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schopenh

schopenh

Specialist
Oct 21, 2019
385
The sample size is so small. Basically 31 people in each of the four groups.

> symptoms alleviated in six who took fluoxetene and had sham light therapy, and nine who had only placebo treatments.
So fluoxetine is worse than a placebo?

> 17 of those who had both light therapy and fluoxetine, 14 of those who had light therapy and took placebo pills
But fluoxetine improved the outcome of light therapy?

This is on Harvard's medical school's own website and there's no simple way at getting to the original article. That's horrendous. Nonetheless a simple (unnecessary) google found it.

First of all, this is a study on people with a mental health diagnosis, so a subjective diagnosis maybe involving completing a questionnaire to get a diagnosis.

selection criteria:
> were psychotropic medication free for at least 2 weeks prior to the baseline visit
Not good enough. It takes a long time for the effects of psychotropic (and other) medications to stop
> Patients were excluded for seasonal pattern, bipolar and psychotic disorders, substance abuse or dependence within the past year, or serious suicidal risk as judged by the clinician. Patients were also excluded if they had unstable medical illnesses, had retinal disease, were pregnant or breastfeeding, or had previously used fluoxetine or light therapy. Patients were also excluded for treatment resistance during the current episode (lack of response to ≥2 antidepressants at therapeutic doses for >6 weeks) or for using other concurrent treatments for depression, including psychotherapy.

Seems like they basically excluded any and all people who were guaranteed to show this stuff was ineffective !

> Patients used the light box at home and were given standardized verbal and written instructions.
Reliance on patient compliance which could vary significantly between such small groups (people would be far less likely to adhere to a non-pharmacological treatment)

I got bored reading the paper. But have a look at the absolute size of the conflicts of interest paragraph:

Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Lam reported receiving research funds from Brain Canada, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, Canadian Network for Mood and Anxiety Treatments, Coast Capital Savings, Lundbeck, Pfizer, St Jude Medical, University Health Network Foundation, and Vancouver Coastal Health Research Institute; serving as a consultant to and/or receiving speaker honoraria from AstraZeneca, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Canadian Psychiatric Association, Canadian Network for Mood and Anxiety Treatments, Eli Lilly and Co, Johnson and Johnson, Lundbeck, Lundbeck Institute, Mochida, Otsuka, Pfizer, Servier, and Takeda; receiving royalties from Cambridge University Press, Informa Press, and Oxford University Press; and holding a copyright on the Lam Employment Absence and Productivity Scale (LEAPS). Dr Levitt reported receiving unrestricted salary support from Eli Lilly Canada Inc. Dr Michalak reported receiving consulting honoraria from Lundbeck. Dr Ramasubbu reported receiving research grants from AstraZeneca. Dr Yatham reported serving as an advisory board member for and receiving honoraria and grants or research support from AstraZeneca, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Eli Lilly and Co, GlaxoSmithKline, Johnson and Johnson, Novartis, Pfizer, Abbott, Servier, and Wyeth; serving as an advisory board member for Forest; and receiving grants or research support from the Stanley Foundation, National Alliance for Research on Schizophrenia and Depression, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, and Canadian Psychiatric Foundation. No other disclosures were reported.


I'd nearly say they're looking to create some evidence for light boxes which can then be manufactured and sold, but what do I know

(Edit: and the study length was two months, which is a blip for major depression)
 
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L

LittleJem

Visionary
Jul 3, 2019
2,444
I hear you, but none of those drug companies make light boxes that I know of - I'm in favour of them funding research into anything that augments treatment.

I'll see if I can find any other research!
Here's some more research - debunk if you would like to - but there are more research reports out there: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/light-treatment-nonseasonal-depression
There's a caution in the article re light therapy and bipolar:


If the physician has a patient who may be bipolar, Kripke said it might be safer to use evening light, because the risk of mania appears to be less with evening rather than morning light. "I don't recommend using bright light for depressed bipolar patients unless they are receiving a mood stabilizer, because in 1% or 2% of cases, bright light will trigger serious mania in a bipolar patient," he noted. "The duration of bright light treatment in a depressed bipolar patient must be individualized."

While I hate Amazon - and it won't let me post the link here, there are 256 5*reviews on Amazon for VitaminL light by Lumie - including people saying it has helped depression and also panic attacks.

I'm not selling them - I just have had another bad day, and looking for anything that will help
 
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Chupacabra 44

Chupacabra 44

If boredom were a CTB method, I would be long gone
Sep 13, 2020
710
I hear you, but none of those drug companies make light boxes that I know of - I'm in favour of them funding research into anything that augments treatment.

I'll see if I can find any other research!
Here's some more research - debunk if you would like to - but there are more research reports out there: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/light-treatment-nonseasonal-depression
There's a caution in the article re light therapy and bipolar:


If the physician has a patient who may be bipolar, Kripke said it might be safer to use evening light, because the risk of mania appears to be less with evening rather than morning light. "I don't recommend using bright light for depressed bipolar patients unless they are receiving a mood stabilizer, because in 1% or 2% of cases, bright light will trigger serious mania in a bipolar patient," he noted. "The duration of bright light treatment in a depressed bipolar patient must be individualized."

While I hate Amazon - and it won't let me post the link here, there are 256 5*reviews on Amazon for VitaminL light by Lumie - including people saying it has helped depression and also panic attacks.

I'm not selling them - I just have had another bad day, and looking for anything that will help




Did you end up doing this? What were the results, if you did?

If you didn't do this was there something you saw in the research that persuaded you against it?
 
P

Peter_pan90

Member
Sep 17, 2020
42
That`s why docs always ask her to go out and get some air! Guess sunlight is good to lift the mood. Me I just prefer darker days.
 
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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,921
Being inside all the time is bad for your health, no question in my mind. You need natural light. Many people suffer from vitamin D deficiency and poor immune system regulation, as well as messed up day/night cycles and the insomnia and depression that goes with that. @Quarky00 did an excellent piece on this (full of the usual charts and tables) that I might try and dig out.
Whether or not light boxes work or are a gimic...dunno. I have one given to me as a gift for the winter. It's like having bloody aircraft light on you! I'd still rather be outside.

NB. Quarky's guide
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ircadian-clock-and-seasonal-adaptation.38634/
 
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Mm80

Mm80

Enlightened
May 15, 2019
1,604
Being inside all the time is bad for your health, no question in my mind. You need natural light. Many people suffer from vitamin D deficiency and poor immune system regulation, as well as messed up day/night cycles and the insomnia and depression that goes with that. @Quarky00 did an excellent piece on this (full of the usual charts and tables) that I might try and dig out.
Whether or not light boxes work or are a gimic...dunno. I have one given to me as a gift for the winter. It's like having bloody aircraft light on you! I'd still rather be outside.

NB. Quarky's guide
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ircadian-clock-and-seasonal-adaptation.38634/
I miss quarky x
 
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L

LittleJem

Visionary
Jul 3, 2019
2,444
Did you end up doing this? What were the results, if you did?

If you didn't do this was there something you saw in the research that persuaded you against it?

I haven't tried it yet, as I think I need a daylight lamp. Maybe I should stay up all night - my depression is getting worse again. It would be nice to see if it helps. Also, I am the most functional I've been all day! Let me look into the lamp...
 
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