Discussion Is there such a thing as coming to peace with suicidal thoughts and feelings but deciding not to ctb?

[StarryEyed]

Do you think there such a thing as coming to peace with suicidal thoughts and feelings but deciding not to ctb? I just don't think I could ctb for a ton of reasons, most of which is even just the thought scares the crap out of me. But I'm plagued with the thoughts and feelings for half my life now. So it just occurred to me that perhaps another option is just accepting suicidal thoughts and feelings as part of who I am. Is that even possible????

 

[Helvete]

That's where I am now. Constantly have those thoughts and urges and have come to accept them. IMO you become num and I now have zero fear of death. Staring down the barrel of my gun knowing I could easily pull the trigger but I simply don't have the desire to anymore. The thoughts come back regularly but it is definitely possible to just live with it and embrace it, although I still work with those around me to continue to grow and get better mentally. There is hope

 

[Softwind]

It definitely is possible. If you don't wanna ctb, just don't do it.
If these thoughts bother you a lot, you could try going to therapy.

 

[StarryEyed]

That's where I am now. Constantly have those thoughts and urges and have come to accept them. IMO you become num and I now have zero fear of death. Staring down the barrel of my gun knowing I could easily pull the trigger but I simply don't have the desire to anymore. The thoughts come back regularly but it is definitely possible to just live with it and embrace it, although I still work with those around me to continue to grow and get better mentally. There is hope

You got to the point of staring down the barrel? Wow. I'm glad you're here to tell me what I wrote is called hope. I didn't know. Thank you.

It definitely is possible. If you don't wanna ctb, just don't do it.
If these thoughts bother you a lot, you could try going to therapy.

I've done every therapy available. Still doing therapy. That's part of why I get suicidal - I've tried everything and I keep wanting to off myself. So I'm thinking just accepting it as the only remaining option. Thank you for saying it's possible. Mmmmm.... Wow. Something to think about..... Mind you, I've never actually been able to talk about my suicidal thinking in therapy or they'll force meds on me or lock me up. That's why I'm here, to finally talk it out. It really helps!!!

 

[Kalista]

Things aren't always so black and white.

It seems you're already expressing survival instincts. Having the thoughts and feelings to end things but can't out of fear when acting on it. There are people on here that have the materials to leave, but have been around for years since getting it. They just can't do it. They might not necessarily are in peace with it, but the dilemma still exists.
You might also be in limbo -- suicidal, in pain, miserable ,but can't end yourself. Just right in between it all.

So with that, it is possible.

Also, the suicidal thoughts HAVE always been a part of you. It literally is in your own head enough to cause a chain reaction of emotions and feelings. There was a huge enough reason to cause your mind to go down that direction. No matter how much one denies it, that much is true.

You could still try to exit by finding ways to eliminate the survival instinct. No one else is stopping you from doing so.

 

[Helvete]

Take this with a grain of salt, but therapy seems to have very mixed results. I can't go because I do cancer research and need government clearance but I've found that having a close friend or even some random person across the world who you can open up to and talk with is worth so much more! pm always open if you ever need to chat or socialize

 

[StarryEyed]

Things aren't always so black and white.

It seems you're already expressing survival instincts. Having the thoughts and feelings to end things but can't out of fear when acting on it. There are people on here that have the materials to leave, but have been around for years since getting it. They just can't do it. They might not necessarily are in peace with it, but the dilemma still exists.
You might also be in limbo -- suicidal, in pain, miserable ,but can't end yourself. Just right in between it all.

So with that, it is possible.

Also, the suicidal thoughts HAVE always been a part of you. It literally is in your own head enough to cause a chain reaction of emotions and feelings. There was a huge enough reason to cause your mind to go down that direction. No matter how much one denies it, that much is true.

You could still try to exit by finding ways to eliminate the survival instinct. No one else is stopping you from doing so.

Very meaty thoughts!

I like that - I'm in limbo. Maybe I can just accept that. I say I'm ambivalent, but saying I'm in limbo feels like a more concrete place. Yes.

I did try to ctb once by OD. But I realize that's not very reliable and potentially dangerous if unsuccessful. The other forms are too scary.

Eliminating the survival instinct? I'm not sure what that means, but I have taken measures to make sure that if my suffering becomes too much, I will be able to get euthanasia. I've also withdrawn all medical care other than for comfort. So I'm thinking maybe that's why I'm moving towards the possibility of accepting the suicidal mindset, since I've got that euthanasia carrot at the end of the stick? Maybe that's what you mean?

 

[Helvete]

from what I've seen from other threads, having the ability to ctb if you wanted to is enough for some to realize that it's not actually what they want to do. it's when people have no options at all that they start to get more desperate for means to end it

 

[StarryEyed]

Take this with a grain of salt, but therapy seems to have very mixed results. I can't go because I do cancer research and need government clearance but I've found that having a close friend or even some random person across the world who you can open up to and talk with is worth so much more! pm always open if you ever need to chat or socialize

Definitely this peer support is fabulous! I've never had this. I have fabulous friends and family IRL but no one who has this problem. Therapy I do/did is more tools orientated, like CBT, mindfulness, EMDR and such.

You random people across the world are like a band of angels

 

[whywere]

I am 68, 24/7 chronic pain from a very nasty car crash, car crash NOT my fault, wrong place at the wrong time, and having nobody around ever, it is me and that is it.

Now with those aspects said every day I find something to feel good about or something that brings a smile to my face or a beautiful sunrise and/or sunset.

Especially with the chronic pain, I struggle each and every day, BUT the quality of life still vastly outweighs the quantity of life.

Yes, it is a struggle somedays but then on other days I am rewarded by a beautiful blue sky.

You are a loving, kind and such a good friend that having you here is such a wonderful aspect of this site.

Lots of hugs and love to you, my good friend.

Walter

 

[Ociv]

I think you certainly can. My reasons for wanting to CTB now are based pretty much completely in logical conclusions I have made about my life, but long before I even gave it any thought, I had suicidal ideas borne solely from a chemical depression. If suicidal thoughts like those are commonplace for you, but you have a strong reason to go on, then it is entirely possible to power through and live regardless.

For me, the idea of dying is comforting in the same way as thoughts of your warm comfy bed on a cold winter night: I would gladly step indoors and cuddle up under the blankets. but what if I had an important mission outside? What if I snapped my fingers and suddenly I had a wife and children, and they needed me to brave the blizzard to get them something to eat for dinner? of course I would long for my bed all the same, but I would not go inside until I found what I was looking for or died trying.

What Im trying to say is, it is possible to long for death but power through for a cause you find worthy. the only hard parts are finding your cause, and staying focused on it.

 

[StarryEyed]

from what I've seen from other threads, having the ability to ctb if you wanted to is enough for some to realize that it's not actually what they want to do. it's when people have no options at all that they start to get more desperate for means to end it

I thought about getting a method lined up for when I'm really desperate, because when I'm really desperate I don't have my wits about me to get a source. But I can't even keep chocolate in the house. Or cigarettes. Or ice cream. So I know in all likelihood if I set something up, it's going to get used. That's when I have to ask myself, do I really want to?

I am 68, 24/7 chronic pain from a very nasty car crash, car crash NOT my fault, wrong place at the wrong time, and having nobody around ever, it is me and that is it.

Now with those aspects said every day I find something to feel good about or something that brings a smile to my face or a beautiful sunrise and/or sunset.

Especially with the chronic pain, I struggle each and every day, BUT the quality of life still vastly outweighs the quantity of life.

Yes, it is a struggle somedays but then on other days I am rewarded by a beautiful blue sky.

You are a loving, kind and such a good friend that having you here is such a wonderful aspect of this site.

Lots of hugs and love to you, my good friend.

Walter

What sweet words, Walter. You too are so kind. Thank you. You know, that's what I hang onto too, the little things. They're the big things for me. My favourite two things today were taking my cat to the vet for her checkup and talking to one of my best friends on videochat for close to two hours. That makes the pain worthwhile. Now three fabulous things - hanging out with my international group of suicidal friends

 

[Helvete]

Do whatever you think will bring you the most peace and will let you relax. If that means having a method in place then so be it, but just be aware that if its easily accesible it may lead you to make an impulse decision. That's why i had to let a buddy of mine keep the glock for a while when i was at a low. Just know that nothing is impossible to overcome, and if you are stubborn like me and Mr. Walter above me you can live a full life and learn to deal with the urges. I went from sitting there gun to my face after my lover got sent away to a psyche ward for trying to od, to having a successful career and a group of friends who keep me grounded. I hope for the best for you man

 

[AshersGirl]

I'm wary about posting this article here because it's more suited to the Recovery section, there is a lot in there about crisis plans and the like but the author speaks a lot about what I think you're talking about.

I am not always very attached to being alive

Chronic, passive suicidal ideation is like living in the ocean. Let’s start talking about how to tread water.

theoutline.com

To be honest I've spent three decades like this - with intermittent periods where my suicidality was less passive and more acute, and certainly the last few years I've lost interest in recovery and couldn't care less about having a crisis plan or "floatation devices" as the author calls them… but before that? Yeah, the article resonated a lot.

 

[etherealspring]

it's definitely a real thing. ive been living with this mindset for several years now, though recently ive been finding it harder

 

[StarryEyed]

I think you certainly can. My reasons for wanting to CTB now are based pretty much completely in logical conclusions I have made about my life, but long before I even gave it any thought, I had suicidal ideas borne solely from a chemical depression. If suicidal thoughts like those are commonplace for you, but you have a strong reason to go on, then it is entirely possible to power through and live regardless.

For me, the idea of dying is comforting in the same way as thoughts of your warm comfy bed on a cold winter night: I would gladly step indoors and cuddle up under the blankets. but what if I had an important mission outside? What if I snapped my fingers and suddenly I had a wife and children, and they needed me to brave the blizzard to get them something to eat for dinner? of course I would long for my bed all the same, but I would not go inside until I found what I was looking for or died trying.

What Im trying to say is, it is possible to long for death but power through for a cause you find worthy. the only hard parts are finding your cause, and staying focused on it.

Thank you for your encouragement. I too find comfort in the thought of dying. I've never heard anyone say that or describe the comfort so well. Wow That's exactly what I'm trying to do - find a new reason to live. I've lost the ability to do almost everything I love to do. So I'm trying to reinvent my life but there's so little to work with and I'm so fucking tired. Too tired to reinvent everything. I've worked for causes before and don't have it in me anymore. But reasons, that's what I'm looking for. Are you looking for a cause or reason?
Thanks @AshersGirl and @etherealspring for your posts. It's waaay past my bedtime here, so I'll reply tomorrow.

Thanks all for getting my back. Love and hugs to all of you.

 

[Ociv]

Are you looking for a cause or reason?

I was, but after a couple big failed attempts, I sort of moved past the idea. I am now looking for ways to escape my life, but it is going to be a long and thorough journey, as it is the last one I will ever take. and If I were to stumble upon a cause to live for along the way, then I will have renewed my lease on life.

I'm not out of ideas yet..

 

[Helvete]

I dont mean this in any critical way at all, but looking for reasons to live externally can be very hard, and if you are seeking recovery the first place to find meaning from should be yourself. in my experience it's hard to put my reasons to live in something external because all of it is temporary. If you put all your reason to live on some other person/job/pet etc., when they are gone it all comes crashing down. I don't know you but I know you are an incredible person and deserve happiness just for being here on this shitty planet lol

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Yes, there is. Not everyone who is suicidal wants to actually kill themself. Suicidal ideation is complex and can arise for a variety of reasons. There are cases of people who come to peace with their suicidal thoughts but who don't ever plan on committing since they don't really want to die.

 

[StarryEyed]

What a beautiful way to wake up - to these messages. Thank you all for reaching out. Speaking from the heart, like you do here, always makes sense to me. I've been processing your comments since last night.

@AshersGirl the article is fabulous, thank you. I relate to some of it. I love her ending,"Perhaps what I'm looking for isn't land at all, but other [suicidal] people out here with me. Trying, and treading, and learning to live in the water." That's what I was posting about last week, that maybe this suicidal part of me just needs to express herself, like on the forum. I go from actively suicidal (meaning with a plan) to passively suicidal (without a plan) to not suicidal. Like you, I've been in this for 30 years. I don't think of reasons to live as floatation devices, and the ocean being suicidal thinking - as she says in the article. I'd be more inclined to think of life itself as the ocean including everything in the ocean, and suicidal thinking as an undertow. Regardless, I'm talking about being at peace with both active and passive suicidal ideation. I mean, why not allow those thoughts? The Thought Police aren't comfortable with these thoughts, but maybe I can become comfortable with them?

@etherealspring so you're saying you were at one time at peace with suicidal thinking?

@Ociv I hope you find your peace, in whatever form you most need.

@Helvete I'm looking for a diverse portfolio of reasons to live :) ....both for me and for others. I need both to survive. It's one of the reasons I get suicidal is that I can't do much for others as I'm dealing with too many illnesses. But I like doing little things for others, just as I like doing little things for myself. For example, baking banana bread for others always makes the world a better place :) For myself, I'm trying two new hobbies. But these aren't really reasons to live. Dunno yet. Shitty planet? Yeah, I think that too sometimes. But it depends on your focus, right?

@EvisceratedJester yes, maybe that's exactly what's going on with me - that I don't really want to die? That's what I was saying above, that I recently realised I'm too scared to have a ctb method on the ready in case I act impulsively, so it occurred to me that maybe I don't really want to die.

Thank you all again for your guidance. Here is a song for you all...

 

[UKscotty]

Not sure if decide is the word I'd use... but yes I believe this is the case. Also definitely not at peace with it.

I fight on as there must still be that glimmer of hope, part of me knows that suicide is sadly far too easy and I could be gone 5 minutes from now with just a power cord. It's hard some days to stay alive.

Being suicidal is a serious mental illness, I'm not sure I will ever say I'm at peace with living.

Some days are amazing, but most suck.

 

[StarryEyed]

@UKscotty maybe defining what I mean by "coming to peace" in the context of my background will make more sense. I think we're on the same page, but maybe semantics make it seem like we're at opposite ends. As I said, I've been struggling for 30 years now with suicidal thinking. I have tried everything to get rid of these thoughts, from therapies to a ton of different meds. I can't tolerate the antidepressants anymore. I've made little progress in that every time the waters get rough, suicidal thinking bites me in the ass and blam I'm face down in the mud again. Then I take the meds, which feel great for a few months until the side effects take over. Then I'm worse than I was before the meds. And I have been in this cycle for three decades. Like Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So I need to try something different to escape this insane cycle.

So I'm giving that suicidal part of me a voice by making advance directives to pull all care if I get too sick, and in the last year by pulling out of almost all medical care, and by informing myself about the laws of euthanasia in my country and setting up supports with a euthanasia organisation here, and by finally giving my suicidal part an active voice here on the forum. At this point, as in a few days ago, I think I've given my Suicidal Self sufficient room in my life (present and future) that I might just be able to live with her suicidal thinking. What I mean is that I have integrated that part of me into my life, as opposed to what I have been doing up until recently, which was to try to shut her up, deny her a voice and actually, ironically, try to kill her. So in a way I have found my weapons of choice and I have now committed suicide, but in the future.

Yes, suicidal thinking is a very serious disease that could ultimately be my weakest link and cause of death. But so too my weakest link could be anything else in my body. Maybe my heart. Or cancer. Or kidney failure. All causes of death are serious. I hope my Suicidal Self doesn't cause my demise, but I'm thinking maybe by having given her a voice and integrating her in my life, she may be less haunting.

To me, this isn't recovery and I fucking hate that word in the context of mental health as it's inappropriately overused and misused. To me recovery means cure. So I'm not talking about what I consider recovery; I'm talking about integration of and management of suicidal thinking. That's what I mean when I say coming to peace with suicidal thinking. I certainly don't mean that I'm not suffering. I certainly don't mean that that part of me magically vanishes.

Does that make more sense to you? Do you relate? If not, that's okay. I'm good with that. We don't have to be the same. Thanks for reaching out.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've had suicidal thoughts for 34 years, since I was 10. To varying intensities of course. For me, I've never felt able to go while certain loved ones were still alive.

I guess it depends on just how intense your thoughts are and how debilitating they are to your life. I was able to put my focus on study at uni and trying to pursue a creative job. It likely depends on how well your coping mechanisms sustain you. Mine have been failing the past few years but they've been helpful before that.

I think you can kind of identify as a cynical, depressive sort and be ok with it. I think in some ways, some of us think we're being more peceptive in being able to see how shit this world is! A lot of us probably embrace gallows humour too, in the sense that it's all so ridiculous and we are all so powerless that- if we don't laugh, we'll cry- and we'll probably do that a lot too. But sure, I suspect some suicidal people never get around to killing themselves. I wonder if they ever manage to find any degree of happiness. At least we will die eventually- there's that.

 

[StarryEyed]

@Forever Sleep up until about 5 years ago, when suicidal, I always believed that even my loved ones would be better off without me. When they denied that, I believed they just didn't know the truth but when I was dead they would realise how much better they were without me. I felt I was too much of a burden. Then about 5 years ago when suicidal I realised that my favourite person in the whole world - an aunt - could not survive my suicide. I'll never forget that shift. That was a beautiful inside spark. Then about three years ago when suicidal again I realised how much it would hurt my mom, sister and brother. I don't know why I didn't see it before. But I finally saw it. Maybe it was due to my aunt's spark. Dunno.

I always have quoted the song Bobby McGee to say, freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. When we believe the world is better off without us, we have created freedom. Freedom to do anything. Combine that freedom with unbearable suffering... Well, voila, there is a perfect recipe for suicidal thinking. So freedom + suffering = suicide. I know that's not everyone. But some of us. So my aunt took away my freedom, which changed me a lot.

I love your "cynical, depressive sort and be okay with it!". Lol! Yeah, I get more comfortable with that all the time. In fact some people get pretty famous with that angle. Case in point is one of my favourite human beings - Leonard Cohen.

Your comment about humour has me cracking up. Do you know one of the psychiatric assessments is evaluating your sense of humour? Honest! The psychiatric term if your humour isn't considered healthy is "inappropriate laughter". So on the psych ward when we'd be splitting a gut over something that we knew was just crazy funny, we'd start taunting eachother saying it was inappropriate laughter, to which the other would say, "inappropriate for whom???" and then of course we'd laugh even more. I don't know if that came across, but, yeah, our humour is definitely from another zone than normies.

As for happy, bleh, I honestly think it's overrated and oversought. But maybe that's my cynical side peaking out?