Discussion Let's talk controversial: Do you find suicides of minors justifiable?

[UmbraDweller]

I believe most of us here agree that every person should have a right to die, for any reason they might have. But where is your standpoint when it comes to minors? How is your moral compass set here?

What is the age where a person reaches level of maturity and consciousnes to be worthy of making this decision for themselves rightfully? Is there even any specific one? Are there ever bad reasons? How do you make that judgement if it's matter of individual intelligence untied to age?

If someone suffers at very young age and already contemplates suicide, could that be enough of a proof that they understand it's concept no matter their age? If an adult commits suicide for same reason like minor, what makes minor's case unreasonable?



There are cases of children who committed suicides at such young age as 6 years old.



Should suicides of minors be stopped no matter what, or do you find cases like these their conscious rightful decisions? Where do you draw the line of what's justifiable and what's not?

 

[Doctor Logan]

I'd say the lowest I'd go is 16, but I'd also count other factors.

 

[UKscotty]

I personally think the pro death are pure and absolute evil.

Young people have a lot of chance of recovery and getting better, their mind is not even fully developed.

Kids these days will get a rope or do a bottle of pills over a comment on Facebook. It's nuts.

 

[Z-A]

Where does age play a role when a person, whether a child or an adult, wants to escape from the suffering in this world, which can be so harsh as to be unbearable, or simply because they find existence undesirable? Who are we to tell each other what is justified and what is not?

A kid can't fully understand their actions or process their thoughts? Excuse me? The pain of existence should be understandable without any conditions, requirements, or justification for a desire to end suffering.

I'm deemed a devil in society if I say this out loud. But in my opinion, there is nothing more sadistic than letting a person suffer because of your own personal beliefs.

 

[Wolf Girl]

I don't support minors ctb except under extreme circumstances. There is too much room for growth and recovery. I used to work with mentally ill youth and some of the turnarounds were unexpected and miraculous. Life is painful, yes, but people with limited experiences may still find that there are things that make it worth it for them. I think it's reasonable to take time to try to find and secure them.

I think it should be 35+ under normal circumstances to give room for recovery in adulthood with more brain development on your side. And the decision should be made over time while in a normal mental state, not in crisis or a mood episode or a rough patch.

 

[Zaphkiel]

It really depends of circumstances, we can't judge.
If we talk extreme and controversial, i wouldnt blame a childe soldier or a sexually abused child to attempt. There are ton of others (and softer) examples.

There is no black and white, only a big grey zone, and it depend of where you are in this zone.

We can't say that just because some people are young they can recover magically; You can already be fucked up at a very young age, if life decided so and you were already out of luck right out of the womb.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I don't care how justifiable their suicides are, they still don't belong anywhere near this site per the rules. I don't care how unempathetic that sounds either because anyone selfish enough to risk this entire site just for their own suicide deserves no sympathy, minor or not.

 

[m1ll1pede]

its sad… I tried to ctb when I was still a minor. Its not justifiable at all. Suicide isnt either. Its a stop, Its a way out. It still happens.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yes, I do. They didn't ask to be born into existence to begin with... in fact nobody did. Hence they should be allowed a peaceful way out of here at any time. The argument that they could recover since they're young is absolutely moot as, after death, the concept of recovery cannot even exist from the perspective of the dead person. At that point it's futile to compare what their future could have been as they are dead and no longer have any future. Time stops from their perspective for all eternity whereas time continues for those who are alive.

I'm not the type of person to gatekeep who should die or not. I have the @FuneralCry take on this matter

 

[smvrtsa]

i would find it incredibly disrespectful and cruel if i were a suicidal kid and someone tried to make that decision for me because i'm young and i'll "grow out of it." i was suicidal as a preteen and over a decade later that hasn't changed. at least if i died as a kid society would mourn me. should we give access to resources freely to kids? probably not. but if they've decided it's time to ctb, are you going to be so cruel as to institutionalize them for the next few years?

 

[sancta-simplicitas]

I've been thinking about this and can't really come up with a moral standpoint. Of course, no kid should suffer to the point that they feel a need to CTB, society should step in and bend itself backwards at every, little sign of such suffering. The problem is that it doesn't work like that, at least not in the society that I personally live in.

I'm thinking about this case that happened in 2022. An eleven year old boy had (unbeknownst to everyone) acquired PANS after a streptococcus infection. He had begun to experience catatonia, age regression, severe headaches, uncontrollable rage and personality changes. They sent him to a neurologist who alledgedly did extensive testing during the course of months and who couldn't find anything. After they had ruled out every physical cause they could think of, they assumed it was psychogenic and referred him to pediatric psychiatry as an emergency case. In complete congruence with how psychiatry usually behaves here, nothing ever happened. They accused him of "faking for attention" (I swear to God, if I could criminalize one sentence that would be it), completely dismissed the emergency referral and told them to go home and "wait it out". The boy became psychotic, his parents tried everything they could to get them to help him but to no avail, eventually they dismissed him by claiming that he was "too young". When he ended up suicidal, they accused him of faking that too, said that kids that age can't be suicidal. He ended up killing himself, because they refused to help him.

That is a tragedy, without a doubt. It's a tragedy for a loving parent to lose a child. It's a tragedy for societ to have failed to the point the ,ental health services drove a young boy to suicide. It's a tragedy because childhood is supposed to be a time of naïevity, exploration and innocence, a young child simply isn't supposed to carry burdens that heavy. I know it happens anyway - it certainly happened to me - but it's not supposed to. It goes against everything we've collectively decided, everything that human biology actually is because we are (fucking supposed to be) wired to protect our youngsters.

On the other hand. It's very unlikely that things would have ever gotten better for him. He was 11 and already stuck in the cycle of abuse by the mental health services. I've been there myself and that's why I'm here. In a best case scenario, he'd grown up to become a neuroleptics zombie with a list of medicines as long as a Bible with an equal amount of side effects, he'd be an outcast from society and a given target for further abuse by so called professionals. I've seen what these people can do, I've lived what these people can do and I have friends with actual brain damage from years of being in the system. A friend of mine once had a doctorate in theorethical philosophy and a degree in mathematical didactics. After nine years in the system, she's unable to pay her own bills, doesn't know what day of the week it is and recently had her first psychotic break. Would it be ethical to condemn a child - anyone - to a future like that? Even if there's a teeny, tiny possibility that maybe, just maybe, some would possibly eventually help him?

 

[unusally alive]

I dont agree with it. While you might be old enough to have these thoughts and feelings, those ages are too volatile to make any reasonable decision. I find 19+ to be the cut off point, that's also the age that i first tried.

 

[SilentSadness]

There's no magic number when someone becomes ready to choose suicide. If someone can rationally explain why they want to die, that seems enough to me. At lower ages, there is a higher risk of parents coercing their children. There's also a risk of impulsivity which is caused by lack of assisted suicide. If someone can't choose to die, they are a slave.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Where does age play a role when a person, whether a child or an adult, wants to escape from the suffering in this world, which can be so harsh as to be unbearable, or simply because they find existence undesirable? Who are we to tell each other what is justified and what is not?

A kid can't fully understand their actions or process their thoughts? Excuse me? The pain of existence should be understandable without any conditions, requirements, or justification for a desire to end suffering.

I'm deemed a devil in society if I say this out loud. But in my opinion, there is nothing more sadistic than letting a person suffer because of your own personal beliefs.

Many children have been kidnapped raped and tortured .
Imagine a few adults kidnapped a child of 12 years old. They locked the child in a basement about to torture the child. The child sees a rope in the room and a pipe to hang from . So of course it's better for the child to use the rope and hang themselves than to be tortured for years as a slave. But they slander us and say we are pro death if we suggest the child should use the rope.My point is horrible things can and are probable to happen in this evil world and evil life.

They will say a child can't determine that they should kill themselves in that situation which is ridiculous what they say. At 12 u can tell what's better suicide or being tortured for years.

They'll say "but the risks are worth it a kid everyone has to "enjoy" youtube social media tv food looking at nature . Being tortured is so worth that."

Fuck that life is hell 8 million children go missing every year worldwide., also cancer , accidents stroke etc

30 Scary Kidnapping Statistics You Can’t Afford To Ignore

What are your chances of getting kidnapped? To stay informed and safe, this comprehensive list of kidnapping statistics is here to help.

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Junko Furuta was 16 and tortured for 44 Days

44 days Hell: The gruesome story of the torture and murder of Junko Furuta!

Junko Furuta was a 16-year-old Japanese girl who was subjected to 44 days of rape and torture before dying at the hands of her captors on November 22, 1989

www.anabelmagazine.com

I wouldn't want to exist if I were a billionaire young adult "healthy" . Much less with any suffering

 

[ohyouknow]

I do not think that suicide is immoral at any age. I think that society is sick if it creates situations that lead to suicide. I think it is particularly sad when a person hasn't really had a chance to even attempt to make a better life for themself.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Many children have been kidnapped raped and tortured .
Imagine a few adults kidnapped a child of 12 years old. They locked the child in a basement about to torture the child. The child sees a rope in the room and a pipe to hang from . So of course it's better for the child to use the rope and hang themselves than to be tortured for years as a slave. But they slander us and say we are pro death if we suggest the child should use the rope.My point is horrible things can and are probable to happen in this evil world and evil life.

They will say a child can't determine that they should kill themselves in that situation which is ridiculous what they say. At 12 u can tell what's better suicide or being tortured for years.

They'll say "but the risks are worth it a kid everyone has to "enjoy" youtube social media tv food looking at nature . Being tortured is so worth that."

Fuck that life is hell 8 million children go missing every year worldwide., also cancer , accidents stroke etc

30 Scary Kidnapping Statistics You Can’t Afford To Ignore

What are your chances of getting kidnapped? To stay informed and safe, this comprehensive list of kidnapping statistics is here to help.

legaljobs.io

Junko Furuta was 16 and tortured for 44 Days

44 days Hell: The gruesome story of the torture and murder of Junko Furuta!

Junko Furuta was a 16-year-old Japanese girl who was subjected to 44 days of rape and torture before dying at the hands of her captors on November 22, 1989

www.anabelmagazine.com

I wouldn't want to exist if I were a billionaire young adult "healthy" . Much less with any suffering

That case still horrifies me to this day. They made a Japanese horror movie about it years ago and as much as I love Asian horror, I couldn't sit through it.

 

[Tesha]

As a general rule 25+. There will always be people who are outliers because of their circumstances, but these should be the exception.

I think promortalists generally lack the ability to rationally see differing views - which is a trait I'd also attribute to people who generally display immature critical thinking. I've generalised here deliberately, as again there will be exceptions to this.

 

[Darkover]

at any age all that require is desire to escape this undesirable shitty machine lifetime and world, anyone should be able to cut short their lifetime at any time

 

[Linda]

I can only assess this from my own experience. By age 14 or so I would certainly have been capable of making a rational decision about suicide. (I had no wish to die at that age, but that's not the point.) So if I consider that I would have been capable of making such a decision then, I don't see how I can deny the same right to other people.
There must be some age limit at which people are not capable of making such a decision, and my own experience obliges me to place that limit somewhere below 14. However, I don't want to get drawn into a debate about just where that limit is. I don't know the answer. And it probably depends to a considerable extent on each person's circumstances.

 

[Darkover]

I personally think the pro death are pure and absolute evil.

i actually think anyone imposing these lives on someone is pure evil pro creationist are absolutely evil
it would be better if nothing existed at all

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Do you find suicides of minors justifiable?

Yep. And I would have been the first to 'volunteer' if it weren't for dumb pro-lifers censoring information about effective suicide methods.

I think I would have done it around age 14-15, maybe 18-19 at latest.

 

[ASp4E]

I don't believe others should have the authority to decide for you any arbitrary restriction on your right to die. I can understand that younger people and children may not always have their brains fully developed, or have as much life experience as older adults, but who are we to decide a subjectively unreasonable blanket ban based on a factor they can't control, and force them to suffer longer or have to resort to more painful and risky alternative CTB methods? If maturity and understanding of the significance of death are a concern, then perhaps it would be better to prioritize those over age. But I still don't think it's fair either way to revoke their right to autonomy and death, as you may be effectively evaluating and comparing peoples' relative suffering and deciding for them what they should be forced to deal with. Others adopting restrictions with similar "good intentions" is how many of us ended up secretly going to suicide forums for advice in the first place. What may be "good intentions" for some, are often "bad intentions" for others.

 

[LifeCanBeCruel]

I'm more inclined to say yes for terminal illness and severe, unmanageable physical conditions. If an adult cannot endure that kind of suffering then why should we expect a minor to be able to? I guess I should extend that to mental illness as well, but mental illness is more complex and I am not knowledgeable enough about it to make up my mind.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I think the first case could have been prevented definitely if the parents and/or school intervened properly.

It's definitely not the first time a kid has committed suicide because of bullying, and unfortunately I don't expect it to be the last time.


The second case seems curious though, a 6 year old kid understanding the implications of suicide?
You have the original source for that article?

 

[Linda]

I think the first case could have been prevented definitely if the parents and/or school intervened properly.

It's definitely not the first time a kid has committed suicide because of bullying, and unfortunately I don't expect it to be the last time.


The second case seems curious though, a 6 year old kid understanding the implications of suicide?
You have the original source for that article?

The youngest case I have heard of was a 5 year old. It was mentioned by Durkheim, though he gave no details.

 

[nightlygem]

this is a rough subject. While I can't say my opinion on this, I strongly believe that it is the parent's responsibility to be apart of the child's life and assist them for as long as they can.
The parents should be involved with the child's mental health, but not being too pushy or being too carefree, as to provide an environment where the child feels safe to talk about their worries.

There are rare cases where the child feels the need to hide their troubles from their parents, regardless if said parents have created a safe environment for such topics.

My opinion on this matter angers a lot of parents, as I've had plenty of conversations like this with my family and other friends. But until the age of 18 (at least in the U.S) the health of a child resides in the parent's hands. This is not to say a child's suicide is always the parents fault, of course. But, truthfully, when I hear of a child committing suicide, I can't help but to wonder where their parents were.

 

[Abyssal]

I think all suicide is justified, not because death is good or even better than life, but rather because it takes a great deal of strength to accomplish suicide so their pain must've been horrible. Nobody is "not suicidal enough to be suicidal" and I'd be a hypocrite to say they are in the wrong given my suicidal teen and child years.

Do i think minors should be on this site? No. People should allow themselves to see if they can grow out of it or if their problems are temporary. Even many permanent issues I had at those ages I've grown to accept and they no longer fuel my suicidal ideation. Ideally, I'd gatekeep anyone below 25 from being here given their brains aren't fully developed, but to tell someone who is forced into adulthood before they are developmentally read but not allowed to seek suicide is wrong.

 

[UmbraDweller]

I think the first case could have been prevented definitely if the parents and/or school intervened properly.

It's definitely not the first time a kid has committed suicide because of bullying, and unfortunately I don't expect it to be the last time.


The second case seems curious though, a 6 year old kid understanding the implications of suicide?
You have the original source for that article?

Yeah it really catched my eye. Here is the original source: https://www.suicidecleanup.com/youngest-suicide/

 

[locked*n*loaded]

>25 years. That's where the scientific data points as to when the human mind finishes development.

I feel it's, frankly, stupid to kill yourself over relationship break-ups, or for failing grades in school. There are probably other examples where I'd think ctb would be inappropriate, but I'd have to hear and evaluate it on a case by case basis. I am NOT an antinatalist.

 

[BardBarrie]

If they're below 25 then no, unless they have either a terminal illness or a non-recoverable debilitating/painful disease, in which case I think they should at least have an option for Assisted Dying/Euthanasia.

Once someone is 25 though? Their frontal cortex has fully developed by then; they're truly "adults" at that point. I think at that point people — even if in good or "normal" health — should at least be given the option to "apply" for Assisted Dying/Euthanasia.

Regardless of age, all volunteers should have to go through a stringent and lengthy safeguarding assessment process to minimise foul play (e.g. family coercion etc) and obviously they can back out at any time.

Perhaps an arbitrary waiting period of a few years from the moment of approval, to make sure the decision isn't impulsive(?).

At the end of the day there's always going to be people who choose to die, so if we can at least give said people a humane, dignified and "safe" alternative then I think that is ultimately the more ethical choice for a society.