Life is Work

[ScroogeMcDeath]

I don't really understand this concept of "work". When I say work, I don't just mean having a job. I mean brushing your teeth. Preparing meals. Eating said meals. Showering. Getting out of bed. Etc. "Work" is a fundamental element of the human experience. You have to do some kind of work, every day, for the rest of your life.

This concept has always baffled me. People say "life is a gift", but I don't recall ever giving or receiving a gift that demanded daily engagement. Daily effort. What kind of gift is that? No gift at all if you ask me. I prefer to call it an obligation. Or a burden. Schopenheaur has called it "a task to be done", which I think is apt. I don't think it's a gift... It didn't exactly come with a receipt. And I can't forget about it for even a second as long as it's in my possession. What kind of gift consumes the person to the point where the person becomes the gift? The person is nothing without the gift. The person literally ceases to exist without the gift.

I don't know what I'm getting at here. It's probably been talked about before. But this idea that I'm supposed to do this for decades AND be grateful for it is just ridiculous. I don't like it here. I don't like this experience. I AM lazy. I DONT want to do anything. And? I didn't ask to be here, now I am saddled with a lifetime of tasks and obligations. And I should be grateful for this when the alternative is non-existence (the absence of any obligation whatsoever). This is bananas.

I would have never consciously choose this. I never asked for this. And I don't want it. Where's the receipt?

 

[sserafim]

I hate this as well. I hate how life is work and how it takes so much effort. Life is full of responsibilities, demands and obligations that I never even wanted in the first place. The worst thing about all of this is that I was brought into existence against my will. I didn't even have a choice in it. This is why procreation is selfish and immoral. You're choosing to bring another person into existence who can't even consent or agree to it. Life is a "gift" that you were given against your will and can't return. Life for me is a sunk cost fallacy. I gain nothing out of it, and yet it demands so much from me. I'm planning to ctb before 25, and I hate how you're expected to live out a full life. I can't imagine having to do this for the rest of my life. 23 years is more than enough for me. Life is just pointless and meaningless to me. I don't see what you get or achieve out of experiencing life. The experience is just not worth it for me. If I had a choice, I would never have chosen to be born at all

 

[Christopher Reeve]

I hate this as well. I hate how life is work and how it takes so much effort. Life is full of responsibilities, demands and obligations that I never even wanted in the first place. The worst thing about all of this is that I was brought into existence against my will. I didn't even have a choice in it. This is why procreation is selfish and immoral. You're choosing to bring another person into existence who can't even consent or agree to it. Life is a "gift" that you were given against your will and can't return. Life for me is a sunk cost fallacy. I gain nothing out of it, and yet it demands so much from me. I'm planning to ctb before 25, and I hate how you're expected to live out a full life. I can't imagine having to do this for the rest of my life. 23 years is more than enough for me. Life is just pointless and meaningless to me. I don't see what you get or achieve out of experiencing life. The experience is just not worth it for me. If I had a choice, I would never have chosen to be born at all

Even the Bible itself has a pessimistic view of life and is somewhat anti-natalist:

And I declared that the dead,
who had already died,
are happier than the living,
who are still alive.
3 But better than both
is the one who has never been born,
who has not seen the evil
that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 4:2-3

 

[Namarupa]

Pavese titled his diaries as "Il mestiere di vivere", roughly translated to English as "The Business of Living". I think it's very poignant lol.

 

[ScroogeMcDeath]

I hate this as well. I hate how life is work and how it takes so much effort. Life is full of responsibilities, demands and obligations that I never even wanted in the first place. The worst thing about all of this is that I was brought into existence against my will. I didn't even have a choice in it. This is why procreation is selfish and immoral. You're choosing to bring another person into existence who can't even consent or agree to it. Life is a "gift" that you were given against your will and can't return. Life for me is a sunk cost fallacy. I gain nothing out of it, and yet it demands so much from me. I'm planning to ctb before 25, and I hate how you're expected to live out a full life. I can't imagine having to do this for the rest of my life. 23 years is more than enough for me. Life is just pointless and meaningless to me. I don't see what you get or achieve out of experiencing life. The experience is just not worth it for me. If I had a choice, I would never have chosen to be born at all

I'm an antinatalist as well, for this exact reason. Forcing someone to exist would be the most selfish thing I could ever do and I don't want to do it.

 

[BardBarrie]

It's understandable for one to be apathetic towards an existence they didn't consent to nor wish to be part of.

 

[qsocdu]

This is bothering me too much as well. I don't know how people can function properly, I fucking hate having to go after food and go to the bathroom everyday

 

[yeh it's all gucci]

I think for some people, probably non suicidal types, that they see the chores of daily life worth it for the joy they receive in return, such as the love of family and friends, the beauty in nature, the happiness they experience etc.
They endure life to be rewarded by the things they love, and whilst those things aren't always present, when they are it makes the downsides worth it.

 

[ScroogeMcDeath]

I think for some people, probably non suicidal types, that they see the chores of daily life worth it for the joy they receive in return, such as the love of family and friends, the beauty in nature, the happiness they experience etc.
They endure life to be rewarded by the things they love, and whilst those things aren't always present, when they are it makes the downsides worth it.

I don't know what kind of life a person would need to have for this to be the case, I've yet experienced anything that's made me want to stick around. Really low lows and insufficient highs. I could imagine if the highs were comparable to the lows, I could see how that would be motivation to do the things.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I completely agree. Life feels more like an affliction or curse rather than a gift. It's effectively a series of problems that we will have to solve at least in some part on our own. Where our choices are limited and the consequences of making the wrong choice- even over something basic can be terrible. For instance, you can choose not to brush your teeth but it increases the chances of tooth decay, abscesses etc. I think over a lot of things, it feels like we have no choice at all because the consequences for making some choices are so bad. In many respects, I see it as going for the lesser of the evils most of the time.

I think in many cases, our lives were gifts that our parents decided to get for themselves. They wanted to experience that love and connection. I wonder if they even thought through how we might end up feeling about it.

Also, consider what happens when you try to return that 'gift'. At best, everyone will call you selfish for hurting their feelings. But- let's compare it to returning something in a shop:

- 'Hi- I'd like to return this please because it has caused me physical, psychological and emotional harm.'

- 'We're sorry but that item is non returnable. We can offer you some antidepressants.'

- 'No thank you.'

- 'Then, we'll have to insist you accompany these people to a psyche ward where you'll forcibly be given them. Or- you can take your faulty product home, stop whinging about it and just put up with it. Please remember to leave us a 5 star review in this short survey.'

Seems kind of strange that people seem happy for us to keep something that causes us harm. They may of course hope that things get better. That we learn to like it. But, when the chips are down, I suspect they'd ultimately prefer us to be unhappy but alive.

 

[ScroogeMcDeath]

I completely agree. Life feels more like an affliction or curse rather than a gift. It's effectively a series of problems that we will have to solve at least in some part on our own. Where our choices are limited and the consequences of making the wrong choice- even over something basic can be terrible. For instance, you can choose not to brush your teeth but it increases the chances of tooth decay, abscesses etc. I think over a lot of things, it feels like we have no choice at all because the consequences for making some choices are so bad. In many respects, I see it as going for the lesser of the evils most of the time.

I think in many cases, our lives were gifts that our parents decided to get for themselves. They wanted to experience that love and connection. I wonder if they even thought through how we might end up feeling about it.

Also, consider what happens when you try to return that 'gift'. At best, everyone will call you selfish for hurting their feelings. But- let's compare it to returning something in a shop:

- 'Hi- I'd like to return this please because it has caused me physical, psychological and emotional harm.'

- 'We're sorry but that item is non returnable. We can offer you some antidepressants.'

- 'No thank you.'

- 'Then, we'll have to insist you accompany these people to a psyche ward where you'll forcibly be given them. Or- you can take your faulty product home, stop whinging about it and just put up with it. Please remember to leave us a 5 star review in this short survey.'

Seems kind of strange that people seem happy for us to keep something that causes us harm. They may of course hope that things get better. That we learn to like it. But, when the chips are down, I suspect they'd ultimately prefer us to be unhappy but alive.

Very good analogy! And people would absolutely prefer you to be unhappy but alive. It's like crabs in a barrel. They're here, they have to do x, y, and z, so you should be here doing it too. Bad stuff happens to them, why shouldn't it happen to you? Death is scary, don't do that, it'll make em sad. Poor babies. Don't wanna hurt their feelings. Much better to just endure cataclysmic stagnation and suffering so people don't have to be reminded that one day they too will be separated from their prized possession. They don't want to die, and they project it onto you. Surely you WANT to be here, right? Doesn't everybody? No? Oh well it must just be something wrong with the people who don't. Give em some meds and take away their pointy things so they can't get out. The beatings will continue until will to live improves.

It's like a prison. You can't get out. You gotta serve your time. And if you kill yourself to be free from the madhouse, you're a "coward". By the same token, if you stay and don't gather enough commissary or become a shotcaller, you're a "loser". You gotta put that work in, accumulate the things and the stuff. Then you'll be accepted. Because you "earned it".

Completely bonkers.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I don't really understand this concept of "work". When I say work, I don't just mean having a job. I mean brushing your teeth. Preparing meals. Eating said meals. Showering. Getting out of bed. Etc. "Work" is a fundamental element of the human experience. You have to do some kind of work, every day, for the rest of your life.

I think you mix up things here. In our society which we humans created for us and which is also artificial we have to work to earn money in particular - money for everything - to be able to live. Often that is not a life bc we'd need more money to have a life which we cannot earn easily => frustration.

What you refer to is kinda "natural work" we do only for ourselves. All animals are doing the same things! Nature would provide everything we need to live for free! Yes we would have to put work into finding our food (animals are doing the same every day!), finding our material for a basic housing and so on. Nature provides everything for all creature for free.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree. This is a well made post. Life truly is work and, in my case, there's nothing more to it than that as I don't really feel any pleasures from anything. All I'm doing is suffering and that's it. Just working and suffering without any pleasures to counteract the suffering. Life is so miserable for me and it would have been far better if I wasn't born

 

[lita-lassi]

we very quickly went from "at risk of dying every hour every day from elements, enemies and accidents (like lack of sanitation or medical knowledge)" and having to work CONSTANTLY just to get the absolute survival basics, to "any food i could possibly want is at the store right down the street, i can order it to be delivered to my weather-resistant cocoon, all the knowledge of the collective species is in my pocket and i can talk to anyone/travel to anywhere if have a few resources. fuck me this is hard". we're still physiologically hard-wired to work for survival like every other propogating species, we just have the curse of a big enough brain that lets us analyze this shit and many of us will never be satisfied no matter what. theres several theories about how we weren't MEANT to get complacent or completely safe from a biological/anthropological standing. complacency and lack of any real survival cycle in many species/areas is associated with overall degradation of the ecosystem. meaning is a jumper one must knit themselves

edit: im not saying we shouldnt advance or feel safe as a species, just that there are correlations between lack of survival motive and how we feel about said motive

 

[Little_Suzy]

"You did not ask to be here, and no one is forcing you to be here!"

This is why suicide (early death vs. natural death) is always an option, and SaSu exists to keep us all informed via a research platform.

Personally, I am happy to be here. I didn't ask for an illness that prevents me from enjoying life, so I'm coping while I consider my options. My heart's desire is to be liberated from the grips of depression and anhedonia.

 

[Darkover]

"You did not ask to be here, and no one is forcing you to be here!"

psych wards force people against their will to stay alive

 

[sserafim]

"You did not ask to be here, and no one is forcing you to be here!"

This is why suicide (early death vs. natural death) is always an option, and SaSu exists to keep us all informed via a research platform.

Personally, I am happy to be here. I didn't ask for an illness that prevents me from enjoying life, so I'm coping while I consider my options. My heart's desire is to be liberated from the grips of depression and anhedonia.

View attachment 134002

To be or not to be. That is the question

 

[Christopher Reeve]

the work and reward are very disproportionate, a wound can be caused in less than 1 second, but the healing process of that wound can take years and may never heal completely, and also in that time our consciousness will be feeling the pain.
And the pleasures? You can eat a sweet, but soon it will become saturated in your mouth, just like any type of pleasure, it will reach a limit that will become painful. Pleasure is the carrot in front of the donkey that makes us continue to want to live.

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand, more than anything I certainly wish I never existed. Human existence is such a futile, dreadful imposistion that can potentially get so torturous beyond how one can even imagine. I don't see any value in existing as a conscious being enslaved in a decaying flesh prison, in my case I simply wish to be permanently unaware, I don't want to experience anything ever again, it's tiring to me simply being conscious and aware.

To me existence is just slavery and imprisonment, it disgusts me how humans actually choose to impose it, all they are doing is creating meaningless suffering, pain, problems and needs that were all completely unnecessary in the first place.