[Must Read] A good post on having a peaceful death

[TAW122]

I found a good thread on another uncommon subreddit, r/rightodie and by the user named, TechnicalTerm6.

In his thread, he posted (copied from the thread just in case Reddit censors or deletes it, it's too valuable to be lost!) :

I originally posted this in r/rant and I was surprised, as I received some interesting discussion going vs the expected angry people. So that was a nice thing.
I've copy and pasted it. Not to try and convince anybody here, lol obviously.
Rather....partially just to put my words out there. And to relax honestly. Cause it's nice every once in a while to hear actual encouragement from folks who agree with your niche opinion, vs having to convince people so hard.
With that said... buckle up. I've been told it's a long post.
This opinion is based on years of personal & interpersonal experience; research; news; knowledge of historical patterns; and generally just being a human alive in 2020. I say this not to sound condescending or impressive or what have you-- more to let folks know I'm not unaware of the implications of my opinion.
To be honest, I was unsure whether I'd ever post this. But due to some odd events I've decided to do so.
The odd events
For the past two days in a row, I went to take the metro in my city, and 3 separate times in those two days, my journey was stopped, rerouted, and paused again (for hours) because 3 separate times, a person was (likely 3 different persons) found illegally at track level & the electrical system needed to be shut down.
For those who don't know, that's the official-to-public lingo for "someone is trying to commit suicide by jumping or touching the 3rd rail".
The responses by the humans around me whose travel was also interrupted, surprised me. Usually I consider the general opinion of folks on this subject to be quite conservative. But humans near me said, and I quote:

• "if they're going to do that, at least don't inconvenience thousands of people"
• "if you're already going to be inconsiderate to your family, at least don't do it to hundreds of people too"
• "why don't they just jump off a bridge"
• "thank goodness they stopped the person just before they did so// but the person is upset now and resisting leaving"

I was floored, and so began to chip into some convos, that "if there were other places people could go to commit suicide, they would. But that's not really an option..." but said it quietly. Just in case. People were too wrapped up in being frustrated to respond much. Which I totally understand in this heat. But it left me wondering...
How many people have clear knowledge on how difficult suicide is? Or on how many barriers there are to doing so? On why people do it?
With that all said, here is my (usually) unpopular opinion:
I think any human who no longer wishes to exist, should be provided with a guaranteed, financial and social barrier free, respectful way, to exit existence.
Every human ought to have the right to financially affordable, judgment free, comfortable, safe & guaranteed suicide methods/ assistance in a facility designed for that.
1) Financially affordable: it needs to be a government or community funded program so it is open to the entire public. Not one that is privatized or requires a certain income level to access.
2) Judgment free: who am I to tell you how you feel in your own body and life experience? Who am I to suggest your life is worth living....to you? I am no one to suggest that for you. And you are no one to suggest that for me. In this hypothetical venue, no one would be harsh on someone else for suffering that much, and choosing to leave.
3) Comfortable: not everyone who desires to die, has the constitution to shoot themself, jump off a cliff, take pills, or hang themself.
4) Safe & guaranteed: by safe, it means no one will try to interrupt mid-procedure rendering you in an alive but incapacitated state; no one will call the police or your family to tell them. Safe as in confidentiality, & safe from pain and suffering. Just a nice peaceful end. Guaranteed as in, not waking up mid-process, not surviving it to be arrested or detained in a mental health facility at length (to be potentially abused or traumatized further, against yourwill). Guaranteed in a way current suicides are not.
5) A facility designed for it: The ideal would be a calm surrounding (think RMT or physio therapist's office). A death doulas or the folks assisting with the procedure, taking some time talking with the person: going over details, perhaps a goodbye center to chat with people if you wanted to do that. A space to come in weeks ahead of time and plan a legal will. Burial or cremation or other post life instructions. Then being given some form of anaesthetic, followed by an injection to complete the procedure. Just a brief idea, not fully described. But something like this.
The same way there are centres for folks who want to have abortions, I think there ought to be centres for folks who want to commit suicide. People debate all day long whether an unborn baby is a baby or not, whether it has rights or not, whether it even exists as a person, or not.
But then we have actual people who one hundred percent guaranteed do exist, who want to not exist and we as a society are for the most part fine ignoring their plight until we, like the folks I've run into the past two days, are inconvenienced by their attempts. (When I say we, I don't mean you and I specifically: I mean Western society)
It's not as simple as "just doing it", as if people are free to commit suicide anytime they want.
When it comes to suicide, people are forbidden by all kinds of things: laws, social structures, personal emotional constitution, physical ability.

• Someone may have fibro or chronic pain/ fatigue, and be unable to do what would be needed.
• Or they're on medications that would interact adversely, but not kill them.
• Someone may have anxiety and buying things to do so feels like too much of a risk but so does the rest of their life even though on meds and therapy.
• Many provinces, states and countries have specific laws about attempting suicide (so if it fails, for any multitude of reasons, the result could be a fine, forced confinement in an institution, or prison; leaving the person worse off than before).
• There is no guarantee that the method chosen will in fact work without someone coming to try and "save" or "rescue" them. So they may not die. They may end up mangled, disabled, in a coma, etc. Again, potentially worse off than before the attempt.
• Some humans who have experienced severe trauma (or even those who have not) don't have the constitution required to jump off a bridge, shoot or hang themself, or take a bunch of pills. Those things involve anxiety, difficulty, pains and spasms.
• Some people would apply for assisted suicide but they are too young, or otherwise don't meet the criteria.
• Some might have the constitution, and know the most likely way to be guaranteed to die, but they don't want their loved ones/ anyone finding them in a room missing chunks of their face.
• Many folks desiring to not exist would prefer the ability to have an adult conversation with the people close to them (if they do have such people) and say something akin to "hey I don't want to exist anymore/ life is too much for me/ etc". Then a goodbye/ respectful interaction/ planning of a will or what to do with ones body, if such talks are desired. Rather than just disappearing or jumping in front of a train. But if someone is in sufficient pain....humans do tough things.
• Sometimes the difficult part about suicide, is a lot of people say they "had no idea or way of knowing" that it would happen. Of course the person who is choosing this is aware it might hurt people. But if they're experiencing pain, they're going to do what they need to do to take care of themselves. And if they are not telling, its because they do not wish to be talked out of it.

Forcing someone to stay alive when they're unwilling (or unable) to do or access the emotional/ psychological work required to better or maintain their existence, is cruel and illogical.
With or without therapy; with or without medications, some humans just don't have the capacity "get better", (for those folks who view suicidal thoughts as an illness). And some are just so pained by the state of the world in general, that they are soul-and-body-weary of pain, suffering, and maintaining their human body/witnessing so many millions suffer daily too.
I don't think we should force other humans to suffer based on one set of prevailing values. Doing that, is why a lot of folks are opposed to autocratic systems; dictatorships; some conservative religions...
Any large group that makes large swathing decisions for individual personal lives, tends to get people upset; because it's their life. They didn't ask to be born, but now they're alive and they want to be able to do as they want with their own selves.
Some people just so happen to have experienced life and, for any multitude of reasons, it is now unbearable for them. People want to live the way they want to live, and I think this freedom should extend to dying as well.
The trouble I think, is not as much the person committing suicide: the troubles are this society's (I.e. of US and Canada) attitudes towards life, grief, and ownership.
1) Life: Life is almost always viewed as a 'gift', at least it is by the overwhelming majority of people. It is seen as an overwhelmingly positve thing. So, socially speaking, it would be a faux-pas to discuss it in a manner suggesting that life is not always a gift, but can sometimes just be suffering. Or that everyone else can still see life however they want, but that individuals ought to be able to decide that for themselves.
2) Grief: Western Society, at the very least, is terrible at grieving. Unless one chooses to visit a therapist, or their family happens to be particularly psychologically equipped, an individual may be lost when it comes to grieving loss in their life. And even then, people still expect the person grieving to get "better". To "get over" the divorce, the cheating, their friend being murdered, their dog running away, not getting chosen for the role in the school play, etc.
In terms of how much time off work people are allowed depends on how close the person was to you legally or relationally; not necessarily how you felt about them or how important the connection was to you.
There is no manual for processing, or rather there are.... lol. There are many. But none of those actually make a person instantly feel less awful. Yet people assume after a year or so it should be "better"; but what if it isn't?
And if someone commits suicide.... we are at an even bigger loss. Even in 2020 it's still so hushed. Banned from discussion in most social media. As if people are afraid everyone will join them? (Aside: How good can life be if the only way to prevent mass suicide is to not talk about it?)
How the fuck are people to grieve, if they can't discuss it? How are people to learn that, if someone wants to not live, badly enough, they're just going to do it and there is likely nothing you can do about it. (Except maybe directly telling everyone you know that you are okay discussing the subject and not going to authorities. That way....you may still be unable to prevent it, but you would be aware of it and be able to support them that way).
The idea of preventing someone else from stopping their pain, just to reduce/ prevent our own pain, is... understandable, but also not a kind thing to do.
I would argue that it is not empathy for the individual themself, that drives people to "rescue people" from suicide. It is typically a sense of obligation: legal, religious, what your parents taught you, your own morals etc. Or a desire to spare yourself/ the person's friends and family, suffering. But it is not often empathy for that person. Because empathy for that human would involve jumping into their shoes and their perspective. Of understand that sometimes... people hurt too deeply and just can't anymore. And that while letting them go is hard, and while you don't necessarily understand, it may be the correct choice anyhow.
3) Ownership: We (again, Western society) often view suicide as someone doing something they shouldn't be allowed to. But if I do not own my life, to end it when I choose, who does own it? If I do not have the right to guarantably and respectfully remove myself from existing, and if I had no say in existing to begin with, then who really owns me?
Who really owns you?
Does the government own us? Our relationships with coworkers, or families and friends? Our jobs? Responsibilities? What about people who don't have family left and few close friends? Why do they still not have the right to not exist? And at what point in someone's pain does none of those things matter-- if it will only mean the hurting of being alive stops.
E.g. Some people would look at Dave, 58, a stage 4 cancer patient, and say:
"If he asked, we would agree that assisted suicide is reasonable for him because:

• a) we can visually see his suffering, therefore know it objectively exists,
• b) we know it will end in death anyhow, and
• c) an earlier death can reduce his extreme physical suffering."

But in the case of Alice, 35, who has lived all her years filled with constant traumas---I won't list what traumas she has. But I'm sure you can fill in the blanks and imagine some for her/ & people she knows and is related to---
She is potentially emotionally suffering the same amount as Dave, but we cannot see that physically or measure it. So to her we suggest:

• Therapy. "Coping skills". Medication. Meditation.
• Herbal teas. Positive thinking. Religion.
• Some people even have the audacity to suggest she deserved her suffering, or that she is not trying hard enough at "getting better".

But what if Alice does not have the energy to do the work necessary to be/ feel less traumatized? What if medications make her feel worse? What if she views learning coping mechanisms as pointless? (Pointless when so many humans other than herself, exist in abuse, poverty, disasters; who have dreams they cannot and will never fulfill; that the world is burning and being alive is pointless; that even if she recovers now she will hurt again one day).
We suggest such humans are "mentally unstable", and therefore insufficently balanced to make such a choice as suicide. That "if they were better they could decide". But that logic doesn't work.
If they have tried all human means to remedy their brain's concept of existence-- which is bullshit really, to blame the person for being a "pessimist", when the world is literally and figuratively burning-- but let's say for argument's sake it's just her perspective that is the issue and not the world at large with all its diseases, natural and human made disasters, oppression, effort, poverty and discomfort.
If it is her perspective that is making her suffer, and she is unable to alter it, with therapy or meds or anything else, and she still wants to die; why would we force her to stay alive?
If we say we care about her life, and she says her life is suffering; is it really benefitting her by staying alive?
Do we care more about the fact she is objectively just breathing, than we do about the condition of her heart or mind/ experience & quality of life?
Furthermore, if someone, anyone (e.g. 30, or 58, or 19; white, black or Asian; bisexual or gay; Muslim, Christian, or atheist) has not tried all the world's pharmaceuticals or homeopathics, but wants to die, why is Western society's first thoughts about a person being suicidal, is that they are the incorrect one?
The automatic response is the same. If I've seen it once I've seen it a hundred times: people aggressively asserting that "life is worth living". "It gets better". "Small things matter." That the person is distressed or exaggerating how awful things are. Clearly the issue is the person themself. rolls eyes
(Aside: What they don't say is that life may get better, but definitely will also get worse again. That there are no guarantees of anything improving to a satisfactory level for that individual. That life and all that it entails, is simply too much for many humans to cope with).
Did we ask that person, first, before all the platitudes of life being rosy: how they feel in their body or mind; what they do every day; what their life involves; their access to healthcare, job security, emotional support, financial resources?
Do we know if they have friends, family; anyone who cares? Do we know how empathic they are, or how deeply they feel for the suffering of others physically, as well as emotionally?
Not often. We (again, Western society) usually just asserts they are unwell and need help. "Life is worth living!" So we must rescue them....and then we feel better. Even though we have effectively "saved them" from the only guaranteed way out of suffering that exists for some humans in the world we live in.
I'm prepared for some backlash about this post
But if you'll permit, I have some requests.
First, if this line of thought is unfamiliar to you, I'd gently request you sit with what you have read for a few hours, or a few days, if you happen to be thinking of responding out of hostility or indignation.
Second, if it makes you upset, consider why. I know this is the internet, but I'd rather folks take the time to think a bit more than usual immediate responses.
I figure I may as well ask, seeing as, if you've chosen to read all of this, you're the kind of person who is "in for the long haul" anyhow.
This is not an easy topic for me to post on, but I also believe it is important enough to discuss that I'm willing to do so.
Humans are everywhere, suffering, tired of being alive, hurting. Yet day in and day out, they continue living because they are unable to leave/ die, for whatever reasons.
Last: I need to be abundantly clear;
neither this opinion nor I, am suggesting :

• eugenics
• murder
• mass suicide
• to remove therapists, medications, doctors, herbal remedies, existing options to help folks cope with the terribleness of life
• that it would be simple or easy to create this new structure
• that some people wouldn't find a way to harm others using it--the way people do with every system that exists.

I am suggesting

• That each individual belongs to themself
• You belong to yourself and you must live with yourself, day in and day out; and if you do not want to keep existing there shouldn't be so many barriers to stop you from dying/ making it painful to do so.
• Other people belong to their own selves and they should be able to choose for their own body without a law made by society, or the govt, restricting them from doing so or considering it. I.e. Just because person A doesn't want to do this does not mean they should prevent person Z from doing so.
• There ought to be an additional option available, added to the current "phone a friend/ call this number" if you feel suicidal. An option that allows people to circumvent the red tape, to not be alone at the end, & to find peace in a way that being a human alive, simply and undeniably, does not give everyone.

Thanks for reading.

I almost feel like I could have written this, but this guy has expressed his points very clearly and eloquently. He talks about how we should have a dignified death, about how society forbids death and requires humans to stay alive at almost all costs, then the consequences that result from it (including people who then resort to other means of CTBing), and then most importantly, he talks about the process of a dignified death, which I am in agreeance with. Anyways, I think it is a great article worth reading and exploring in detail.

 

[TAW122]

Bumping this as I think this is a good thread to read and while our criteria will vary between each other, the general idea of having a peaceful death is common among us.

 

[CSSLAVE]

Same. Should be pinned to the top.

 

[danlippers67]

Bumping this as I think this is a good thread to read and while our criteria will vary between each other, the general idea of having a peaceful death is common among us.

Common what

 

[Marcus Wright]

Common what

Why are you replying to a 2 years old thread by a deactivated member though?

 

[FuneralCry]

This post is very well written. I am glad this is on the front page of the forum, and I am very glad that I read it. I wish we lived in a society where our right to die is respected, all I want is to peacefully end my suffering.

 

[J&L383]

I agree. If someone decides to end their existence here on earth, it would be easier and safer, with no shame and no regrets.

 

[hellispink]

i wish everyone would think like this person, jesus. Its what we need. People to understand that life is a choice and not everyone wants it or needs it.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

The person who wrote this is incredibly intelligent and insightful and empathetic.
We need more people like this in this cruel and dreadful world.