Discussion Let's talk controversial: Do you find suicides of minors justifiable?

[jar-baby]

What is the age where a person reaches level of maturity and consciousnes to be worthy of making this decision for themselves rightfully? Is there even any specific one? Are there ever bad reasons? How do you make that judgement if it's matter of individual intelligence untied to age?

There's no apparent neuropsychological metric (afaik) you could use to accurately determine whether a given individual should be allowed to complete suicide, and there certainly isn't a single age you could use to decide for everyone (that includes 25). There are adults with the temperament and intelligence of children, and minors who are intelligent to understand the consequences of suicide and make a rational decision. I think we should make the judgement using age (>18 seems okay, I guess*) because it's probably the best heuristic we could use, practically speaking, when assessing an individual's capacity to think rationally.

If someone suffers at very young age and already contemplates suicide, could that be enough of a proof that they understand it's concept no matter their age?

No.

Should suicides of minors be stopped no matter what, or do you find cases like these their conscious rightful decisions?

I'm sure there are exceptional cases but generally I think minors should be prevented from ctb.

I think the six-year-old's case is incredibly tragic and a counterexample to the idea that every individual should have the right to die. She didn't know the pain of existence—she'd just argued with her mom, knew what would cause death, and she probably knew that death was just a really bad thing. I find it incredibly hard to believe she truly realised the significance of what she was doing.

*Though it's more like there is no perfect age at which to set the requirement and I'm assuming the logic used to make 18 the minimum age for voting (an act that requires some capacity for rational thought) in most countries could be extended to the right to die.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Having stopped numerous adolescents during their attempts, it's something I think about and struggle with greatly since I think the right to die is absolute. So from a moral absolutist standpoint, I think if someone says that an individual is the only owner of their life and they have the right to decide their tolerance for suffering, then you have to agree children have the right to commit suicide. From a societal and human perspective, it's tough to not stop a child making an attempt. Not saying it's right, just that it's difficult.

 

[astr4]

maybe it's because i'm still in my 20s but i just find it so… invalidating and lacking empathy to expect people to suffer for another decade or whatever just because you personally aren't comfortable with young people dying. is it not rather hypocritical to desire that right for yourself, but when it comes to youth there are all these caveats like oh they're not mentally fit to make these decisions, they still could change their mind, etc etc? people already say this shit about us, that we're all just mentally ill and not in our right minds and things will get better so we should just suffer with a smile so then what about people who are mentally disabled, do they not deserve to be free of their suffering too? should the older gentleman with dementia not be allowed to ctb because he isn't all there mentally? or is it that because they're young, any suffering they have undergone doesn't count in comparison? it doesn't matter how bad they must have had it growing up, they have to suffer like we did!

idk i have a lot of feelings on this. i wish i died young. i wish i didn't let people sell me the bs that life gets better. you work sleep eat and then you die. i should have stuck to my guns as a teenager, and i resent everyone who has kept me here.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Suicide has no "age." I think boldness and impulsivity predispose people to suicide.

Children and adults with impulsive personalities and emotional dysregulation disorders are more likely to commit suicide because healthy coping skills require connecting emotions to actions.

Impulsivity can explain suicide in children with little life experience. Children are equally likely to attempt suicide if they do not receive emotional support from their parents to help them control their impulses. "Loving parents" is not enough! Understanding your child's mental state and supporting their healthy development requires more than "love."

Adults with mental illness share the same trifecta: impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, and suicidal ideation. Bipolar disorder has a high suicide rate due to impulsive actions in response to suicidal thoughts. All my bipolar friends, including two tweens, committed suicide by gunshot to the head.

 

[KillingPain267]

I even believe minors should be allowed to vote, so yes. But I think everyone (both child, adult and elderly) should be offered education about treatment and recovery first if they express wishes to ctb. For children or intellectually challenged people, the education would be slower and offered more often before they should be "let go" to make their own decision and offered something like assisted euthanasia. I.e. they need to learn how serious ctb is as a decision. That said, I had my first thought of ctb at age 14, and wish I had done it. Any good things I experienced since was not worth the suffering I am in now more than double the age.

 

[Twiceler]

Until you find an answer to the bullies (people still trying to), ctb is the only guaranteed way out from them in any age, from the moment you realize you're not immortal. It can be 12, or even 6 or 18.

It may be influenced or forced, but this is another question.

Also, teens and children can do it "for fun", or as offended by parents or by relatives, not even talking about romantic relationships. These cases I admire and envy the most.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Yeah it really catched my eye. Here is the original source: https://www.suicidecleanup.com/youngest-suicide/

I found the original news article that was used as source for the article on that website.

https://web.archive.org/web/2022111...kept-secret-suicide-or-accident/281-332688936

It provides a bit more information.
The police department disagreed on the conclusion that it was a suicide, but I suppose they couldn't really do much more considering the circumstances.

I still find it odd that a 6 year old would be able to make a choice to suicide, go through with it, and actually succeed too without failing.
Didn't she feel pain at all or have SI kick in?

I personally find it suspicious and not convinced myself that a child that young would be able to do this.

 

[Coconut blue]

Suicide isn't something anyone should have to "justify"

 

[Artemisia]

There's no way I can be convinced that 6 yo, or any other, was fully aware of what she was doing! I was 6 when my grandma died and I realized what was death, what it meant, but it was still just this abstract idea to me. I think the girl was just very unlucky, because the amount of people who fail to ctb that way is considerable and she just did it! The chances were that given her age, she wouldn't know where to place the belt properly and the whole thing failed. But no, she actually succeed. Six, for me, is definitely too young to fully understand life and death and have the autonomy to make this decision.

As for the 12 yo... It shouldn't be about his right to end his life. It's a case of bullying, it's a case of the system, school, teachers and parents failing him. He should never have had to be confronted with such decision, because he should have been protected from the aggressor. Now, instead take a child who has a very complicated illness, whose life will never be more than surgeries, hospital stays and nothing ever resembling a normal life, until s/he dies in a few years. I think that under the circumstances, if said child is adamant that s/he doesn't want to survive like that, then yes, the opinion should be respected. At 14, 15, there shouldn't be any question about it, definitely. But that's for cases where there really isn't' much that can be done. If the issues are bullying, low self esteem, trouble at home, romantic relationships and all other issues that are more common to lead young people to suicide, the discussion shouldn't be about their right to end their lives, but about the more ways those issues can fixed, or at least lightened, so that they don't feel like ending their lives is the only choice left. Easier said than done, of course.

 

[dolemitedrums]

Honestly I think you have to at least experience a bit of life after high school to have enough perspective to make a sound decision on something as big as suicide. There is no way that six year olds should be doing this. Absolutely not.

 

[Ampsvx123]

To force someone to die twice is to be an abomination. Those who commit such atrocities bring God's wrath unto themselves, they shall learn empathy as they live their wickeries a million time over.

 

[outrider567]

No

 

[GhostShell]

If I was successful in killing myself when I was 15, I would have saved myself a toooon of suffering. It would have been better for me and everyone else.

 

[blackwidow]

I could write alot but I won't. All I know is I grew up in the 70s... You never heard of suicide in children. I think that says it all really.. Society.. Peer pressure.. Mental health.. Online games.. Internet... Pressure... The list goes on and on... It's a very very sad world we all live in now.

 

[yellowjester]

You never heard of suicide in children

That's because suicide in children was even more of a taboo topic in the 70s than it is now. The economy might've been better then, but society in general was much harsher (in many different ways), and social norms were more rigidly enforced than they are today. Don't let nostalgia fool you.

 

[kindalone]

Minors don't have the tools and capabilities to assess their situation properly yet. Even though a late teenager might have adult-like maturity levels, they still have somewhat of a tunnel vision that can only be remedied by some experience in the real world as an independent adult. With that said, I still think a person is allowed to deal with whatever situation their facing however they please. It might be overblown or over-the-top, but nobody knows what anyone is going through. Pain can be unbearable and it would be cruel for anyone to force someone to go through that without consent.

 

[jbear824]

My take is, if the person who wants to die, understands death and what that means and they still want to, then they should be allowed to.

 

[why_why_why]

as a former teacher ive worked with kids as young as 4 and a few memorable ones were children who expressed the want to die or overall seem "suicidal". i say that in quotes because when you ask them why they often say "because everyone hates me", "... wouldnt let me play with them", "i have no friends", "i deserve it" etc.

i also believe those who end up ctbing or idolizing it all of their life either feel that way or dont. many people in my life have never once thought about ctb and others its always lingering in the background no matter how much effort they put into recovery.

when it comes to minors, i apologize but i have to disagree with a lot of you i frankly think its disgusting thinking children ctbing is a way of ending their suffering. if you are over the age of 25 and have suffered all your life then by all means you have that option but it is the truth these minors do not have fully developed brains and simply havent lived yet. they havent even had the option to choose recovery or not on their own even if they wanted to as most of the time they would be under the guardianship of adults.

not that there is an age limit to who can and cannot ctb obviously people ctb every day at every age for every reason and i dont think there is and should be a way to stop that because at the end of the day, if we want to we will find a way, as evident on this forum. to me it just fills me with sorrow to see little ones suffer as i have. if i could stop the pain for them i would as it is cruel for children to have to feel such complex things

 

[yxmux]

I find the argument that they simply don't understand the weight of what they're doing to be somewhat of a patronizing viewpoint. I can agree that suicide should generally be out of reach for children with acute suicidal risk, though I believe there are those suffering from chronic suicidal ideation to have serious intent on CTBing who have sufficient insight. Though I'm not a minor, I'm still relatively young (19), and I believe that I'm intelligent and autonomous enough in my thinking to know the prognosis of my life and comprehend what would entail if I were to CTB. I don't doubt someone 16-18 years old could do the same. Not all of them, obviously, and chances of recovery is for the most part situational.

 

[ARW3N]

You have to be aged 18+ to log in to SS for a start, which is what happens when I log in. I find no problem or fault with that.

 

[_AllCatsAreGrey_]

I believe most of us here agree that every person should have a right to die, for any reason they might have. But where is your standpoint when it comes to minors? How is your moral compass set here?

I personally feel that they have the right to make their choices. I may not always agree, but it's not my choice. I would however not feel right in directly and knowingly aiding them. For me that would be where I draw the line.

It reminds me of this episode of Paranoia Agent:

 

[astr4]

You have to be aged 18+ to log in to SS for a start, which is what happens when I log in. I find no problem or fault with that.

Funnily enough I've seen and reported 3 people this week alone for being underage so :/ Seems they're getting through anyways.

Despite all my opinions on underage people having the right to ctb, I certainly don't think we should make the information easily accessible to them or anything.

 

[martinso67]

I think the lowest acceptable age for suicide is 25. But the age requirement of 60 or older is ridiculous. I mean most who had suffering or medidical conditions would be already dead.
Also it's pushing euthanasia and suicide as an acceptable if one is a senior. It supports also the narrative that "old people or seniors that age or older are a drain on society". "and that's OK when they die and free up resources for the the younger and productive people". Like one politician suggesting the cruel and stupid idea of euthanizing old people in pensioners age.

 

[destinationlosangel]

this is a rough subject. While I can't say my opinion on this, I strongly believe that it is the parent's responsibility to be apart of the child's life and assist them for as long as they can.
The parents should be involved with the child's mental health, but not being too pushy or being too carefree, as to provide an environment where the child feels safe to talk about their worries.

There are rare cases where the child feels the need to hide their troubles from their parents, regardless if said parents have created a safe environment for such topics.

My opinion on this matter angers a lot of parents, as I've had plenty of conversations like this with my family and other friends. But until the age of 18 (at least in the U.S) the health of a child resides in the parent's hands. This is not to say a child's suicide is always the parents fault, of course. But, truthfully, when I hear of a child committing suicide, I can't help but to wonder where their parents were.

AGreed 100%. Parents are to a large extent responsible. If there is support from parents, I think most kids have a chance. But its hard for a parent to accept that they have a role to play here. The truth hurts you know

 

[deadalready1]

That's very sad and it happens daily in America! I wish I have control over school system I'll burn them alive. To die due to bullying is very very sad! I don't think those kids were just suicidal because they wanted to die. That's why I hate people. Some of them can be evil

 

[Tony24]

It's heartbreaking when kids and teens want to kill themselves. I don't want them to commit suicide. So,... no.

 

[lonely and depresse]

I think that everyone at a different age is smart enough to make big decisions by themselves. I think that at the age of 16 I was smart enough to make big decisions myself because I made the biggest and best decision that year which was to stay away from society. And now I am 20

 

[corpsive]

So much talk about a person's right to die, but nothing about a person's right to live a happy life.

So much condoning of suicide because "what if they're being abused", but hardly any condemning of abuse itself.

 

[Abbyssmal]

I think its completely justifiable. it was just as much a rational decision to kill myself when i was 17 as it would be now at 19. every day i wish i had the physical strength to actually do it back then, but now that ive tried every option possible i realize that i had no reason to believe i would simply just "get better" one day. nothing will ever make the pain of simply being something worth it for a lot of people. as long as someone is mentally mature enough why should there be an age limit to suicide being "socially justifiable".

 

[Praestat_Mori]

We should ask: Why do children and teens become suicidal at all?

I think nobody is born to be immediately suicidal. There are plenty of external reasons why children and teens become suicidal - I would say the most common ones are: abuse, toxic household/parents, bullying, and not being able to fulfill the parents' wish to be a "genius", there're many more reasons.

So much talk about a person's right to die, but nothing about a person's right to live a happy life.

So much talk about a person's right to die, but nothing about a person's right to live a happy life.
I second this. Everyone has the right to live a happy life. Not being able to live a happy life can cause MH issues imo.