change the world - and I don't know whether you do - you must recognise that you won't do it by conforming to all the conventional norms. You have to rock the boat.