Venting It’s tiresome when people push their unsolicited “advice” onto suicidal people.

[FuneralCry]

To me this is just one of the things that comes across as being so insensitive, I personally cannot stand toxic positivity and the fact is that nowhere in this world, not even a suicide forum offers any true escape from pro-lifers forcing their unsolicited "advice" and toxic positivity onto other people. It comes across as insensitive when suicidal people are told that "it gets better, you need help, just talk to someone and of course the best one, you are only young". Statements like this are harmful as they invalidate people's wish to die and they are just hollow, empty statements that are dismissive of the cruel and harsh reality of this existence. No matter what suicide is always a logical option in this world, as in death there are no suffering and no problems, the wish to die should always be respected as after all suicide is a human right.

The existence of life truly is such an awful thing, and it just shows the lack of awareness and compassion that humans have when they continue to push these insensitive beliefs, but I could never be surprised that people act in such a way. Wanting to die could never be an "illness" that someone needs to be helped from, instead the problem lies in existence itself and only death could solve what is the true problem for me, I could never understand the appeal to being trapped in this chaotic and hellish world. The suffering that exists in this world is very real, and only death can truly offer relief from it.

 

[SentimentalTrip]

I agree. I kind of understand why people say these things, but to a depressed person hearing these things is just infuriating.

"It gets better."

Says who? I've been hearing that for YEARS and it has only gotten worse.

 

[silence of death]

I don't feel like it's so insensitive, maybe a little selfish, personnaly i like giving advice and wishing good luck to anyone who's in dispair or want to CTB, by trying to help them feel better even if it's for a short time, i find value in that

we all need and deserve affection, and it feels good to be heard, listened and receiving positive energy

 

[LittleJem]

The simple fact that people post on this forum rather than just go and CTB without posting does show some people are not entirely in a hurry to CTB, and lots of people agonise for ages. Whether it is SI or a worry about upsetting their family, many people think about whether to CTB for a long time. So in the meantime, why not give a little hope where it seems appropriate or if it seems someone is rushing a decision, has a situational reason or is young and might not have tried things that could help life get better.

At the same time, chronic mental illness does not always get better and is not always possible to treat. Or people with other conditions that are not going to get better. So yes, 'it gets better' is bullshit. But it could be said that research shows that a certain percentage of people get remission on a certain medication for example, or a certain percentage of people do benefit from therapy. There are also personal anecdotes and reviews from people who do feel better for example on particular medications. There is the scientific research out there that shows that for some people mental illness does get better, at least for a while.

Like on my medication currently, buproprion, some people get remission for six months, some have efficacy for ten years. I've only been on it eight days, so I don't know what it will do for me. I have gone from 3 out of 10 quality of life to 3.5 so far. I can walk down the street with more energy, perform basic tasks and speak more easily. I am not weeping in the street. My mind is still torture, but I am going to give it more time to see if it gets better, as some people say it takes eight weeks. I am currently choosing to endure more days of suffering to see if it gets better. Despite the fact that I am mid-40s and my life is absolutely ruined by mental illness for years and years. My life at the moment is cockroaches, key workers, loneliness, pointless and hopeless. But if the medication kicks in perhaps I will not feel this way.

With mental illness, I would say that if someone gets the right medication then life can improve and it is worth encouraging people to try before they give up. Not so much in the situations where someone has tried everything - medications etc for years, but if they haven't. Like I don't want to patronise long-standing people here by saying 'have you tried medication', 'have you tried therapy' because the majority of us have and we haven't had any help from it.

As for 'in death there is no suffering and no problems', of course we all hope for this, but the truth is that none of us know what there is after death. Whether reincarnation, an afterlife or absolutely nothing. So how can you know so certainly.

With mental illness, the thing that really pisses me off is that nardil and parnate are barely if at all prescribed, because they are from what I've read very effective medications. Because they react with things like cheese and red wine, they are not prescribed, but I would not give a shit about giving up cheese and red wine to be free of depression. If anyone knows anyone that prescribes them or how to source them in the UK please pm me.

It also pisses me off that buproprion is not prescribed in the UK, even though it is widely used in USA for depression.

Psychiatry should listen to how much people are suffering and treat them with the most effective medications and patients should have some say in what medications they are prescribed.

That's my rant over. Back to my only salvation which is television.

 

[SexyIncél]

So in the meantime, why not give a little hope where it seems appropriate or if it seems someone is rushing a decision, has a situational reason or is young and might not have tried things that could help life get better.

Yeah, as I'm sure you know, we try to give real hope:

1. lazy hope: give depressed people a smile and explain they need to pay someone for actual listening
2. real hope: walk together through our problems, have diverse opinions (ok, including some unhelpful ones, can't win 'em all)

And total efilists like FC have an important place here. Ironically, sometimes those with zero hope are exactly the ones who inspire hope. Because maybe you're like, "Ok I'm certainly not THERE yet". Diversity of non-mainstream opinion helps. (Those seeking mainstream opinion can find it anywhere else)

With mental illness, the thing that really pisses me off is that nardil and parnate are barely if at all prescribed, because they are from what I've read very effective medications. Because they react with things like cheese and red wine, they are not prescribed, but I would not give a shit about giving up cheese and red wine to be free of depression. If anyone knows anyone that prescribes them or how to source them in the UK please pm me.

It also pisses me off that buproprion is not prescribed in the UK, even though it is widely used in USA for depression.

Psychiatry should listen to how much people are suffering and treat them with the most effective medications and patients should have some say in what medications they are prescribed.

I'm sorry to hear that, it's ridiculous. I don't know the details of brexit, but I'm guessing boop (buproprion) would've been obtainable if UK was still fully in the EU

 

[Vizzy]

The simple fact that people post on this forum rather than just go and CTB without posting does show some people are not entirely in a hurry to CTB, and lots of people agonise for ages. Whether it is SI or a worry about upsetting their family, many people think about whether to CTB for a long time. So in the meantime, why not give a little hope where it seems appropriate or if it seems someone is rushing a decision, has a situational reason or is young and might not have tried things that could help life get better.

At the same time, chronic mental illness does not always get better and is not always possible to treat. Or people with other conditions that are not going to get better. So yes, 'it gets better' is bullshit. But it could be said that research shows that a certain percentage of people get remission on a certain medication for example, or a certain percentage of people do benefit from therapy. There are also personal anecdotes and reviews from people who do feel better for example on particular medications. There is the scientific research out there that shows that for some people mental illness does get better, at least for a while.

Like on my medication currently, buproprion, some people get remission for six months, some have efficacy for ten years. I've only been on it eight days, so I don't know what it will do for me. I have gone from 3 out of 10 quality of life to 3.5 so far. I can walk down the street with more energy, perform basic tasks and speak more easily. I am not weeping in the street. My mind is still torture, but I am going to give it more time to see if it gets better, as some people say it takes eight weeks. I am currently choosing to endure more days of suffering to see if it gets better. Despite the fact that I am mid-40s and my life is absolutely ruined by mental illness for years and years. My life at the moment is cockroaches, key workers, loneliness, pointless and hopeless. But if the medication kicks in perhaps I will not feel this way.

With mental illness, I would say that if someone gets the right medication then life can improve and it is worth encouraging people to try before they give up. Not so much in the situations where someone has tried everything - medications etc for years, but if they haven't. Like I don't want to patronise long-standing people here by saying 'have you tried medication', 'have you tried therapy' because the majority of us have and we haven't had any help from it.

As for 'in death there is no suffering and no problems', of course we all hope for this, but the truth is that none of us know what there is after death. Whether reincarnation, an afterlife or absolutely nothing. So how can you know so certainly.

With mental illness, the thing that really pisses me off is that nardil and parnate are barely if at all prescribed, because they are from what I've read very effective medications. Because they react with things like cheese and red wine, they are not prescribed, but I would not give a shit about giving up cheese and red wine to be free of depression. If anyone knows anyone that prescribes them or how to source them in the UK please pm me.

It also pisses me off that buproprion is not prescribed in the UK, even though it is widely used in USA for depression.

Psychiatry should listen to how much people are suffering and treat them with the most effective medications and patients should have some say in what medications they are prescribed.

That's my rant over. Back to my only salvation which is television.

They have recovery section to utilize, if they are not ready to ctb and still want to recover they can go to recovery section

Talking about recovery and giving advice in the suicide section will make people more suicidal and frustrating

Don't give advice or try to change people in this section!

 

[leavingsoon99]

They have recovery section to utilize, if they are not ready to ctb and still want to recover they can go to recovery section

Talking about recovery and giving advice in the suicide section will make people more suicidal and frustrating

Don't give advice or try to change people in this section!

Thank you, SO much for this!!!

 

[unnormal9]

Yeah, especially saying stupid shit like:
"have you tried therapy", meds, etc etc. this, that

Have you tried shutin' the fuck up? it's easy, unless you prefer getting your lips stitched up instead and your voice box crushed.
Want to permeate that shit? Go to the decrepit site of degenerates: reddit's r/suicidewatch and go be a life warrior there.

Yeah, as I'm sure you know, we try to give real hope:

1. lazy hope: give depressed people a smile and explain they need to pay someone for actual listening
2. real hope: walk together through our problems, have diverse opinions (ok, including some unhelpful ones, can't win 'em all)

And total efilists like FC have an important place here. Ironically, sometimes those with zero hope are exactly the ones who inspire hope. Because maybe you're like, "Ok I'm certainly not THERE yet". Diversity of non-mainstream opinion helps. (Those seeking mainstream opinion can find it anywhere else)


I'm sorry to hear that, it's ridiculous. I don't know the details of brexit, but I'm guessing boop (buproprion) would've been obtainable if UK was still fully in the EU

1. real hope: give money and respect and offer the choice to die peacefully. to survive as a disabled.

Yeah, as I'm sure you know, we try to give real hope:

you can't. real solutions require tangible actions.
want to offer chicken feed talking dump it in that recovery section.

 

[SexyIncél]

you can't. real solutions require tangible actions.
want to offer chicken feed talking dump it in that recovery section.

To be clear: I actually take tangible actions irl. You think I just shoot off my mouth online? In addition to speech acts, I also try to alter the material and social worlds. To help out

Basically OPs dictate the prio. If someone wants ctb, I literally just analyzed it using multiple tools; no touchy-feely hope/change. If someone wants relationship thoughts, less boomstick more touchy-feely

Reducing suffering is the name of the game here. People don't get it. Everyone pretends this place is the gateway to death. No, it's a last station before death. Buses go either direction

 

[LittleJem]

Talking about recovery and giving advice in the suicide section will make people more suicidal and frustrating

Don't give advice or try to change people in this section!

I usually just advise people on their methods actually, like if they have got fhe wrong pills or the wrong knot.

I haven't in general seen anyone here say platitudes like 'it gets better'. Not this section or the recovery section. The OP post is just not reflective of most of the people on this forum.

The actual percentage of people who ctb on this forum in either section is pretty low. Lot's of people think about it and talk about it, fewer do it.

I'm sorry to hear that, it's ridiculous. I don't know the details of brexit, but I'm guessing boop (buproprion) would've been obtainable if UK was still fully in the EU

it's not about the EU. It's about our NHS/NICE guidelines versus FDA approved medicines. It is bullshit. They don't prescribe it here cos of seizure risk, but if you prescribe it carefully ie not to people with risk of seizures eg with bulimia then the seizure risk is lower than olanzapine which they prescribe to everybody.


I would like there to be general honesty when there is no or hardly any hope of recovery. I wouldn't want to say it directly to anyone as some people do still choose to exist, but in these cases it is about how to bear the suffering, if it can be borne and what if anything can provide any quality of life or comfort.

Psychiatry and mental health industry generally lie to everyone, even when there is no hope of things getting better. So I do understand the anger and feel it myself every time I encounter this bullshit. Honest psychiatry would acknowledge the suffering and offer assisted dying.

 

[ringo99]

I can understand therapy working with minors feeling suicidal but adults are much more rational and have a good sense of where they're at when it comes to ctb.

 

[chocolatebar]

Yeah, especially saying stupid shit like:
"have you tried therapy", meds, etc etc. this, that

Then you say that you have tried, and they come with the brilliant "you have to keep trying!"

Then you mention how many times you tried, and they come with the even more brilliant "but you was just unlucky and didn't find the right professional"

 

[TAW122]

I share the same sentiments ever since I became a legal adult, it just didn't help. No amount of medication or therapy will change my reality nor solve the problems causing me to want to CTB as well as life itself. In fact, I've stopped discussing about my problems with people IRL and what not because I know they will not solve them. For those who would offer tangible advice relevant to the problems I wish to solve, sure, I may open my ears to receive them, but as soon as they start pushing pro-life drivel and platitudes, I stop listening.

 

[SilentSadness]

Of course the pro-life platitudes are drivel, you're right. It's exhausting for people to force them upon others, not because they care at all but because they want to feel smart or heroic. It's pathetic, and we all know this, so you're not alone in thinking that. But unsolicited advice is exactly what this world is about. It's just a load of selfish people trying to prove their superiority to others, not knowing or caring about the effects of what they're saying and doing.

 

[unnormal9]

No amount of medication or therapy will change my reality nor solve the problems causing me to want to CTB as well as life itself.

Truth too. It took my drs./psychiatrists all only 3 years to realize this.

 

[unnormal9]

To be clear: I actually take tangible actions irl. You think I just shoot off my mouth online? In addition to speech acts, I also try to alter the material and social worlds. To help out

Basically OPs dictate the prio. If someone wants ctb, I literally just analyzed it using multiple tools; no touchy-feely hope/change. If someone wants relationship thoughts, less boomstick more touchy-feely

Reducing suffering is the name of the game here. People don't get it. Everyone pretends this place is the gateway to death. No, it's a last station before death. Buses go either direction

Say 'we' I think of 'them', case workers and shit, I refer to them, not you in particular.
And what tangible action can you do for others on this site?

Right.

 

[SexyIncél]

And what tangible action can you do for others on this site?

Right.

You seem to ask that question rhetorically. But why not stick with the question, use some imagination?

Like, a great exercise: list 3 ways to do it

 

[unnormal9]

You seem to ask that question rhetorically. But why not stick with the question, use some imagination?

Like, a great exercise: list 3 ways to do it

Reality answers it only one way.

 

[The anhedonic one]

These do-gooder idiots do not know me. They do not know my pain. They seriously need to stop treating us like children. They seriously need to mind their own fucking business.

The simple fact that people post on this forum rather than just go and CTB without posting does show some people are not entirely in a hurry to CTB, and lots of people agonise for ages. Whether it is SI or a worry about upsetting their family, many people think about whether to CTB for a long time. So in the meantime, why not give a little hope where it seems appropriate or if it seems someone is rushing a decision, has a situational reason or is young and might not have tried things that could help life get better.

At the same time, chronic mental illness does not always get better and is not always possible to treat. Or people with other conditions that are not going to get better. So yes, 'it gets better' is bullshit. But it could be said that research shows that a certain percentage of people get remission on a certain medication for example, or a certain percentage of people do benefit from therapy. There are also personal anecdotes and reviews from people who do feel better for example on particular medications. There is the scientific research out there that shows that for some people mental illness does get better, at least for a while.

Like on my medication currently, buproprion, some people get remission for six months, some have efficacy for ten years. I've only been on it eight days, so I don't know what it will do for me. I have gone from 3 out of 10 quality of life to 3.5 so far. I can walk down the street with more energy, perform basic tasks and speak more easily. I am not weeping in the street. My mind is still torture, but I am going to give it more time to see if it gets better, as some people say it takes eight weeks. I am currently choosing to endure more days of suffering to see if it gets better. Despite the fact that I am mid-40s and my life is absolutely ruined by mental illness for years and years. My life at the moment is cockroaches, key workers, loneliness, pointless and hopeless. But if the medication kicks in perhaps I will not feel this way.

With mental illness, I would say that if someone gets the right medication then life can improve and it is worth encouraging people to try before they give up. Not so much in the situations where someone has tried everything - medications etc for years, but if they haven't. Like I don't want to patronise long-standing people here by saying 'have you tried medication', 'have you tried therapy' because the majority of us have and we haven't had any help from it.

As for 'in death there is no suffering and no problems', of course we all hope for this, but the truth is that none of us know what there is after death. Whether reincarnation, an afterlife or absolutely nothing. So how can you know so certainly.

With mental illness, the thing that really pisses me off is that nardil and parnate are barely if at all prescribed, because they are from what I've read very effective medications. Because they react with things like cheese and red wine, they are not prescribed, but I would not give a shit about giving up cheese and red wine to be free of depression. If anyone knows anyone that prescribes them or how to source them in the UK please pm me.

It also pisses me off that buproprion is not prescribed in the UK, even though it is widely used in USA for depression.

Psychiatry should listen to how much people are suffering and treat them with the most effective medications and patients should have some say in what medications they are prescribed.

That's my rant over. Back to my only salvation which is television.

I hate it here in the UK. I have tried everything med available. Last one was Venlafaxine, effexor. It wasn't working for me after 8 months of taking it. I stopped taking it, the withdrawal effects were horrifying. I no longer bother with meds. But I would definitely give buproprion a try.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Yes, it's somehow crazy, we do not want animals to suffer, they get a mercy shot. But when it comes to human beings suffering so much they don't want to go on living in this cruel world, it becomes a drama and that causes even more pain and suffering for these human beings.

It should be a free decision for everyone how and when we want to leave.

 

[LittleJem]

These do-gooder idiots do not know me. They do not know my pain. They seriously need to stop treating us like children. They seriously need to mind their own fucking business.

I hate it here in the UK. I have tried everything med available. Last one was Venlafaxine, effexor. It wasn't working for me after 8 months of taking it. I stopped taking it, the withdrawal effects were horrifying. I no longer bother with meds. But I would definitely give buproprion a try.

PM me if you want the source for buproprion in the UK. Apparently the withdrawals are less bad in general if you then go off it. It's worth a shot.

Nardil/parnate I can't find sources yet.
And a little vent:

Today a mental health support worker said to me that things can get better, I will just need to put in hard work. He asked if I could imagine myself in two years time. On the back of me saying that I have constant suicidal thoughts, am walking down the street crying and my life has totally disintegrated, and it's been like this for twenty years. What on earth hard work does he think cures mental illness.

I do find this advice upsetting and sometimes it also puts me into a panic, like when key workers act like I can think my way out of mental illness or something. I find it really distressing.

Does he think I have not done my best to fight this mental illness over the years, and does he not realise that after twenty years of it you get to the point where what is the point of fighting it. It's a waiting game on the latest medication at the moment, but today I found myself back in that state where I didn't have motivation to get out of bed and couldn't face walking round doing tasks with the suicidal thoughts. I then took a xanax which calmed me for about 10 minutes then I just fell asleep and burned what I was cooking.

I feel so hopeless that not even xanax gave me a day off this misery. Then he suggested breakfast club meetings and the food bank at a local church so I can go and meet other people. I'm not entirely adverse to it, but I can't see it cheering me up much. Plus the food I have had at such places (like street food) has been just not fresh.

I'm pretty scared at the moment the way the depression is morphing into boredom and loneliness and pointlessness and I don't know how it will keep changing. Like in some ways it has been an improvement to be able to get stuff done, but in other ways this boredom and pointlessness is unpleasant in its own way.

I would rather be a crackhead or a heroin addict than have every day the same and so miserable. I don't really like crack and am scared I would get abused in that situation, and heroin I just tried once but never injected. I just want any kind of break from this misery and nothing gives me a break.

 

[SpiderLink]

To me this is just one of the things that comes across as being so insensitive, I personally cannot stand toxic positivity and the fact is that nowhere in this world, not even a suicide forum offers any true escape from pro-lifers forcing their unsolicited "advice" and toxic positivity onto other people. It comes across as insensitive when suicidal people are told that "it gets better, you need help, just talk to someone and of course the best one, you are only young". Statements like this are harmful as they invalidate people's wish to die and they are just hollow, empty statements that are dismissive of the cruel and harsh reality of this existence. No matter what suicide is always a logical option in this world, as in death there are no suffering and no problems, the wish to die should always be respected as after all suicide is a human right.

The existence of life truly is such an awful thing, and it just shows the lack of awareness and compassion that humans have when they continue to push these insensitive beliefs, but I could never be surprised that people act in such a way. Wanting to die could never be an "illness" that someone needs to be helped from, instead the problem lies in existence itself and only death could solve what is the true problem for me, I could never understand the appeal to being trapped in this chaotic and hellish world. The suffering that exists in this world is very real, and only death can truly offer relief from it.

I agree with u, I get people want to be helpful, but it sucks they keep telling me these things and I'm telling them it hurts yet they still do it. I know they do not wish to harm, but people need to be more empathetic for suicidal people or anyone with a mental illness. It sucks trying to explain to someone that hasn't experienced it, yet invalidates them anyway. People really have to think before they speak, do their research and know what they should be saying to people that are hurting, it's the least someone could do.

I can understand therapy working with minors feeling suicidal but adults are much more rational and have a good sense of where they're at when it comes to ctb.

Exactly, I started feeling this way when I was 15, and it's only gotten worse and I feel much more logical about everything

Then you say that you have tried, and they come with the brilliant "you have to keep trying!"

Then you mention how many times you tried, and they come with the even more brilliant "but you was just unlucky and didn't find the right professional"

Yep, toxic positivity coming right back at ya

Yes, it's somehow crazy, we do not want animals to suffer, they get a mercy shot. But when it comes to human beings suffering so much they don't want to go on living in this cruel world, it becomes a drama and that causes even more pain and suffering for these human beings.

It should be a free decision for everyone how and when we want to leave.

Exactly !!

 

[The anhedonic one]

PM me if you want the source for buproprion in the UK. Apparently the withdrawals are less bad in general if you then go off it. It's worth a shot.

Nardil/parnate I can't find sources yet.
And a little vent:

Today a mental health support worker said to me that things can get better, I will just need to put in hard work. He asked if I could imagine myself in two years time. On the back of me saying that I have constant suicidal thoughts, am walking down the street crying and my life has totally disintegrated, and it's been like this for twenty years. What on earth hard work does he think cures mental illness.

I do find this advice upsetting and sometimes it also puts me into a panic, like when key workers act like I can think my way out of mental illness or something. I find it really distressing.

Does he think I have not done my best to fight this mental illness over the years, and does he not realise that after twenty years of it you get to the point where what is the point of fighting it. It's a waiting game on the latest medication at the moment, but today I found myself back in that state where I didn't have motivation to get out of bed and couldn't face walking round doing tasks with the suicidal thoughts. I then took a xanax which calmed me for about 10 minutes then I just fell asleep and burned what I was cooking.

I feel so hopeless that not even xanax gave me a day off this misery. Then he suggested breakfast club meetings and the food bank at a local church so I can go and meet other people. I'm not entirely adverse to it, but I can't see it cheering me up much. Plus the food I have had at such places (like street food) has been just not fresh.

I'm pretty scared at the moment the way the depression is morphing into boredom and loneliness and pointlessness and I don't know how it will keep changing. Like in some ways it has been an improvement to be able to get stuff done, but in other ways this boredom and pointlessness is unpleasant in its own way.

I would rather be a crackhead or a heroin addict than have every day the same and so miserable. I don't really like crack and am scared I would get abused in that situation, and heroin I just tried once but never injected. I just want any kind of break from this misery and nothing gives me a break.

I'm 59, and have had persistent, untreatable depression since age 7. So I completely understand what you are going through as regards being depressed for such a long time. It is utterly exhausting and soul destroying to say the least. In fact the amount of emotional turmoil that you feel cannot be put into words, and I am so sorry that you are going through this. I can relate all too well to this torment.
As far as mental health workers are concerned, they just don't get it. Unless they have walked in the shoes of a severely depressed person, and lived their life, even just for a day, then they will never truly understand us. Hence why they give out meaningless and demeaning advice, that does not help whatsoever.
I understand that feeling of utter hopelessness: you feel like a hamster on a wheel going round and round, craving change, with no relief in sight. It really does take its toll, especially after so many years.
And yes, it is scary when the depression morphs into boredom, loneliness and pointlessness. I have been that way for longer than I care to admit. I'm so sorry you are going through this too.

I'm not into drugs, but I too have often thought about things like opioids. Both to find some respite from this crushing depression, and also as a means to put myself out of my misery.
Maybe one day I will.
Thank you for offering to provide a source for the buproprion, that is very kind of you, and I appreciate it. Yet I am now at a point in my life where I no longer want to get better. I have been strong for far too long. My fight is over. It has been this way for a while now.
Thank you for your post, and I wish you well in finding some relief - no matter how small - from this dreadful illness.
Take care.