My theory for the suicide rate going up

[Kev]

So in a recent thread, "Any guesses for why the suicide rate is going up?", I spent like a decent chunk of time contemplating, analyzing, and writing a relatively elaborate theory to answer this question. In that time, the thread got locked a few minutes before I finished my reply because of some serious off topic tangents and arguments, so it did not let me post the reply. I spent too much time and effort to get cockblocked like that, so I'm posting it as a new thread.

This was the post:

I'm the only person I know who is openly suicidal, so I only have my thoughts and experiences to base my answer off of, but personally for me, it just comes down to disillusionment about life.

Like others have said, the widespread use of social media, television, and just escapist entertainment in general have implanted unrealistically high expectations of what life should be in peoples' heads, especially to impressionable young minds. Combine that with commonplace access to all of humanity's knowledge, the increasing difficulty of economic improvement, the competitive and cutthroat reality of human nature, the increasing difficulty of finding love with the prevalence of hooking up and shit like Instagram models and apps like Tinder giving people unrealistic expectations.

My theory, based off my own experience, is that people grow up with expectations that their life is going to be like the movies or their favorite show, and when they are hit by reality, they feel a disappointment so deep that it oftentimes throws them into depression. They just can't handle it. People are lonelier than ever, struggling to advance their status (being stagnant and static in life is not how a human being was meant to live), more stressed than ever, etc. Then, they are able to go on the internet and easily able to see how fucked up society is, how insignificant humanity's existence is on the cosmic scale, and how insignificant their own individual existence is. Many philosophers, statisticians, and scientists have said that we are most likely in a simulation. This very thought and concept is something that would invoke an existential crisis in many people, yet it is available for all to see. People no longer have religion to bring meaning to their lives, and people are now part of a global population rather than a more intimate, emotionally satisfying community. Back when people lived in villages in communities of say, 100 people, they felt important. Those 100 people were their whole world, and as an individual, they felt as if they actually had an impact on the world.

To sum it up, I think the general trend is: unrealistic expectations of life propagated by media -> reality sets in as they are continually disappointed over and over again -> knowledge of the meaninglessness of their existence -> depression and loss of will to live -> rationalization that nothing fucking matters, and so if they don't enjoy their existence then the only sensible thing to do is to to end it.

 

[Rex]

Thank you for your post Kev.

I hope this one doesn't descend into shit show like the last one. So to keep the mods on top of it, please report ANYONE that makes remarks that are personal attacks. We won't stand for it and warnings will be issued all day if they have to be.

Edit: Also I do agree. Lots grow up with this utopia in their mind for when they hit older years. That plus the things you mention like access to media and anything 21st century has to offer gives us unreal expectations of reality.

Heck, I use VR... just to escape for quick hour or two every day.

 

[Kev]

Thank you for your post Kev.

I hope this one doesn't descend into shit show like the last one. So to keep the mods on top of it, please report ANYONE that makes remarks that are personal attacks. We won't stand for it and warnings will be issued all day if they have to be.

You're very welcome. It is unfortunate that it descended into the hillbilly cluster fuck that it was.

I think the original thread and it's point of discussion was very interesting and posed a very important question. Suicide and depression has become an epidemic in the modern world, and society is dumbfounded as to why. So who better to answer that question than a community of the suicidal? Maybe someone should send this thread to the Department of Health or the CDC or something lol

 

[AntiLifeEric]

Better not express )))certain opinions((( in this thread.

 

[Kev]

Better not express )))certain opinions((( in this thread.

I didn't even read all the bullshit. Once the discussion ended and the insults began, I simply went to go reply and have my go at trying to answer the question, then I got pissed once I realized this thread that I very much wanted to participate in got shut down because of some idiocy.

 

[AntiLifeEric]

Yeah, so I don't wanna make a really big post, but I feel obliged to give my opinion, since I already have gotten in trouble because of this topic.

Contributing factors to the suicide-rate going up are
1. A world-society too fast paced and with a culture so shallow that no one feels any connection to it.
2. Corruption has been allowed to rule in all countries because the good guys are losing their minds because they know that the world has gone insane, or they're locked up for trying to do something about it.
2. Being surrounded by people who don't look like you would make the alienation worse.

However we should remember that Earth has always been trash, and it's generally the masses who are happy being here. Every prophet that ever lived was concerned about the fact that life is shit, and you'll notice that the goal of most post-neolithic religions is to escape from this world into a better one.

 

[IWishYouAllGoodLuck]

That would be a Hyphotesis, not a theory, I know it doesn't matter much but its usefull to know.

 

[GoneSeptember2018]

I hope this post doesn't cause any trouble, but it's my humble opinion that economic state of affairs is a huge reason for the increasing suicide rate, at least in the states. We have a free market, privatized system that allows unchecked corporate interest to oppress all of us - this in turn leads to continuous low wages, poor working conditions, and the loss of jobs through trade deals. This mainly began with the rise of neoliberalism/Reaganism in the 80's.

It's been a long continuous decline of crushing working people (by crushing labor unions) which has led to so many Americans living in poverty. We also privatize things that people dearly need and can't afford like education and healthcare, which shackles people (young people in particular) to lifelong debt and bankrupts so many others. I believe this is an underlying reason so many here talk about "wage slavery." I strongly suspect that increasing access to education, welfare, healthcare and universal basic income would dramatically reduce suicide rates.

Tl;dr: People are broke, can't survive, and want to die as a result. (See: Richard Wolff)

 

[AntiLifeEric]

Dear goddess I hope this post doesn't cause any trouble, but it's my humble opinion that economic state of affairs is a huge reason for the increasing suicide rate, at least in the states. We have a free market, privatized system that allows unchecked corporate interest to oppress all of us - this in turn leads to continuous low wages and working conditions.

It's been a long continuous decline of crushing working people which has led to so many Americans living in poverty. We also privatize things that people dearly need and can't afford like education and healthcare, which shackles people (young people in particular) to lifelong debt and bankrupts so many others. I believe this is an underlying reason so many here talk about "wage slavery." I strongly suspect that increasing access to education, welfare, healthcare and universal basic income would dramatically reduce suicide rates.

Agreed.

 

[GoneSeptember2018]

Agreed.

Well I'm glad we agree on something, man. :)

 

[Kev]

Dear goddess I hope this post doesn't cause any trouble, but it's my humble opinion that economic state of affairs is a huge reason for the increasing suicide rate, at least in the states. We have a free market, privatized system that allows unchecked corporate interest to oppress all of us - this in turn leads to continuous low wages and working conditions. This mainly began with the rise of neoliberalism/Reaganism in the 80's.

It's been a long continuous decline of crushing working people which has led to so many Americans living in poverty. We also privatize things that people dearly need and can't afford like education and healthcare, which shackles people (young people in particular) to lifelong debt and bankrupts so many others. I believe this is an underlying reason so many here talk about "wage slavery." I strongly suspect that increasing access to education, welfare, healthcare and universal basic income would dramatically reduce suicide rates.

I think that while valid, your school of thought is but a piece of a bigger puzzle. American politics aside, the point you are trying to make is that upward economic mobility has decreased drastically over the last few decades. While that is true in America, and I'm sure is part of the disappointment in life that many Americans face, the suicide rate has not just gone up in America, it has gone up everywhere. Even in countries like Norway or Sweden, the world leaders in education, welfare, healthcare, etc. It is not an American issue, it is a human issue. The real answer lies far, FAR beyond the scope of "the rise of Reaganism in America in the 80s".

And this is coming from an American.

 

[lv-gras]

Well I'm glad we agree on something, man. :)

like the new icon btw

 

[lv-gras]

I think that while valid, your school of thought is but a piece of a bigger puzzle. American politics aside, the point you are trying to make is that upward economic mobility has decreased drastically over the last few decades. While that is true in America, and I'm sure is part of the disappointment in life that many Americans face, the suicide rate has not just gone up in America, it has gone up everywhere. Even in countries like Norway or Sweden, the world leaders in education, welfare, healthcare, etc. It is not an American issue, it is a human issue. The real answer lies far, FAR beyond the scope of "the rise of Reaganism in America in the 80s".

true, think there's a bigger picture, but "austerity" is a thing elsewhere too, not just a usa thing.

 

[GoneSeptember2018]

I think that while valid, your school of thought is but a piece of a bigger puzzle. American politics aside, the point you are trying to make is that upward economic mobility has decreased drastically over the last few decades. While that is true in America, and I'm sure is part of the disappointment in life that many Americans face, the suicide rate has not just gone up in America, it has gone up everywhere. Even in countries like Norway or Sweden, the world leaders in education, welfare, healthcare, etc. It is not an American issue, it is a human issue. The real answer lies far, FAR beyond the scope of "the rise of Reaganism in America in the 80s".

I referenced neoliberalism (i.e. free market capitalism) which is an international phenomenon. So sure, it's not just the US. Please, fill in the puzzle for me a bit more....

 

[Kev]

I referenced neoliberalism, which is an international phenomenon. But sure, it's not just the US. Please, fill in the puzzle for me a bit more....

The reasons for why people want to kill themselves are incredibly complex. For me to attempt to list all the specific reasons, of which yours is one of them, would be a futile effort.

To me, this phenomenon you are describing is only a small part of why people are becoming disappointed at life. Financial struggles alone are not what brings a person to want to die. For example, I have wealthy parents who are generous and heavily support me (I'm in college). I live in a relatively upscale house, I drive a BMW, I have a lot of nice material possessions in general, and I don't worry about money, yet I still want to die, for many reasons other than economic ones. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying that it isn't part of the issue, but that it doesn't really answer the question of "Why are suicide rates going up?" effectively.

 

[GoneSeptember2018]

The reasons for why people want to kill themselves are incredibly complex. For me to attempt to list all the specific reasons, of which yours is one of them, would be a futile effort.

To me, this phenomenon you are describing is only a small part of why people are becoming disappointed at life. Financial struggles alone usually are not what bring a person to want to die. For example, I have wealthy parents who are generous and heavily support me (I'm in college). I live in a relatively upscale house, I drive a BMW, I have a lot of nice material possessions in general, and I don't worry about money, yet I still want to die, for many reasons other than economic ones. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying that it is part of the issue, but that it doesn't really answer the question of "Why are suicide rates going up?" effectively.

I guess I'll wait and see how others respond to the economic piece, as I believe it's rather significant and a prevailing theme on SS. Also, I suspect there are far more poor people killing themselves than wealthy ones. But again, I want to see what others say.

Also, I've never asserted that financial reasons are exclusively the only reason people want to die lol. I've simply offered an economic lens as it is a key to determining quality of life.

 

[Midnight]

Social media are in my opinion also destroying chances off the average or less than average of appearance people. And so creating alot more loneliness and depression at the same time.

 

[Tiburcio]

I would said something but I think I can't say anything you said better.

Specially the first part, high expectations of life are which I lived and it broke me. It was the burden which blinded me dor years until I saw the things exactly as they are; then, it caused all the next consequences you said. Now, I see your thread and I only can feel agreement.

 

[TAW122]

Your post is spot on and yes, there are many reasons why an individual will want to ctb. Also, yes, there isn't just one cause for someone to want to ctb, but it could be a multitude of different reasons and factors, sometimes simultaneously existing that pushes an individual over the edge.

 

[Phro]

Your post is spot on and yes, there are many reasons why an individual will want to ctb. Also, yes, there isn't just one cause for someone to want to ctb, but it could be a multitude of different reasons and factors, sometimes simultaneously existing that pushes an individual over the edge.

Agreed. In my case, there is quite a list of reasons that I want to ctb... isolation, mental illness, joblessness, etc.

 

[atwasoa]

@Kev
>My theory, based off my own experience, is that people grow up with expectations that their life is going to be like the movies or their favorite show, and when they are hit by reality, they feel a disappointment.

I have to disagree with you on this one.
Its one of the most popular cliché reason to ctb along with "we are wage slave to our society"

If everyone had 5-6 decent friend, a caring average gf/bf and a home they can shelter those suicide rates will be droped drasticly.

Look at this site, read what people wrote, all you are gonna see is people fucked up in one or more of the things that i list.
They eighter socialy too awkward/anxious/mentally ill
They eighter in huge dept or dont have any oportunity to earn decent money.
-Heartbroken over an ex
-Dont even had a relationship in his/her life
-Mentaly disabled/chronic pain/had a bad surgery

Only %1 of the "truly" suicidal people will kill themself from anything other than what i wrote.

No ones gonna kill themself over not finding True Love or meaningles life or some BS.
Only slight downside of the social media is it increases the amount of people you are gonna compare yourself.

 

[bigj75]

I think it's our diet. Literally that's the main thing causing the most problems.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

I haven't read all the post here but for me, I don't want to spend decades being a wage slave and then tossed away when we are no longer of any use. I will never be able to retire and even if I could I don't want to grow older with my body failing more every day. :(

 

[midastic]

I would much rather live in older centuries then right now. Yes, I would loose the opportunity to have access to all sorts of nice technologies but its worth sacrificing it for living in a century where society and life was so peaceful. Society have so much problems nowadays as compared to the good old days.

 

[atwasoa]

I would much rather live in older centuries then right now. Yes, I would loose the opportunity to have access to all sorts of nice technologies but its worth sacrificing it for living in a century where society and life was so peaceful. Society have so much problems nowadays as compared to the good old days.

Jesuss..

 

[bigj75]

I haven't read all the post here but for me, I don't want to spend decades being a wage slave and then tossed away when we are no longer of any use. I will never be able to retire and even if I could I don't want to grow older with my body failing more every day. :(

This!

 

[Kev]

@Kev
>My theory, based off my own experience, is that people grow up with expectations that their life is going to be like the movies or their favorite show, and when they are hit by reality, they feel a disappointment.

I have to disagree with you on this one.
Its one of the most popular cliché reason to ctb along with "we are wage slave to our society"

If everyone had 5-6 decent friend, a caring average gf/bf and a home they can shelter those suicide rates will be droped drasticly.

Look at this site, read what people wrote, all you are gonna see is people fucked up in one or more of the things that i list.
They eighter socialy too awkward/anxious/mentally ill
They eighter in huge dept or dont have any oportunity to earn decent money.
-Heartbroken over an ex
-Dont even had a relationship in his/her life
-Mentaly disabled/chronic pain/had a bad surgery

Only %1 of the "truly" suicidal people will kill themself from anything other than what i wrote.

No ones gonna kill themself over not finding True Love or meaningles life or some BS.
Only slight downside of the social media is it increases the amount of people you are gonna compare yourself.

That's fair, perhaps movies was the wrong term, sitcom or reality show would be more appropriate. I don't think the specific type of media is important here.

Semantics aside, I think that many people are imbued with high expectations of life one way or another, and oftentimes they fail to meet those expectations spectacularly. Like I said, my theory is a generalization of what I believe to be is the process that led me to be suicidal.

I agree with your list, those are very common reasons for someone to be suicidal. They fall into the category of "disappointment in life". I am simply saying that people with those issues, feel even worse when compounded with getting barraged by media of various forms picturing a "perfect" life. And then furthermore, the rise of atheism and the age of information provides people with existentially disturbing knowledge and makes it hard for them to find meaning, giving them a rationalization for suicide.

 

[atwasoa]

That's fair, perhaps movies was the wrong term, sitcom would be more appropriate.

Regardless, I think that many people are imbued with high expectations of life one way or another, and oftentimes they fail to meet those expectations spectacularly. Like I said, my theory is a generalization of what I believe to be is the process that led me to be suicidal.

I agree with your list, those are very common reasons for someone to be suicidal. They fall into the category of "disappointment in life". I am simply saying that people with those issues, feel even worse when compounded with getting barraged by media of various forms picturing a "perfect" life. And then furthermore, the rise of atheism and the age of information provides people with existentially disturbing knowledge and makes it hard for them to find meaning, giving them a rationalization for suicide.

Whats your reason to wanna ctb by the way? If you respomded in other post can you send me the link

 

[Kev]

Social media are in my opinion also destroying chances off the average or less than average of appearance people. And so creating alot more loneliness and depression at the same time.

I agree. From my experience I have found that only people considered solidly above average, or good looking, are able to satisfy their romantic and sexual needs. Of course there are exceptions, but the odds are stacked against those of us with unfortunate aesthetic genes, like myself. I feel extremely lonely, and I believe that when it comes down to it, loneliness is the biggest factor in suicide.

Again, another example of unrealistic expectations propagated by media.

 

[Kev]

Whats your reason to wanna ctb by the way? If you respomded in other post can you send me the link

Oh man, I've written a lot of posts about my reasons, but I don't think one single post captures all of it.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...eluded-narratives-about-life.2911/#post-38596
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/have-you-thought-about-the-family.3030/page-2#post-41473
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...you-to-not-want-to-ctb.3363/page-2#post-48489
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ent-only-to-think-why-bother.3487/#post-48361

I think these four posts would give you a thorough understanding of my psyche and reasoning, but it's a lot to read. The fourth link is probably the most thorough.

Tl;dr: a lifelong lack of familial belonging and feeling isolated from my family, my complete inability to satisfy my romantic and sexual needs despite years of effort due to factors I cannot change, the nihilistic belief that everything we do is laughably insignificant in the grand scheme of things and doesn't really matter, and intense self hatred stemming from having many flaws.