My thoughts on the train method

[metrochan]

I've recently read about the train method in this forum, and I've seen many people point out that a big reason not to do it is because of the trauma we will inflict on the train drivers.

I don't think that's a sole reason not to use this method. My explanation is...

Most of them have way more support than some of us could ever dream of having

Normal people make up most of society... obviously. And that includes most professions, especially engineering, which is where most of the train drivers come from. If you're a normal person, you have the "privilege" of being able to communicate your emotions and needs more thoroughly with the professionals who are supposed to help you. These professionals are also easier to find since you speak a language that a lot of people understand and that the world is built around.

That's not the case for someone like me, for instance. My mind is so neurodivergent that most people simply don't have the time or desire to understand what I'm going through. I'd have to find another person whose mind "works" like mine, but again, that's not how this works. It's like searching for a blind person to cure your blindness.

And again, I don't blame it all on people for most of this. I'm sure there are neurotypical people who genuinely want to help neurodivergent people, but life is so difficult and painful that by the end of the workday, they've simply run out of energy and just aren't able to help us. That's just how life is in this world: there's no place for genuine altruism.

Returning to the train method: yes, it will inflict an unfair emotional pain on the train drivers, but since when the world was fair?

I'm sure most of people who use the train method don't do it to attack others. I don't want to harm anybody. But again, why has CTB become a taboo in society? Why have the CTB methods become so difficult to properly execute? If there's someone to blame the pain inflicted by this method, it's the governments and society. They've prohibited allowing us to escape from this corrupt reality. And so, some of us don't have any more methods for escaping other than this.

In summary:

1. Most train drivers and observers are just normal people.
2. Normal people have way more resources available for mental recovery. They also have more connections they can use to find mental health professionals.
3. Normal people have a family.
4. Life isn't fair.
5. Governments and society make it so that this is the only CTB method some of us have.​

I'm sure there's something else I'm missing. But I think that's it for now. I really do pray that my CTB won't harm anybody, I really do. It just seems that this life doesn't want it to be that way.

Thank you for reading.

 

[wehamuho]

u should not care much what people on the internet say, they cant hold u or anything! if anything this virtue signaling makes me wanna die even harder, am i supposed to believe most people give a shit about us? that most train people EVEN has the chance to end like us??? dont be ridiculous pls! we have the certainty our lifes suck while they'll have normal lives! lol! and if people overhwelmingly dont care 'bout us suicidal peasants but we must about them they are winning the anti suicide fight! they held themselves victim hostages and won!!

think that by caring 'bout everyone ur ignoring the strongest suffering ones and that most people go to have normal lifes and way better support therefore by forbidding the train ur failing to balance the suffering approprately

 

[melon-melancholy]

And that includes most professions, especially engineering, which is where most of the train drivers come from.

I'm not sure if engineering is where most train drivers come from. I know in NYC thats not the case at all.

 

[metrochan]

I'm not sure if engineering is where most train drivers come from. I know in NYC thats not the case at all.

Well, at least something like that.

Another point is, it's not like these people are going into careers with a tougher job market, like studying philosophy or being an artist or poet. If they managed to become train drivers, there's a good chance they studied in college something related to trains, like engineering, which would give them an advantage in the job market. There are exceptions... of course.

 

[PugnaEnjoyer2137]

This is such a flawed assumption to have that "Most of them have way more support than some of us could ever dream of having". You won't know that. You won't know in what mental state your train driver is, or will be when you jump. You don't, and won't know the train driver that will be behind the steering wheel and you cannot just assume, that they're better off, have more access to mental health help or that they have a family. Might as well be going through a crushing divorce, or might have lost somebody to CTB as well. That's such a crazy and far fetched assumption.
If you want to CTB via train, nobody can really stop you, it's your decision, but saying that "(...) they are just normal people" is completely reductive. It's just a cope.

 

[applepie]

This is such a flawed assumption to have that "Most of them have way more support than some of us could ever dream of having". You won't know that. You won't know in what mental state your train driver is, or will be when you jump. You don't, and won't know the train driver that will be behind the steering wheel and you cannot just assume, that they're better off, have more access to mental health help or that they have a family. Might as well be going through a crushing divorce, or might have lost somebody to CTB as well. That's such a crazy and far fetched assumption.
If you want to CTB via train, nobody can really stop you, it's your decision, but saying that "(...) they are just normal people" is completely reductive. It's just a cope.

I completely agree with you, this is such a stupid self-centered view. You never know what other people might be going through.

Also, I've heard about a person from my vicinity who survived jumping in front of the train and whose legs basically got amputated on spot.

 

[melon-melancholy]

Well, at least something like that.

Another point is, it's not like these people are going into careers with a tougher job market, like studying philosophy or being an artist or poet. If they managed to become train drivers, there's a good chance they studied in college something related to trains, like engineering, which would give them an advantage in the job market. There are exceptions... of course.

In Nyc all you need is a GED or high school diploma https://www.mta.info/careers/train-operator

 

[metrochan]

This is such a flawed assumption to have that "Most of them have way more support than some of us could ever dream of having". You won't know that. You won't know in what mental state your train driver is, or will be when you jump. You don't, and won't know the train driver that will be behind the steering wheel and you cannot just assume, that they're better off, have more access to mental health help or that they have a family. Might as well be going through a crushing divorce, or might have lost somebody to CTB as well. That's such a crazy and far fetched assumption.
If you want to CTB via train, nobody can really stop you, it's your decision, but saying that "(...) they are just normal people" is completely reductive. It's just a cope.

So this is why I said "most of them." I know there are exceptions, maybe more than I thought. But I still believe that normal people make up a big percentage of train drivers and observers, and also that society is built around their manners and ways of thinking. What I'm saying is their access to help compared to that of some of us is greater.

 

[whorror]

u should not care much what people on the internet say, they cant hold u or anything! if anything this virtue signaling makes me wanna die even harder, am i supposed to believe most people give a shit about us? that most train people EVEN has the chance to end like us??? dont be ridiculous pls! we have the certainty our lifes suck while they'll have normal lives! lol! and if people overhwelmingly dont care 'bout us suicidal peasants but we must about them they are winning the anti suicide fight! they held themselves victim hostages and won!!

think that by caring 'bout everyone ur ignoring the strongest suffering ones and that most people go to have normal lifes and way better support therefore by forbidding the train ur failing to balance the suffering approprately

You don't know what other people are going through, you don't have a certainty that they have normal lifes. Some would probably go through the same shit we are going through, if we didn't receive that much empathy from people it doesn't mean not to show empathy for others.

 

[applepie]

So this is why I said "most of them." I know there are exceptions, maybe more than I thought. But I still believe that normal people make up a big percentage of train drivers and observers, and also that society is built around their manners and ways of thinking. What I'm saying is their access to help compared to that of some of us is greater.

Even if, so what? Does that mean that it allows you to cause them suffering? To risk that they will get a life-long trauma or something? Having access to help and getting help does not automatically mean that it will work. You might ruin someone's life.

 

[PugnaEnjoyer2137]

So this is why I said "most of them." I know there are exceptions, maybe more than I thought. But I still believe that normal people make up a big percentage of train drivers and observers, and also that society is built around their manners and ways of thinking. What I'm saying is their access to help compared to that of some of us is greater.

But around what you base your assumption that it is "most of them"? It's completely baseless.
What does it even mean to be a normal person? I guess I could've been easily considered a normal person for many, and yet I am still here, and my pain isn't greater or smaller than yours. If you CTB via train, you will most probably absolutely traumatize the train driver, and you will never know how, and even if, they will be able to deal with that guilt. You have no idea whether they have healthy coping mechanism. You don't, and won't know whether they will be able to access mental health institutions or specialists.
Not to mention fair share of neurodivergent people are into trains themselves. How you can be sure, that the driver on that day is neurotypical?
It's ultimately your choice, but you should know that you will be traumatising the driver, you will be a nuisance to the people taking the train and the assumptions you have made are a big cope.

 

[Set Real Goul]

My uncle is a train driver. He has worked as both a freight train driver and a subway driver, and now he works in their depot. He has no family and has been drinking his whole life. A lot of train drivers struggle with alcohol because it's such a stressful job. He knows people who were "ordinary people" until they developed PTSD after suicide incidents and eventually drank themselves into ruin.

I understand that this is an anecdotal experience and that the quality of psychological support varies greatly from country to country. But that's exactly why I don't understand where the confidence comes from that train drivers have more resources available for psychological recovery. At the very least, that's a questionable assumption, and a flawed conclusion is then built on top of it.

And that's without even considering how many people may actually be affected. Depending on the railway system, there can be two people in the cab — the main driver and the assistant — and when college students are doing practical training, there can even be four people in the cab.

Everyone decides for themselves what to do and who they might traumatize or shock with their CTB, but making up this idea of "normal people" (a generalization that doesn't really mean anything — I'm glad you at least didn't say "normie" :3) and treating them as if they're somehow privileged because of it is misguided

I hope I didn't come across as rude.

 

[never mind me]

Like many others I don't agree with OP's assumption that train drivers are in general better off then people on SaSu. There is no way to know. At least where I live you don't need to study to become a train driver and it is certainly not a job with high prestige.
That being said, I wouldn't see the risk of traumatizing the train driver as too much of a reason against train suicide. Train suicides have been happening for decades, so someone who chooses to become a train driver knows that he might one day run his train over someone who wants to kill himself. Imo that is simply a risk that is associated with the job. Very much like people who decide to work for the police may be attacked or even be shot at at some point during their career.
Tbh I would be more worried about only being hurt but not killed in train suicide. I also imagine it to be very hard regarding SI to stay lying in perfect position and not try to move away at the last moment.

 

[metrochan]

Normal people is what I normally see every time I go outside. I've tried. I've tried many times in the past trying to convince myself that normal people are nice and open minded and would get traumatized by my CTB.

I tried to understand what makes normal people feel uncomfortable every time I'm around them. I tried to understand why all my friends left me. I tried to understand why people would kick me from their friend groups. I tried to understand why would people mock me for the way I talk or something. God, even here on SaSu I get called "st*pid."

I tried to understand why I never got a voice to express myself. I was never able to express myself to people and that's why my post and title may have been inconsistent. I've never got to practice sharing my thoughts well enough.

When those kinds of things happen to me it's not rare for me to think that everyone hates me and would like to see me CTB. Maybe when SaSu users go outside, people treat them well and would get traumatized if they CTB'd. But for me, that's not the case. Every time I go outside, people remind me that I should get away from them.

I hope I didn't come across as rude.

Thank you for caring about that

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

No. Just no. As others pointed out, you do not know their life or what they're going through or if your actions will be the thing to push them over the edge.

 

[fleurdelune]

i agree with everyone else saying this is a bad take, i'm afraid :( imho methods like train or jumping in a public place should be absolute last resorts because of how they affect other people, not to mention the fact that getting hit by a train could really fuck up your body if you live

 

[SilentVelvet]

The ironic thing about that method is that people will feel sorry for the train driver, but not for the person who was desperate enough to choose such a violent way to die. I personally wouldn't choose that method, but if we're being real, almost any suicide can end up traumatizing someone.

Hanging, SN, jumping, etc. all carry the possibility that someone, often a person from your close social circle, will be the one who finds you. And I can imagine that being especially traumatic when it's someone you actually knew and cared about.

I just personally wouldn't want anyone to have to pick up pieces of me.

 

[iw2begone]

The ironic thing about that method is that people will feel sorry for the train driver, but not for the person who was desperate enough to choose such a violent way to die. I personally wouldn't choose that method, but if we're being real, almost any suicide can end up traumatizing someone.

Hanging, SN, jumping, etc. all carry the possibility that someone, often a person from your close social circle, will be the one who finds you. And I can imagine that being especially traumatic when it's someone you actually knew and cared about.

I just personally wouldn't want anyone to have to pick up pieces of me.

people have a surprising lack of empathy for people who choose suicide, instead focusing on how much of an inconvenience it is

 

[mustard tiger]

If I were a train driver I would be more annoyed with the interruption to my schedule. Lots of different kinds of people out there. Who knows.

 

[name2come]

There is a fairly obvious difference in the trauma of finding a dead body and in being unwillingly made to kill someone.

Look, I have some empathy for people for act out of desperation and throw themselves in front of a train, but this discussion is not an act of desperation. It is a calm and considered effort to justify abusing a stranger. It's an effort to rationalize such an act. And let's be frank, it's an incredibly underwhelming attempt at rationalizing such an act since it basically hinges on a nihilistic narcissism that declares no one else can matter if you want to do something. If you sit down and try to tell yourself it's okay to do something, it's no longer an act of a desperate person.

And look, do whatever you see fit. We all make our own choices in this world. But if you choose to bring harm and pain to others, to strangers, don't expect anyone else to feel much empathy towards you. You can leave this world without causing this much harm in your wake.

 

[wehamuho]

You don't know what other people are going through, you don't have a certainty that they have normal lifes. Some would probably go through the same shit we are going through, if we didn't receive that much empathy from people it doesn't mean not to show empathy for others.

u dont know what WE are going through!! bro just look data! long term suicidality + the many layers of social failure we get is extremely rare!!!! and u try to convince me thats somehow common lol! you cant read minds so you cant be confident lol! what is this. the empathy part is hilarious, nobody chooses train as his first method... almost nobody cares overall lets be realistic, thats notable in all parts of life & society & how shit mental discussion is, no im not sayin to go train no matter what i am saying everything else fails why cant we? every comment failed to address why to accept then anti suicide as victorious and means accept wrongs!
to every1 angry at op just TELL ME why are so obligated to endure the unendurable when all methods fail when the chances someone ending as bad as us are extremely unlikely. and yes i know people get hurt but to claim most people has not even SOME support at all?? thats already an improvement over me!!

people have a surprising lack of empathy for people who choose suicide, instead focusing on how much of an inconvenience it is

every comment so far has rationalized that, who cares what op's going thru to consider this right? he's the enemy for opposing our holy ideals!!

 

[fluorescentpearl]

As I said once, I was on a train that caused someone's death / suicide, and the reactions people gave honestly made all the empathy leave me forever for that stuff
Just everyone complaining and blaming the jumper, calling them selfish and shitty and hating them for making them miss work, saying they hope they survive crippled, it was awful

 

[iw2begone]

As I said once, I was on a train that caused someone's death / suicide, and the reactions people gave honestly made all the empathy leave me forever for that stuff
Just everyone complaining and blaming the jumper, calling them selfish and shitty and hating them for making them miss work, saying they hope they survive crippled, it was awful

this is why I hate people, the vast majority of people are like this and don't appear to have any advanced thought

 

[wehamuho]

As I said once, I was on a train that caused someone's death / suicide, and the reactions people gave honestly made all the empathy leave me forever for that stuff
Just everyone complaining and blaming the jumper, calling them selfish and shitty and hating them for making them miss work, saying they hope they survive crippled, it was awful

that sounds so horrible!!! i dont wanna rely on anecdotes, i am open to being wrong and that you know? but i had the same experience once. like, if such part of people care just 'bout that, dont you think the empathy thing loses at least a bit of weight???

 

[Risingsadness]

Even if, so what? Does that mean that it allows you to cause them suffering? To risk that they will get a life-long trauma or something? Having access to help and getting help does not automatically mean that it will work. You might ruin someone's life.

Well what's the alternative? If we really can't bear life anymore and there's no other means to do it? I'm sure most of us don't want to cause suffering for anyone else but don't know what else to do. I feel like my being alive is already causing a lot of suffering to others.

 

[ginadu]

Normal. What does that even mean? Why punish someone just because you think they are normal. They are still human. It would be traumatic and maybe ruin their lives. The passengers might be traumatised too. Knowing someone was lying mangled under a train I was on would shock me to my core. I wouldn't have to see a body, just knowing what happened would be enough of a stressor. Trauma doesn't have to be passed on. It seems unfair to make assumptions and decide someone else will be ok because they have access to support.

 

[yui_suicisawa]

Rail suicide is fast and has a high success rate. Put your IDGAF cap on and roll with it if it's your method. Yes, train conductors are traumatized. If you're desperate enough to kill yourself via train, then you probably know that and don't care. It's not wrong to not care. Your death will traumatize your family and loved ones, yet that doesn't stop you from pursuing suicide, so why does anyone think a train conductor would stand in the way of you CTBing?

 

[itsgone2]

. If you're a normal person, you have the "privilege" of being able to communicate your emotions and needs more thoroughly with the professionals who are supposed to help you.

I actually agree with your overall sentiment, but not this.
TBH, anytime the word privilege is invoked, it's used to support a weak argument.
I worked for a railroad and most conductors and engineers are high school graduates or less. It's a difficult job with a tough work schedule and turnover can be high. Many come from poor backgrounds. Benefits in rail are typically good so they do have access to help.

But again, I agree that if this is what a person chooses as their method, then it's ok. But yes we've had trainmen out for periods of time after these events because they're shaken up by it. Yes you see the person or persons (we had a couple commit suicide once) and no you can't possibly stop in time.
In all cases the employees eventually returned to work.

 

[ardea]

it's been said, but you're operating under a lot of big assumptions. at least in my area, train drivers need only be 21 with a highschool diploma to drive a train, and everything else is taught on the job. in the uk, the minimum age is 18. even if the driver is an engineer, who's to say an engineer can't be mentally unwell? I was an engineering student a few months ago and it's certainly one of the most rigorous and soul draining majors one can take. I switched majors but am still in engineering chemistry and even that's doing a number on me. you can't just assume that because someone has a job, they must also be mentally stable, have a support system, etc. the fact that life isn't fair doesn't justify making it less fair. and besides all that, even if this theoretical driver breezed through life and has easy access to professional support, there's no guarantee that they can be cured. if professionals could just cure people of the effects of trauma, this forum would have much fewer members.