BipolarGuy
Enlightened
- Aug 6, 2020
- 1,456
This is as much a 'vent' as it is a discussion.
I know I don't really have to say this because, although I'm brand new on this website, you all seem pretty decent and switched on.
But...please do read the whole post and understand where I'm coming from before responding, as it would be a little unfair to be judged on the first three sentences.
Also, I'm not a dogmatic simpleton, and nor am I the kind of person that arbitrarily clings on to an opinion as if it's my baby.
I am more than happy to see things from other's perspectives and to change my opinions if necessary.
I have uploaded my 'story' already, but a little context first:
I have suffered with clinical depression for 11 years, since back in 2009.
In that time I have tried to take my own life twice, and am currently seeking means to do so again in such a way that will not fail.
If you want to know the reasons and story behind this you'll have to look for my story thread, which I believe is titled something like "Why I'm here"/"How I got here".
Now for my own perspective on suicide:
Obviously it is incredibly sad that we live in a global society that 'generates' (or gives rise to) situations that effect people SO badly that they end their own lives.
I say GLOBAL society because it seems that regardless of where you are in the world, broadly the same issues effect people.
National suicide statistics are a stain on places like the USA and Europe (including the UK), and it is a tragedy that the prevalence of suicide has increased as much as it has over the last 15 years or so.
That said, it is an absolute EMBARRASSMENT that despite massive advances in mental health awareness along with investment in programs to help those effected by various issues, mental health services are generally very poorly run and programs to assist with other societal issues (e.g. financial issues, housing problems, relationship breakdowns, etc) are really not up to the mark.
That's the big picture stuff, and quite honestly I'd be amazed if anyone disagrees with me in a substantial way on anything I've written so far.
Now perhaps to get a little closer to home...
It will be helpful for you, the reader, to understand why I've chosen to write this:
Just yesterday I replied to a comment on another thread. The comment essentially said that although it may not happen any time soon, the person who wrote the post supported the idea of "suicide shops".
I may be off the mark, but I imagined that what they meant by this is a place like a literal shop, where one could go to end their own life.
I responded to the comment by saying something along the lines of it would be much better if rather than making suicide a much more common occurrence within society, there were instead great and meaningful changes within society which resulted in a reduction in the numbers of people wanting to end their lives in the first place.
To me my stance was the most obvious one to take, since taking my argument to the extreme; wouldn't it be much better if nobody wanted to end their lives compared with everybody wanting to end their lives.
Yes, I'm aware I've taken my argument to the extreme, but you get my point!
By the way, don't take this to mean that I don't support euthanasia in certain circumstances....
If you're unsure of my opinion please ask me rather than just guess!
To my surprise, the person who wrote that comment and to whom I responded proceeded to PM me saying that he will not help me because I broadly don't support the concept of "suicide shops"!
He went on to assert to me that "any form of suicide prevention is immoral"!
To be fair to him/her I don't think he/she fully understood my position, as explained above.
Having said that, to say that "any form of suicide prevention is immoral" tells me that this person is so far 'down the rabbit hole' that they simply no longer have a balanced view.
The reality of course is that very rarely in life are things so black and white.
But I woke up this morning to a notification on this website.
A different person had responded to my own comment, and it turns out that they had obviously thought carefully about what I wrote and they responded in a very thoughtful and considered way...in a way that made me begin to question myself.
This person wasn't making a case for anything crazy, wasn't making suicide out to be something that's positive, and wasn't taking an extreme view either way.
But they did make a few points based on realistic considerations of how the world actually is, rather than on purely hypothetical or philosophical considerations.
I can't do their post justice by summarising it myself and I don't know how to quote yet, but I think the gist of what they were saying is that realistically society would have to change just as much to tackle the reasons behind suicide as it would if "suicide shops" were to become normal.
In essence, I think this person then argued that given that neither thing is going to happen any time soon, if at all, why should anybody have to continue in their suffering.
Again, this person was not arguing for anything crazy.
I felt that this person made some very valid points, and it made me stop and think.
It's weird isn't it; society can't stand suicide - the very act is unnatural and seems to go against the basic survival instinct that every living creature has within them.
'Society', typically through government agencies such as healthcare, will take action to prevent you from the act itself.
And yet, society itself operates and is structured in such a way that very many people are driven to do it.
Society dislikes the effect, but does very little (if anything) about the cause.
There are laws that allow you to be detained if you are deemed to be a danger to yourself.
Yet, the help offered by organisations to combat housing issues, financial problems etc is very disorganised, disjointed and very often of very little use if any at all.
Then you've got mental health services:
Managed completely chaotically with the focus on completing the correct paperwork and covering their own arse rather than engaging on a human level and helping people.
Mental health trusts typically have a multi level management structure along with a large board.
Board members may be earning 200k a year, and yet trusts say they don't have the funding required to hire the required number of nurses on 25k a year.
Who sets the priorities?
Big picture again:
Humans now place such great emphasis on money and commerce that it takes priority over everything else.
Humans organise their society in such a way that you have to dedicate most of your day to making somebody else wealthy just to allow you to access basic things like healthcare, food and shelter.
I'm not a political person so hold back on the political responses please. I'm just making the point that the way we live and the way society organises itself is so far from how it should be!
Unfortunately none of this is EVER likely to change!
If you suggest that we should live in such a way that individual wellbeing above money, you'll be hounded as being a communist (especially if you're from somewhere like the USA).
If you argue that mental health services should be better, or the financial safety net made more complete, or that more help should be made available for people with housing issues, you'll be labelled a "scrounger" and it will be blamed on funding. Granted money may be an issue in some cases, but very often the people who blame funding are taking 150k+ as a salary and of course in many organisations an injection of millions has made very little practical difference anyway.
A lack of will is often to blame as much as a lack of funding.
No, I'm not starting a national campaign to tackle the issues that drive people to take their own lives.
I've just come to the realisation that despite the act itself being repulsive, very little if anything is done to actually prevent people getting to the point of wanting to do it.
I find this very frustrating.
In fact I find it totally disgusting.
Any yet, we're supposed to be the selfish ones who just need to reach out for help...
I know I don't really have to say this because, although I'm brand new on this website, you all seem pretty decent and switched on.
But...please do read the whole post and understand where I'm coming from before responding, as it would be a little unfair to be judged on the first three sentences.
Also, I'm not a dogmatic simpleton, and nor am I the kind of person that arbitrarily clings on to an opinion as if it's my baby.
I am more than happy to see things from other's perspectives and to change my opinions if necessary.
I have uploaded my 'story' already, but a little context first:
I have suffered with clinical depression for 11 years, since back in 2009.
In that time I have tried to take my own life twice, and am currently seeking means to do so again in such a way that will not fail.
If you want to know the reasons and story behind this you'll have to look for my story thread, which I believe is titled something like "Why I'm here"/"How I got here".
Now for my own perspective on suicide:
Obviously it is incredibly sad that we live in a global society that 'generates' (or gives rise to) situations that effect people SO badly that they end their own lives.
I say GLOBAL society because it seems that regardless of where you are in the world, broadly the same issues effect people.
National suicide statistics are a stain on places like the USA and Europe (including the UK), and it is a tragedy that the prevalence of suicide has increased as much as it has over the last 15 years or so.
That said, it is an absolute EMBARRASSMENT that despite massive advances in mental health awareness along with investment in programs to help those effected by various issues, mental health services are generally very poorly run and programs to assist with other societal issues (e.g. financial issues, housing problems, relationship breakdowns, etc) are really not up to the mark.
That's the big picture stuff, and quite honestly I'd be amazed if anyone disagrees with me in a substantial way on anything I've written so far.
Now perhaps to get a little closer to home...
It will be helpful for you, the reader, to understand why I've chosen to write this:
Just yesterday I replied to a comment on another thread. The comment essentially said that although it may not happen any time soon, the person who wrote the post supported the idea of "suicide shops".
I may be off the mark, but I imagined that what they meant by this is a place like a literal shop, where one could go to end their own life.
I responded to the comment by saying something along the lines of it would be much better if rather than making suicide a much more common occurrence within society, there were instead great and meaningful changes within society which resulted in a reduction in the numbers of people wanting to end their lives in the first place.
To me my stance was the most obvious one to take, since taking my argument to the extreme; wouldn't it be much better if nobody wanted to end their lives compared with everybody wanting to end their lives.
Yes, I'm aware I've taken my argument to the extreme, but you get my point!
By the way, don't take this to mean that I don't support euthanasia in certain circumstances....
If you're unsure of my opinion please ask me rather than just guess!
To my surprise, the person who wrote that comment and to whom I responded proceeded to PM me saying that he will not help me because I broadly don't support the concept of "suicide shops"!
He went on to assert to me that "any form of suicide prevention is immoral"!
To be fair to him/her I don't think he/she fully understood my position, as explained above.
Having said that, to say that "any form of suicide prevention is immoral" tells me that this person is so far 'down the rabbit hole' that they simply no longer have a balanced view.
The reality of course is that very rarely in life are things so black and white.
But I woke up this morning to a notification on this website.
A different person had responded to my own comment, and it turns out that they had obviously thought carefully about what I wrote and they responded in a very thoughtful and considered way...in a way that made me begin to question myself.
This person wasn't making a case for anything crazy, wasn't making suicide out to be something that's positive, and wasn't taking an extreme view either way.
But they did make a few points based on realistic considerations of how the world actually is, rather than on purely hypothetical or philosophical considerations.
I can't do their post justice by summarising it myself and I don't know how to quote yet, but I think the gist of what they were saying is that realistically society would have to change just as much to tackle the reasons behind suicide as it would if "suicide shops" were to become normal.
In essence, I think this person then argued that given that neither thing is going to happen any time soon, if at all, why should anybody have to continue in their suffering.
Again, this person was not arguing for anything crazy.
I felt that this person made some very valid points, and it made me stop and think.
It's weird isn't it; society can't stand suicide - the very act is unnatural and seems to go against the basic survival instinct that every living creature has within them.
'Society', typically through government agencies such as healthcare, will take action to prevent you from the act itself.
And yet, society itself operates and is structured in such a way that very many people are driven to do it.
Society dislikes the effect, but does very little (if anything) about the cause.
There are laws that allow you to be detained if you are deemed to be a danger to yourself.
Yet, the help offered by organisations to combat housing issues, financial problems etc is very disorganised, disjointed and very often of very little use if any at all.
Then you've got mental health services:
Managed completely chaotically with the focus on completing the correct paperwork and covering their own arse rather than engaging on a human level and helping people.
Mental health trusts typically have a multi level management structure along with a large board.
Board members may be earning 200k a year, and yet trusts say they don't have the funding required to hire the required number of nurses on 25k a year.
Who sets the priorities?
Big picture again:
Humans now place such great emphasis on money and commerce that it takes priority over everything else.
Humans organise their society in such a way that you have to dedicate most of your day to making somebody else wealthy just to allow you to access basic things like healthcare, food and shelter.
I'm not a political person so hold back on the political responses please. I'm just making the point that the way we live and the way society organises itself is so far from how it should be!
Unfortunately none of this is EVER likely to change!
If you suggest that we should live in such a way that individual wellbeing above money, you'll be hounded as being a communist (especially if you're from somewhere like the USA).
If you argue that mental health services should be better, or the financial safety net made more complete, or that more help should be made available for people with housing issues, you'll be labelled a "scrounger" and it will be blamed on funding. Granted money may be an issue in some cases, but very often the people who blame funding are taking 150k+ as a salary and of course in many organisations an injection of millions has made very little practical difference anyway.
A lack of will is often to blame as much as a lack of funding.
No, I'm not starting a national campaign to tackle the issues that drive people to take their own lives.
I've just come to the realisation that despite the act itself being repulsive, very little if anything is done to actually prevent people getting to the point of wanting to do it.
I find this very frustrating.
In fact I find it totally disgusting.
Any yet, we're supposed to be the selfish ones who just need to reach out for help...
