Venting My therapist is holding my SN

[MyStateKilledMe]

Feel free to report me and get me banned for this statement. This is a pro-choice forum, that includes the choice to try treatment.

Unless you're a therapist or a FixThe26-er, I have no intention to ever report you or get you banned. The 1st Amendment of the US Constitution protects your right to speak your opinions and tell me my opinions are wrong and/or stupid, just as it protects my right to do the same. We threw the British tea into the Boston Harbor for a damn good reason: To send them a message that they can't tell us what to do! And it worked.

Oh, and I still believe that the only good therapist is an unemployed therapist. Therapists are actually trained NOT to help you. "But how?" Go ahead: try asking a therapist for advice. They'll just tell you: "what do you think?" or "you tell me!" Why? Because therapy schools brainwash them into thinking that giving advice is bad. Or because they're dumber than a box of rocks, and don't know what to tell you but refuse to admit it.

 

[Dead beat dad]

Therapists aren't your friends.

Can't spell therapist with spelling 'the rapist'

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

Can't spell therapist with spelling 'the rapist'

"The rapist" is right. Except the rape they do to patients is the emotional rape.

 

[HopelessFight]

Unless you're a therapist or a FixThe26-er, I have no intention to ever report you or get you banned. The 1st Amendment of the US Constitution protects your right to speak your opinions and tell me my opinions are wrong and/or stupid, just as it protects my right to do the same. We threw the British tea into the Boston Harbor for a damn good reason: To send them a message that they can't tell us what to do! And it worked.

Oh, and I still believe that the only good therapist is an unemployed therapist. Therapists are actually trained NOT to help you. "But how?" Go ahead: try asking a therapist for advice. They'll just tell you: "what do you think?" or "you tell me!" Why? Because therapy schools brainwash them into thinking that giving advice is bad. Or because they're dumber than a box of rocks, and don't know what to tell you but refuse to admit it.

Well, I'm not American, so the US constitution doesn't apply to me at all. But yes, thank you for respecting my opinion, just like I respect yours.

In addition, I don't think there is a rule prohibiting therapists to be on this forum, considering they respect the pro-choice aspect of the forum, which only a minority would do (unfortunately).

They'll just tell you: "what do you think?" or "you tell me!" Why? Because therapy schools brainwash them into thinking that giving advice is bad.

I'm currently seeing a therapist who's absolutely not like that, although I did met many therapists who indeed showed that kind of behavior in the past.

and don't know what to tell you but refuse to admit it.

This is a real issue many therapists, especially psychiatrists, have. They don't want to admit they are wrong or have no idea what to do.

I absolutely understand the majority of us, including myself, have bad experiences with therapists. However, there should be some nuance about this. Therapy does help some people, for others it's useless. If someone feels therapy, or talking to a therapist, helps them, we shouldn't discourage them in doing so.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

In addition, I don't think there is a rule prohibiting therapists to be on this forum, considering they respect the pro-choice aspect of the forum, which only a minority would do (unfortunately).

I'm not aware of such a rule, either. But I'm wary about them either way. A therapist joining this site could be a mole (a Mafia term for "infiltrator").

I'm currently seeing a therapist who's absolutely not like that, although I did met many therapists who indeed showed that kind of behavior in the past.

Maybe that's an American thing. We have a "user pays" healthcare system, including mental health. Insurance doesn't help much and is very expensive, unless you get a really good coverage plan through work. And you still gotta pay a part of the fee to see a medical expert every time you go. Family therapists add another layer to the problem. The child sitting in their office is not the same as the person paying (the patient's parents). So it doesn't benefit the therapists to teach the patient ways to stop the abusive situation he/she lives in, because then the patient won't come back. At the same time, the therapist's pretends to be the child's friend and helper. The only exceptions are signs of physical abuse (bruises, scratches), because US laws require therapists to report it to the police.

Covid lockdowns (my reason for joining this site) add yet another problem. Liberal politicians love the lockdowns, because they increase people's dependence on the government, and most therapists VOTE for those politicians. So if I see a therapist for the soul-killing loneliness the lockdowns are causing, they may give me some cheap, useless words of encouragement, but they'll NEVER tell me to act against those politicians or otherwise actually help me. Which would be the only solution to my problem. I ended up doing just that: joining a radical conservative group that was still willing to socialize in the midst of the pLandemic.

Anyway... If a patient sees a therapist, gets quick advice, and never returns (because he got what he wanted), the therapist loses future income. So the therapists are trained to withhold advice, and worse yet, dangle it in front of the patient without actually giving it. Then continuing to to do, until the patient eventually comes up with his own solution, or gives up in frustration and stops coming. But it'll be months before either things happens, thus bringing in months of easy, effortless income with no actual work done by the therapist. Now you know why I hate therapists.

 

[Carrotcake]

I also think that the difference in system explains some of the differences in therapy-experience.

As a fellow dutchie, we don't pay for therapy ourselves and therapists have no incentive to keep you in therapy. In fact, in my experience they are incentivized to "treat" you as quickly as possible. More people in&out means more cash.

This of course has a negative effect on quality of treatment as well.

 

[HopelessFight]

Yes, I can imagine there being huge differences between the US and Europe and I understand @MyStateKilledMe and other user's position after having negative experiences with therapists. And, with all due respect to Americans and I don't want to start a political debate about it here, the health care system in the US is just fucked up and I can certainly believe there are many therapists over there trying to keep you in treatment as long as possible just for the $$$, instead of helping you.

Where I live, Belgium, is known as having horrible mental health care. Our physical health care system is great, probably top of the world, but if it comes for mental issues, we are one of the worst. We have the highest suicide rate of Europe and politicians aren't doing shit about it. The Dutch (as in: Netherlands) suicide hotline offers free online sessions with a psychologist. They accepted me, knowing I was Belgian and they had the right to refuse me, because they know how crap the Belgian system is, so they decided to accept Belgians. Not saying these therapy sessions were extremely useful, but at least they were offered for free.

In Belgium, psychiatrists are covered by the national health care insurance so you pay about €12 per session or about €3 if you have a low income. Psychologists however, are not covered, so you have to pay them full price. This results in decent psychologists only being accessable for middle/upper class people. Mine charges €65 for a 45 minutes session, but he's clearly not doing it to make as much money as possible and is actually giving useful advice. Much better than most of the psychiatrists I've met in my life.

My main point: we all have our own experiences with therapists and I'm convinced most of us (mostly) have negative experiences. So do I. What some psychiatrists did to me in the past, man, I get fucking pissed just thinking about it. But therapy is an option for many people and if someone, like OP, feels like talking to therapists does help (obviously he felt betrayed because of the SN thing, but he clearly had a good relationship with him before), we should not discourage people from going to therapy by making comments like "therapists are cops" , "therapists are trained not to help you", "the rapists".

Let's everyone make his own descision about therapy on this forum, as that's what pro-choice means, but let's not discourage users from seeing therapists just because our own experiences with them are bad or even horrible.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

Let's everyone make his own descision about therapy on this forum, as that's what pro-choice means, but let's not discourage users from seeing therapists just because our own experiences with them are bad or even horrible.

You're right. However... we're doing the right thing by warning people how unhelpful, if not harmful, therapy can be. The OP came into therapy expecting real help, and was stabbed in the back. As was I.

For comparison, consider this. Medications and supplements that didn't receive US government approval must carry a warning on the label: "This product is not intended to cure, treat, or diagnose any disease." This way, the manufacturer is not accused of false advertising. Therapists will never tell a patient that their therapy is not guaranteed to work or even work at all, so we're doing it for them. Because the last thing we want as vulnerable, desperate person coming for help, is not getting that help.

 

[HopelessFight]

You're right. However... we're doing the right thing by warning people how unhelpful, if not harmful, therapy can be. The OP came into therapy expecting real help, and was stabbed in the back. As was I.

I fully agree, but the focus here should be on the word "can".

 

[London2021]

You're right. However... we're doing the right thing by warning people how unhelpful, if not harmful, therapy can be. The OP came into therapy expecting real help, and was stabbed in the back. As was I.

For comparison, consider this. Medications and supplements that didn't receive US government approval must carry a warning on the label: "This product is not intended to cure, treat, or diagnose any disease." This way, the manufacturer is not accused of false advertising. Therapists will never tell a patient that their therapy is not guaranteed to work or even work at all, so we're doing it for them. Because the last thing we want as vulnerable, desperate person coming for help, is not getting that help.

Wondered if a US person could explain something basically learnt from TV dramas. Are many psychiatrists also therapists? Here in UK it would be rare - certainly under the NHS anyway. Therapists are rarely doctor's. Our system much like the Dutch except totally free . And in MH totally crap. You can of course try have private insurance on top but costs a fortune with pre existing conditions. Ironically many admissions to hospital are to the hidden part of the private sector - NHS closed too many beds and crisis care options and so now have to pay over the odds for private beds to meet the need.

 

[HopelessFight]

To be clear, when I referred to a "therapist", I meant any health care worker offering therapy, in particular psychiatrists and psychologists. So for me, a psychiatrist is a therapist. Sorry for the confusion about it, there's often a difference in UK/US English and language barriers don't make it easy this way.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

To be clear, when I referred to a "therapist", I meant any health care worker offering therapy, in particular psychiatrists and psychologists. So for me, a psychiatrist is a therapist. Sorry for the confusion about it, there's often a difference in UK/US English and language barriers don't make it easy this way.

Yet another US/EU difference. In the US, psychiatrists are not therapists---they're doctors. They prescribe medications and focus on the biomedical aspects of the brain, not feelings. Therapists are practitioners who treat patients by non-medical means. This includes massage workers, chiropractors, Reiki healers, and more. But when used as a noun by itself, without a modifier or clarifying context, "therapist" refers to psychotherapists---people who ask you stupid questions and laugh at you when you share your troubles.

That being said, any "therapist" or doctor in the US is basically a cop without a gun and a badge. They all can have you arrested like a criminal, if you admit to having CTB thoughts. Lucky for me, I know better. So whenever they ask me about it, I give a resounding "no". I also snicker to myself, thinking "nice try, you filthy animal".

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

I also think that the difference in system explains some of the differences in therapy-experience.

As a fellow dutchie, we don't pay for therapy ourselves and therapists have no incentive to keep you in therapy. In fact, in my experience they are incentivized to "treat" you as quickly as possible. More people in&out means more cash.

This of course has a negative effect on quality of treatment as well.

Poor people here actually do get free healthcare covered by the government in most states I think. The problem with this is that you end up with terrible therapists who don't know what they're doing and only offer the cheapest & often the most harmful types of therapy because it's mostly what is covered by the government. When it comes down to it, both psychology and psychiatry are about money & liability, not helping people.

Health insurance companies discriminate against psychotherapy. Congress has passed laws mandating mental health "parity" (equal coverage for medical and mental health conditions) but health insurers circumvent them. This has led to class action lawsuits against health insurance companies, but discrimination persists.

One way health insurers circumvent parity laws is by shunting patients to the briefest and cheapest therapies. Another way is by paying only for therapy that is so impersonal and dehumanizing that patients stop going. Health insurers do not say the treatment decisions are driven by financial self-interest. They say the treatments are scientifically proven—and point to treatment guidelines like those just issued by the APA.

It's bad enough most Americans don't have adequate mental health coverage without also being gaslighted and told that inadequate therapy is the "best" therapy.

 

[Poisonblood]

Never trust a psychiatrist with anything, especially your CTB method. Psychiatrists are trained liars and gaslighters and many of them are sociopaths. They don't give a damn about you, only the money of your family.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

Never trust a psychiatrist with anything, especially your CTB method. Psychiatrists are trained liars and gaslighters and many of them are sociopaths. They don't give a damn about you, only the money of your family.

You can say THAT again! I told my therapist many times how my family was emotionally abusing me. She just laughed at me, took their side, said that it's because they love me, and basically rubbed the misery back in my face. I took up drinking because of her, and still drink regularly to this day.

 

[Lucifer'sRight]

I know how you feel. The method I had probably wouldn't have worked anyway but my gp managed to talk me into destroying my benzos. The therapist wasn't doing this to betray your trust, he genuinely has a duty of care to report you.

with all respect, no he doesn't. what you call "duty of care" is reporting op to people that give zero shits about the ops suffering, and would happily extend it whilst unethically taking op's freedom away, without consent. all the therapist cares about is to keep himself satisfied with his work, by believing that he actually has a great influence on people's lives and "saves them" by prolongation of someone's pain.
he betrayed op's trust, how can u say he cares? he cares only about himself.

 

[Tackingintothewind]

I wasn't saying it was a good thing but it is known as "duty of care". If a therapist violates this they will lose their jobs if found out and be unable to work in the field again. So he had a "duty of care"

with all respect, no he doesn't. what you call "duty of care" is reporting op to people that give zero shits about the ops suffering, and would happily extend it whilst unethically taking op's freedom away, without consent. all the therapist cares about is to keep himself satisfied with his work, by believing that he actually has a great influence on people's lives and "saves them" by prolongation of someone's pain.
he betrayed op's trust, how can u say he cares? he cares only about himself.

 

[http-410]

I'd be interested to hear how this turned out. Would you like to give us an update, @mittensxx? Only if you want to, of course.

 

[mittensxx]

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been able to keep up with all the responses (wasn't expecting to get so many hah).
Long story short - I went back in last week, not feeling as distressed as I did the first time around.
He explained that he can give it back to me without reporting me, if I sign a piece of paper stating that I'm taking the SN back and I'm not in immediate danger.
(The problem first time around was that he could tell I was in a really bad place and was concerned about me in that moment).

I'm letting him keep it for now, but at least I know that I can get it back anytime I want :)
And I know this isn't how most therapists would act in this situation, but I truly believe that he actually cares about how I decide to live (or not live) my life.

 

[HopelessFight]

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been able to keep up with all the responses (wasn't expecting to get so many hah).
Long story short - I went back in last week, not feeling as distressed as I did the first time around.
He explained that he can give it back to me without reporting me, if I sign a piece of paper stating that I'm taking the SN back and I'm not in immediate danger.
(The problem first time around was that he could tell I was in a really bad place and was concerned about me in that moment).

I'm letting him keep it for now, but at least I know that I can get it back anytime I want :)
And I know this isn't how most therapists would act in this situation, but I truly believe that he actually cares about how I decide to live (or not live) my life.

It's good to hear things between you and your therapist are good now, after he broke your trust. I know many people are going to repeat how evil therapists are, but really, there are good ones out there. If you feel you have a good relationship with your therapist and you feel like it helps you go on with life, absolutely give it a chance.

Just note that, if you feel extremely bad and want the SN back because you have decided to CTB, the therapist will probably be aware what your intentions are and might not be willing to give it back to you anymore. I don't believe you can get it back "anytime" you want.

 

[mittensxx]

Just note that, if you feel extremely bad and want the SN back because you have decided to CTB, the therapist will probably be aware what your intentions are and might not be willing to give it back to you anymore. I don't believe you can get it back "anytime" you want.

Yeah that does worry me. I might get it back while I'm not feeling like crap, just to have it in my house. Otherwise what you said might happen - I show up in a horrible state and he won't give it to me.

 

[HopelessFight]

Yeah that does worry me. I might get it back while I'm not feeling like crap, just to have it in my house. Otherwise what you said might happen - I show up in a horrible state and he won't give it to me.

Well, it sounds like to choice is up to you now.

My opinion: do you want to have the SN because you believe there could be a moment your life has become unbearable and have tried enough therapy options without success, having no perspective on a good life anymore? Well, it might be a relief knowing you have a way out. At least for me it feels like it's a relief having it at home. In that case, I personally would ask it back ASAP.

Do you think you might use it in an emotional, impulsive state while you might have regretted it the next day? In that case, maybe it's better to leave it with your therapist. If used correctly and not being found, you will not survive SN. Taking SN is a permanent decision. And there are people who posted their experiences on this forum taking SN impulsivly, being found immediately after taking and survived - it's not fun.

So basically, think it through what you really want. But only you can decide, don't let others influence you.

 

[mittensxx]

Well, it sounds like to choice is up to you now.

So basically, think it through what you really want. But only you can decide, don't let others influence you.

That's great advice, very well said @DutchSuicidalPerson!
I think for me the problem is that even on my "good" days, I still can't picture a future for myself or feel happy about living (which is a big part of life!). I ultimately don't see a point in waiting for my life to pass me by until I die of old age one day.