Discussion Legal connundrums of being committed.

[Forever Sleep]

I have to say that I haven't had the experience of being committed or sectioned to a psyche ward. (Thanfully.)

I've watched some documentaries on it though and I've read through some people's experiences here. I'm sure sometimes, it can actually help. Still, I can't help but be frightened by some experiences. Just how quickly you can lose your rights if it is deemed you are mentally unstable.

This just got me thinking- presuming this is all against your will: Do they need to prove you are mentally ill to hold you in a psychiatric facility? CAN they even prove someone is insane?

It almost seems like a regular arrest to me! Police can't hold people indefinitely without evidence. Even suspected murderers I assume they need to set free if there is no evidence to raise a charge. (You'd hope they'd keep an eye on them though...) So- can doctors/psychiatrists/therapists? Does their word automatically trump yours? Why are we any less sane than a suspected murderer or rapist or peodophile?

I know this would never come to pass but my mind started running with it... Presuming you were taken into a psychiatric facility in spite of protesting it and they couldn't PROVE you were mentally ill- yet they still kept you there. Isn't that kidnap and false imprisonment? If they force you take drugs that you don't agree to (and I have seen this in documentaries- people being held down and injected because they refused to take their meds,) is that not Munchausen syndrome by proxy? If they can't PROVE what is wrong with you and they push a whole load of drugs on you against your will- that possibly cause you more harm- that's abuse surely?

I know it's excessively dramatic thinking. Plus- I don't doubt that some people do benefit from treatment and perhaps do need an intervention if their behaviour is clearly a symptom of psychosis. Still- how can they tell? How much power does the psychiatric patient have if they are deemed insane and irrational? I guess it just scares me that you can suddenly find yourself in a kind of prison for not necessarily having done anything wrong.

What are your experiences and thinking on this though? Do you think it's a positive thing that they can commit someone to stop them harming themselves? Should there be more assessment involved? Should it be optional? Should you be able to sue if they take away your freedom and make you more ill if they can't prove you were ill in the first place?

Don't get me wrong- I'm ALL for protecting OTHER people- if someone is displaying homicidal tendancies- they ought to be held until they can be deemed safe for release. I'm not saying suicidal people shouldn't be 'helped' either- I'm just saying I find it frightening that this 'help' isn't optional... That there doesn't seem to be much in the way of assessment (at least initially.) Just that you must be crazy for having these thoughts and if needs be- you need to be locked up to stop you acting on them.

 

[Wannagonow]

Lots to think about. I have been in a psychiatric hospital many times. Also had stays in a regular hospital on a psych floor. Each time I've gone have been involuntary. Sent by doctor or therapist and once by police who were needlessly sent to my house by a nervous therapist.

As soon as I arrive, my self-protective mechanism takes over. I immediately start working on "acting fine" and basically lying my way out. The strip search is degrading. I'm already on meds, but they will always change something. No matter what- without seeing you, they change your meds. Your thought about them "proving" you are in need of a stay. Legally they don't need to prove it for 72 hours. I have a real problem with that.

I've never been there for having any kind of psychotic break. Been there only because I actively wanted to ctb. As you mentioned- I also think there should be some basic assessment prior to admission.

My experience is that a minimum stay is a 72-hr hold. You can't leave. You have NO privacy while there. Exterior doors are alarmed. There are 15 minutes checks 24/7. You will do "art therapy", I'm overweight so I always have to see a nutritionist. Generally you meet with a therapist once.

At the end of the 72 hours you meet with a roundtable of social workers, therapists and a psychiatrist. (very intimidating). Most of which have not interacted with you during your stay. It's based on input from counselors and maybe one therapist. You assure them you no longer want to hurt yourself and you go home. If you indicate otherwise, your stay is extended.

I can only speak from my experience- but unfortunately what I've learned from doing this so many times is how to present myself as "okay" once there. I think there are components which could be very helpful to some. It's a safe place for most- especially those that may be having a psychotic break and not able to function well.

Full Disclosure: most the time I did my 72 hours and out. There have also been times I wasn't well and had stays up to 6 weeks, followed by weeks of "partial outpatient". This is a much better program- in part because you go home at the end of the day and the doors aren't alarmed.

I hope some of this was what you were looking for. I feel like I've layed out my whole life story. This is at least how it applies in the state I live in.

 

[Maudlin]

This is at least how it applies in the state I live in.

Mine, too.

If you're really slick you can sometimes talk your way out of the 72 hour hold, early... I managed that, once.

I find it frightening that this 'help' isn't optional... That there doesn't seem to be much in the way of assessment (at least initially.)

The first time you have your "rights" stripped away completely you can't help but realize the fiction you've been living in all your life... and the brutal, eternal truth makes itself clear.

Might makes right.

The fact is you only ever rely on "social graces", or the force you can exert. It takes only an accusation to be held for a crime, or to be held for "health"... mental or otherwise. You can be rounded up at the whim of the powers that be at any time.

The laws you think they have to adhere to are just lines written on paper. Think long and hard about this:

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Many such cases. Many times more in the "mental health" industry. Watch (or better yet, read) "One flew over the cockoos nest" and learn a little bit about the author. He was a unique individual, and knew how to make cold truth seem like entertaining fiction.