My depression started when I met her.

[Mustkeyknow]

A little background, I'm 33 with a not so great career in finance, never liked it but had to finish studies to please parents. Only got in shitty entry level positions with no real development for the past ten years, so I'm not really blaming anyone but myself.

Anyway I was fine, to an extent, last year, working minimum wage, smoking pot, working out, doing yoga, not really worrying about the future.

Then she enters the picture. 27 STEM graduate with a bright future. And she loved me for who i was, which I thought was going to be fine until I realized what a loser I was. Relationships are mirrors you know? And I, stopped smoking pot, cleaned up nicely and tried to get at least a decent better paying job. But that didn't happen. Got into plenty of interviews but nothing. Then depression came. Full force. No holds barred.

The thing is that I was fine with my regular not so brilliant laymen life before I met her and now I just l don't feel ok, I guess im too sensitive. She's been nothing but supportive, but I just-

I mean who the fuck am I joking, this isn't going to work out right? She's so perfect so pretty so smart and I'm a complete loser next to her. Next to me. She wants to move together as soon as she lands a job but I can't even pay for my own stuff.

It's just so hard for me but I have to accept the fact that maybe I'm better off alone. I broke it off (she's not going to break up with me, she really loves me) and we've been taking ever since but she's too busy with her graduation coming up. I'm busy with my not killing myself thing.

Anyway I just sort of realized that I'm always going to feel like a complete loser next to her, even if i accomplish whatever in the future. I'm 33 ffs. Undergraduate with a shitty career. No real future, or the future was now and it sucks. I amounted to this.

I'm just done blaming myself I'm done hurting myself with the past and what I did and what not. I just want to move FORWARD, either with CTB or living idk.

I'm still torn. Anyway thanks for listening, sometimes I think this forum helps better than therapy.

 

[falloutcarter13]

Damn, I know how you feel =( One thing I know for fuckin' sure...if you can't find a way to be okay with yourself, that's gonna translate to relationship problems down the road. And I'm not even telling you to find a way to be okay with yourself, I know exactly how you feel to underachieve, or at least feel like you are. At least you gave it an honest shot at getting it corrected, which is more than I ever did.

Have you told her all of this? Everything that you just wrote down? Seems like that would be a good place to start, imo. I mean if you feel like the relationship is bound to go to shit anyway, what do you have to lose? Maybe she sees a lot more in you than you see in yourself, and even if you don't agree with her, you still gotta respect her right to have her opinion.

To be clear, all of this advice is stuff I was never able to do myself, so it probably doesn't mean much lol. But maybe it could work for you, if you gave it a shot. Either way, I hope you find some peace, my friend.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Damn, I know how you feel =( One thing I know for fuckin' sure...if you can't find a way to be okay with yourself, that's gonna translate to relationship problems down the road. And I'm not even telling you to find a way to be okay with yourself, I know exactly how you feel to underachieve, or at least feel like you are. At least you gave it an honest shot at getting it corrected, which is more than I ever did.

Have you told her all of this? Everything that you just wrote down? Seems like that would be a good place to start, imo. I mean if you feel like the relationship is bound to go to shit anyway, what do you have to lose? Maybe she sees a lot more in you than you see in yourself, and even if you don't agree with her, you still gotta respect her right to have her opinion.

To be clear, all of this advice is stuff I was never able to do myself, so it probably doesn't mean much lol. But maybe it could work for you, if you gave it a shot. Either way, I hope you find some peace, my friend.

Thank you, I have been telling her that I feel less than her for quite some time now, and she says she feels I add a lot to the relationship because I'm extroverted, funny and that she feels safe with me because she sees me as his best friend and can share a lot and overall trusts me.

But the feeling remains, external validation from her or anyone does nothing. In order to feel as her equal i would need to be born again and make all the right choices. I've been screaming this to my therapist but nothing they say works.

Idk i just feel like i have to let her go but she won't let me, it's crazy but she really does love me and I don't love myself. That's not a good combo.

 

[falloutcarter13]

Idk i just feel like i have to let her go but she won't let me, it's crazy but she really does love me and I don't love myself. That's not a good combo.

Couldn't agree more. This doesn't lead anywhere good. I'm just glad you see it now, and not only after you've made a giant fucking mess lol.

 

[SoIntoYou]

Why do you think this relationship depends entirely on you? She knows everything you're telling us and still wants you, why are you throwing that away? Let me tell you something. Your education, your career, your paycheck, doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things and you really should stop measuring yourself based on these factors. These expectations society has put on you have been forced on you by plutocrats and psychopaths who just want to suck the life out of you, AND YOU ARE LETTING THEM. I'm sorry, but if you let these TRIVIAL disappointments in your life get in the way of one of your only chances for happiness with someone special, I will be heartbroken just watching. Please keep talking. I really need to get these thoughts across to you.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Why do you think this relationship depends entirely on you? She knows everything you're telling us and still wants you, why are you throwing that away? Let me tell you something. Your education, your career, your paycheck, doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things and you really should stop measuring yourself based on these factors. These expectations society has put on you have been forced on you by plutocrats and psychopaths who just want to suck the life out of you, AND YOU ARE LETTING THEM. I'm sorry, but if you let these TRIVIAL disappointments in your life get in the way of one of your only chances for happiness with someone special, I will be heartbroken just watching. Please keep talking. I really need to get these thoughts across to you.

I know what you mean, i am happy when I'm with her, but at the same time I feel so worthless. I know I should feel like the luckiest man alive but I'm not sure what's wrong with my brain. If we go serious I'm eventually going to have to put food on the table and with my shitty job and worthless degree and curriculum I don't think I'll be able to provide much. And it kills me. Literally. I mean at the end of the day I feel like I'll become a BURDEN to her and I'd rather let her be with someone who's more well adjusted. I hate feeling like I'm less and I've been trying and trying this past year and it only led to two suicide attempts. I'm not sure I can handle any more of this as much as I love her.

 

[SoIntoYou]

I know what you mean, i am happy when I'm with her, but at the same time I feel so worthless. I know I should feel like the luckiest man alive but I'm not sure what's wrong with my brain. If we go serious I'm eventually going to have to put food on the table and with my shitty job and worthless degree and curriculum I don't think I'll be able to provide much. And it kills me. Literally. I mean at the end of the day I feel like I'll become a BURDEN to her and I'd rather let her be with someone who's more well adjusted. I hate feeling like I'm less and I've been trying and trying this past year and it only led to two suicide attempts. I'm not sure I can handle any more of this as much as I love her.

First of all, why do you think you are going to have to put the bread on the table? Why do you think you're the only one with an income? This is a 20th century mindset that you're caught up in. You might not see it, but women are becoming exponentially more independent in today's society with less and less need for a man to provide for financial support. I will bet anything that she knows what your concerns are and isn't worried about it. Why are you beating yourself up over it? I don't know how you were raised to think men should behave, but it's old news and you should never let someone tell you how you should behave in the first place. You've been led to believe, like many guys like us, that a man has to be everything because those who taught you that thought of women as nothing. Is that how you see your girlfriend? This girl wants you for something that is entirely unrelated to why you think she won't want you. Do you see the problem here? Why can't you be happy with a "bad" job? The only reason someone would be ashamed of a job like that is if they attached their self-worth to trading their time for money in something they probably don't care about - 99% of careers. I'm sorry to say this, but you're taking yourself too seriously. Actually talk to your gf about this instead of beating yourself up alone in a corner. She will probably say the same things I'm telling you. If you don't take anything I've said to heart, then fine, I guess what you've been programmed to think is so strong that no amount of troubleshooting will help, and I will be tremendously sad for you.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

OK, you should know that I have thought so much about this subject. First of all, why do you think you are going to have to put the bread on the table? Why do you think you're the only one with an income? This is a 20th century mindset that you're caught up in. You might not see it, but women are becoming exponentially more independent in today's society with less and less need for a man to provide for financial support. I will bet anything that she knows what your concerns are and isn't worried about it. Why are you beating yourself up over it? I don't know how you were raised to think men should behave, but it's old news and you should never let someone tell you how you should behave in the first place. You've been led to believe, like many guys like us, that a man has to be everything because those who taught you that thought of women as nothing. Is that how you see your girlfriend? This girl wants you for something that is entirely unrelated to why you think she won't want you. Do you see the problem here? Why can't you be happy with a "bad" job? The only reason someone would be ashamed of a job like that is if they attached their self-worth to trading their time for money in something they probably don't care about - 99% of careers. I'm sorry to say this, but you're taking yourself too seriously. Actually talk to your gf about this instead of beating yourself up alone in a corner. She will probably say the same things I'm telling you. If you don't take anything I've said to heart, then fine, I guess what you've been programmed to think is so strong that no amount of troubleshooting will help, and I will be tremendously sad for you.

No i listen to you, i really do. It's just that idk there are times i imagine she'll eventually meet Prince Charming at a conference or something and I'm here talking to strangers over suicide, it's two worlds apart. I don't know what the fuck happened to me ever since I met her. Right now we're on a break so I'm not sure what's going to happen after this. I mean she just finished grad school and I'm barely starting college FFS. And I don't want anyone else. Not at the moment at least. I don't know what I was expecting this is all my fault for not improving myself. I didn't even know you had to do grad school, I thought that was optional, never cared that much tbh. But now I do. Money is always a problem when you don't have it.

Idk i think of this couple, I had an exgf who's father remarried to this very successful career woman and I think he was a carpenter and somehow they made it work.

 

[WinterFaust]

I can relate to a lot of this and I'm sorry you've been feeling so inadequate. It's the worst feeling. I often felt that way with my ex who believed I was an amazing catch. I was proposed to and everything but I just felt like garbage in comparison, completely undeserving. So I get it and I feel a lot empathy for where you are right now.

I'm going to be honest with you here. This is not about her. This is about how you see yourself. From your post, it's clear to me that you aren't a loser. You're starting college, you have a job, you love your girlfriend. You stopped smoking, you've cleaned up and you've been looking for better work. The effort is there. You're putting in work to improve, to provide for the person you care for. You sound like a great person. But you still feel inadequate. Have you been talking in therapy about those feelings of inadequacy and where they come from?

In any case, she loves you and doesn't think you're a loser at all. She also sounds like someone who is fairly intelligent and knows what she wants. Which is you. Believe her on that.

 

[SoIntoYou]

No i listen to you, i really do. It's just that idk there are times i imagine she'll eventually meet Prince Charming at a conference or something and I'm here talking to strangers over suicide, it's two worlds apart. I don't know what the fuck happened to me ever since I met her. Right now we're on a break so I'm not sure what's going to happen after this. I mean she just finished grad school and I'm barely starting college FFS. And I don't want anyone else. Not at the moment at least. I don't know what I was expecting this is all my fault for not improving myself. I didn't even know you had to do grad school, I thought that was optional, never cared that much tbh. But now I do. Money is always a problem when you don't have it.

Idk i think of this couple, I had an exgf who's father remarried to this very successful career woman and I think he was a carpenter and somehow they made it work.

Well, until she meets that guy and makes the decision to leave you, stop assuming it will happen. In fact, having that mindset will make it happen faster. I don't think my point of "stop measuring yourself by your successes in school or your career" is really taking hold. You're caught up in a lie, that you MUST be successful in order to be worth anything. They keep raising the bar needed to be considered successful. Not so long ago, you could raise a family on a high school education. Then it was a college degree. Now that isn't even enough. It's not unacceptable to chase this staircase, but are you really going to let yourself be ruined by such a rat race? Do you think it stops after you get your first job after grad school? No, it's a never ending climb and competition that ends with you being burned out. Think about your options. Would you rather be happy with a gf who loves you for who you are and not what you could become, or be burned out and divorced/broken up at 50 to someone who cared about that trivial shit? As long as you have food to eat and a roof over your heads, the only improving of yourself you should be worrying about is how to find more joy in your partnership with her, something she values more than your success.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

I can relate to a lot of this and I'm sorry you've been feeling so inadequate. It's the worst feeling. I often felt that way with my ex who believed I was an amazing catch. I was proposed to and everything but I just felt like garbage in comparison, completely undeserving. So I get it and I feel a lot empathy for where you are right now.

I'm going to be honest with you here. This is not about her. This is about how you see yourself. From your post, it's clear to me that you aren't a loser. You're starting college, you have a job, you love your girlfriend. You stopped smoking, you've cleaned up and you've been looking for better work. The effort is there. You're putting in work to improve, to provide for the person you care for. You sound like a great person. But you still feel inadequate. Have you been talking in therapy about those feelings of inadequacy and where they come from?

In any case, she loves you and doesn't think you're a loser at all. She also sounds like someone who is fairly intelligent and knows what she wants. Which is you. Believe her on that.

Fucking depression ruins everything. Oh and i know those feelings have nothing to do with her, it's me and my insecurity one hundred percent. I talk to my therapist and they say the same things you guys are telling me. One therapist said that one of two things we're going to eventually happen, either she convinces me she's right for me, or I convince her that I'm not right for her. That really did the trick for a while but I'm back to feeling like crap. Idk what the fuck is happening. The feeling always comes back. And the other therapist says I shouldn't be so hard on myself but idk how to do that sometimes I feel like I can't stop being hard on myself like it's physically impossible.

 

[SoIntoYou]

Fucking depression ruins everything. Oh and i know those feelings have nothing to do with her, it's me and my insecurity one hundred percent. I talk to my therapist and they say the same things you guys are telling me. One therapist said that one of two things we're going to eventually happen, either she convinces me she's right for me, or I convince her that I'm not right for her. That really did the trick for a while but I'm back to feeling like crap. Idk what the fuck is happening. The feeling always comes back. And the other therapist says I shouldn't be so hard on myself but idk how to do that sometimes I feel like I can't stop being hard on myself like it's physically impossible.

Have you sat down to talk to your gf about this? I think if you did so for a long enough period and REALLY opened up, you could sort out these two eventualities and end your suffering once and for all.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Well, until she meets that guy and makes the decision to leave you, stop assuming it will happen. In fact, having that mindset will make it happen faster. I don't think my point of "stop measuring yourself by your successes in school or your career" is really taking hold. You're caught up in a lie, that you MUST be successful in order to be worth anything. They keep raising the bar needed to be considered successful. Not so long ago, you could raise a family on a high school education. Then it was a college degree. Now that isn't even enough. It's not unacceptable to chase this staircase, but are you really going to let yourself be ruined by such a rat race? Do you think it stops after you get your first job after grad school? No, it's a never ending climb and competition that ends with you being burned out. Think about your options. Would you rather be happy with a gf who loves you for who you are and not what you could become, or be burned out and divorced/broken up at 50 to someone who cared about that trivial shit? As long as you have food to eat and a roof over your heads, the only improving of yourself you should be worrying about is how to find more joy in your partnership with her, something she values more than your success.

I agree one hundred percent with what you're saying, it's not that i don't want to stop measuring by my successes (or lack thereof) it's just that the whole world is trapped in this rat race who are joking? Not everyone can become monks and move to Tibet. Even if not everyone does, my gf (or ex, idek) does, she cares and wants the money and the travels and the shiny things, and how am I supposed to join her on that travel to idk Ibiza and how am I supposed to give her that pretty ring or whatever, everybody wants those things. Maybe not you but maybe you're cousin does. Like, money runs the fucking world. It's the invisible hand, it breaks or makes. Idk. I am taking screenshots of what your saying because I think you been more helpful than a lot of therapist ive been to.

Have you sat down to talk to your gf about this? I think if you did so for a long enough period and REALLY opened up, you could sort out these two eventualities and end your suffering once and for all.

Yes. We're just basically repeating ourselves when we talk about it, and we're on a break right now, because it got too intense. I cannot go back to more of the same I cannot do this to myself or her. It sucks, and I don't want to finish with it is what it is, because it doesn't help anything but I hope something good comes out of this. Maybe she won't take me back next time idk.

 

[SoIntoYou]

I agree one hundred percent with what you're saying, it's not that i don't want to stop measuring by my successes (or lack thereof) it's just that the whole world is trapped in this rat race who are joking? Not everyone can become monks and move to Tibet. Even if not everyone does, my gf (or ex, idek) does, she cares and wants the money and the travels and the shiny things, and how am I supposed to join her on that travel to idk Ibiza and how am I supposed to give her that pretty ring or whatever, everybody wants those things. Maybe not you but maybe you're cousin does. Like, money runs the fucking world. It's the invisible hand, it breaks or makes. Idk. I am taking screenshots of what your saying because I think you been more helpful than a lot of therapist ive been to.

Would you be offended if your gf supported you throughout your lives together? If she paid for the trips, the dinners, the gifts, the house? Never before in history have we seen the roles reversed like this. My mother did this to my step father and he hated her for it. He literally said to her that he was bitter about her doing better than him. What a pitiful state of mind to be in. I know that in order for this to work out for you, you are going to have to break some iron shackles that are holding you down - not a small task. Do you think you are up to it? Also take a step back to see that you're not at rock bottom. You say you finished school, so at least you're putting in the effort. If you gave up and subsequently hit rock bottom, I wouldn't blame her for leaving you. But until then, you are showing some fight. That has to count for something. I'm pretty sure it's something your gf has taken note of.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Would you be offended if your gf supported you throughout your lives together? If she paid for the trips, the dinners, the gifts, the house? Never before in history have we seen the roles reversed like this. My mother did this to my step father and he hated her for it. He literally said to her that he was bitter about her doing better than him. What a pitiful state of mind to be in. I know that in order for this to work out for you, you are going to have to break some iron shackles that are holding you down - not a small task. Do you think you are up to it? Also take a step back to see that you're not at rock bottom. You say you finished school, so at least you're putting in the effort. If you gave up and subsequently hit rock bottom, I wouldn't blame her for leaving you. But until then, you are showing some fight. That has to count for something. I'm pretty sure it's something your gf has taken note of.

I mean I wouldn't mind I think I'd be slightly uncomfortable by it. I know I sound like a huge asshole, patriarcal and shit, and you're right it's a pitiful state of mind to be in, and one quite impossible to break from at that. I'm not sure what i have to do other than what I've been trying to do lately, work out, keep taking my meds, go to therapy, study etc. I'm not sure if we're getting back together because I think I really convinced her last time, but if things don't change, if i don't change, that's it I'm leaving. I know I broke up this time because I genuinely think I'm doing what's right, as crazy as it sounds. I just don't know anymore.

 

[SoIntoYou]

Yes. We're just basically repeating ourselves when we talk about it, and we're on a break right now, because it got too intense. I cannot go back to more of the same I cannot do this to myself or her. It sucks, and I don't want to finish with it is what it is, because it doesn't help anything but I hope something good comes out of this. Maybe she won't take me back next time idk.

OK, I am really interested to know what she has to say about this. Not only because the interaction between you two is probably more important than anything we've talked about so far, but also because if you have talked about this with her at length, then she is definitely in love with you, despite your insecurities.

I mean I wouldn't mind I think I'd be slightly uncomfortable by it. I know I sound like a huge asshole, patriarcal and shit, and you're right it's a pitiful state of mind to be in, and one quite impossible to break from at that. I'm not sure what i have to do other than what I've been trying to do lately, work out, keep taking my meds, go to therapy, study etc. I'm not sure if we're getting back together because I think I really convinced her last time, but if things don't change, if i don't change, that's it I'm leaving. I know I broke up this time because I genuinely think I'm doing what's right, as crazy as it sounds. I just don't know anymore.

Let me ask you something. If you break up with her, what woman would you consider acceptable to let into your life? Would the requirement be someone who couldn't possibly be let down by your lack of confidence and accomplishment? Once again, you'd be making the relationship one-sided. "I don't care how much you love me. I don't think I deserve you". Do you see the selfishness in this? Can't you just let her feel the way she feels about you without making it about yourself? I've recently had to destroy something about myself that really made me feel sad and sick, even. I talked about how women are becoming increasingly independent as time goes on, to the point where they don't need financial help, but also no emotional support, and other things I thought I needed to be the complete man. There are some girls and women out there who are so secure with their lives, that all they want from a guy is sex. I grew up with a lot of Disney bullshit but experienced enough failed relationships to know better. I went through my formative years trying to prepare myself to be the best man I could be. Protective, Available, Financial, Emotional, a good father, good around the house, or even just good in bed. This realization that I've come to recently, that women aren't going to need all that in the future, really blew a hole in my chest. But I learned something - it's OK to give without expectation of return, no obligation, Freedom. Don't make it about someone deserving someone else. Make it about giving to someone that which makes them happy, and taking it as a mutual experience.

 

[agentgeez]

I definitely have to agree with @SoIntoYou here. From my perspective, something like this is so rare in itself that it's mind-boggling to let something that seems like such an arbitrary hurdle get in the way. It's as if someone's giving you a million dollars, but you won't accept it because you're not worthy of so much money. For one, the concept of 'deserving' something means nothing in my book. We think of that concept only because people who 'deserve' things are typically the ones who get them, like a hunter might 'deserve' his prey because he developed and applied the skills needed to catch it. But that concept only serves to be an obstacle for no reason when something unorthodox happens, like, god forbid, someone loving someone selflessly and without expectation of reward. You think you don't deserve this because typically people have to jump through hurdles to get this, but the fact that you don't have to simply means you've got something a lot more special, yet your desire for a less loving and forgiving, less 'special' partner is getting in the way. I also can't say I understand the idea of having to 'love yourself' first; if the opinions of random people shouldn't affect if someone loves you, why should your opinion affect if someone loves you? Without performing any mental gymnastics, it seems logical that the only opinion that determines if someone loves you is that someone's opinion. It's as if the idea that you have to love yourself, rather than you not loving yourself, is what's getting in the way here, since the conflict comes from you not accepting that she wants you or could want you instead of you going along with her wanting you despite your own opinions. Again, I feel like the idea that you have to 'love yourself' is a common cliché that is getting in the way because you're taking things too seriously. I apologize if all that seemed harsh and invalidating of your feelings, but you must understand how insane this sounds to someone in my position, and I don't even know if I believe in love in the first place; I just know that something like this is too rare not to see through, even if it bursts into flames. A chance of heartbreak seems better than almost guaranteed regret due to letting someone slip by because of made-up concepts.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

OK, I am really interested to know what she has to say about this. Not only because the interaction between you two is probably more important than anything we've talked about so far, but also because if you have talked about this with her at length, then she is definitely in love with you, despite your insecurities.

Let me ask you something. If you break up with her, what woman would you consider acceptable to let into your life? Would the requirement be someone who couldn't possibly be let down by your lack of confidence and accomplishment? Once again, you'd be making the relationship one-sided. "I don't care how much you love me. I don't think I deserve you". Do you see the selfishness in this? Can't you just let her feel the way she feels about you without making it about yourself? I've recently had to destroy something about myself that really made me feel sad and sick, even. I talked about how women are becoming increasingly independent as time goes on, to the point where they don't need financial help, but also no emotional support, and other things I thought I needed to be the complete man. There are some girls and women out there who are so secure with their lives, that all they want from a guy is sex. I grew up with a lot of Disney bullshit but experienced enough failed relationships to know better. I went through my formative years trying to prepare myself to be the best man I could be. Protective, Available, Financial, Emotional, a good father, good around the house, or even just good in bed. This realization that I've come to recently, that women aren't going to need all that in the future, really blew a hole in my chest. But I learned something - it's OK to give without expectation of return, no obligation, Freedom. Don't make it about someone deserving someone else. Make it about giving to someone that which makes them happy, and taking it as a mutual experience.

I mean, this is a huge problem in my relationship with her, if I'm not needed at all then what's the point? I know it's all about sharing our own happiness together but if I'm not happy then I guess it's impossible for me to share anything of worth. It sounds strange to answer your question without sounding like an asshole but a woman who not necessarily needs me, but at least makes me feel like I'm needed at some point idk, like feeing like I belong in this relationship without constantly having to prove myself.

I mean my girlfriend might be a sweetheart but she can be very frivolous, those things, the master degree and the driven personality come hand in hand. I actually told her than I just want to RELAX without having to worry about having the perfect body, perfect sex, constant new and interesting conversation, etc. But I guess it's so ingrained in her personality that she can't see past that.

So to answer your question someone I can RELAX with.

I definitely have to agree with @SoIntoYou here. From my perspective, something like this is so rare in itself that it's mind-boggling to let something that seems like such an arbitrary hurdle get in the way. It's as if someone's giving you a million dollars, but you won't accept it because you're not worthy of so much money. For one, the concept of 'deserving' something means nothing in my book. We think of that concept only because people who 'deserve' things are typically the ones who get them, like a hunter might 'deserve' his prey because he developed and applied the skills needed to catch it. But that concept only serves to be an obstacle for no reason when something unorthodox happens, like, god forbid, someone loving someone selflessly and without expectation of reward. You think you don't deserve this because typically people have to jump through hurdles to get this, but the fact that you don't have to simply means you've got something a lot more special, yet your desire for a less loving and forgiving, less 'special' partner is getting in the way. I also can't say I understand the idea of having to 'love yourself' first; if the opinions of random people shouldn't affect if someone loves you, why should your opinion affect if someone loves you? Without performing any mental gymnastics, it seems logical that the only opinion that determines if someone loves you is that someone's opinion. It's as if the idea that you have to love yourself, rather than you not loving yourself, is what's getting in the way here, since the conflict comes from you not accepting that she wants you or could want you instead of you going along with her wanting you despite your own opinions. Again, I feel like the idea that you have to 'love yourself' is a common cliché that is getting in the way because you're taking things too seriously. I apologize if all that seemed harsh and invalidating of your feelings, but you must understand how insane this sounds to someone in my position, and I don't even know if I believe in love in the first place; I just know that something like this is too rare not to see through, even if it bursts into flames. A chance of heartbreak seems better than almost guaranteed regret due to letting someone slip by because of made-up concepts.

Non taken, if anything I appreciate the reply. Honestly at this point the relationship might not even survive the last breakup, I know she still loves me but I've been so mean to her due to my own insecurities. I don't blame her if she leaves. Idk I feel like a joke next to her, like it doesn't matter how much I accomplish I will never be on her level. I know realize it's insane my brain thinks like this, I guess it didn't happened on purpose. Bad parenting idk. Well see how this week goes.

 

[SoIntoYou]

I mean, this is a huge problem in my relationship with her, if I'm not needed at all then what's the point? I know it's all about sharing our own happiness together but if I'm not happy then I guess it's impossible for me to share anything of worth. It sounds strange to answer your question without sounding like an asshole but a woman who not necessarily needs me, but at least makes me feel like I'm needed at some point idk, like feeing like I belong in this relationship without constantly having to prove myself.

I mean my girlfriend might be a sweetheart but she can be very frivolous, those things, the master degree and the driven personality come hand in hand. I actually told her than I just want to RELAX without having to worry about having the perfect body, perfect sex, constant new and interesting conversation, etc. But I guess it's so ingrained in her personality that she can't see past that.

So to answer your question someone I can RELAX with.

Hmm. I'm going to overextend here and say that I think that ever since you got involved with this woman, she has made it clear that she wants more from you? Is that why you're struggling? It's clear she finds pride in her academic accomplishments, but also that she has the patience to be with you, despite your discomfort. Is she trying to make you become something more? If so, that is one determined girl. I can understand why you'd doubt yourself. If she is going to leave you because you don't want to participate in the "rat race", I would let it go. I didn't know much about this girl, but if what I'm saying is true, she's becoming less and less of a saint in my eyes.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Hmm. I'm going to overextend here and say that I think that ever since you got involved with this woman, she has made it clear that she wants more from you? Is that why you're struggling? It's clear she finds pride in her academic accomplishments, but also that she has the patience to be with you, despite your discomfort. Is she trying to make you become something more? If so, that is one determined girl. I can understand why you'd doubt yourself. If she is going to leave you because you don't want to participate in the "rat race", I would let it go. I didn't know much about this girl, but if what I'm saying is true, she's becoming less and less of a saint in my eyes.

I can't really blame her for having this huge standards on perfection, her whole family is very driven and their parents are very strict and expect great things from their children. She also suffers from schizoaffective disorder and is in lithium, so she believes she has to constantly improve herself in order not to fall back into the disease, but it's, to say the least, so demoralizing to be with her sometimes. It's not that she wants me to participate in the rat race, she says she'd love me even if I'm fat and open a barber shop or a hot dog stand (nothing wrong with those things) but then again the rat race and the being successful is so integrated into her personality that she can't see past that and probably believes everyone else is too. She's not an angel, she can very classist at times. But I mean again she says she isn't asking me any of those stuff, even if I perceive them indirectly. Like she obviously don't ask me to have the perfect body but she's happy when she sees me being all fit and slim. It's draining knowing I have to be perfect and an excellent performer in all areas of life while I'm with her even she's not asking for those things directly, they're implied. I remember one time I was taking about how I went to a dietician to get a diet for my depression and she said I was suddenly more attractive and it just rubbed the wrong way and I don't know why. I remember the first time I wanted to break up with her just so I could celebrate with a cheeseburger. Even if she doesn't ask for it, I feel like i do have to be perfect. In every single aspect of life.

 

[SoIntoYou]

I can't really blame her for having this huge standards on perfection, her whole family is very driven and their parents are very strict and expect great things from their children. She also suffers from schizoaffective disorder and is in lithium, so she believes she has to constantly improve herself in order not to fall back into the disease, but it's, to say the least, so demoralizing to be with her sometimes. It's not that she wants me to participate in the rat race, she says she'd love me even if I'm fat and open a barber shop or a hot dog stand (nothing wrong with those things) but then again the rat race and the being successful is so integrated into her personality that she can't see past that and probably believes everyone else is too. She's not an angel, she can very classist at times. But I mean again she says she isn't asking me any of those stuff, even if I perceive them indirectly. Like she obviously don't ask me to have the perfect body but she's happy when she sees me being all fit and slim. It's draining knowing I have to be perfect and an excellent performer in all areas of life while I'm with her even she's not asking for those things directly, they're implied. I remember one time I was taking about how I went to a dietician to get a diet for my depression and she said I was suddenly more attractive and it just rubbed the wrong way and I don't know why. I remember the first time I wanted to break up with her just so I could celebrate with a cheeseburger. Even if she doesn't ask for it, I feel like i do have to be perfect. In every single aspect of life.

OK, since she says she'll love you no matter you're physical or financial situation, but you feel like you have to be perfect, this just goes back to what we've been talking about this entire thread. It's there, you've heard it, you think about it. If you are able to find peace with yourself and accept her into your life, there's no telling what doors will open up for you two. The future is undoubtedly unpredictable, but positive mindsets are proven to lead to better paths. Try the mindset that that every little thing WILL get better. You might feel so good that you want to match her intensity, which I'm sure would make her even happier.

 

[agentgeez]

I can't really blame her for having this huge standards on perfection, her whole family is very driven and their parents are very strict and expect great things from their children. She also suffers from schizoaffective disorder and is in lithium, so she believes she has to constantly improve herself in order not to fall back into the disease, but it's, to say the least, so demoralizing to be with her sometimes. It's not that she wants me to participate in the rat race, she says she'd love me even if I'm fat and open a barber shop or a hot dog stand (nothing wrong with those things) but then again the rat race and the being successful is so integrated into her personality that she can't see past that and probably believes everyone else is too. She's not an angel, she can very classist at times. But I mean again she says she isn't asking me any of those stuff, even if I perceive them indirectly. Like she obviously don't ask me to have the perfect body but she's happy when she sees me being all fit and slim. It's draining knowing I have to be perfect and an excellent performer in all areas of life while I'm with her even she's not asking for those things directly, they're implied. I remember one time I was taking about how I went to a dietician to get a diet for my depression and she said I was suddenly more attractive and it just rubbed the wrong way and I don't know why. I remember the first time I wanted to break up with her just so I could celebrate with a cheeseburger. Even if she doesn't ask for it, I feel like i do have to be perfect. In every single aspect of life.

I can understand this. Even with constant reassurance or perhaps even because of this constant reassurance, the mindset of having to constantly improve and be perfect is hard to break; even I'm still stuck in it despite questioning you. But also, I wonder if she actually wants this of you too; despite all she's said, she still says she gets more attracted to you when you do things like talk to a dietitian. I can see why this rubs the wrong way because despite saying she's happy with you how you are, she clearly wants/prefers it when you change yourself. I understand that this is said to be because someone can love you for who you are and also push you to improve, but I don't see how the ideas can coexist. It sounds like she's saying she's okay with who you are in order to push you to change, which I've experienced in the past. At the same time, I don't want to advise you to back off because this really could be a special thing. I've often thought that I would prefer a partner that is the same type of dysfunctional as I am, since I think that's the only way we can truly understand each other, and the only way I can relax, since I don't have to reach a different standard; it means we're equal. I can see this is the type of relationship you want too, and it does make sense, but I don't think we should jump to conclusions and say she doesn't truly love you or that it won't work out. As far as evidence of her love goes, nothing has definitively shown her words to be lies, and like I said earlier, I think the cost of failure here still is less than the cost of regret. Perhaps being in the same position in life or having the same mindset isn't necessary for understanding someone, so for now I think the best thing to do is not to rush to match her expectations nor preemptively dump her; you should do what's best for your happiness and see if she is compatible with your way of life after all.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

I mean I wouldn't mind I think I'd be slightly uncomfortable by it. I know I sound like a huge asshole, patriarcal and shit, and you're right it's a pitiful state of mind to be in, and one quite impossible to break from at that.

Let me try and give you a man's perspective on this issue. It's not a patriarchal state of mind. That word is tossed around way too much nowadays. It's beginning to lose any meaning it had to begin with. I don't blame you for being uncomfortable. I too would feel very uncomfortable and emasculated if my wife did most of the financial heavy lifting. Men have the instinct to lead and provide. It doesn't have to be in the toxic manner of our fathers but it's not something you can ignore. You will always want to wear the pants regardless of what modern feminism says.

That being said, you're actually doing great. In my experience with women, most of them are very reasonable. All they need is to see is that effort is being made. You may not have a lot but you're making serious efforts to improve your situation. For most women, that's enough to inspire love and loyalty. Stop beating yourself up, you're on the right track. Try and see if the relationship can be salvaged. Open up about your fears and you'll be shocked by what you hear. I've been there before and got the kind of advice you keep getting even here. If you really want this, keep making the efforts you've been making. Never apologize for your masculinity but also never let it get in your way. Find a balance. All the best, friend.

 

[Meditation guide]

Men have the instinct to lead and provide. It doesn't have to be in the toxic manner of our fathers but it's not something you can ignore. You will always want to wear the pants regardless of what modern feminism says.

I know a Christian man who's wife is the breadwinner of the family while he stays home. He still is considered the boss of the family and controls things at home with an iron fist. He has no problem letting her go to a job every day. In fact I know more than one situation like this.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

I get what you are saying. Just I'm a female.My ex boyfriend is very successful in his work and academic achievements. My depression started in this relationship. I constantly felt like shit, not good enough, second and not a partner.Constant thoughts of maybe he will find someone better, constant pressure. Constantly thinking of how to meet these standards. Obviously this affected my self esteem massively. And here I am, sanctioned suicide. I fell your pain.

Have you meet her parents?

Yeah I met them, the mother is lovely but her father is shit. I can't believe I met someone who's experience is quite similar, did breaking up the relationship helped you in some way? Would you mind sharing a little more to your story?

 

[Deleted member 17949]

While I want to say that she clearly loves you, this isn't about her. The reality is that you did not feel comfortable in the relationship so you ended it. You have your reasons and they are valid. You tried to make things work, but you are struggling a lot in life at the moment and this is clearly something that you can't deal with right now. Respect for you bro, you're doing really well so don't let stumbles like this kill your overall success.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

I know a Christian man who's wife is the breadwinner of the family while he stays home. He still is considered the boss of the family and controls things at home with an iron fist. He has no problem letting her go to a job every day. In fact I know more than one situation like this.

There's always exceptions to every rule. I've seen men like this as well, few and far between. That's te beauty of being human, we can choose not to follow our instincts.