Life and Existence is a Burden

[WhyIsLife56]

This post is to address the horrors of life and a bit of discussion on the antinatalism/efilism stance. According to biology and history/anthropology, humans as well as animals came from and evolved from nature. Humans weren't designed. We evolved from another kind of animal, monkeys and apes which make us more closely related to other animals in general. In other words, humans in general are still animals underneath. As we evolved over time, our brains developed and became bigger than our previous human ancestors the more we used and made tools to cook, make fire, hunt and survive during the early times. As you see in nature, animals can be seen eating other animals out of survival.

As you're aware everything in nature is based on a food chain A.K.A "eat or be eaten." Every animal including humans are known to be sentient beings which means we all feel pain and are aware of what suffering means. Even plants are subject to pain, just that humans cannot hear it.
Now with modern life, there has been more technology and what with the internet becoming more prevalent, people are alarmingly becoming more aware of their own meaningless existence, especially cause you're born to die in the first place.

Especially when you think about it, the more you end up realizing the world doesn't care about you. Nature doesn't care about you. Biology doesn't care about you. The same goes for animals. Your biology, your DNA doesn't care about you. It doesn't care whether you have depression, whether you're happy, or if you're sad. All it cares about is replicating itself, regardless of your mental health. Life itself only cares about replicating itself, regardless of the horrors of life.

If life was wonderful, you wouldn't have to constantly distract yourself with movies, music, studying until your death. You wouldn't have to escape from the horrors of life if "life was beautiful."

On top of that, society doesn't care about your mental health as it deems suicide as taboo and goes the extra work to make sure you don't succeed or in other cases, makes it more difficult to succeed. This goes to show that life is indeed suffering. As long as you exist, you are guaranteed to suffer in some form or another. Non-existent beings do not suffer as they do not exist.

Thus, procreating is immoral as you are gambling with another person's life and they cannot consent to their own birth. When you're creating another person, you are subjecting it to the fate of death as all existing beings go through death ("born to die") when non-existent beings do not need to. You are creating needs/desires when it didn't have any in the first place.

*This will be my last thread post until my Goodbye thread post. Until then, peace xoxo ❤

 

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

This post is to address the horrors of life and a bit of discussion on the antinatalism/efilism stance. According to biology and history/anthropology, humans as well as animals came from and evolved from nature. Humans weren't designed. We evolved from another kind of animal, monkeys and apes which make us more closely related to other animals in general. In other words, humans in general are still animals underneath. As we evolved over time, our brains developed and became bigger than our previous human ancestors the more we used and made tools to cook, make fire, hunt and survive during the early times. As you see in nature, animals can be seen eating other animals out of survival.

As you're aware everything in nature is based on a food chain A.K.A "eat or be eaten." Every animal including humans are known to be sentient beings which means we all feel pain and are aware of what suffering means. Even plants are subject to pain, just that humans cannot hear it.
Now with modern life, there has been more technology and what with the internet becoming more prevalent, people are alarmingly becoming more aware of their own meaningless existence, especially cause you're born to die in the first place.

Especially when you think about it, the more you end up realizing the world doesn't care about you. Nature doesn't care about you. Biology doesn't care about you. The same goes for animals. Your biology, your DNA doesn't care about you. It doesn't care whether you have depression, whether you're happy, or if you're sad. All it cares about is replicating itself, regardless of your mental health. Life itself only cares about replicating itself, regardless of the horrors of life.

If life was wonderful, you wouldn't have to constantly distract yourself with movies, music, studying until your death. You wouldn't have to escape from the horrors of life if "life was beautiful."

On top of that, society doesn't care about your mental health as it deems suicide as taboo and goes the extra work to make sure you don't succeed or in other cases, makes it more difficult to succeed. This goes to show that life is indeed suffering. As long as you exist, you are guaranteed to suffer in some form or another. Non-existent beings do not suffer as they do not exist.

Thus, procreating is immoral as you are gambling with another person's life and they cannot consent to their own birth. When you're creating another person, you are subjecting it to the fate of death as all existing beings go through death ("born to die") when non-existent beings do not need to. You are creating needs/desires when it didn't have any in the first place.

Sometimes I wonder if my constant urge to CTB is actually natural selection's effort to protect the gene pool from my dna.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Sometimes I wonder if my constant urge to CTB is actually natural selection's effort to protect the gene pool from my dna.

That's interesting. What makes you think that way?

 

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

That's interesting. What makes you think that way?

Since the whole point of natural selection is to strengthen the species, it makes sense to have some kind of error detection and correction. It's hard to spontaneously render a mammal sterile, so why not 1) remove the desire to procreate (I have never wanted kids) and 2) initiate a self-destruct sequence?

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Since the whole point of natural selection is to strengthen the species, it makes sense to have some kind of error detection and correction. It's hard to spontaneously render a mammal sterile, so why not 1) remove the desire to procreate (I have never wanted kids) and 2) initiate a self-destruct sequence?

Wish that were likely. That would be amazing to have right now. The new superpower

 

[SlackJim]

I am very confused and unsure of what exactly I believe, although I have some thoughts about birth, life and death that contradict your stance (though they are not solid beliefs). The first and maybe most pressing difference is that I'm not sure that humans have evolved, purely, biologically on earth. I think we may have come from somewhere else and/or had our biology altered. I agree that nature, the universe, the world, does not care about you, though this can be seen differently depending on the perspective, it can be an extremely liberating realisation too! And I too have chosen not to procreate. I really hear what you're saying in this post, I feel I have had many different points of view in my life and it comes down to where your mind is at the time. the same truth can be heaven or hell for 2 different people. Take care, good luck with everything x

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I am very confused and unsure of what exactly I believe, although I have some thoughts about birth, life and death that contradict your stance (though they are not solid beliefs). The first and maybe most pressing difference is that I'm not sure that humans have evolved, purely, biologically on earth. I think we may have come from somewhere else and/or had our biology altered. I agree that nature, the universe, the world, does not care about you, though this can be seen differently depending on the perspective, it can be an extremely liberating realisation too! And I too have chosen not to procreate. I really hear what you're saying in this post, I feel I have had many different points of view in my life and it comes down to where your mind is at the time. the same truth can be heaven or hell for 2 different people. Take care, good luck with everything x

When facing reality, depending on perspective is out of the question. Reality is right in front of you. Why do you need perspective? Reality doesn't care about your perspective.

 

[SlackJim]

When facing reality, depending on perspective is out of the question. Reality is right in front of you. Why do you need perspective? Reality doesn't care about your perspective.

perspective is reality x

 

[WhyIsLife56]

perspective is reality x

Not really. :)
Perspective is subjective. It's interesting seeing you do some mental gymnastics there :)

 

[SlackJim]

Not really. :)
Perspective is subjective. It's interesting seeing you do some mental gymnastics there :)

my argument is that whatever someone is experiencing, is entirely dependent on their perspective, 2 people could have the same reality in front of them, and each have a different perspective, which they would both call 'reality'. yes it's subjective but are any of us on a human level able to define what is 'real'? I'm not sure that we are, I think we are limited by our experiences, senses, ideas, pasts etc.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

my argument is that whatever someone is experiencing, is entirely dependent on their perspective, 2 people could have the same reality in front of them, and each have a different perspective, which they would both call 'reality'. yes it's subjective but are any of us on a human level able to define what is 'real'? I'm not sure that we are, I think we are limited by our experiences, senses, ideas, pasts etc.

On another post, I mentioned that life is an illusion because when you die you won't have any consciousness to remember whatever you experienced in life.
Perspective is always subjective due to the fact that humans have biases.

 

[OreoWellington]

I am sure going to miss your presence around here once you do go. Thank you so much for your presence and contributions to this website. I appreciated you.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I am sure going to miss your presence around here once you do go. Thank you so much for your presence and contributions to this website. I appreciated you.

I hope it helps other people who stumble upon this website in the future as well as current members and guests

 

[WhyIsLife56]

This is my last thread post until the time comes to posting my goodbye thread post.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Bumping this

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I came across this post on r/antinatalism courtesy of r/andreyloverofmythos and

() for countless of hundreds of millions of years (maybe even more than that). With humans or without humans. With capitalism or without capitalism. Why? One of the laws of thermodynamics some people don´t know exist but maybe is one (if not **the**) most powerful in our universe is **entropy**. What is it? Well, it basically consists of the fact that it is easier to break something than fix something. It´s easier to create and spread a plague than cure it. It´s easier to write a corrupt law for your own benefits than to create a good one with no loopholes. It´s easier to take a good life than a evil life. You see this in action in our universe constantly because shit breaks contantly, but nothing **ever** miraculously improves. Have you ever noticed that?



This, collaborating with the existence of natural selection and game theory, has given birth to a psychopathic (evil) and psychotic (delusional, strongly prone to optimism bias, wishful thinking, false beliefs, etc) species. We enslave those weaker than thus, both [animals](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=3315) and humans, the majority of which are forced to work shitty labor jobs, with a childhood involving neglect, trauma, ostracism, bullying, and a generally poor quality of life. This is the 'pulse' of our species, we abuse our children, teenagers and the weak and traumatize them to have the same evil, systematic nature we have. Note: this is **not** exclusive to humans; you can see this sort of behavior in lions, tigers, and other great predators that exhibit this kind of evil behavior, even if irrationally. And the worse is that I believe if another animal species raised to sentience and became "advanced", they would be the same as us.

Let us say, just imagine if having actual concern for humanity or life is even possible with the idea of extreme success as a CEO or high-ranking corporate figure. It's just complete fantasy. The degree to which this is a fantasy, is like someone saying "An antelope could be just as successful being a carnivore as a Lion can." You simply don't arrive at the positions in those places without being 'carnivorous' towards human beings. Because if you were, you would suffer from the same thing that natural selection punishes a Lion that sucks at killing things would suffer from-- you'd just starve and die, because this is a [**competition**](https://youtu.be/95c5GTp__AU). A kind, benevolent, caring, concerned, charitable CEO would just get eaten alive. The laws of biology(which, **reminder**: Human beings are subject to) and the laws of physics, **prevent** good people from becoming CEO's or high ranking corporate figures. It's simply the way the universe works.

Evil **always** works its way to the top in **any** system given enough time-- there's no other way for it not to, in a competition game which says, "The *sneakiest*, most *dominant*, selfish person climbs, while the most *honest*, most *humble* and *selfless* person gets climbed on."

Entropy constantly empowers that which is empowered by virtue of being the perfect distillation of evil, like the Lion, like the predator, like the apex psychopath who is, has always, and will always sit on the throne of all sentient systems in this block of spacetime moving towards greater entropy. Evil thrives once it achieves power because the powerless must work against entropy, where evil only plows forward exhibiting its nature effortlessly. Good must go *against* nature to be good. Evil does not need to do anything special to go *with* nature.


I know this is gonna be a long read, but it is needed to explain the hellish conditions we are in this universe. The problem is **not** capitalism, the problem is **not** humanity itself, the problem will **never** be what the majority of people tell you the true cause of all problems and all the suffering in this world the is nature and the laws of the universe we exist in. It uproots evil and gives it a way to conquer good and use it for its advantage. **This** is the reality that Disney and most media tries to obfuscate to you with systematically spread happy ending stories, even politics and other distractions are there to obfuscate the hellworld that we live in. People have always been trying to find a problem, when the problem is simple: we are in *Hell.*

Almost no one holds this reality up for examination daily. We are allergic. Most of us have near-zero understanding of the gravity, and those who have glimmers, ignore this fact about the quality of our reality because it's not conducive to living another day. Why must we live another day? Because genes which give rise to culture, all of which is determined by game theory which more or less says, "Psychopathy wins and holds dominion over this game". Natural selection is a game where evil wins, not good. Good is kept around for the purpose of evil wearing it's skin like a mask. Good is not adaptive, in the precise way that the cow in cow hell has no adaptive trait. It's alive. It will bear children. Those children will bear children. But nothing "adaptive" is going on. How? The fact of the matter is, a psychopathic species has kept the herbivore alive for its own gain. This is the precise relationship that evil has to goodness. Goodness is kept alive. Buddhism is kept alive. Any genuine benevolent religious idea, is kept alive. All because evil, which is powerfully [camouflaged](https://i.imgur.com/ri1sTPL.gifv),dominates reality and presses onto it in a way which goodness can never overcome.


There´s *even more* material that I could just keep elaborating on, but the true information is that this life is some kind of evil dystopian hell with no winning moves, because almost all of them empower evil. The worse is that we are delusional evil apes that evolved with brains to blind us to the true, *crushing* gravity of the situation we found ourselves into in this spherical concentration camp. If we were to take our delusional apes glasses off and truly take enough time to analyze our circumstances here on Earth, we would just yell **HOLY FUCKING SHIT** and jump off a window. If everyone was truly aware of *how* bad things are, suicide rates would skyrocket worldwide. Everyone would be killing each other, and everyone would be killing themselves. It would be a suicide epidemic of *biblical* proportions. And everyone would be doing it, not just the poor people, but the CEO´S and other powerful "kings" of Earth, because even **they** would be horrified with the revelation.

TL;DR: Life´s even worse than you think and we are in Hell.

I'd like to think this post sums up a lot of the horrors of life in detail.

*left out some personal info from original Reddit post

 

[Life sucks]

I'll add that even if we are created, its actually worse because its bad and sadistic design.

Life has many problems that can't be solved which will always lead to conflicts. Biology problems are one of the worst and it shows how one's life doesn't mean anything to others and anything.
The worst of all is how humans are self-contradictory and absurd most of the time. Specially their whole stupid systems and how they make it work by lying and abusing each other.
One of the problems in the ultimate free will which doesn't exist, life is a full program and we just do whats written. Humans will ignore this because it will make everything they did fall like law and everything. Because everything happens actually for a reason and can be explained scientifically and its not only about being good or bad.

We can write a whole encyclopedia about problems of life and absurd human stuff and it still won't cover everything.

The good thing is how people realize the shit instead of waiting to be old and filled with lies only to realize it at the end making it a tragic end that nobody cares about and people will write them off as old people dying instead of knowing the real reason and the realization of meaningless. I think talking about life and problems can't end.


I'm glad at least to live in this time and expose the shit of life instead of previous times of lifetime abuse until death. Species living for arbitrarily large number of years based on oppression, killing mind and thinking by lies, systems and crap ideologies.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I'll add that even if we are created, its actually worse because its bad and sadistic design.

Life has many problems that can't be solved which will always lead to conflicts. Biology problems are one of the worst and it shows how one's life doesn't mean anything to others and anything.
The worst of all is how humans are self-contradictory and absurd most of the time. Specially their whole stupid systems and how they make it work by lying and abusing each other.
One of the problems in the ultimate free will which doesn't exist, life is a full program and we just do whats written. Humans will ignore this because it will make everything they did fall like law and everything. Because everything happens actually for a reason and can be explained scientifically and its not only about being good or bad.

We can write a whole encyclopedia about problems of life and absurd human stuff and it still won't cover everything.

The good thing is how people realize the shit instead of waiting to be old and filled with lies only to realize it at the end making it a tragic end that nobody cares about and people will write them off as old people dying instead of knowing the real reason and the realization of meaningless. I think talking about life and problems can't end.


I'm glad at least to live in this time and expose the shit of life instead of previous times of lifetime abuse until death. Species living for arbitrarily large number of years based on oppression, killing mind and thinking by lies, systems and crap ideologies.

In this life, people think that doing the life program is what gives their life meaning when there was no meaning to begin with.
As long as existence exists, there will always be problems. People back then weren't too aware of things back then so it wouldn't be the best time to live, I agree.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Just something to think about..

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Found another really good post comment (r/antinatalism), courtesy of r/Compassionate_Cat about suicidal gaslighting

"Anything that does not maximize population is a taboo, because there are economic and social incentives for making people who fail to maximize population suffer.

There are ancient examples of this, like the taboo of homosexuality, the myths around punishment after death which further instill a death anxiety, and more recent, like the taboo of abortion, the taboo of suicide, the taboo of euthanasia, etc.

If you aren't **maximizing** the population, the king is not happy. Why? Because the king benefits from lots of little ants running around. Even if the ant is stuck to a hospital bed, producing almost nothing other than piss, shit, and agony, this ant *cannot* be allowed to peacefully go. This suffering ordeal is very lucrative. Nurses get paid. Drugs get purchased. Electric company gets paid. The **gears** keep turning. Like a cow is enslaved and milked, the milk of humanity **is** suffering in the system. When you consider the *total* population, the gains are truly massive for forced torture. Progress here is awarded not because some power structures are truly ethically superior, progress is awarded when some power structures become **dominant**, then they can afford to *loosen* these restrictions(ie, the right to abortion, the right to gay marriage, in first world nations, vs. death penalty for homosexuality, abortion illegal, death penalty for violating religious rules, in nations under threat of being dominated). This is why progress is an **illusion**.

Does an ant wish to not have her child because she realizes it would be a mistake? The King can't have that. The priests and magicians of the kingdom need to spread the meme that abortion is the worst thing in the world, and deny the woman her future or autonomy because that's a future potential taxpayer, worker, soldier, consumer, programmer of AI/machine learning. Even a homeless person sitting in filth on a wealthy city's street has value: To make others feel like things are going well. This is the homeless person's 'milk' for which they suffer daily as they are farmed.

This is the burden of the average person when you have a universe which promotes psychopathy to ascend the throne of humanity. The good king/queen is a myth in stories which benefit the elite, because in reality, the good kings/queens had their food poisoned by the evil royal family member who stole the throne, while making themselves look like the hero. This is why psychopathy always beats non-psychopathy. This is called "natural selection" and has been going on for millions of years, to produce the world we see today: Evil in charge. It gets worse-- the laws of physics prevent *any* other state other than a continual perfection and evolution of evil. Good *literally* cannot win in this universe due to the way game theory works here(cheaters are favored over non cheaters: Psychopathy is the *best* framework for winning), and the presence of entropy(things continually break down naturally, which is inherently 'evil', but also serves to ally itself with actual evil actors, to give them shade).

All progress is the illusion produced by the apex of human domination having room to throw such bones to the dogs. Every day is a day where evil distills further while the illusion of progress becomes more and more compelling. The future involves a perfect obfuscation of evil with an unshakable illusion of good -- a perfect dystopia."

 

[BabyYoda]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

I have no words.

This is the only philosophy that's useful to me right now.

Everytime I read stuff about these, I think "Why do we have these things and not other things?" Like trying to grasp the meaning of the universe is mind numbing. We could've been different. We could've evolved from aliens or some shit and have a different perspective of life. Waking up is fucking scary *head explodes* and now I have a reason to always be afraid, always be overwhelmed, always be miserable, always overthink, always wait for the day I die. I will cry every night because I know that in the end I will be alone.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

I have no words.

This is the only philosophy that's useful to me right now.

Everytime I read stuff about these, I think "Why do we have these things and not other things?" Like trying to grasp the meaning of the universe is mind numbing. We could've been different. We could've evolved from aliens or some shit and have a different perspective of life. Waking up is fucking scary *head explodes* and now I have a reason to always be afraid, always be overwhelmed, always be miserable, always overthink, always wait for the day I die. I will cry every night because I know that in the end I will be alone.

Evolving in itself is terrible for any life form.
I would blame evolution and entropy in this case.
Welcome to antinatalism + eflism

 

[AlexM]

This like revelation. I disagree with something but it's amazing!

 

[WhyIsLife56]

This like revelation. I disagree with something but it's amazing!

What do you disagree with?

 

[AlexM]

What do you disagree with?

We can't know be sure which more in our being - suffering or pleasure. When we bore another person we hope shy/he/it will be more lucky then we. Yes, in one day it will go through death, but death is not equivalent to evil (it looks like strange in the forum SS lol). And, we don't have moral obligation to make good things only, we just have moral obligation don't make bad ones. It mean we should not have a child if we sure their being will be unhappy, but it is not immoral as you create another person in any other case.
Of course we cannot ask a new creature about agreement that their own birth :) By the way I don't know what I would responded if my parents asked my. Anyway absolutely every person can to make decision - to wait a death in old age or to leave before.
The world is getting more human (lol again) - we're not burned at the stake on a long time, somewhere permits abortion, same-sex marriages and euthanasia I hope Pro-choice will win and we will be free from non-voluntary obligations.
Sorry for my broken English :)

 

[WhyIsLife56]

We can't know be sure which more in our being - suffering or pleasure. When we bore another person we hope shy/he/it will be more lucky then we. Yes, in one day it will go through death, but death is not equivalent to evil (it looks like strange in the forum SS lol). And, we don't have moral obligation to make good things only, we just have moral obligation don't make bad ones. It mean we should not have a child if we sure their being will be unhappy, but it is not immoral as you create another person in any other case.
Of course we cannot ask a new creature about agreement that their own birth :) By the way I don't know what I would responded if my parents asked my. Anyway absolutely every person can to make decision - to wait a death in old age or to leave before.
The world is getting more human (lol again) - we're not burned at the stake on the a long time, somewhere permits abortion, same-sex marriages and euthanasia I hope Pro-choice will win and we will be free from non-voluntary obligations.
Sorry for my broken English :)

1. You can't guarantee the quality of life of the unborn child.
2. An unborn child can't consent to their own birth. Also, an unborn child does not have any desires, cannot think or feel as it does not exist. The baby doesn't exist.
Thus, the baby isn't asking to be born.
3. You have desires and thoughts only because you're alive. When you're dead or don't exist anymore, those desires and thoughts also stop existing because your brain and consciousness dies/stops existing.

 

[AlexM]

1. You can't guarantee the quality of life of the unborn child.
2. An unborn child can't consent to their own birth. Also, an unborn child does not have any desires, cannot think or feel as it does not exist. The baby doesn't exist.
Thus, the baby isn't asking to be born.
3. You have desires and thoughts only because you're alive. When you're dead or don't exist anymore, those desires and thoughts also stop existing because your brain and consciousness dies/stops existing.

Yeah, you're right, but you can't to be sure, the unborn child would be more happy or unhappy. If we took away their happy - is it good or bad? If a person is unhappy it's possible to leave, but unborn person can't know - is own happy or not? it just have no choice.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Yeah, you're right, but you can't to be sure, the unborn child would be more happy or unhappy. If we took away their happy - is it good or bad? If a person is unhappy it's possible to leave, but unborn person can't know - is own happy or not? it just have no choice.

They don't have the concept of happiness cause they don't exist. It's not a matter of good or bad. The unborn child doesn't need to be happy or depressed if they don't exist.

 

[AlexM]

I mean an alive person could to make decision - is own happy or not, unborn child can't.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I mean an alive person could to make decision - is own happy or not, unborn child can't.

You said unborn child in your post.