Is the prolifer sister site called "sanctioned-life"?

[Tears in Rain]

And I think we have free will lol, isn't your own free will to come to this post and reply to comments? You were free to do that, and that was your will.

When I talk of free will, I mean 100% free will. Which we obviously don't have, given that a lot of our internal programming is influencing our every decision.

The question really is, do we have any will or no will? How much free will do we really have, given that we definitely don't have 100%?

We like to think that we make all of our own choices by ourselves, but do we? These beliefs we have inside of us that influence our decisions, how many of them were put there by us?
Our egos are a bird's nest of crap our ancestors have accumulated for centuries, topped up by crap we've accumulated in our own lives. Most of which we had no choice over.

We just gotta remember that whatever path we have chosen, we made that choice (because of this or that reason).

The problem for a lot of us is that the path we're on was laid out for us, we didn't have much choice. And now we're too far down the path to be able to change anything.

 

[BlockHammer]

My dumbass thought what you said was real lmao, but seriously it's just exhausting dealing with people who's had this one-sided pov, they thing that death is delutional and life will always be better. I get that perhaps they dont want their worldview getting destroyed but it's just wrong to rob people of their autonomy and pretend to know "better" when they dont

 

[R_N]

For people who believe in free will, before you did something what made you take an action?

Feeling? A thought? An itch of sorts? Why do we do anything?

 

[sserafim]

For people who believe in free will, before you did something what made you take an action?

Feeling? A thought? An itch of sorts? Why do we do anything?

I don't believe in free will but I guess because you had a desire to?

When I talk of free will, I mean 100% free will. Which we obviously don't have, given that a lot of our internal programming is influencing our every decision.

The question really is, do we have any will or no will? How much free will do we really have, given that we definitely don't have 100%?

We like to think that we make all of our own choices by ourselves, but do we? These beliefs we have inside of us that influence our decisions, how many of them were put there by us?
Our egos are a bird's nest of crap our ancestors have accumulated for centuries, topped up by crap we've accumulated in our own lives. Most of which we had no choice over.


The problem for a lot of us is that the path we're on was laid out for us, we didn't have much choice. And now we're too far down the path to be able to change anything.

I agree, your experiences shape who you are

She's chatgpt if it were suicidal.

XOXO, OpenAI

 

[R_N]

I don't think that we have free will but I guess because you had a desire to?

And where do desires come from? What makes humans have said desires? Why are humans often similar and some of our desires overlap?

 

[sserafim]

And where do desires come from? What makes humans have said desires? Why are humans often similar and some of our desires overlap?

I guess they come from the neurotransmitters and chemical reactions in your brain? Also your instinctual drives that were fine-tuned through evolution (like SI for example). Humans are often similar because we're all part of the same species, we all share the same DNA (like up to 99.9%). It makes sense that our desires would overlap. Where do you think desires come from?

 

[R_N]

Where do you think desires come from?

Brain. But there is always a part of me that suspects everything which is for the best.

I just imagine free will would make the world look chaotic and unpredictable. There is too much order and similar behavioural patterns when you observe any specie.

It is just hard for me to believe in free will...

 

[Adûnâi]

I think it really is important to talk about @FuneralCry's presence here because I think it is concerning. Her rhetoric seems dangerous and far beyond just supportive of suicide.

You promised you weren't a pro-lifer, but now you're bullying FuneralCry. Slippery slope.

 

[SexyIncél]

I think it really is important to talk about @FuneralCry's presence here because I think it is concerning. Her rhetoric seems dangerous and far beyond just supportive of suicide.

Counterpoint: she needs to be a nightly news anchor. Giving editorials & her takes on world events

 

[exiled]

You promised you weren't a pro-lifer, but now you're bullying FuneralCry. Slippery slope.

Heads up I'm not trying to bully. I think I got caught up in frustration because so much is still shocking for me here. I'm wrestling between extremes and it's hard. But I worry that some of the posts from FC are just automatically encouraging of suicide. I'm not pro life but I think I'm more of the belief of wanting to truly know a little more about someone to find out if it's impulsive or thought through. I want to offer my help to those who might decide to live. But I'll offer my support to those who are truly thought through in their decision.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess it depends on how we see things. Sure it seems we are very restricted (and we are), but within that restriction we can find some freedom.

Like, I have this body so I need food. To get food I need a job, and then we have many options in what kinds of jobs we want to do (sometimes, it depends a lot on where we live, opportunities, etc...).

But some people have also choose to stray from that path. Granted, it's not very common. Some adopt the vagabond lifestyle, maybe doing odd jobs for a few months a year. Others start their own business, others become monks so society supports them and others are complete hermits/recluses and independent, having animals, foraging, etc.

We are conditioned in many ways but we can break out of that condition if we really want. But there will always be suffering to whatever lifestyle we choose.

We just gotta remember that whatever path we have chosen, we made that choice (because of this or that reason).

Ego is the beginning and the end of all problems. The "Me" center, that sense of Self.

I agree. There are always options but the problem I have is- they all include living! What if you insist you want nothing to do with life? Of course, it's not an impossible choice to make but it's one that's made extremely difficult. You're either flat out told that it isn't something you should even be considering. You've got something wrong mentally if you think this way- (Hmmmm- prove it!) Or, just the practicalities of it. Sure- you can have a bash at the very few methods they haven't been able to restrict... (death by a million paper cuts perhaps) but- there's a good chance you'll fail and fail with truly awful consequences.

I mean sure- we can all try and improve our situations. I expect the vast majority of us already have to some extent. Many people aren't here for the lack of trying to make life work. What if- all it ever feels like though is making the best out of a bad situation? How many times do we have to say we hate it for people to accept that we aren't living for us anymore. We have no hope or much desire left for things to improve. We're simply limping on for their sake. Is that a fair ask of someone?

 

[Davey36000]

I agree. There are always options but the problem I have is- they all include living! What if you insist you want nothing to do with life? Of course, it's not an impossible choice to make but it's one that's made extremely difficult. You're either flat out told that it isn't something you should even be considering. You've got something wrong mentally if you think this way- (Hmmmm- prove it!) Or, just the practicalities of it. Sure- you can have a bash at the very few methods they haven't been able to restrict... (death by a million paper cuts perhaps) but- there's a good chance you'll fail and fail with truly awful consequences.

I mean sure- we can all try and improve our situations. I expect the vast majority of us already have to some extent. Many people aren't here for the lack of trying to make life work. What if- all it ever feels like though is making the best out of a bad situation? How many times do we have to say we hate it for people to accept that we aren't living for us anymore. We have no hope or much desire left for things to improve. We're simply limping on for their sake. Is that a fair ask of someone?

You are life, you are not separate from it lol, existing is the bare minimum.

But I mean I dunno... If you are doing everything you can then you just need to be more positive with yourself. But many of us, include me, are on this forum precisely because we lack that positivity about ourselves... Lol.

Maybe you can lose interest about people or modern society, entertainments etc... but the birds are always there, the flowers, sunny days, and the plants, trees, etc. Can these things be enough?

Because usually with people made things, it always seems very dramatic or they are always trying to "fuck you" somehow, but at least the birds are honest, and the flowers, and the trees... They're just there, plants, and they are not trying to "fuck you" (except for the poisonous ones).

 

[Forever Sleep]

You are life, you are not separate from it lol, existing is the bare minimum.

But I mean I dunno... If you are doing everything you can then you just need to be more positive with yourself. But many of us, include me, are on this forum precisely because we lack that positivity about ourselves... Lol.

Maybe you can lose interest about people or modern society, entertainments etc... but the birds are always there, the flowers, sunny days, and the plants, trees, etc. Can these things be enough?

Because usually with people made things, it always seems very dramatic or they are always trying to "fuck you" somehow, but at least the birds are honest, and the flowers, and the trees... They're just there, plants, and they are not trying to "fuck you" (except for the poisonous ones).

If I was life, then I wouldn't die and no one would be able to kill themselves- surely? Life is simply something we experience until we don't. It's just that we happen to be conscious of the process.

I'd only 'need' to be more positive with myself if I was intent on recovery- I'm not.

Unless you are the Bear Grylls type (survival expert,) the likelihood is you'll need to entangle yourself with people made things and systems in order to survive. Most people need to earn money.

Birds and nature can be a lovely distraction for sure but- unless they are like the ones in Disney's Snow White, that come in and help out with the housework, they're not going to be anything more than a distraction. Also bear in mind, it's us that poses the biggest threat to their survival!

Sorry to be so negative though. I think you are maybe more about finding the positives in life. Great- I hope it works out for you. I guess my argument though is- none of it should be enforced. I don't actually think it can be anyway. People who don't want to 'recover', won't. My argument is more that living isn't compulsory. There actually isn't a: 'You NEED to do this and this and this to recover'. It's a choice that person NEEDS to make for themself. Pro-choice and all that.

 

[Davey36000]

If I was life, then I wouldn't die and no one would be able to kill themselves- surely? Life is simply something we experience until we don't. It's just that we happen to be conscious of the process.

I'd only 'need' to be more positive with myself if I was intent on recovery- I'm not.

Unless you are the Bear Grylls type (survival expert,) the likelihood is you'll need to entangle yourself with people made things and systems in order to survive. Most people need to earn money.

Birds and nature can be a lovely distraction for sure but- unless they are like the ones in Disney's Snow White, that come in and help out with the housework, they're not going to be anything more than a distraction. Also bear in mind, it's us that poses the biggest threat to their survival!

Sorry to be so negative though. I think you are maybe more about finding the positives in life. Great- I hope it works out for you. I guess my argument though is- none of it should be enforced. I don't actually think it can be anyway. People who don't want to 'recover', won't. My argument is more that living isn't compulsory. There actually isn't a: 'You NEED to do this and this and this to recover'. It's a choice that person NEEDS to make for themself. Pro-choice and all that.

I think you are doing well...

We can all try to find the positives...

Be cause it's easy to just hate the BS.

But being in a state of hatred doesn't lead anywhere and it's not fun. (Negative emotions are not fun)

But the best advice is to pluck all the rotten flowers society conditioned to us almost from birth. Because many things we learn aren't all that useful and we don't learn enough useful things to begin with.

(Example: Learning wild edible plants in your region, medicinal as well.)

What if we begin to pluck all rotten flowers (thoughts which are not true) and remain with only the healthy flowers (truthful thoughts).

[And unlearning: I need this or that to be happy, why can't I be enough?]

What if that makes a difference?

Some piece of exotic wisdom from the East: we always acquire different "toys" throughout our lives but the "I" is always there, regardless of the script. Everything else comes and goes. Only our presence is permanent.