Discussion Let’s talk about interpersonal relationships.

[WithTheFlow]

I'll be 23 soon, and this úntermensch hasn't had a friend since middle school; those which I had were very weak relationships, at best (might even be more accurate to say that we were merely friendly acquaintances). By friend I mean someone who positively interacts with you as an end in itself (they interact with you out of the enjoyment of it) when they could reasonably be doing something else (someone who interacts with you at work, for instance, doesn't count if they don't interact with you outside of work. They simply don't have many options to choose from when at work). Family also doesn't count. Online friends can be included, but for me, I've never had an online relationship which isn't cloaked by layers of anonymity. It is much easier to appreciate someone who you don't know much about; you fill in the gaps with positive images from your imagination.

I know interpersonal relationships aren't the end-all be-all of a good life, but they are a requisite, in my opinion.

———

Well, well, well… beat me to it.

Thread 'Life is meaningless without emotional connections or you contributing to society in some way'
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...u-contributing-to-society-in-some-way.175920/

 

[Death Diviner]

I'll be 23 soon, and this úntermensch hasn't had a friend since middle school; those which I had were very weak relationships, at best (might even be more accurate to say that we were merely friendly acquaintances). By friend I mean someone who positively interacts with you as an end in itself (they interact with you out of the enjoyment of it) when they could reasonably be doing something else (someone who interacts with you at work, for instance, doesn't count if they don't interact with you outside of work. They simply don't have many options to choose from when at work). Family also doesn't count. Online friends can be included, but for me, I've never had an online relationship which isn't cloaked by layers of anonymity. It is much easier to appreciate someone who you don't know much about; you fill in the gaps with positive images from your imagination.

I know interpersonal relationships aren't the end-all be-all of a good life, but they are a requisite, in my opinion.

———

Well, well, well… beat me to it.

Thread 'Life is meaningless without emotional connections or you contributing to society in some way'
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...u-contributing-to-society-in-some-way.175920/

Upon looking at your criteria of what friendships are, I can't stop but try to reflect on my very own relationships. I do not have the ability to know whether one actually likes interacting with me, hence I rarely initiate social encounters. When I do... it's crippling, it spawns a feeling of desperation I do not like. It is as if the person I asked for a social encounter with only accepts out of pity. And so all my friendships, if that's what the relationships are, are characterized by this lack of interaction. As such, I've come to the point that I get a temporary sense of significance when a "friend" tries to use me. These flawed relationships contribute to my greater existential crisis.

 

[lamargue]

By friend I mean someone who positively interacts with you as an end in itself (they interact with you out of the enjoyment of it) when they could reasonably be doing something else (someone who interacts with you at work, for instance, doesn't count if they don't interact with you outside of work

the very idea of friends as ends in themselves is premised by the social contract as preferable to isolation, and also encouraged by the inveterate desire to enter into social relationships as promoted by the social order
you also acquire a great number of benefits from such interactions, most of which are purely social rewards which can yield material payoffs in the future

an environment which can facilitate the growth of your social network by way of the shared assumption in social benefits sounds like something which you would prefer

 

[-nobodyknows-]

This may not be the best place to be asking those sorts of questions…

 

[escape_from_hell]

You are still young. Not saying there is anything great ahead, there may be of course.
You can build up a network of friends, loving relationships over years etc, and it could all dissolve.

Happened to me SEVERAL times.
Built up friend group in a career after shitty loser high school time (though I had friends, the loser-type friends at the time in that decade), along with a relationship. Dissolved.
Built up friend group during university, along with a long term relationship. Fizzled as relocated for work.
Built up deep connective friend group during career. Friend literally just decided they hated me in the middle of me giving them a tour of an exotic foreign place and refused to tell me why they hated me. Had friend group in city I liked. Loving relationship of seven years. All dissolved during COVID.

ZERO friends since. Almost made a friend, someone who claimed to be suicidal at some point by the way--we'd get along swimmingly, surely they know the struggle right?--that intentionally inflicted emotional torment on me (they said it was in fact on purpose, they did a real life 'ghosting' thing just to harm me for several weeks, then spread nasty rumours about me at a school I was attending just to ensure I was fucked).

At this point the rejections are creating no shit PHYSICAL pain. Like, severe muscle issues, popping ligaments and joints, serious fucking pain. It is psychosomatic cuz it went away temporarily when I thought I was making that 'almost' friend.

So, just cuz you make friends or loving relationships...They may not be 'the real thing' unless you are worthy like most human beings.
A 'like' on social media could legit be less transitory and more meaningful. YEARS of deep connection mean shit when at the end you are left in pain wondering why you are such worthless fucking scum.

IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE ALONE NOW consider whether it is worth it. Anhedonia from losing what you thought were rich connections etc blows. I cannot enjoy music, art, anything created by other humans even food because I feel so fucking alienated. If you are able to 'neet' and enjoy movies and music and shit like that, consider being happy as a loner while you can milk it!!!

 

[enduringwinter]

It depends on the type of person you are tbh. All lifelong friendship I know are incredibly messy behind the scenes eg. A and B are friends, B was dating C but then C married A and then B kept marrying and divorcing and also named their severely autistic child after C. I could not handle that shite. I'm more the type who genuinely prefer to spend time alone, I make friends then go off when paths diverse or I simply don't like them anymore, then after a while I make new friends etc.

Tl;dr not a requisite, stop thinking about it

 

[WithTheFlow]

This thread, as expected, is analogous to wealthy people telling homeless people that wealth won't solve all their problems. I think there are benefits to not being incapable of forming meaningful social relations. Yes, I would feel much better if I had a choice in the matter; I may decide to spend my life alone with the knowledge that I'm capable of spending my life with people. As it currently stands, I'm incapable of forming lasting social relationships, so I'm involuntarily ostracized. This is not a healthy lifestyle.

 

[redkitsune98]

Loneliness is a struggle. Let's chat and see if we can form a bond, I'll support you through it

 

[enduringwinter]

This thread, as expected, is analogous to wealthy people telling homeless people that wealth won't solve all their problems. I think there are benefits to not being incapable of forming meaningful social relations. Yes, I would feel much better if I had a choice in the matter; I may decide to spend my life alone with the knowledge that I'm capable of spending my life with people. As it currently stands, I'm incapable of forming lasting social relationships, so I'm involuntarily ostracized. This is not a healthy lifestyle.

You are very young I'm 10 years older and been ostracised in many different environments, no need to feel doomed over "no lasting relationship" that early if at all. It'd suddenly feel easier to keep reaching out and maintain connection when you're in a very pecarious situation such as being homeless, because then you really are desperate for help. Been there.

 

[escape_from_hell]

This thread, as expected, is analogous to wealthy people telling homeless people that wealth won't solve all their problems.

Think of it more like I'm a degenerate homeless that won the lottery and immediate blew it all on drugs and racecars and was right back to being homeless again a few months later. That makes being homeless the second time way, way more awful, because you know you fundamentally do not have the class or soul of a healthy human to be able to not be gutter shit.

As others have pointed out, you are still young. It's just too early to tell if you have a socially acceptable human soul yet.
I did not and paid a heavier price for trying to fake it till I make it type scheme. It fell apart and now I cannot even enjoy art and am aware that every human is so fundamentally of a higher class than I that even fake courtesy at a check-out counter cannot be appreciated and causes intense dysphoria.

Hard to say if you are a true pariah or not but some early clues for me would be things like not vibing with the latest pop hits and so on. Like if the latest Bieber, Gaga, Taylor Swift, Beyonce, or mumble rap jam is playing and it does not reverberate and rejuvenate your soul. Most normal humans will either feel incredible connected love through those pop jams OR be part of a subculture and really feel death metal, or some genre of hip-hop or whatever and find their tribe and bliss out with their newfound tribe.
If you find you are into some kinda art like Harry Pottery novels, or anime, or some genre of music, you are WAY ahead of the game and can probably start vibing with people online now and I recommend you do so ASAP. Same goes for hobbies or activities if you like swimming, video games, or even something meta like complaining about capitalism on reddit you will have an instant family.

Try not to let yourself get to my age (40s) in a loner state. Was always EXTREMELY introverted and LOVED solitude and all that. But in complete isolation for a long, long time now and it is fucking with physical health.

That's why I say IF you enjoy anything, even just sitting in a room crying, or playing video games, try to HOLD ONTO IT and practice all that gratitude woo because when you inevitably find your tribe, the heartbreak of rejection at some later point may cause severe anhedonia like it did for me (but only if you are also fundamentally scum like me, but in all probability you are fundamentally a good human).