Venting I've never wanted to live indefinitely

[kirillbledny]

When I realized at 13 that you can directly cause your own death, not just by catching a disease as I thought before that, that's what I wanted to do. Even back then my logic was "oh well, some people just die young." I thought I'd be dead by 16, then 18, then 30. I never once in my life intended to live for decades to come. That's why it's so dumb to me that my family never managed their expectations regarding my mental health. If my child attempted suicide at 13, then 15, then 17, I think I'd probably accept that he might die by suicide at some point in his life, rather than endlessly coping and thinking that it just takes the right medication or the right therapist with the right word choice, and suddenly everything is gonna be fine.

Does anyone else feel the same? Suicidal thoughts aren't even distressing to me, living is. It's normal, it's something I've always wanted and accepted a decade ago. So I just can't relate to everyone around me acting like it's some kind of horrible event to be prevented.

 

[pepperfarmer]

People are ultimately the product of their environment when they're kids and teenagers. Why are so many teenagers horrible, do disgusting things, become bullies, and so forth? Because they grew up around an environment that encouraged that. I think the same is with suicidal teenagers. Put a kid in a bleak situation, and they'll inevitably think about having a way out.

If I had a kid that wanted to kill themselves at that age, I'd probably blame myself for putting them in such a situation and not them. Same thing if I found out they did something horrible, I'd think I messed up and didn't educate them properly, rather than think my kid is just evil. But it takes a lot of balls to take responsibility for something like that, so a lot of parents will just never accept either situation.

It's really horrible that you were put in a situation like that so early on. I think most of us can relate, me included.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Yep, completely agree.

The suffering that this life naturally contains, is the sad and upsetting thing. I don't really find death upsetting at all.

And the fact that so many people in society, seem to be completely on board with the idea that suffering is normal and should be embraced... again I find this bizarre. Life is not so valuable, that people should be forced to stay here and suffer. There is no evidence that this life matters to that degree. Objectively speaking, there is no evidence that life matters at all. People find subjective meaning, and that is all. But then the majority impose that invented meaning on everyone else in society, and force everyone to get on board with that view. So we are stuck with the brainwashed views of this life, that the majority subscribe to... most of whom are just unthinking sheep who go along with everything in this life without questioning practically anything.

The moment you start seriously questioning accepted norms in this life... the whole web of lies starts to open up. And you can't go back to being naïve and dumb anymore. You can't swallow all of the BS in this life anymore. Life just becomes an untenable position (in the long run).

 

[kirillbledny]

And the fact that so many people in society, seem to be completely on board with the idea that suffering is normal and should be embraced... again I find this bizarre. Life is not so valuable, that people should be forced to stay here and suffer. There is no evidence that this life matters to that degree. Objectively speaking, there is no evidence that life matters at all. People find subjective meaning, and that is all. But then the majority impose that invented meaning on everyone else in society, and force everyone to get on board with that view. So we are stuck with the brainwashed views of this life, that the majority subscribe to... most of whom are just unthinking sheep who go along with everything in this life without questioning practically anything.

The moment you start seriously questioning accepted norms in this life... the whole web of lies starts to open up. And you can't go back to being naïve and dumb anymore. You can't swallow all of the BS in this life anymore. Life just becomes an untenable position (in the long run).

I totally agree, everyone starts with the premise that every life, no matter how miserable, has intrinsic value, which is not an objective fact but a subjective philosophy one may or may not agree with. I won't try to convince someone who loves life to change their mind, so why is everyone obsessed with the idea that the suicidal are inherently wrong or mentally ill? If Saturday morning coffee with your s/o is enough to make you live, good for you, but don't try to impose that on everyone. There's an insane amount of paternalism involved in how society treats people like us.

But it takes a lot of balls to take responsibility for something like that, so a lot of parents will just never accept either situation.

Yep, it's interesting to see it play out, because anyone who was involved in my abuse shies away from it, or says how my father actually loved me etc, and the people who weren't are able to clearly see it was an abusive and harmful environment to grow up in. It easier to slap some words on it than accept that one was responsible for their child attempting suicide.

 

[pepperfarmer]

Yep, completely agree.

The suffering that this life naturally contains, is the sad and upsetting thing. I don't really find death upsetting at all.

And the fact that so many people in society, seem to be completely on board with the idea that suffering is normal and should be embraced... again I find this bizarre. Life is not so valuable, that people should be forced to stay here and suffer. There is no evidence that this life matters to that degree. Objectively speaking, there is no evidence that life matters at all. People find subjective meaning, and that is all. But then the majority impose that invented meaning on everyone else in society, and force everyone to get on board with that view. So we are stuck with the brainwashed views of this life, that the majority subscribe to... most of whom are just unthinking sheep who go along with everything in this life without questioning practically anything.

The moment you start seriously questioning accepted norms in this life... the whole web of lies starts to open up. And you can't go back to being naïve and dumb anymore. You can't swallow all of the BS in this life anymore. Life just becomes an untenable position (in the long run).

If someone finds life to be so valuable, then they should be compelled to make it worth living. It's absurd to me how shallow the attachment to life is for so many people, where they are content to let others live bleak, meaningless lives, and only find scandal when they are prematurely ended. Where is the scandal for everything else? Where is the outrage?

 

[Captive_Mind515]

If someone finds life to be so valuable, then they should be compelled to make it worth living. It's absurd to me how shallow the attachment to life is for so many people, where they are content to let others live bleak, meaningless lives, and only find scandal when they are prematurely ended. Where is the scandal for everything else? Where is the outrage?

A lot of people see suicide as an overreaction. The amount of times I have heard or read someone's reaction to a suicide as basically being shocked that X-person would do that…

That's why many people like to say "If only we knew they were feeling like that" Because deep down they don't think anyone has justification to feel that way, and they desperately wish they could get into their mind and convince them to accept their suffering like everyone else.

But for me, this speaks more to the idea that many people in society like to downplay or trivialise suffering - especially suffering they don't personally have to experience.

But just more generally, they have normalised and accepted suffering in their mind. So someone opting out to avoid suffering, is a strange and unacceptable idea to them. Which is why it's also portrayed as weakness and a moral failing by many people as well… they think we have some societal duty to endure the pain. Like it's some contract we've all signed and we're breaking our contract or something…

But it really ought to be up to the individual to decide what they can endure. Or what they want to endure.

It's one thing to take that view of your own life. But to try impose that view on everyone else, and as you say become outraged or create a scandal essentially because other people have the nerve to view this life differently… I think that's the major problem we face.

Suicide has always been an act of rebellion. If we lived in a more fair and rational society, it would not have to be like that.

 

[kirillbledny]

That's why many people like to say "If only we knew they were feeling like that" Because deep down they don't think anyone has justification to feel that way, and they desperately wish they could get into their mind and convince them to accept their suffering like everyone else.

Yeah, agreed. If people want to prevent suicide, they should first focus on preventing suffering, not force people who suffer to stay alive.

So someone opting out to avoid suffering, is a strange and unacceptable idea to them. Which is why it's also portrayed as weakness and a moral failing by many people as well… they think we have some societal duty to endure the pain. Like it's some contract we've all signed and we're breaking our contract or something…

I think it's because if they admit that suicide is a real option for to avoid suffering, they will have to face the fact they didn't actually need to suffer, and think "why haven't I killed myself even at my lowest?" It's a kind of "I went through it, so you do too" mindset. I'm told by relatives that I have to live, I have to work, there's no other option, etc., which is just a blatant lie. If they tell themselves that everyone has to suffer and there is no way out, it feels easier to digest. Once you accept suicide as a real option of getting out, there is no way back.

 

[pepperfarmer]

The suffering that this life naturally contains, is the sad and upsetting thing. I don't really find death upsetting at all.

Honestly, I'd argue a lot of the suffering people go through is pointlessly excessive.

Sure, suffering is a natural part of life. You lose relationships, go through grief, encounter setbacks, are mistreated, so on and so forth. Sometimes you're part of the problem, and, in a good environment, you suffer the consequences, learn to do better and move on.

But I think a lot of the suffering of so many people is very systematically infused into wider society and encouraged that at a certain point, it stops being 'just life' and is just entirely gratuitous and negligently permitted. So many of the issues that drive people to suicide are often outside the control of the suicidal person, yet easily solvable by outside forces that, quite simply, can't care enough to fix them. There's a point where it stops being a part of life and starts being plain injustice, whether that's at the hands of some 56-year-old father too unbothered to go to an anger management workshop or a nepobaby living off of sweatshops.