Venting Life is punishment. If you bring another person to this hell you have no heart or no brain or nither.

[davidtorez]

Your statement is clearly and utterly false.

The world is not getting any worse because people are not having kids. That's just fallacious pronatalist/eugenistic/racist propaganda from the likes of Elon Musk — which, by the way, blameshifts and scapegoats antinatalists as a menace to the world. Unfortunately, humanity won't go extinct anytime soon and it certainly won't happen due to antinatalism. Excuse my French, but saying that is bullshit.

Let's get real, shall we?

Most people don't give a rat's ass about philosophy and ethical concerns.

The truth is: it doesn't really matter if they are pro-lifers or nay-lifers. At the end of the day, people are having fewer children because "the world" — i.e., quality of life — has been clearly getting worse since the 1960s. The world economy has gotten worse; social inequality has grown rampant, despite the fact that, yes, fewer people today live in totally miserable conditions; the filthy rich have never been so filthy rich; the resulting environmental issues caused by human activity are distinctly getting worse at a pace humanity can't fix; there's political turmoil everywhere, and there's the possibility of a third — nuclear! — world war; etc., etc., etc.

The real and underlying reasons people are not having kids as they used to are: (1) people are generally more educated than in previous epochs; and (2) they realize life is much harder than before and just accept that they can't afford to have kids. Only some of them care about the precariousness of this decadent world, where their kids will grow up and live in, and conclude that it would be unfair to bring them into it.

Having kids is just something people can't afford anymore because it's a great unnecessary financial burden... Only filthy rich, self-centered douchebags like Elon Musk can't comprehend that.

---

Exactly.

And they only care about its birth because they assume the birthed creature will be a cuddly, fluffly teddy bear like this one:

View attachment 145320

And not like this one:

View attachment 145321

Because if It turns out that the creature has developed into the latter, they will soon enough rather have it jailed and executed in the electric chair.

"We are Pro-life, because life is a gift from God" ... Pro-lifers my ass. You are pro-suffering, torture and sadism.

And if life is a gift you should be able to give it away easily , otherwise it's no longer a gift but a burden !

 

[thewalkingdread]

And if life is a gift you should be able to give it away easily , otherwise it's no longer a gift but a burden !

"Life is Punishment" — Fyodor Dostoevsky. #pun

 

[Beyond_Repair]

In china the youths have embraced "bai lan" (let it rot ) and lie flat movement . It's basically mean to Work minimumly to survive and be lazy , no children . So yeah . It's already shit anyway , why not find some happiness in the chaos?

I love this sentiment. I have been embracing "bai lan" without knowing it

 

[Ligottian]

I'm a male with no children who onced talked to a twice divorced male friend who had no children. He said "Why create another victim?".

 

[Chinaski]

This is a real hell thread of juvenilia

 

[thewalkingdread]

This is a real hell thread of juvenilia

Calling others childish in a debate is, in itself, a childish attitude and constitutes an ad hominem attack.

This behavior diverts the focus from the arguments and directs attention to the opponent's personal characteristics, which does not contribute to a constructive debate.

Besides being a logical fallacy, it can be seen as ageism/adultism, where maturity is used as a measure of the arguments' validity, which is problematic.

This stance reflects a lack of emotional and intellectual maturity, similar to the common behavior among children who use their age to feel superior.

Instead of engaging in a constructive and respectful manner, a person resorting to this type of attack demonstrates an inability to deal with opposing arguments rationally and balanced, weakening their position and diminishing the quality of the discussion.

Therefore, a healthy debate should focus on arguments and evidence, avoiding personal disqualifications to maintain the quality of the dialogue.

 

[Beyond_Repair]

Calling others childish in a debate is, in itself, a childish attitude and constitutes an ad hominem attack.

This behavior diverts the focus from the arguments and directs attention to the opponent's personal characteristics, which does not contribute to a constructive debate.

Besides being a logical fallacy, it can be seen as ageism/adultism, where maturity is used as a measure of the arguments' validity, which is problematic.

This stance reflects a lack of emotional and intellectual maturity, similar to the common behavior among children who use their age to feel superior.

Instead of engaging in a constructive and respectful manner, a person resorting to this type of attack demonstrates an inability to deal with opposing arguments rationally and balanced, weakening their position and diminishing the quality of the discussion.

Therefore, a healthy debate should focus on arguments and evidence, avoiding personal disqualifications to maintain the quality of the dialogue.

Agreed. It's to display a (false) sense of superiority when they don't have a genuine argument

 

[landslide2]

If someone can commit to properly caring for their children (an impossibility, to be sure), then I think all human life should be cherished.

I would argue that where we are failing as a species and society is in raising our young true to both our instinct as well as to the times. Education and social welfare programs, at least in the US, are not what they should be in many states. Poverty and homelessness continue to worsen, and the economy and the government continue to favor the ultra wealthy.

I think it's an obligation for every wealthy, well educated family to bring as many children into the world as possible. For those who do not have the resources, then yes I agree it's irresponsible.

Well that sounds a lot like fascism, no thank you. Cherishing only "wealthy, well educated" life, sounds pretty damn gross to me. But you are right in that education, human infrastructure if you will, has never been a priority in highly zero-sum capitalist countries. Just like physical infrastructure in the US, roads, clean water, etc...

 

[thewalkingdread]

Agreed. It's to display a (false) sense of superiority when they don't have a genuine argument

You are so sensible, adult and mature!

Will you adopt me? Will you be my dad? Please?

I'm childish and I need a daddy!

 

[Moniker]

I personally never understood the appeal to having your own kid. Just adopt one if you want a child so badly.

Also, there is something sincerely disturbing to me about this notion that a woman is obligated to pump out as many babies as possible because she has the means to support them.

 

[Chinaski]

Calling others childish in a debate is, in itself, a childish attitude and constitutes an ad hominem attack.

This behavior diverts the focus from the arguments and directs attention to the opponent's personal characteristics, which does not contribute to a constructive debate.

Besides being a logical fallacy, it can be seen as ageism/adultism, where maturity is used as a measure of the arguments' validity, which is problematic.

This stance reflects a lack of emotional and intellectual maturity, similar to the common behavior among children who use their age to feel superior.

Instead of engaging in a constructive and respectful manner, a person resorting to this type of attack demonstrates an inability to deal with opposing arguments rationally and balanced, weakening their position and diminishing the quality of the discussion.

Therefore, a healthy debate should focus on arguments and evidence, avoiding personal disqualifications to maintain the quality of the dialogue.

This is not a debate is it, it's just another raft of condemnatory froth where people are condemned as evildoers because they have children, it's unserious crap and juvenile by definition when you consider that most people on here who have reached adulthood will have known, and liked, people who have raised families.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Exactly!! Life is shit and this is a world where we shouldn't bring children into. Those children would just live miserable lives and wage slave. It's better to have never been born

 

[Chinaski]

Exactly!! Life is shit and this is a world where we shouldn't bring children into. Those children would just live miserable lives and wage slave. It's better to have never been born

This stuff needs its own subforum at this stage imo

 

[Tesha]

directs attention to the opponent's personal characteristics

I'm sorry, but that's exactly what this whole 'debate' has been about and always is. It is a never ending attack on someone's choice to have children. The 'facts' are often put across as an absolute, when they're not (for example, the last time I checked I had a brain, a heart and kids…so it's possible).

I had chosen to not post on this thread over the past few days, because my thoughts were very similar to @Chinaski.

What normally happens is a comment is made that disagrees with the nihilistic / anti-procreation approach and then there is group attack belittling that individual for daring to speak out, effectively calling them stupid, inconsiderate etc.

Oh wait… that's exactly what's already been happening in this thread, except you're bouncing off each other rather than attacking someone specific.

Just so you know, I am writing this comment and probably won't be back on SaSu for the entire day - because I'm taking my kids out, so they can enjoy themselves.

I 'look forward' to reading any responses once I've put my kids safely to bed.

 

[Proteus]

This stuff needs its own subforum at this stage imo

Seconding this suggestion.

I have nothing against unpopular views as long as they are well argued, but this threads easily turn into circle-jerks where everyone repeats the same things. We have weekly (at the very least) threads of the same nature saying the same, almost word by word. We knew this 50 threads ago.

IMO, posts like this flood the suicide discussion, make people feel worse than it is, and goes against the idea of an inclusive space this forum is meant to be. We have a doomer chat, right? Surely this is better fit in a similar sub-forum.

 

[Chinaski]

Just so you know, I am writing this comment and probably won't be back on SaSu for the entire day - because I'm taking my kids out, so they can enjoy themselves.

This is prolife normie shit, if you were truly pro choice you'd be joining me in planting explosives in maternity units and thus protecting children from the trauma of having a job in adulthood

 

[landslide2]

This stuff needs its own subforum at this stage imo

I'm sorry, but that's exactly what this whole 'debate' has been about and always is. It is a never ending attack on someone's choice to have children. The 'facts' are often put across as an absolute, when they're not (for example, the last time I checked I had a brain, a heart and kids…so it's possible).

I had chosen to not post on this thread over the past few days, because my thoughts were very similar to @Chinaski.

What normally happens is a comment is made that disagrees with the nihilistic / anti-procreation approach and then there is group attack belittling that individual for daring to speak out, effectively calling them stupid, inconsiderate etc.

Oh wait… that's exactly what's already been happening in this thread, except you're bouncing off each other rather than attacking someone specific.

Just so you know, I am writing this comment and probably won't be back on SaSu for the entire day - because I'm taking my kids out, so they can enjoy themselves.

I 'look forward' to reading any responses once I've put my kids safely to bed.

Seconding this suggestion.

I have nothing against unpopular views as long as they are well argued, but this threads easily turn into circle-jerks where everyone repeats the same things. We have weekly (at the very least) threads of the same nature, and all of them say the same, almost word by word. Like, dude, we know, we did 50 threads ago. IMO, posts like this flood the suicide discussion, make people feel worse than it is, and goes against the idea of an inclusive space this forum is meant to be.

We have a doomer chat, right? Surely this is better fit in a similar sub-forum.

I find nothing wrong with this thread and as an aside it has over 1k views. There is an ignore button you can use. Inclusive means antinatalism being discussed.

 

[Proteus]

I find nothing wrong with this thread and as an aside it has over 1k views. There is an ignore button you can use. Inclusive means antinatalism being discussed.

1. Ignore buttons won't help as it's not one sole user posting them, and they don't personally affect me. So many people post these than you'd never have ignore enough people. There are also users who I want to read, and ignoring means missing everything else. On top of that, threads aren't properly hidden.

2. I never said to ban AN discussions, I just suggested moving them to a sub-forum, where people who don't want to see them can easily avoid it.

 

[Chinaski]

I find nothing wrong with this thread and as an aside it has over 1k views. There is an ignore button you can use. Inclusive means antinatalism being discussed.

Antinatalism and suicide are not directly attached to one another. Giving the enlightened antinatalist thought leaders a subforum actually legitimises, rather than excludes it - it would just mean the main forum could go back to serving its original purpose rather than continue deviating from it. It would also give those who enjoy posting this stuff on the daily a cosy echo chamber of universal agreement which, honestly, is what they seem to want.

 

[landslide2]

Antinatalism and suicide are not directly attached to one another. Giving the enlightened antinatalist thought leaders a subforum actually legitimises, rather than excludes it - it would just mean the main forum could go back to serving its original purpose rather than continue deviating from it. It would also give those who enjoy posting this stuff on the daily a cosy echo chamber of universal agreement which, honestly, is what they seem to want.

Suicide is not directly attached to many specific things. You assume and do so for others.

 

[Tesha]

as an aside it has over 1k views

That'll be the people that bring their popcorn to watch the infighting, law enforcement making sure we're not threatening to end the world and the psychologists studying the weirdos. Don't conflate high numbers with agreement.

Have a lovely day all.

 

[Chinaski]

Suicide is not directly attached to many specific things. You assume and do so for others.

You're right, but literally nothing in this thread is related to suicide

 

[landslide2]

That'll be the people that bring their popcorn to watch the infighting, law enforcement making sure we're not threatening to end the world and the psychologists studying the weirdos. Don't conflate high numbers with agreement.

Have a lovely day all.

Never said it was all agreement, though in the thread mostly it was. Not really any "infighting" except maybe when @Chinaski posted some condescending remarks.

 

[Chinaski]

That'll be the people that bring their popcorn to watch the infighting, law enforcement making sure we're not threatening to end the world and the psychologists studying the weirdos. Don't conflate high numbers with agreement.

Have a lovely day all.

THIS THREAD: procreation is evil and heartless, those of us in agreement are the special 1%, blessed with inherent superiority of insight and willing to rebel against the normie grain and spit inarguable truths to the herdish majority

ALSO THIS THREAD: if more than 1000 people have viewed a thread on the internet that means it's correct and its contents should be chiselled into a tablet of stone, majority rules I'm afraid, step in line and follow the herd goddamit

Never said it was all agreement, though mostly it was. Not really any "infighting" except maybe when @Chinaski posted some condescending remarks.

The thread title, and the contents thereafter, a condemnatory, condescending, vitriolic to those who are suicidal but also have had children. Your parents ain't gonna read these teenage strops but other suicidal people, who fit this criteria of evil wrongdoers, will.

 

[tary]

Why should this particular kind of venting get it's own place? Ignoring threads works just fine, I just tried it. Only seeing content you like is just a couple of clicks away~

Edit: if the only response you can think of to someone criticizing your life choices is "I don't want to see this", you should have a moment of contemplation.

 

[landslide2]

THIS THREAD: procreation is evil and heartless, those of us in agreement are the special 1%, blessed with inherent superiority of insight and willing to rebel against the normie grain and spit inarguable truths to the herdish majority

ALSO THIS THREAD: if more than 1000 people have viewed a thread on the internet that means it's correct and its contents should be chiselled into a tablet of stone, majority rules I'm afraid, step in line and follow the herd goddamit

The thread title, and the contents thereafter, a condemnatory, condescending, vitriolic to those who are suicidal but also have had children. Your parents ain't gonna read these teenage strops but other suicidal people, who fit this criteria of evil wrongdoers, will.

No tablet of stone, just means people are engaged. Rather than negate the experiences and whatever comfort it gave to some who only read, and those who responded in kind, others can scroll past or actively ignore a thread. I doubt you visit every single thread you see listed? I also wouldn't try to play the psychiatrist for the entire forum.

The world is going to get a hell of a lot worse because people aren't having kids so...

I remember years back when they said overpopulation was a huge concern. Now birth rates are declining and the people most afraid are big business, since they won't have cheap labor to exploit. People aren't having as many kids because first it's 2024, but also because they can't afford it, and they're worried about the planet their kids have to inherit. The younger generations are logically more concerned about the environment. De-growth has to happen, the short-term race to the bottom profit seeking has created a monster of massive social/economic inequity, and a planet on the brink. More, more, more just isn't gonna work.

 

[Proteus]

Ignoring threads works just fine, I just tried it. Only seeing content you like is just a couple of clicks away~

if the only response you can think of to someone criticizing your life choices is "I don't want to see this", you should have a moment of contemplation.

Not sure if this is targeted to us or yourself, lol.

Plus you can't ignore everything. This. Threads. Keep. Popping. Out.

 

[malevolentdiety]

I dont understand why people want to bring kids in this fucked up world?

They do it for their own happiness.

 

[tary]

Not sure if this is targeted to us or yourself, lol.

Plus you can't ignore everything. This. Threads. Keep. Popping. Out.

I'm not the one calling for another board or something to be made for any discussion. I don't ignore-button any threads.
And there aren't that many threads like this, unless you mean all threads saying that living is terrible, in which case I'm not sure you're in the right place if you feel the need to ignore "everything".

 

[Proteus]

And there aren't that many threads like this

How can we justify bringing new life into this world?

Now it's a popular view held in philosophy that life is suffering. As Nietzsche once said, "That which does not kill us makes us stronger". Suffering is considered as a factor which helps us grow, or maybe even give our life meaning. Buddhists believe that the human life is one of suffering...

sanctioned-suicide.net

procreation is wrong in my eyes

these are just my opinion You don't have to presume that everyone's life is unworthy, or that the lives of specific people are unworthy, or that actually no one's life is unworthy, in order to hold anti-natalist positions. It is sufficient to know that the life of certain people would be...

sanctioned-suicide.net

you'd have to be a psychopath to procreate

Psychopaths lack a conscience and don't feel empathy for others they don't consider the risk of imposing life on someone else Life is suffering and should not exist, creating a sentient being as flawed as anything on Earth is a sin. You are dooming an innocent people to the possibility of...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Procreation is murder preceded by decades of torture.

Procreation is ethically worse than murder Both involve the same highly unethical act of deciding over life or death for someone else without their consent, deciding for someone else whether they should exist or not, whether they should be an existing consciousness in this world or not. But at...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Those within two weeks. Not counting the many more threads done by many more users. Not counting the attention they get, keeping them on top for so long. Those are different than "living is terrible".

I'm not the one calling for another board or something to be made for any discussion.

Not any. This topic is more recurrent than anything else off-topic, and has little to do with suicidal thoughts, or discussion. There are complaints about clutter in this board. The fact that ignore button exists, and people are still unhappy about these, should make clear it's not enough. The fact people need to ignore regularly doesn't fight the problem. When FC was banned, people said exactly the same, despite all the things that can't be ignored, and the consequences of them in the community.

One doesn't even have to disagree with AN to think this. I don't want to ban AN discussions. Hell, I think this will help those if people put effort on their arguments. Resorting to name-calling destroys any chance of constructive debate. You will still be able to vent. We aren't hiding you guys from everyone else, as the tab will be public. I don't care about our differences, but this thread only looks well to some people here. You don't seem to understand the low opinion everyone else has from this, leaving apart the disagreement. Maybe you don't see it, but this repetitive threads are low-effort, and drag down the quality of the rest of the board. Just because you're fine with it doesn't mean it can't be a problem.

But this was said before many times as well.