Discussion My Islamic friends say every self deletion case will endure eternal torment

[Praestat_Mori]

It's generally believed that if you're a believer, your sins will eventually be forgiven and you'll get to go to heaven. Only non-believers go to hell forever.

That raises the question again: Why does a god create more "non-believers" than "believers"? Just to enjoy their punishment in hell forever? What a sadistic god. What's your opinion @Havnis ?

 

[BlockHammer]

Everyone gave a good answer to this question so i wouldn't gave another one, but i just want to say that usually this type of people were a lazy c*nt who can't think for themself either because the stigma around critical thinking regarding religion or they had to take care of something more important that thinking about religion so part of them were just simplify the topic like suicide, just let the religious loyalist think for them and they'll accept any answer from their religion no matter how stupid/ignorant that is.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Islam is mind control

It's indeed brainwashing and mind control and I'm not surprised that so many converts can become Islamic terrorists if they are not mentally stable and don't have a clear understanding of the world that surrounds them.

 

[anagram]

It's indeed brainwashing and mind control and I'm not surprised that so many converts can become Islamic terrorists if they are not mentally stable and don't have a clear understanding of the world that surrounds them.

People were worried about corona virus but what people really need to be worried about is mind viruses

 

[Praestat_Mori]

People were worried about corona virus but what people really need to be worried about is mind viruses

I fully agree with that!!!

 

[the_last_race]

Afterlife and god do not exist, so you can just ignore this take.

 

[losing hope]

@Havnis

But I have a serious question: If Islam is the "true religion" then how do you explain that it's not a general human instinct to follow all the rules automatically?

I hope you get the point of my question.

I can answer this as an ex Muslim. They believe things like alcohol, eating pork or the "rules" are a test that one needs to pass to PROVE their devotion to Allah. Those sinful things are put onto earth by the devil or something like that I think. Of course this then raises the question, well what about a 1 year old Muslim baby who eats pork without knowing it is sinful? Is that 1 year old baby going to have committed a sin in the eyes of Islam?

If not, then at what point does it ACTUALLY become a sin for people who don't have their full mental capabilities?

Another thought regarding the OP does this mean vets are also going to hell, for putting down animals because they were in pain & suffering?

How about the unknown suicide missions / actions during WW2 that ultimately saved lives?

I've never been given any decent answers to the above questions, hence why I converted to Buddhism. Also my family are stupid and value Islam more than each other, which leads me to believe it is just mind control for sheep.

 

[Havnis]

You seem to have knowledge but actually you, like anyone else, does not have any proof that a higher being exists at all (no offence here, everyone is free to believe whatever they want!).

Yes, there's distinction between belief and knowledge, belief does not need a proof.

But I have a serious question: If Islam is the "true religion" then how do you explain that it's not a general human instinct to follow all the rules automatically?

I hope you get the point of my question.

It's a human instinct to find the opposite sex and to procreate. But actually Islam prohibits many love relations? I think human instincts can sense much more what would be a beneficial gene mixture for the next generation than a religion that was invented by humans.

I don't believe in true religion, true religion to me is subjective, not objective.

I believe that the purity of religion got stigmatized by Islam and Christianity when they tried to logicalize religion and enact social rules, I think true religion is a reflection of the psychological irrational part of a human being, take the religion of Georges Bataille as an example.

I think instinct is inherently selfish that we need to create some rules to mitigate its devastating consequences, especially with technological progress.

There are verses in the Quran that state that the non muslims will be in hell for eternity
"Abiding therein forever, they will not find a protector or a helper." Ahzab:65
Sounds pretty cruel to me

I addressed Muslims who commit suicide. Non-Muslims will be in eternal hell. I think it is a general rule in any religion where non-believers would be in hellish perpetuation.

That raises the question again: Why does a god create more "non-believers" than "believers"? Just to enjoy their punishment in hell forever? What a sadistic god. What's your opinion @Havnis ?

There's more profound inquiry than this, why did he create the universe in the first place?
Don't ask me logical questions about Anthropomorphic God, the only god I believe on is irrational one.

 

[tvo]

"suffering excruciatingly" is what we get to do here in this virtual reality, in this simulation. Outside this 3D time space simulation reality there's no suffering, which is the experience of deep forgetfulness and separation from All that is.

When we return back to higher consciousness, expanded awareness, our pre-life memories become restored and we remember why we came here and chose to experience this simulation. This occurs in eternity, the eternal now, a timeless reality. Most that are in deep fear and talking about eternal suffering cannot even explain what eternity is, they have forgotten, they don't remember what it was like to exist in a reality of unity consciousness free of any kind of suffering.

We are in a simulation, a game, a very cruel game (but a game nonetheless), where we get to use our freewill to explore all kinds of humans experiences like: Religion, fear, suffering, greed, etc.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

So, nothing changes?

 

[ham and potatoes]

Well, how do ctb bombers justify it then? Just tell them it's for a holy cause.

So if you kill yourself in peace, you going to hell
But if you blow yourself up in a shopping mall full of women and children you go to heaven, and get 72 virgins.
And just think, there are almost 2 billion people in the world who believe this religion...

 

[Rubypie41]

I'll keep this short.

What a load of fucking bullshit!

 

[golta]

So then,The terrorist of the Twin towers is going to hell? I thought that anybody that kills for the Islam gets heaven ...

And thats another stupid thing of religion. If there's any God, I doubt any human wouldn't change it so it benefits themselves.
This place is the literal proof that however created us, wasn't really thinking about us . I respect religions but they don't make any sense
So then,The terrorist of the Twin towers is going to hell? I thought that anybody that kills for the Islam gets heaven ...

And thats another stupid thing of religion. If there's any God, I doubt any human wouldn't change it so it benefits themselves.
This place is the literal proof that however created us, wasn't really thinking about us .

 

[underscore_nine]

Subjective belief

 

[NeverReallyHere]

You know those organisations which we today call "cults" - a group of people whose lives and thoughts are, through a combination of psychological trickery and mystical bullshit, strictly controlled by some charismatic sicko who gets off on the power? Well most of the world's religions started the same way. Think of your holy book of choice and just imagine you'd never heard of it or anything like it - imagine it had never been drummed into you as a child. Then imagine some random guy came along and started quoting it to you and telling you it's the holy word of God and you should follow him and do what he says.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Yes, there's distinction between belief and knowledge, belief does not need a proof.

The proposition that belief doesn't need proof is correct in reality that belief is often devoid of proof, but if it doesn't require proof than why does anyone have certainty in their own belief? I've debated plenty of religious scholars and they all claim their religion is proven through the associated texts, Muslims included. The concept of blind faith is usually only brought up once the claimed proof of the beliefs is not supported.

 

[Havnis]

The proposition that belief doesn't need proof is correct in reality that belief is often devoid of proof, but if it doesn't require proof than why does anyone have certainty in their own belief? I've debated plenty of religious scholars and they all claim their religion is proven through the associated texts, Muslims included. The concept of blind faith is usually only brought up once the claimed proof of the beliefs is not supported.

what adults content themselves with has to be sacred, adults need certainty because what they hold sacred must feel unquestionably real. Religion, which is sacred, must therefore be perceived as real to them. Humans often fail to acknowledge their irrational psychological needs, similar to biological needs, and thus attempt to rationalize religion. However, religion inherently involves irrationality and fulfills an essential psychological function.

 

[KillingPain267]

So if you kill yourself in peace, you going to hell
But if you blow yourself up in a shopping mall full of women and children you go to heaven, and get 72 virgins.
And just think, there are almost 2 billion people in the world who believe this religion...

Well, they don't all believe that. But a few of them do, haha. Well, I have gladly take on that chest bomb if it's free even without the virgins and mall, lol.

 

[ham and potatoes]

Well, they don't all believe that. But a few of them do, haha. Well, I have gladly take on that chest bomb if it's free even without the virgins and mall, lol.

I mean, it would deffinetly be a quick and likely painless method. Just instantly turned into red paste

 

[KillingPain267]

I mean, it would deffinetly be a quick and likely painless method. Just instantly turned into red paste

Does Hamas still recruit? I have zionists anyway, despite being Christian

 

[Dark Window]

My religious friends usually tell me every self deletion case will result in them suffering excruciatingly for eternity.

What do you guys think about this?

Your Islamic friends are retarded and are just trying to control you ffs.

Why should you believe their hell exists and not the christian hell or any of the other hells that humans have imagined?

People are trying to control you by manipulating your beliefs and through fearmongering.

 

[LaughingGoat]

what adults content themselves with has to be sacred, adults need certainty because what they hold sacred must feel unquestionably real. Religion, which is sacred, must therefore be perceived as real to them. Humans often fail to acknowledge their irrational psychological needs, similar to biological needs, and thus attempt to rationalize religion. However, religion inherently involves irrationality and fulfills an essential psychological function.

I'm truly not sure how to respond to the idea that irrational psychology is an essential function, irrational psychology is literally comprised of cognitive distortions and faulty reasoning leading to maladaptive behavior. It is the antithesis of healthy functioning. Joan of Arc is canonized by the Catholic church due to her military service, martyrdom, and for being executed due to claiming she had was given revelations from god. Having a career working with people with schizophrenia, we call that audio hallucinations because that's what they are proven to be. I have no doubt in my mind that Joan fully believed she was being spoken to by god, but the reality people with faith don't want to admit is that your senses are not fully reliable. Look up statistics for eye-witness accounts to crimes and you'll see how unreliable people's accounts for how things happen are, even when they are completely certain it happened the way they thought.

 

[cosmic_traveler]

My religious friends usually tell me every self deletion case will result in them suffering excruciatingly for eternity.

What do you guys think about this?

Heaven and Hell are not destinations.
They are a state of mind.

Your friends are free to believe whatever propaganda they wish.

 

[Havnis]

I'm truly not sure how to respond to the idea that irrational psychology is an essential function, irrational psychology is literally comprised of cognitive distortions and faulty reasoning leading to maladaptive behavior. It is the antithesis of healthy functioning. Joan of Arc is canonized by the Catholic church due to her military service, martyrdom, and for being executed due to claiming she had was given revelations from god. Having a career working with people with schizophrenia, we call that audio hallucinations because that's what they are proven to be. I have no doubt in my mind that Joan fully believed she was being spoken to by god, but the reality people with faith don't want to admit is that your senses are not fully reliable. Look up statistics for eye-witness accounts to crimes and you'll see how unreliable people's accounts for how things happen are, even when they are completely certain it happened the way they thought.

 

[LaughingGoat]

I would advise better role models than Robert Greene. His books The 48 Laws of Power & The Art of Seduction are some of the most self-serving, unempathetic books I've ever read disguised as some form of wisdom. He's not a sociologist, neuroscience, or psychology, just an author so he lacks any credibility to create "Laws" of psychology. Regarding the actual tweet, no one would argue that humans act rationally all the time but that is not an endorsement of acting irrationally. It's like saying people make stupid decisions so I'm going to purposefully make stupid decisions too, it's a ludicrous argument.