Discussion Living to be, living to do

[WhirlingMind]

All my life I was always focused on what I want to be, always judged my success based on what I want to be, always motivated what I chose to do in the prospect of becoming what I want to be.

Once I realised I won't be able of doing such, I simply lost interest in life and in what it has to offer.

Ultimately, I understood that happy people are the ones who motivate themselves on the things they want to do, not be.
On experiences they want to live, on memories they want to make.

Nevertheless, I still don't get how it's possible to switch to this kind of mindset.
What causes emotional responses in me is, and always has been, what I am, not what I do. It's not the things I did or plant to do that I care about when I'm trying to sleep at night, nor when I'm trying to get up in the morning.

Does any of you recognise himself in what I wrote?
Is there anything that helped you with this?

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I see what you're saying… I can relate… I suppose if you can tap into what brings you joy… Or if you forgotten what brings you joy, try to remember what it was like when you were a child and what you might've gravitated towards… What you loved to do… That might set you on the road towards finding something meaningful… If your mind is not completely fried at this point…

 

[High on Disco]

People who focus on what/who they want to be usually have very low self-esteem. They think they are not good enough to be loved or respected and fear failure and abandonment.

 

[saninh.suk]

i can also relate. Came from asian parenting, very strict and demanding. Lots of anxiety and self-judgement. Nowadays, i feel like im too far away from what i wanted to be to live. Not really interested in what i have in my hands right now. I feel tired, unmotivated, untouched and unloved. As any suicidal, I can't see how i can fix things as they just get more and more complex.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I cant be a cis-female so i lost interest in life. Does that count?

 

[WhirlingMind]

I see what you're saying… I can relate… I suppose if you can tap into what brings you joy… Or if you forgotten what brings you joy, try to remember what it was like when you were a child and what you might've gravitated towards… What you loved to do… That might set you on the road towards finding something meaningful… If your mind is not completely fried at this point…

There are things that I like to do, the problem is that I don't feel motivated by them or emotionally moved by them when I'm not doing them. Does it apply to you too?

People who focus on what/who they want to be usually have very low self-esteem. They think they are not good enough to be loved or respected and fear failure and abandonment.

I don't think it's necessarily fear of abandonment, I don't fear to be alone, I'm just not able to enjoy existing the way I am. Actually, I tend to willingly be alone mainly to avoid thinking about my identity by having to interact with others. Do you think that we only judge ourselves by what our identity can provide us, or we can reject our identity just by matters of taste?

i can also relate. Came from asian parenting, very strict and demanding. Lots of anxiety and self-judgement. Nowadays, i feel like im too far away from what i wanted to be to live. Not really interested in what i have in my hands right now. I feel tired, unmotivated, untouched and unloved. As any suicidal, I can't see how i can fix things as they just get more and more complex.

Are you just talking about achievements or is there something else?

I cant be a cis-female so i lost interest in life. Does that count?

I would like so much to have a conversation like this with a non-suicidal transgender, I'm sure it could help much more than many specialists...

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

There are things that I like to do, the problem is that I don't feel motivated by them or emotionally moved by them when I'm not doing them. Does it apply to you too?

I had passions and interests prior to this recent mental collapse. Cooking and entertaining. Playing music with friends. Travel. Socializing.But I can't summon the motivation. Dead inside.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I would like so much to have a conversation like this with a non-suicidal transgender, I'm sure it could help much more than many specialists...

A few non suicidal transgenders have talked to me about this, but it didn't change the fact that I want to CTB. For me I am very specific about why i want to be cis-female, but the ship has sailed on that so for me there is no point in doing anything but CTB.

Everyone is different, however.

 

[saninh.suk]

Are you just talking about achievements or is there something else?

I think it's everything. I'm making the argument that foreigner-looking people can't have the same pleasures as the desire european-descendent locals.

About what you feel... Would you say that's kinda FOMO? Are you a millenial? It seems like your feelings gravitate around expectations.

I appreciate your willingness to discuss with everyone here (:

 

[Forever Sleep]

All my life I was always focused on what I want to be, always judged my success based on what I want to be, always motivated what I chose to do in the prospect of becoming what I want to be.

Once I realised I won't be able of doing such, I simply lost interest in life and in what it has to offer.

Ultimately, I understood that happy people are the ones who motivate themselves on the things they want to do, not be.
On experiences they want to live, on memories they want to make.

Nevertheless, I still don't get how it's possible to switch to this kind of mindset.
What causes emotional responses in me is, and always has been, what I am, not what I do. It's not the things I did or plant to do that I care about when I'm trying to sleep at night, nor when I'm trying to get up in the morning.

Does any of you recognise himself in what I wrote?
Is there anything that helped you with this?

Not sure if it's going to help you or even if I've understood you correctly- do you mean in terms of career- job position?

Just wanted to say that life is kind of weird. My Dad's last job position was in one of the highest regarded firms in his industry- but it turned out to be the worst firm he ever worked for...

Similarly, I became obsessed with being admitted onto a particular university course and fortunately- I was but again- It didn't end up being what I thought it would be...

Don't know if it makes that better or worse- knowing that the golden carrot we're all striving for sometimes ends up being rotten when we get there.

Think sometimes, what we think will make us happy/feel like we've 'made it' actually doesn't. Maybe whatever it was that you were striving for wouldn't have made you happy in the end.

I worked freelance for a few years after uni. It was so difficult to make ends meet, so I looked for a more permanent position. I tried two different Head of Department jobs but both were really stressful and ultimately- I wasn't doing what I wanted to be doing. So- I've gone back to freelance- lost my 'tittles'- a demotion but at least I am doing what I want now (when I can find the work- Lol).

Not that I'm saying that I ever 'made it'- it's just that I guess the jobs that I've done that were maybe higher up on the success level weren't necessarily the happiest. Still- maybe that's what you were saying- that you don't find any joy in 'doing' but just being known as the best in a particular thing?

Were the things you were aiming at not in subjects that you enjoy?

 

[Niko66]

All my life I was always focused on what I want to be, always judged my success based on what I want to be, always motivated what I chose to do in the prospect of becoming what I want to be.

Once I realised I won't be able of doing such, I simply lost interest in life and in what it has to offer.

Ultimately, I understood that happy people are the ones who motivate themselves on the things they want to do, not be.
On experiences they want to live, on memories they want to make.

Nevertheless, I still don't get how it's possible to switch to this kind of mindset.
What causes emotional responses in me is, and always has been, what I am, not what I do. It's not the things I did or plant to do that I care about when I'm trying to sleep at night, nor when I'm trying to get up in the morning.

Does any of you recognise himself in what I wrote?
Is there anything that helped you with this?

There is one thought that helps me a little bit and I keep writing it down to remind myself. Roughly: "If I am alive then I might as well try to live, that my days have intention, that every day I either choose to live and when I can't live anymore then I will choose to die"

Because I have lived too many days waiting to die, waiting for better things to come and that might as well be some kind of purgatory between life and death most certainly not worth going through.

Also a thought that I read on a self help book (I know lol) but I liked it, is that essentially over the long term we are what we do, we may like movies or reading intrinsically but what makes one a reader or a movie fan if not reading itself? watching movies... I want to be in shape but my physical issues make it difficult to work out, so I am not a fitness person as much as I would like my body to be healthy, but if I worked out every day then maybe after a year I would be able to call myself someone fit and into fitness. Motivation comes and goes, it's only through constancy that we build up our lives. My grave was dug through years and years of negative thoughts and negative life events and thus I become Niko66 the mentally ill, unstable and suicidal person, perhaps if I try long enough to put those little efforts towards what I want to be then I can one day say that I am something different, maybe not and I will fail and that's what I am trying to figure out in the time I have left in this world.

 

[WhirlingMind]

Thanks everybody for your replies, I'm replying just now due to the DNS issues.

I had passions and interests prior to this recent mental collapse. Cooking and entertaining. Playing music with friends. Travel. Socializing.But I can't summon the motivation. Dead inside.

Do you think those pleasures were tied to some overarching concept? For example, did you enjoy playing music with friends because: you had fun playing an instrument and your friends enabled you to give purpose to that OR you wanted to be with friends and play music together enabled you to do so in a way that made you be appreciated for your talents? I hope I was clear enough...

A few non suicidal transgenders have talked to me about this, but it didn't change the fact that I want to CTB. For me I am very specific about why i want to be cis-female, but the ship has sailed on that so for me there is no point in doing anything but CTB.

Everyone is different, however.

I'm aware I'm making massive simplifications here, but I'll proceed just for making my point clearer.
In this extreme example, assuming a random guy desires to be female, is that because he wants to have a 'normal' chance to get in a relationship with boys OR it's because he wants to consider himself a girl?
In the first case (wanting to DO) it may be possible for him to accept reality, in the second case (wanting to BE) not so much.

I think it's everything. I'm making the argument that foreigner-looking people can't have the same pleasures as the desire european-descendent locals.

About what you feel... Would you say that's kinda FOMO? Are you a millenial? It seems like your feelings gravitate around expectations.

I appreciate your willingness to discuss with everyone here (:

I'm assuming your argument is related to relationships and I would extend it to all bad looking people in general. Usually the narrative is that you are supposed to desire a stable relationship with one partner and and an eventual family. If your intentions in regards to your relational/sexual life are different you are basically considered wrong and ignored by society. Doing this society basically approves your CBT.
This said, I wouldn't talk about FOMO. I mean if you live to experience things, it's a lot easier to find meaning in your life. If you live to become a specific person, you may find it impossible and loose meaning in your life.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Thanks everybody for your replies, I'm replying just now due to the DNS issues.

Do you think those pleasures were tied to some overarching concept? For example, did you enjoy playing music with friends because: you had fun playing an instrument and your friends enabled you to give purpose to that OR you wanted to be with friends and play music together enabled you to do so in a way that made you be appreciated for your talents? I hope I was clear enough...

I'm aware I'm making massive simplifications here, but I'll proceed just for making my point clearer.
In this extreme example, assuming a random guy desires to be female, is that because he wants to have a 'normal' chance to get in a relationship with boys OR it's because he wants to consider himself a girl?
In the first case (wanting to DO) it may be possible for him to accept reality, in the second case (wanting to BE) not so much.

I'm assuming your argument is related to relationships and I would extend it to all bad looking people in general. Usually the narrative is that you are supposed to desire a stable relationship with one partner and and an eventual family. If your intentions in regards to your relational/sexual life are different you are basically considered wrong and ignored by society. Doing this society basically approves your CBT.
This said, I wouldn't talk about FOMO. I mean if you live to experience things, it's a lot easier to find meaning in your life. If you live to become a specific person, you may find it impossible and loose meaning in your life.

I just loved playing music and sharing food and being with my friends…

 

[saninh.suk]

mean if you live to experience things, it's a lot easier to find meaning in your life. If you live to become a specific person, you may find it impossible and loose meaning in your life.

thats surprisingly touching. thank you for that.

 

[WhirlingMind]

Not sure if it's going to help you or even if I've understood you correctly- do you mean in terms of career- job position?

Just wanted to say that life is kind of weird. My Dad's last job position was in one of the highest regarded firms in his industry- but it turned out to be the worst firm he ever worked for...

Similarly, I became obsessed with being admitted onto a particular university course and fortunately- I was but again- It didn't end up being what I thought it would be...

Don't know if it makes that better or worse- knowing that the golden carrot we're all striving for sometimes ends up being rotten when we get there.

Think sometimes, what we think will make us happy/feel like we've 'made it' actually doesn't. Maybe whatever it was that you were striving for wouldn't have made you happy in the end.

I worked freelance for a few years after uni. It was so difficult to make ends meet, so I looked for a more permanent position. I tried two different Head of Department jobs but both were really stressful and ultimately- I wasn't doing what I wanted to be doing. So- I've gone back to freelance- lost my 'tittles'- a demotion but at least I am doing what I want now (when I can find the work- Lol).

Not that I'm saying that I ever 'made it'- it's just that I guess the jobs that I've done that were maybe higher up on the success level weren't necessarily the happiest. Still- maybe that's what you were saying- that you don't find any joy in 'doing' but just being known as the best in a particular thing?

Were the things you were aiming at not in subjects that you enjoy?

You touched a very important point. If "living to be" was always confined to things like job and position in society it would be so easier for anybody to find aim and motivation. The problem is that in many cases the main factors are not jobs and titles but mostly origin, looks, physical characteristics, talents and other features that you have no control over.
In this cases you are not able to just "work harder" on your issues in order to fix them. However, you can surely put more emotional effort in overriding your SI and solve the problem by separating your consciousness from your identity (which is achieved through suicide).
That's why when the problem is what you are and not what you do, the easiest solution is to just put an end to your current identity. Other ways of improving your condition are simply not as cost-effective. You can surely work on increasing your self-esteem, but most of the time it requires less effort to override your survival instinct, and the latter is a totally reliable solution. That's why even if there are options to keep living and improve your condition, it simply doesn't make sense to chose them above cbt.