Many outsiders think SaSu is a cult and its warping my perception of everything

[CannabisMuncher]

I dont know anymore. Im kind of scared to be honest. I mean it definitely has cult characteristics but is it really one? Ive never thought so. Many things seem cultish to the naked eye, even if it isnt, yk? but some people online have been warping my mind and making me believe otherwise and its scaring me
I dont know who is lying to me
I need somebody to help me understand why people think we are a cult. Are we? Even if this WAS a cult honestly i feel like id still stay anyway because i believe in this community's beliefs too. I feel supported here. Am i being manipulated? Am i going insane?? I am not in a cult I refuse to believe that and i need to know what you guys think about this. My perception is being manipulated by these people outside the community and im scared
I dont mean to start any arguements either im just really split and idk who to believe, because both this community and the people telling me these things are both groups that make me happy so i dont know what to think anymore

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I absolutely despise cults. One of my biggest fears is finding myself to be in one so if this site really was a cult there's no way I'd be here.

Here's a quick and easy way to determine whether or not something you're a part of actually is a cult or not though: https://cult-escape.com/cult-test/

Note that literally none of these really apply to SS, at least not in my experience. People are probably throwing the cult term around because they see it as being as much of a scary thing as suicide is to them. Personally I think being in a cult is way scarier than suicide but that's just me.

 

[silent.desperation]

I was raised in a cult. This is not a cult. End of.

If anything, I am here BECAUSE of a cult...

 

[CannabisMuncher]

I absolutely despise cults. One of my biggest fears is finding myself to be in one so if this site really was a cult there's no way I'd be here.

Here's a quick and easy way to determine whether or not something you're a part of actually is a cult or not though: https://cult-escape.com/cult-test/

Note that literally none of these really apply to SS, at least not in my experience. People are probably throwing the cult term around because they see it as being as much of a scary thing as suicide is to them. Personally I think being in a cult is way scarier than suicide but that's just me.

while that is true there are non religious cults that have characteristics of this site and im scared about it. I dont believe it is but at the same time my idea of it is being molded by people outside our community. Im just hoping theyre wrong because i love jt here

 

[FuneralCry]

How is it a cult believing that individuals have a right to die? I don't get it, like suicide is a personal decision, we never consented to this existence in the first place and aren't obligated to continue, the "cult" is this pro-life society where people insist that others must continue delaying their inevitable fate no matter what. It's very cultish how pro-life people wish to make existence into a prison where one cannot peacefully die on their own terms. It's also cultish how they label everyone who has the awareness that existence is undesirable as being "ill" even know it's simply seeing existence for what is truly is. I think the most cultish behaviour in my opinion is where pro-lifers lock suicidal people up in psych wards simply for wanting to escape from this existence that was so cruelly imposed in the first place.

 

[rozeske]

In short, no it is not. There was once a guy who accused the site of those theories, you should read the answer addressed to him, If you haven't already. But in the end if you are having trouble relating to the ideologies of this site, be it the recovery section or the suicide section then maybe this is not the place for you.

My response to Tantacrul and his video.

The youtuber Tantacrul, also known in this forum as @Jonels, finally recorded a video about this community, in which he slandered and insulted our members and I've decided to respond to him directly. He has been obsessed with this forum for the last few weeks, creating alt-account after...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It's not a cult. It's seen as a cult because acceptance of suicide is highly incongruent with normative societal beliefs and there have been bona fide cults whose members ha

 

[CannabisMuncher]

OP if you think about it, sasu is pro-choice and a safe space to discuss but not encourage suicide and methods. Any attempt to make unsolicited suggestions or do anything to intimidate or coerce will be warned and eventually banned of they repeat. Uncertainty of suicide is not met with suicidal reassurance but advice that typically suggests you question of suicide is the option. Sasu will only seem like a cult because it allows what no others do. Pro-lifers are banned because there's plenty of other forums discouraging suicide and it can feel overwhelming for those who feel suicide is their only option.

I get it. Its just really scary to hear it from people yk?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

while that is true there are non religious cults that have characteristics of this site and im scared about it. I dont believe it is but at the same time my idea of it is being molded by people outside our community. Im just hoping theyre wrong because i love jt here

Even non-religious cults are run by the same playbook where they rely on over charismatic leaders, constantly taking your money, and pressuring you not to leave if you get suspicious because that's how cults survive. It's not cultish for people to simply have similar beliefs and experiences. If you enjoy being here, then stay. If you don't, then leave. It's as easy as that.

The people telling you this place must be a cult likely have their own agenda whether it's to keep you alive no matter how much you're suffering or maybe they just can't accept their own reality and so they get off on forcing other people to live on it. I really don't know and no one should really care. That's the beauty of this place.

 

[GreenMarsh]

Hey OP,

When I first joined the site, I was worried about this too.

After being here for a while, I can honestly say it's not at all like that. Generally speaking, most people here encourage others to do their own critical thinking in regards to whether or not they want to go through with their suicide. I've also personally interacted with a lot of the community members, all of whom are pretty normal, regular people who just want to CTB.
I think another aspect of why this isn't a cult is that there is no "central" figure to worship, or any dogma we stick to so blindly that we become rabid. And ideally, no one should be denying the effects of therapy and psychiatric medicine with weird conspiratorial and anti-medicinal views.

 

[Seered Doom]

It's okay, OP. You seem rather worried and I've had that paranoia when I started too. I will tell you now that you'll never see a more diverse group of people all with one common aspect in a site. Keep an open mind and take some deep breaths. You'll realize the massive amount of support you can get here. If you want to PM someone, I'm willing to lend an open inbox

 

[SexyIncél]

The question is: are THEY structured as cults?

Have you been in a workplace with a hierarchy of leaders, who dictate what you can & can't say, and you have to obey all their commands for half your waking hours? Is the entire system of making things structured that way?

Are you surrounded by propaganda designed to put images in your head? Are your information systems ("news") untrustworthy?

Is your country led by squabbling cults, each of which demand ideological obedience from its social managers, who every few years put a single leader in charge of it?

 

[Alpercino]

What if we started a cult and get together in a place and help each other in all possible legal ways to CTB without having to fear getting buchered looking for partners online?

 

[Forever Sleep]

From my perspective: no- I don't think this is a cult. I would however agree that it has elements of being an echo chamber. So- I'd say- no- there isn't coercion here to push 'ordinary' people to want to kill themselves. Most people who come here already want to kill themselves.

However- given that we are a group of usually quite unhappy, pessimistic, cynical people- the rhetoric doesn't tend to be positive! There isn't quite so much of a balanced view of the world because we are all struggling so much in it and most of the hopes we had were likely mangled over and over- so- people don't have much hope here.

So- it tends to be heavily along the lines of:

Life is shit.
Yes- life is shit. I really sympathise with what you've gone through- it was terrible.
I want to give up and end it.
We can see why you would- we do too.

So- I'd say- it isn't coercion but there isn't much balance either. If you really want people to give you options- it may be better to post in the recovery section or- to find forums that are more pro-life. It really depends on what you want.

If something within you though is saying- I'm not sure I agree with all this negativity but I feel like it's dragging me down- then- it's maybe time to take a break. Just generally, if something seems to be negatively impacting our mental well being- we should avoid it.

Really though- on the whole cult thing. From this quick Google search- the ten tell tale signs and why I'd argue they don't apply here. From source:

What Actually Constitutes a Cult?

A cult is a social group that is committed to an ideology or leader. Learn more about what a cult is and how to recognize that a group is a cult.

www.verywellmind.com

So- going through their major points:

- Cults usually have leaders. Who would you say is the leader here? I'd say there wasn't one. It's a forum where multiple people contribute.

- What is the message here? Primarily, I'd say we are pro-choice. That does include the choice to live. That's why we have a recovery section. Granted- there are some members that would no doubt prefer it if the suicide section was more promortalist but- they're not in charge!

- All of the spats that go on here- mainly about pro-life vs. pro-death sentiments, the idea of gatekeeping suicide, the problem with suicides amongst minors. All of these contentious issues are always coming up in threads and being argued over. Cults don't usually tolerate much disagreement. There is usually a central idea everyone needs to stick to.

Where this does have some relevance is with regards to pro-choice ideas. That's the one thing this place does uphold. Most people here will agree that adults of sound mind have the right to end their own lives. People who are anti-choice will of course disagree with this and say we have no business promoting this idea.

- Cults often have weird financial aspects to them. They quite often look to defraud people. Payment is voluntary here.

- It's debatable whether you think our fears about the outside world are reasonable. It's not impossible that some members here will be paranoid on occassion or even delussional. Some of us will openly admit we are suffering with mental illness. That doesn't mean we are all afraid of the same threats though. I'd say most people's worries here are actually pretty standard of the regular worries out there- loneliness, financial worries, problems with heath, concerns about the future. Seems reasonable to me. We're hardly trying to persuade one another to be afraid of a particular threat either. We tend to just be expressing our own fears.

- Cults tend to feel annoyed, even aggressive towards people who leave. I very much doubt you'd find that here. We wish people luck if they decide to leave and rebuild their lives!

- Cults are often abusive to individual members- I'd hope that doesn't go on much here. You're always going to get bad apples but- our mods are fast to act- in my experience.

- Supposedly, cults often make members feel they are not good enough. I'd say this place is the reverse of that. Most of us come here because we either have felt like that in ordinary life! Or- we don't even care to be judged by those standards to begin with.

- The last two points refer to a cult's leader. If you believe there is in fact a leader here- I'd suggest looking at their posts and see whether everyone here agrees with them. I doubt it!

So- a cult? No. An echo-chamber? Largely, yes. In my opinion. You can of course say- an echo chamber isn't healthy either. Probably not. I'd say for the reverse reasons- Instagram, Facebook and Linkedin are echo chambers of the opposite nature: 'Life's so f*cking fantastic and I'm doing so well in it! Just look at how well I'm doing everyone! Are you doing as well as I am?' I wouldn't say that was terribly healthy either! Here is simply the reverse of that.

But no- it may not be all that good to be around if you're actually fighting to stay positive. You need to assess that yourself really. I'm sorry you are feeling so frightened and confused. To be honest, I avoid places that are very anti this place because I know it will wind me up. That's not to say you shouldn't look though. We all have to make up our own mind. That's the most crucial point that I would argue really- this place encourages a person to make up their own mind. A cult wouldn't! I think you'd do best to Google what a cult is- similar to the above website and- make your own conclusions... Sorry for the essay! Thank you if you read it!

 

[ijustwishtodie]

No cult would ever say they are one as the main goal of cults tends to be to increase their followers. That isn't to say that this place is a cult but rather that you should analyse the site for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Relying on what most people say vs what people here say isn't really adequate enough to come to your conclusion. Additionally, concluding that this place is a cult because most people claim that it is uses a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populam where you think something is true because most people claim that it is true

For one, keep in mind that this site has a recovery section and that people have recovered because of this site. Additionally, people here see suicide as a choice rather than something that everybody here has to do. In my opinion, I think that the true cults are the ones who preach about the joys of living to no end and insinuate that everybody has to live no matter what.. but of course we have differing views and you don't really have to agree with that


Also, people think that this site is a cult because they see sharing information regarding suicide methods as encouraging people to kill themselves but, in truth, these informations are displayed here so that people don't have to use brutal methods and/or methods that are unlikely to cause death but extremely likely to cause damage to the body.. such as cutting wrists for example. People also tend to falsely assume that people die *because* of this site rather than their own life situations and hence that this site is a cult which encourages people to die. But, then again, you're free to make your own conclusions regarding this

 

[Groundhog_Day]

Society seems to be much more of a cult than this forum. Doesn't it seem strange that it is taboo to tell anyone that you have suicidal thoughts?

At the end of the day I know, that we work all our lives to pay for a cage they own. It ain't no coincidence that the whole world is caught in an endless debt. The violence, illusion they're using to rule us, building their Babylon. Cog - Problem, reaction, solution.

 

[breezeboy]

I stopped entertaining imbeciles a long time ago.
I love not giving a fuck what others think. It always makes them mad that their stupid little opinion has no effect on me.

 

[Seered Doom]

In other words, OP, several of us understand your position and this place, as a sanctuary, isn't a cult by any means. It may seem scary to most outside of the forums. If this place makes you feel supported, then why not stay? If you're getting what you need from it, then that's a good thing.

 

[pole]

am I the only one who has instead felt this way about the groups of people criticizing the site?

step back for a second and just think about broad mental health discussions and therapeutic interventions. the whole toxic positivity mindset.

being shamed and made to feel like we're sick and unwell for experiencing complex human emotions, much of it being a rational response to our pain and suffering, which comes from the struggles of everyday life.

"othered" and isolated for your negative emotions and the only choice you have is to get with the times! become like us, turn those dark feelings the other way and embrace a positive mentality! get medicated, go to therapy.

wait you don't take medication, go to therapy, and you choose to experience negative feelings? what the fuck is wrong with you? just be positive. people love you. look at us! we're doing just fine! find god, surround yourself with people, and love life. we all go through ups and downs!

toxic positivity and how these people come off as is performative, superficial, and empty. they are human beings that have no understanding of what others are going through. they see the world as black and white. they are the reason why we're still at the stage of discussing whether therapy and taking medication can solve all our problems. many of them are uncomfortable and afraid of vulnerability and struggle with confronting negative feelings.

no, we are not a cult.

in contrast, many of us accept and embrace vulnerability. we face these dark thoughts and negative feelings that are uncomfortable and nerve-racking to the average person. to someone who struggles to empathize and hasn't walked in our shoes, that is alien to them. they do not understand it and that leads to… well they're the problem. look at those sick, negative people.

breath and take a step back. if someone is trying to dictate and tell you how you should feel, what you should do, then you're staring right at the fucking problem.

 

[CannabisMuncher]

thank you all for the supportive words, i really do love yall

 

[Seered Doom]

Anytime. You deserve a lot of care and respect.

 

[dreamscape1111]

Decide for yourself what's true.

Never outsource that to anyone else, you are the ultimate authority with important things like this.

The videos below explain the importance of studying cult psychology.

What cults fundamentally are and how to avoid being sucked into them.





Also, here's an interesting spiritual perspective on why people commit suicide. Set my head straight many times.

 

[Orange Cat]

It's not a cult. No one is forcing anybody to come on here. People can leave anytime that they want to. All they have to do is close the tab on their browser and never come back. Real cults don't let you leave so easily.

We talk about all aspects of suicide on here rather openly on here because it is a taboo subject and we can't do it anywhere else. But we aren't a death cult. There is no central dogma on here that is being forced onto people. It is a pro choice forum, and people are encouraged to to think for themselves and to make their own decision. If someone crosses the line and tries to egg someone toward suicide, they are banned.

This forum isn't for everyone though. If coming on here makes you feel worse then you shouldn't come on here anymore for your own sake.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

My boyfriend was in a cult and in a cult there are rules to follow and you're usually following the leader all the time. There is no leader here nor inforcement of rules of belief. For my boyfriend, the leader make sure he lost contact with other people, made it so that only the leader had news and valuable information, kept on top of what my boyfriend was doing at all times, would manipulate him to do what he wanted, would teach him things that don't make sense to anyone else outside of the cult and would use my boyfriend to recruit more members.

Being in a cult is isolating, you're forced to believe what they want you to believe. This place is pro choice and you're free to come and go and say what you please, that's not how a cult operates. In a cult you have to say and believe what the leader wants you to say and believe and you can't leave.

 

[tsykoais]

they think we're a CULT???? lmaooo, society is really scared of seeing the true side of depression and mental illness. this is a forum that allows people to express their true feelings without being locked up in a psychiatric hospital or be told "everything's gonna be fine." everyone is here within their will and free to leave if they want to, there's even a recovery section for gods sake.

 

[UKscotty]

What about SS makes it a cult? Not many people here actually CTB. Most are just looking for like minded people to navigate life.

I'd say its the opposite and more people would CTB without SS. We don't hold information on any special methods, all information here is widely available on places like Wikipedia but no one attacks them do they?

Societies and governments are the ones go blame, they don't do anywhere close enough for suicide prevention and helping people get better. The blame should lie with all the capitalist governments who prefer the poor and disabled to CTB than help lift them up. I strongly disagree we are a cult.