Method Liquid Nitrogen and Car

[jules18]

So I've been thinking, since a few of us are waiting on updates on the Sarco machine, why not try liquid nitrogen in a car.

I imagine it wouldn't be that much different from a Sarco in terms of making sure air doesn't escape, comfort, and so on. Could pouring liquid nitrogen in a bucket inside a car be essentially the same as using a Sarco machine? could this work?

How much liquid nitrogen would one need for this method?

A few posts from the Sarco thread that are relevant here:

Yup, no comparison with N.

I asked Philip once this question;

Dear Philip,
I'm all for Nitrogen but not with an exit-bag. So I would like to hear options of using Nitrogen in another setting.
Like: filling up a small space (like a tent or small bathroom) with Nitrogen in which you then temporarily reside with an oxygen-mask until the level of Nitrogen is high enough to put the mask off. I guess you'll then need a measuring tool and more than 1 nitrogen cylinder.
I truly hope you will address this.
Thank you and best regards,

And lo and behold, I got an answer back from the man himself;

Op 20-1-2018 om 09:20 schreef Exit International:

Possible, but the oxygen has to be removed eg by flushing, and for even a small volume room/ tent a large amount of gas is needed. Hence the Sarco that uses liquid nitrogen as the source

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

At the time the existence of both gas and liquide was an eye-opener.

I assume, the liquid Nitro will immediately evaporate into a BIG gas cloud the moment you press that button inside the Sarco (correct me if I'm wrong).

@ here a wiki link about liquid nitro; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_nitrogen

Yup, you're correct. I recently read of some idiot pouring liquid N2 into a swimming pool at a party, as a joke. The N2 cloud that formed on the water put two of the swimmers on the bus earlier than they might have chosen.

Would a plastic bucket be resistant enough to liquid nitrogen? how fast would it evaporate or create the gas cloud?

@Idorus what do you think?

Clinical and morphological aspects of death due to liquid nitrogen - PubMed

A 24-year-old student died while filling flasks with liquid nitrogen. The arms, legs and back were frozen and the face, ears and neck showed a dark red and livid colour with horizontal lines of demarcation. In the electrocardiogram, the heart showed asystolia followed by wide ventricular...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Clinical and morphological aspects of death due to liquid nitrogen.
Abstract
A 24-year-old student died while filling flasks with liquid nitrogen. The arms, legs and back were frozen and the face, ears and neck showed a dark red and livid colour with horizontal lines of demarcation. In the electrocardiogram, the heart showed asystolia followed by wide ventricular complexes. The patient was intubated orally as the situs of the larynx and pharynx showed no pathology findings. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation was carried out and terminated after 90 min. Unfortunately, the body temperature was not measured. The gas analysis of venous blood showed metabolic acidosis and oxygen deficiency. The student had worked alone with nitrogen, without opening the windows and without a working ventilation system. While filling the third flask he lost consciousness. As nitrogen does not cause characteristic prodromal signs he laid on the floor and was unable to help himself. The liquid nitrogen which was still escaping spread over the floor and vaporized. The student died from asphyxia due to oxygen deficiency in an atmosphere of nitrogen.

 

[Viden]

I like the prospect of this method. I hope it gets more views and comments.

 

[Jen Erik]

>>I recently read of some idiot pouring liquid N2 into a swimming pool at a party, as a joke. The N2 cloud that formed on the water put two of the swimmers on the bus earlier than they might have chosen.

I don't think this is the same thing TiredHorse referred to but it's similar: http://blog.chembark.com/2013/06/18/awful-idea-liquid-nitrogen-at-a-pool-party/

Would it be possible to do the same in a bathtub?

 

[Viden]

How easy is it to buy liquid nitrogen? This seems like an awesome method. But wouldn't the car be better since its in a confined space and sealed? One could pour the liquid N2 into a bucket of water in their car.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Liquid nitrogen expands over 600 times its size when changing to a gas. The end result...kaboom! Please do some research before choosing a method. Thank you.

How easy is it to buy liquid nitrogen? This seems like an awesome method. But wouldn't the car be better since its in a confined space and sealed? One could pour the liquid N2 into a bucket of water in their car.

Nitrogen is a high pressure gas. Even the dewars used for Liq. nitrogen release a small percentage of gas all the time.

So I've been thinking, since a few of us are waiting on updates on the Sarco machine, why not try liquid nitrogen in a car.

I imagine it wouldn't be that much different from a Sarco in terms of making sure air doesn't escape, comfort, and so on. Could pouring liquid nitrogen in a bucket inside a car be essentially the same as using a Sarco machine? could this work?

How much liquid nitrogen would one need for this method?

A few posts from the Sarco thread that are relevant here:






Would a plastic bucket be resistant enough to liquid nitrogen? how fast would it evaporate or create the gas cloud?

@Idorus what do you think?

A sealed car would explode. Expansion rate is the issue in using this method.
Please note: Liquid nitrogen cannot be stored for long. The containers are designed for off-gassing, and lose approximately 2%/day of nitrogen gas.
Rapid expansion of the liquid to a gas causes serious explosions when in a confined space.
The vapour is very cold and the new-formed gas gathers in low areas and forms a visible cloud.
Plastics can generally handle the liquid, at least for short periods of time.
Liquid nitrogen is still easy to get, but given the 'sarco' I am sure the laws will soon change. Think SN.

I have been studying this topic for several months now...smile. Viable? I still have to figure out volumetric measures, and the possibility of this method working for someone with severe lung issues...sigh. Please make sure you know your stuff before recommending anything to anyone...I always do...wink.
I have a multitude of questions re. 'sarco' and if anyone knows how to get the 3d plans I would greatly appreciate it...thanks guys.

 

[jimjoe123]

poof,
Thanks for your reply. "A sealed car would explode. Expansion rate is the issue in using this method. " Never thought about expansion.
I wonder how Sarco handles expansion question? I don't think there's anyways to regulate liquid to gas expansion (??)

I was gonna ask about using liquid nitrogen in confined space like tent, but not gonna work.

Then only viable option is back to original, that is nitrogen tank, flow regulator, confined space like face mask or turkey ziplock bag, etc..

 

[Deleted member 1768]

poof,
Thanks for your reply. "A sealed car would explode. Expansion rate is the issue in using this method. " Never thought about expansion.
I wonder how Sarco handles expansion question? I don't think there's anyways to regulate liquid to gas expansion (??)

I was gonna ask about using liquid nitrogen in confined space like tent, but not gonna work.

Then only viable option is back to original, that is nitrogen tank, flow regulator, confined space like face mask or turkey ziplock bag, etc..

A desiccant is utilized in a special filter that is attached to the 'generator' within the sarco. This eliminates the fog, and warns things up. A flow meter, I suspect, is also used and there should be vents to allow the excess gas to dissipate. The only way to answer questions about the 'generator' (Nie. term) is to obtain the blueprints of the sarco.

 

[jimjoe123]

poof:
You wrote "I have been studying this topic for several months now...smile. Viable? I still have to figure out volumetric measures, and the possibility of this method working for someone with severe lung issues...sigh. Please make sure you know your stuff before recommending anything to anyone...I always do...wink.
I have a multitude of questions re. 'sarco' and if anyone knows how to get the 3d plans I would greatly appreciate it...thanks guys."

Sometimes I wonder what is real motive of Dr. Philip Nitschke (EXIT). We met him in California few years ago in a workshop, not impressed at all, Seem to be in so hurry, impatient to answer any questions in detail, very defensive, etc..

So his latest is Sarco, If he can't get people using the old turkey ziplock EXIT bag with helium or nitrogen gas then how's he gonna convince people to pay for and use Sarco. It's not simple as printing 3D. as you stated, it take much more equipment.

I thought people would jump at Mad Dog brewery nitrogen tank but haven't heard too many people using it to die. As this forum shows, people still talking about hanging, guns, drowning, nembutal, etc....

So I've been thinking, since a few of us are waiting on updates on the Sarco machine, why not try liquid nitrogen in a car.

Just curious, why not use turkey ziplock bag (EXIT bag) with helium or nitrogen tank? Any problems or concerns you have? I would love to hear in detail.
I know some mentioned plastic hood covering head/face was scary, but face mask or small tent used for oxygen tent (covering upper body) can be used (I assume),

Personally I like A German diver death, Face mask, lying in bed,
Why search for other methods?

 

[jimjoe123]

poof:
ok, "A sealed car would explode. Expansion rate is the issue in using this method. "
How about a small room? or closet? solid walls so nothing to expand and explode.
It will like industrial N2 death where worker enters N2 filled space unknowingly then passes out,

The question will be how much liquid N2 is needed to fill a room? at 500-700:1 ratio how long to leave open liquid N2.
Can you do the calculation?