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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,921
Depends on the motivation. Is it to alleviate the suffering of the actor or the witness? That has been my stance here, that it is about the witness, and the witness does not approve therefore it is the witness who is suffering, and whose suffering s/he is seeking to alleviate.
In truth, I'd say in most cases, both. One does not preclude the other. Just because you are attempting to alleviate your own distress doesn't take from the fact that your prime goal is to alleviate someone else's. We are cIearly complex cretaures. I guess the question would be...what is the primary intent? Virtue signalling or concern over an individual. Both can happen at once.
I have very raw experience of this and have questioned my motives extensively.
I'm still conflicted about my experience and I actually believe that feeling is normal.
Perhaps next month it will be me who isn't thinking clearly, but thankfully someone else will be.....
Oh yeah, if I'm panicking and impulsive please someone influence me not to act stupidly. It's happened before. Not joking, I mean it. Just don't call the cops.:shy:
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,728
In truth, I'd say in most cases, both. One does not preclude the other. Just because you are attempting to alleviate your own distress doesn't take from the fact that your prime goal is to alleviate someone else's. We are cIearly complex cretaures. I guess the question would be...what is the primary intent? Virtue signalling or concern over an individual. Both can happen at once.

I think it is something more like mirror neurons at play. When we see others who are sad, we feel sad, so we reach out to soothe them, hence ourselves. This may be virtue signaling, but I find mirror neurons to provide a clearer understanding.

So when we see someone do something we ourselves would feel good doing, we support. If it would feel bad for us, we may plead for or even demand the other person to stop because we empathetically experience it as happening to us. It is subjective. The other person is no longer the object, we are, which excuses (to ourselves and those who feel the same) our directive and negating behaviors. We're acting for the "good" as we subjectively experience and define it.

I prefer to read between the lines rather than the word on the page. Otherwise all the compassion and understanding I've witnessed on here becomes worthless to my eyes. Maybe it is.
But I see no contadiction between allowing self determination and attempting to alleviate suffering.

Continuing from what I wrote above, I do see a contradiction. It is an overriding of the recognition of autonomy , i.e., I am not that other person, and they are not me. They get to do whatever they want to themselves and for themselves, as do I.

Finally, your first sentence in this quote. You mentioned in a conversation we had in another thread words to effect that the trustworthy person is not necessarily the person who agrees with you, even if it's irritating (I don't recall the exact word you used). I'm going to be a little irritating:

Are you reading between the lines written on the page, or are you writing between the written lines to align with your preference?
 
D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,921
As stated, I admit to the psychological scenario you describe and I think that is a normal reaction, and it's normal to feel conflicted. We are complex. I've questioned myself on this and understanding that actions that make you feel good about yourself do not lose value if the primary intent is for the good of another.


Are you reading between the lines written on the page, or are you writing between the written lines to align with your preference?
Both. Complex. Conflicted, contradictory, flawed. Both. And I'm fine with that.
 
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George81

George81

Member
Jan 8, 2020
57
Thank you for your info Sadflower and glad you're feeling better now. Stay safe and take care x
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
Pro-choice doesn't need to mean anti-sensibility.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,728
Pro-choice doesn't need to mean anti-sensibility.

What's insensible or irrational to you may be sensible or rational to another. And even if it not sensible, it is that person's right to choose to do something insensible if it causes no harm to others.

"Sensible" is as arbitrary and passively dominating as "normal" -- totally subjective, and determined for all by who has the most power to call it that.
 
Alec

Alec

Wizard
Apr 22, 2019
681
Thank you SO MUCH for sharing this with us! This calmed me down a bit, forever grateful!❤️❤️❤️ Glad you are alright!;)
 
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waterbottleman

waterbottleman

Not a person
Sep 30, 2019
721
uuh why Sadflower disabled account?
 
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waterbottleman

waterbottleman

Not a person
Sep 30, 2019
721
If he passed away, it would totally vindicate those of us on this thread saying his testing idea was dangerous and irresponsible! :ohh:

Indeed, let's just hope it wasn't an accident if he did ctb.

Although it's my guess that he/she got annoyed by the responses and cancelled their account. I could be wrong though.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,728
If he passed away, it would totally vindicate those of us on this thread saying his testing idea was dangerous and irresponsible! :ohh:

Indeed, let's just hope it wasn't an accident if he did ctb.

Although it's my guess that he/she got annoyed by the responses and cancelled their account. I could be wrong though.

It's easy to speculate, but we have no way of knowing. It could be that s/he had enough info about the method to move forward and self-banned before attempting. Or s/he could have written a post or a PM that was a bannable offense, though their post history indicates this is unlikely.
 
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H

HopeDiesLast

self-banned
Dec 28, 2019
254
It takes two days for a self-ban to become final. During that time period you have the option of canceling the account deletion. The OP was still posting yesterday. And they were "last seen" less than an hour ago.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,728
It takes two days for a self-ban to become final. During that time period you have the option of canceling the account deletion. The OP was still posting yesterday. And they were "last seen" less than an hour ago.

During that time period, can one still post threads, comment, etc.?
 
H

HopeDiesLast

self-banned
Dec 28, 2019
254
During that time period, can one still post threads, comment, etc.?
No, I couldn't post anything, but if I remember correctly, I would still get notifications about likes or new comments in a thread I was watching. I don't believe my name was crossed out during that time.
 
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O

Otter

Experienced
Feb 10, 2020
263
Pro-choice doesn't need to mean anti-sensibility.
Thx for this! If I had responded it definitely would have been more harsh. We have to take into account that there are some very naive people and it seems that longer time goes on, there are more and more people who are very naive and/or don't think very logically. Whether its helicopter parents, education system or society in general, for sure, people are not being taught how to use their brain.
 
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Quarky00

Quarky00

Enlightened
Dec 17, 2019
1,956
The Case Against Russian Roulette

The reason this is a bad practice, in addition to what said, is that it (1) encourages self harm, (2) spreads misinformation, (3) harms the community.

We can see the slippery slope practically in front of our eyes: one member tried 1g to sleep, the other followed. In the last week only we have seen people taking sips, a mouthful, a spoon, etc -- and others saying they plan to follow. The number of "testers" could reach dozens over months. Some of them may die (we don't know what happened to Lara Francis). It's not SN/SS fault or ours, these people wanted to try SN at their own responsibility, and probably wanted to die. But it's not a positive phenomenon when people play "Russian Roulette".

I was almost the only one that wholeheartedly accepted MysticPerception "SN Roulette", in sharp contrast to most people. So I'm not coming with a pre-determined position, on the contrary, I understood and accepted that practice (be it mere "testing" or "maybe ctb"). That what makes me write this. Because I fully understand where this comes from. And I pay attention to how these things roll over time.

While people self harm while cutting their wrists, taking OTC, abusing opioids, hanging themselves, etc, those are sporadic cases of individual decisions based on one's own resources, tools or prescriptions , not well discussed here (or often). The case with SN is different . It also has unique features , background , and practice .

While many reports of fast recovery and little discomfort calm down members , other reports create undue anxiety . And they have in the past . We still discuss "SN chocking" all the time . People still ask about "being blind" after taking SN . Why? As more anxious members "try" SN while in severe emotional distress and experiencing strong survival instinct or harsh physical sensations -- we will get more of the latter type of reports . I like having a full spectrum of information , for good and for bad , but as we can see misinformation is easy to spread (all with good honest intents!) .

As for danger , in 2018 PPH suggested SN dosage of 5g . I assume some of it interacted with stomach juices (say 1g) , some was vomited (say 2g) , so fatality rate was not high . But it was still fatal . If that 3g that reached intestines was an "official" way to ctb (although allegedly unreliable; increased x5), playing with 1g-2g is indeed dangerous. One member that can withstand this dosage does not guarantee another will . And this is why I call it a Russian Roulette. It does not mean members have intentions to play with death , I'm not speaking for other's state of mind and intentions , but for all practical reasons an incident of "testing" SN is indeed a Russian Roulette.

As clear from what I wrote , I'm fully aware of why members do that , and I am fully aware of this practice providing some information that "helps" other members . I'm aware that many here self-harm as it is . I'm aware this is an individual responsibility , decision , and freedom . I'm aware of all of that . Everything has "pros and cons" , and I'm just presenting the case . I do not feel alarmed . But I can definitely see a reasonable path of events and incidents for this practice to snowball (as described above) . Things here on SS were much worse , in terms of 'general vibes' following certain events and practices , so I'm not very alarmed . I don't see any disaster happening . But I think we can do better and improve .

The SN discussions here are unique in content, volume, and scope . While a determined reasonable decision to ctb can be defended , playing with poison and self-harm , when it reaches dozens of members and spawn discussion and interest -- can't . We are not just "individuals" but a community . Even if you do not feel part of it we affect each other , both inside among us , and outside for other readers .


* I'm not into debating but raising awareness . I'm not stating facts or predictions , I'm calling people to be aware of possibilities . I'm not saying what to do , or what not to do . I do not have any suggestions or advices . I know some of you like to debate , or simply defend your position , I'm really not into it :)
 
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D

Drownedby

Member
Oct 10, 2022
8
hello. in my opinion, testing increases the tolerance of the body to further use of the poison (in case of survival)

it's like a training fire alarm

but, I want to note, it is solely the decision of each person - to do a test for him or not
 

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