WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Excellent post @WhyIsLife56. I question my own existence at times in my life, like "why was I born?" and things like if I was never born, then all of the suffering (and pleasure) that I experience would not be there. I am single and I don't plan on having any kids or bringing in any sentient life into this world. The world is full of suffering and existence itself sucks so I am doing the Earth a favor by not bringing more humans into this world, let alone all the environmental and existential problems.

Speaking of antinatalism, the YouTuber Eye Doubt It has a few videos on the topic. Just recently, he has this video about antinatalism:


I'll have to take a look at the video later. I remember reading a Reddit post saying that even bringing zero children wasn't enough and another comment on a different subreddit (can't remember which one) that just having discussions about antinatalism wasn't good enough. That it was a depressing philosophy and that it doesn't really solve anything if you just discuss and complain about people bringing children into existence. It gave me the thought that committing suicide would be doing a huge favor to the world as well as myself.
You should read into Efilism as well :)
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,707
I'll have to take a look at the video later. I remember reading a Reddit post saying that even bringing zero children wasn't enough and another comment on a different subreddit (can't remember which one) that just having discussions about antinatalism wasn't good enough. That it was a depressing philosophy and that it doesn't really solve anything if you just discuss and complain about people bringing children into existence. It gave me the thought that committing suicide would be doing a huge favor to the world as well as myself.
You should read into Efilism as well :)
I think a combination of anti-natalism (prevent potential suffering by never having new life to begin with) and then voluntary euthanasia (to end current suffering) would be the most ideal model towards ending most of suffering and also helping out the environment as well as over-population.

I will take a look at Efilism when I have some time.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
I think a combination of anti-natalism (prevent potential suffering by never having new life to begin with) and then voluntary euthanasia (to end current suffering) would be the most ideal model towards ending most of suffering and also helping out the environment as well as over-population.

I will take a look at Efilism when I have some time.
Efilism is more important.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
An article that mentions mental illness as part of evolution and natural selection/adaptation


Another one that goes through the biological origins of mental illness


They both mention how mental illness is part of a process of evolution and natural selection. It's most often mentioned that humans aren't wired for happiness, they're wired for survival.
The ones that are most wired for survival the most stay alive and end up procreating.
The ones that survive the most also become more mentally ill since evolution and natural selection favor mentally ill people more than happiness and health.
 
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Nemeshisu

Nemeshisu

Experienced
Dec 25, 2019
236
An article that mentions mental illness as part of evolution and natural selection/adaptation


Another one that goes through the biological origins of mental illness


They both mention how mental illness is part of a process of evolution and natural selection. It's most often mentioned that humans aren't wired for happiness, they're wired for survival.
The ones that are most wired for survival the most stay alive and end up procreating.
The ones that survive the most also become more mentally ill since evolution and natural selection favor mentally ill people more than happiness and health.
A very interesting articles. I can for example see anxiety disorders evolving from various defence mechanism taken too far by our genes.

It may not even be that traits of mentall illness were necessarily beneficial. It actually makes a lot of sense as an invidual with "bad genes of mental illness" may still be able to reproduce if he had other traits that allowed him to survive and find a partner thus spreading his both bad and good genes to offspring. Especially as reproduction could be very easy for some. For example noblemen wouldn't have any trouble having children in past even if they were severely mentally ill.

It just kinda sad that our suicidal tendencies may come from natural selection and our genes playing sick joke on us.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
A very interesting articles. I can for example see anxiety disorders evolving from various defence mechanism taken too far by our genes.

It may not even be that traits of mentall illness were necessarily beneficial. It actually makes a lot of sense as an invidual with "bad genes of mental illness" may still be able to reproduce if he had other traits that allowed him to survive and find a partner thus spreading his both bad and good genes to offspring. Especially as reproduction could be very easy for some. For example noblemen wouldn't have any trouble having children in past even if they were severely mentally ill.

It just kinda sad that our suicidal tendencies may come from natural selection and our genes playing sick joke on us.
Which is why truly depressed people will end up having children because they think having children will solve all their problems. But to the contrary, they're causing more problems instead.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Here's another article on some discussion on whether "mental illness" actually exists. Think "The Joker" :)

 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
The decision to commit suicide is and should be a natural right for any living being. It is not just a human right as animals as well as plants are known to commit suicide as well. Animals are known to commit suicide due to grief, escape from captivity, loneliness, and illness. Plants actively commit suicide once they're injured.
Nobody has any right to decide whether someone is able to commit suicide regardless of age, situation, circumstances and so on.
People on this forum seem to think they have the right to decide that but you don't own them. It is their body. They have the right to full body autonomy.
I would like to think those kind of judgemental people are hypocritical and they are not all that different from pro life people.
 
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CynicalHopelessness

CynicalHopelessness

Messenger of Silence
Jan 9, 2020
940
The decision to commit suicide is and should be a natural right for any living being
I actually think it's a part of a right to live. If your life cannot be taken away by somebody else, it should not be forced upon you to continue existing by somebody else. Humans made a loophole by inventing that "can't think for themselves, needs assistance" concept to take away your autonomy and basically treat you as a subhuman if deemed necessary, and of fucking course they made a catch-22 in that exercising your human right to live in unconventional way makes them treat you as a subhuman that does not have that right.

For suicide it's less controversial even than abortion is (no other life is affected by that choice at all), or antinatalism (you can't quite get consent from an unborn child), but it's done backwards, so that others can avoid grieving about your departure and rethinking their life.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
I actually think it's a part of a right to live. If your life cannot be taken away by somebody else, it should not be forced upon you to continue existing by somebody else. Humans made a loophole by inventing that "can't think for themselves, needs assistance" concept to take away your autonomy and basically treat you as a subhuman if deemed necessary, and of fucking course they made a catch-22 in that exercising your human right to live in unconventional way makes them treat you as a subhuman that does not have that right.

For suicide it's less controversial even than abortion is (no other life is affected by that choice at all), or antinatalism (you can't quite get consent from an unborn child), but it's done backwards, so that others can avoid grieving about your departure and rethinking their life.
Not a loophole. More like manipulation. They just don't want humans to think for themselves.
The right to die should be for everyone whether you're an animal, plant or human.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Life is an extra "slow road" to death. While alive, you're brain tricks you into chasing pleasure and distractions but as time goes by you're becoming closer to death. And when that time ticking time bomb ends, you die. And everything that you've known, including the books you've read, the friends you've met, and those memories, those sweet sweet memories, end up being forgotten as if you've never experienced them. Like poof. You're gone.
What a "road" or should I say "ride" that was.
 
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G

goomsoom

M - 30
Jan 17, 2020
173
If we have an option to do ctb peacefully we could actually live the way we want without always thinking about what will happen if we fail.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
If we have an option to do ctb peacefully we could actually live the way we want without always thinking about what will happen if we fail.
If there was a guarantee of success with a method, there would indeed be less pressure for everyone
 
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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,914
I've read your posts @WhyIsLife56 with interest, along with the links. Life is indeed a sick joke. By the time a species has evolved the intelligence to consider this it has also considered the possibility of suicide as an end to suffering.
It's this rise of intelligence that builds in a self destructive feedback mechanism. Once we developed tools and we could change our environment we sowed the seeds of our own descent. Everything we have done to make life easier has ultimately made us more miserable.
I'm not religious but I think Genesis kind of got it right. The fruit from the tree of knowledge really screwed us up and now the only way we can survive is by burying ourselves in delusion. To see things clearly is to despair.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
I've read your posts @WhyIsLife56 with interest, along with the links. Life is indeed a sick joke. By the time a species has evolved the intelligence to consider this it has also considered the possibility of suicide as an end to suffering.
It's this rise of intelligence that builds in a self destructive feedback mechanism. Once we developed tools and we could change our environment we sowed the seeds of our own descent. Everything we have done to make life easier has ultimately made us more miserable.
I'm not religious but I think Genesis kind of got it right. The fruit from the tree of knowledge really screwed us up and now the only way we can survive is by burying ourselves in delusion. To see things clearly is to despair.
Thanks for reading my posts ❤️
That's why I consider consciousness a burden. Other life forms may not have consciousness like humans do but they're smart in their own ways. They seem to be aware of suffering in their own ways.
Being aware can cause one to not want to play the game, I agree.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Wanting to look more into beyond Efilism, my research led me to Gnosticism.

Looking through past threads, I ended up finding one comment that explained everything that I had been thinking during my childhood until now.

The original comment post can be seen here.

Basically, it explains the logical side of Gnosticism and the so called "survival instinct."

"In other words, Cosmicism is accurate for all intents and purposes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmicism#Principles

Gnosticism is technically correct after a thorough removal of all associated religiosity/metaphysics:

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, "having knowledge", from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a modern name for a variety of ancient religious ideas and systems, originating in Jewish-Christian milieus in the first and second century AD. These systems believed that the material world is created by an emanation of the highest God, trapping the divine spark within the human body. This divine spark could be liberated by gnosis. Some of the core teachings include the following:
  • All matter is evil, and the non-material, spirit-realm is good. (time is abrasive, timelessness is friction-less)
  • There is an unknowable God, who gave rise to many lesser spirit beings called Aeons. (Inflationary Cosmology)
  • One evil, lower spirit being is the creator who made the universe. (omit this point)
  • Gnosticism does not deal with 'sin', only ignorance. (raise your consciousness/self-awareness, and especially your Mortality Salience)
  • To achieve salvation, one needs to get in touch with secret knowledge. (The works of: David Benatar, Peter Wessel Zapffe, Philip Nitschke, Thomas Metzinger --to name a few)
  • time is an insult --at least in this universe.
Lastly, to recap: One can benefit greatly from living and dying by Exit International's mission: "A Peaceful Death is Everybody's Right" --not least of which due to the simple fact that death is the de facto destination of every individual born in this arbitrary, random universe (of which there may be an infinite number, in which case the one we find ourselves ingrained in may well be the garbage one out of the whole lot; other universes may have physical parameters (constants) which maybe aren't so abrasive and hostile--but we don't live in one of those peachy spaces, obviously). The individual is not figuratively, but literally a shadow of time.

death = real & mandatory
human life = random, artificial, and optional"

When my astrological birth chart recommended I look into death as a sform of spirituality, I ended up looking all the way into Gnosticism, interestingly.
As if I was surrounded by death from the day I was born.

As for the "survival instinct," it explains that there's no such thing. Instead it explains it like this:

" If you fear psychological survival instinct, you can come to the realization that this is equivalent to fearing a hologram and/or shadows, --since it is a smoke-and-mirrors trick of perception. If you find yourself fearing a purely psychological or metaphysical survival instinct, you haven't thoroughly removed the sociocultural software that is ingrained in your psyche --ingrained out of pure happenstance due to the haphazard placement of your world line within whichever random society, culture, era, your life (through no choice of your own) is randomly ingrained in.

There is no "survival instinct," only laziness/hastiness of method orchestration and its unsurprisingly subsequent "buyer's remorse" (of which there are more than a few examples of on this site: drowning, hanging, suffocation instead of asphyxiation, blunt force trauma, etc.)

"A successful suicide demands good organization and a cool head, both of which are usually incompatible with the suicidal state of mind."

In reality: I won't be "catching" some bus, but more accurately I will in fact get off the train (at a subjective reference frame of choice). The train of which has been in ceaseless motion & decay along a path to its final destination (death), ever since the very beginning of my ephemeral & finite Homo sapiens experience. "

In other words, it's not survival instinct but buyer's remorse.

And also suicide should be referred to "getting off the train" instead of "catching the bus."
Death is nothing to be afraid of. ❤

Reading the original post made things clear for me now.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Anyone familiar with Thomas Ligotti and The Conspiracy Against the Human Race?

 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
If only I could satisfied with just me ending my life.
The fact that even if I do commit suicide, just thinking about all the other animals and every other life put there suffering and no way to end it with a red button makes me want to blow my brains out.

This is too much despair for me.
I wish there was a red button that you can just sit on that can end it all.
Where's the red button when you need it? ;-;;-;

I want the suffering to end. All of it. ;-;;-;
 
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MysticPerception

MysticPerception

I'm back and I'll still smile for you
Dec 31, 2019
1,252
If only I could satisfied with just me ending my life.
The fact that even if I do commit suicide, just thinking about all the other animals and every other life put there suffering and no way to end it with a red button makes me want to blow my brains out.

This is too much despair for me.
I wish there was a red button that you can just sit on that can end it all.
Where's the red button when you need it? ;-;;-;

I want the suffering to end. All of it. ;-;;-;
The closest thing is the button to launch a nuke and hope nuclear warfare takes it all out. The only life that deserves to keep going is mother earth in my opinion. If we're going off of everything being pointless I mean. Not like the big rock did anything wrong so leave it be as it will burn out eventually anyway just like us but at least. Though I guess you could also just blow up the planet as well and end even that.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
The closest thing is the button to launch a nuke and hope nuclear warfare takes it all out. The only life that deserves to keep going is mother earth in my opinion. If we're going off of everything being pointless I mean. Not like the big rock did anything wrong so leave it be as it will burn out eventually anyway just like us but at least. Though I guess you could also just blow up the planet as well and end even that.
Efilism means that all life is suffering. The universe needs to go or there would be other life forms that evolve from us or other animals/plants would also be suffering.
Just because humans are the only ones with consciousness doesn't mean that others aren't suffering.
And plus they didn't ask to be brought to life either. Just like us. None of us asked for any of this at all.
Nothing should exist.
 
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BooGirl

BooGirl

Warlock
Jan 10, 2020
750
Efilism means that all life is suffering. The universe needs to go or there would be other life forms that evolve from us or other animals/plants would also be suffering.
Just because humans are the only ones with consciousness doesn't mean that others aren't suffering.
And plus they didn't ask to be brought to life either. Just like us. None of us asked for any of this at all.
Nothing should exist.
How about forms of life that can't feel pain?
 
MysticPerception

MysticPerception

I'm back and I'll still smile for you
Dec 31, 2019
1,252
Efilism means that all life is suffering. The universe needs to go or there would be other life forms that evolve from us or other animals/plants would also be suffering.
Just because humans are the only ones with consciousness doesn't mean that others aren't suffering.
And plus they didn't ask to be brought to life either. Just like us. None of us asked for any of this at all.
Nothing should exist.
Oh my bad so we need a delete reality and all instances of existence button. That's gonna be much harder to come by. Though I agree no one asked for any of this that's for sure. I feel like the only thing that can possibly do that is the universe itself. If it ever comes to some sort of natural conclusion maybe everything will be properly erased. I'm not smart enough to tackle this concept lol.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
How about forms of life that can't feel pain?
Evolution. They'll end up evolving to feel pain. I just learned that humans evolved to actually think that there's a "self" as a survival mechanism.

Oh my bad so we need a delete reality and all instances of existence button. That's gonna be much harder to come by. Though I agree no one asked for any of this that's for sure. I feel like the only thing that can possibly do that is the universe itself. If it ever comes to some sort of natural conclusion maybe everything will be properly erased. I'm not smart enough to tackle this concept lol.
I don't think the universe cares unfortunately. That's the thing. If there was a red button, I would push it or sit on it instantly and then no one and no other life form would have to suffer meaninglessly.

I mean the universe doesn't care about us humans. I don't think it'll care if suffering continues. It's too much despair. Endless despair. :'(
 
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purplemoon

purplemoon

I Have the Light Inside, Surrounded by Darkness
Sep 22, 2019
394
Here's another article on some discussion on whether "mental illness" actually exists. Think "The Joker" :)


You found an excellent article!!
 
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MysticPerception

MysticPerception

I'm back and I'll still smile for you
Dec 31, 2019
1,252
Evolution. They'll end up evolving to feel pain. I just learned that humans evolved to actually think that there's a "self" as a survival mechanism.


I don't think the universe cares unfortunately. That's the thing. If there was a red button, I would push it or sit on it instantly and then no one and no other life form would have to suffer meaninglessly.

I mean the universe doesn't care about us humans. I don't think it'll care if suffering continues. It's too much despair. Endless despair. :'(
You really put a heavy burden on yourself thinking about this often huh? The endless despair will continue long after we're gone so maybe it's just me but I feel like worrying about it is also pointless. Not to downplay your discussion though I find it very interesting and spreading this information is a good thing but it really feels like to me that you're beating yourself up for not being able to solve an impossible problem.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
You found an excellent article!!
It's something to think about. I think the concept of mental illness is still something people need to carefully think about instead of just accepting and not questioning it.
You really put a heavy burden on yourself thinking about this often huh? The endless despair will continue long after we're gone so maybe it's just me but I feel like worrying about it is also pointless. Not to downplay your discussion though I find it very interesting and spreading this information is a good thing but it really feels like to me that you're beating yourself up for not being able to solve an impossible problem.
I have too much compassion.
Should I just wish for the world to burn instead? That would be more productive.
For now, all I can do is spread it as much as I can.
 
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purplemoon

purplemoon

I Have the Light Inside, Surrounded by Darkness
Sep 22, 2019
394
You found an excellent article!!
Oh my bad so we need a delete reality and all instances of existence button. That's gonna be much harder to come by. Though I agree no one asked for any of this that's for sure. I feel like the only thing that can possibly do that is the universe itself. If it ever comes to some sort of natural conclusion maybe everything will be properly erased. I'm not smart enough to tackle this concept lol.

i think you are plenty smart, besides, imo your worth is not based on what humans try to define as iq, but rather, your level of goodness & being genuine.

You seem to have both of those wonderful traits.
 
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MysticPerception

MysticPerception

I'm back and I'll still smile for you
Dec 31, 2019
1,252
I have too much compassion.
Should I just wish for the world to burn instead? That would be more productive.
For now, all I can do is spread it as much as I can.
There's no such thing as too much compassion in my book. Keep doing what you're doing, I was just making sure you're okay. Shouldering the existence of every living being is too much to bear for one person. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not too much for someone who cares enough.
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
There's no such thing as too much compassion in my book. Keep doing what you're doing, I was just making sure you're okay. Shouldering the existence of every living being is too much to bear for one person. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not too much for someone who cares enough.
I just want everything to go away. Is it too much to ask?
There's a reason I distract myself to oblivion to forget but apparently there's a limit to how much I can distract myself.
 
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MysticPerception

MysticPerception

I'm back and I'll still smile for you
Dec 31, 2019
1,252
I just want everything to go away. Is it too much to ask?
There's a reason I distract myself to oblivion to forget but apparently there's a limit to how much I can distract myself.
I hear you on that one. I've been trying my best to distract myself lately and usually it works but I guess I've hit my limit for this life. Lately my distractions don't work at all and just fall apart completely. Oh well at least we can keep trying until we finally pull the trigger.
 
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