Burden_Bailey
A lonely lesbian
- Dec 9, 2023
- 122
I was talking with someone online and they kept telling me that suicide was selfish. It made me very uncomfortable. It would bring me ease if you guys gave arguments against this claim.
MatrixPrisoner
Enlightened
- Jul 8, 2023
- 1,632
Possibly, but expecting someone to suffer through a life they don't want to live is even more selfish.
abouttosuicide
Member
- Dec 20, 2023
- 13
I don't find Suicide selfish. How can someone find it selfish? I feel like you are helping the person if they want to suicide, so they don't have to suffer anymore
beelzebul
(；´д｀)ゞ
- Oct 10, 2023
- 123
Yes. Of course it is. But that's totally okay. Humans are selfish by nature and we all want what's best for ourselves. It's okay to be selfish sometimes.
Slow_Farewell
Warlock
- Dec 19, 2023
- 709
Well...depends on which side you take a look at it.
In terms of relationships and possibilities (the future relationships you may form if you continue living) then yes, in a way.
In terms of something quantifiable? No, it's not.
Before I go into detail, I am not a scientist, nor am I an environmentalist. I, like many people here, just observe a bit more than usual. People consume resources, both environmental or not. I believe if one takes one's self out of the equation then it's still less less strain on the environment, monetary/financial system, etc.
Life, as they say, doesn't owe anyone anything. I fail to see where I owe continue living it, then.
In terms of relationships and possibilities (the future relationships you may form if you continue living) then yes, in a way.
In terms of something quantifiable? No, it's not.
Before I go into detail, I am not a scientist, nor am I an environmentalist. I, like many people here, just observe a bit more than usual. People consume resources, both environmental or not. I believe if one takes one's self out of the equation then it's still less less strain on the environment, monetary/financial system, etc.
Life, as they say, doesn't owe anyone anything. I fail to see where I owe continue living it, then.
Yes in some ways. It's about escaping your own pain knowing that your actions may well cause other people pain. Still- I see it as slightly different as other selfish acts. Most selfish acts seek to gain something as the main goal. Suicide is in part to gain peace I suppose but- we'll be too dead to enjoy that peace! I see suicide more as a desperate attempt to escape. Is a prisoner who is being tortured selfish for escaping? Even if the prison guard gets into trouble? Even if the other prisoners will miss them? No- they just wanted out.
Plus- the grief that suicide causes isn't usually the main goal. It's a very unfortunate side effect we would love to avoid if we could. I reckon- if you asked people here if- given the ability- they could wipe all traces of their existence before CTB- to stop their loved ones suffering- many would do it. Most people committing suicide don't want to inflict pain on others. Many will in fact hang on for years- even decades to minimize it. (Myself included- my dead spirit will be furious if anyone calls me selfish... I've had ideation for 33 years to varying degrees.)
It's a bit like eating meat or buying cheap goods. Some things we need to survive. Some things we just like. The majority of developed world citizens are being selfish every single day! They live in relative comfort because they indirectly exploit other people and animals that suffer terribly!
This bit's an antinatilist rant- so- trigger warning to parents... I'd say bringing a child into this world is a more selfish act than choosing to kill yourself. It may have been done with good intentions but that child is going to be exposed to so much risk. No parent can protect their child from every bad thing that may very well happen to it. Maybe they think they're doing it for the sake of the child. That that child could very well have a great life- it could of course. It could just as easily not though and then it will most likely largely be the parents that insists it stays here. Emotionally blackmails it to stay. I doubt many parents have children without wanting them themselves. In which case- primarily they did it for themselves. So- it's at least in part a selfish act. Then- insisting they make the best of it, 'cheer up', be strong for them, sort their life out themselves- also selfish sentiments. They don't want the hassle of dealing with problems. They want the easy life. They don't want to face the guilt that they initiated their childs life here and their child is now so deeply unhappy that they want to end it. If their child does end it- they likely will feel guilt. What more could I have done? Did I do anything to actually make them feel that way? They don't want to feel those things.
Other people that potentially could have done more don't either. So- they also would prefer someone to struggle on so that they don't have to experience that. That's surely selfish also? The suicidal person isn't the one with all the strength and resilience in life- otherwise, they wouldn't be suicidal! I'd say- most suicides aren't an act of defiance to upset people. Most are desperate acts because that person can't cope anymore. So- a long winded way of saying- yes and no- it's selfish.
Plus- the grief that suicide causes isn't usually the main goal. It's a very unfortunate side effect we would love to avoid if we could. I reckon- if you asked people here if- given the ability- they could wipe all traces of their existence before CTB- to stop their loved ones suffering- many would do it. Most people committing suicide don't want to inflict pain on others. Many will in fact hang on for years- even decades to minimize it. (Myself included- my dead spirit will be furious if anyone calls me selfish... I've had ideation for 33 years to varying degrees.)
It's a bit like eating meat or buying cheap goods. Some things we need to survive. Some things we just like. The majority of developed world citizens are being selfish every single day! They live in relative comfort because they indirectly exploit other people and animals that suffer terribly!
This bit's an antinatilist rant- so- trigger warning to parents... I'd say bringing a child into this world is a more selfish act than choosing to kill yourself. It may have been done with good intentions but that child is going to be exposed to so much risk. No parent can protect their child from every bad thing that may very well happen to it. Maybe they think they're doing it for the sake of the child. That that child could very well have a great life- it could of course. It could just as easily not though and then it will most likely largely be the parents that insists it stays here. Emotionally blackmails it to stay. I doubt many parents have children without wanting them themselves. In which case- primarily they did it for themselves. So- it's at least in part a selfish act. Then- insisting they make the best of it, 'cheer up', be strong for them, sort their life out themselves- also selfish sentiments. They don't want the hassle of dealing with problems. They want the easy life. They don't want to face the guilt that they initiated their childs life here and their child is now so deeply unhappy that they want to end it. If their child does end it- they likely will feel guilt. What more could I have done? Did I do anything to actually make them feel that way? They don't want to feel those things.
Other people that potentially could have done more don't either. So- they also would prefer someone to struggle on so that they don't have to experience that. That's surely selfish also? The suicidal person isn't the one with all the strength and resilience in life- otherwise, they wouldn't be suicidal! I'd say- most suicides aren't an act of defiance to upset people. Most are desperate acts because that person can't cope anymore. So- a long winded way of saying- yes and no- it's selfish.
LaVieEnRose
Angelic
- Jul 23, 2022
- 4,253
There is a sort of selfish aspect when it comes to a rational suicide, particularly if you have dependents. And when it comes to the actual execution of the suicide there are more and less selfish ways of carrying it out. In general, I find that you have to lean into the selfishness of it or you'll never be able to accomplish it.
Demanding people stay alive to spare them grief is also selfish. But that's the nature of human life. Competing interests at every turn. There is a time and place to act in your own interest and a time and place to act in someone else's. At some point enough is enough.
Demanding people stay alive to spare them grief is also selfish. But that's the nature of human life. Competing interests at every turn. There is a time and place to act in your own interest and a time and place to act in someone else's. At some point enough is enough.
I don't think reflexive suicide is selfish. Like, if someone is in extreme pain and can't stand to live a second more. Making the decision to commit suicide is selfish imo, but so is asking a suicidal person to sacrifice their own personal well-being in order to protect yours. A person can be fully justified in CTB, but that doesn't mean it won't hurt others. We find ourselves in such a cruel and unfair situation.
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Mistiie
This is a Junly moment
- Nov 10, 2023
- 205
Everything has a selfish aspect to it, no matter what you do. It's a part of what determines someone's view of right vs. wrong. Not donating to charity might be selfish. Taking the last piece of chicken from a KFC bucket is selfish. Literally everything you do with a downside for an individual other than yourself or those who you are positively affecting is selfish, even if you're doing it to be selfless to others. Likewise, suicide is selfish. There will never be anything that has a 'catch' to it (a positive and a negative for two differing parties) that isn't considered selfish. What should really be questioned is how selfish it is, although whether or not that's able to be determined is questionable.
FuneralCry
Just wanting some peace
- Sep 24, 2020
- 38,970
I personally despise the people who go on about how suicide is "selfish" as other people's personal decisions are simply nothing to do with them. We never consented to being here and aren't obligated to continue existing, the selfish ones are those who wish to force others to suffer when they want to be gone. And no matter what those people say we all have a right to die.
jbear824
F*ck humanity. Let's end this.
- Jul 4, 2023
- 409
Not even a little bit. We don't owe anyone our lives. Our lives and our bodies are our own. We don't owe our suffering to anyone. God I fucking hate this. We're not obligated to live or suffer for anyone or anything.
What is selfish is people expecting others to suffer indefinitely just so they don't have to experience negative feelings. That's selfish. That's beyond selfish. I can't even.
What is selfish is people expecting others to suffer indefinitely just so they don't have to experience negative feelings. That's selfish. That's beyond selfish. I can't even.
As someone who wakes up every damn day with nothing meaningful/enduring to look forward to, I'm continually appalled that so many people consider it purely selfish. Personally, the thought of suicide and death in general actually terrifies me---one reason why I haven't gone through with it yet. I dread the Unknown and the thought that there could be an afterlife, and whoever in charge will decide I should exist forever because I couldn't hack it in this life. But if ending one's own life on one's own terms is selfish, then so is the act that resulted in that person's existence. It's selfish of the parents to make the decision to have children. If there's a God, it was selfish of that being to put people here, knowing they might never find contentment/peace/etc. Nobody asks to be born, so what right does anyone else have to keep in chains, as it were, the sufferer?
Burden_Bailey
A lonely lesbian
- Dec 9, 2023
- 122
I'm a Christian, so I don't think it was selfish of God. I think it was selfish of the devil to make this world so sufferable. But other than that, I agree.
coolbreeze56
Member
- Dec 19, 2023
- 38
Depends. Let's say you racked up a shit ton of debt and left it to be paid by a relative after ctb? Sure, that can be seen as selfish.
Lost cherry
Student
- Oct 21, 2023
- 144
Its not important is suicide selfish or not.
I feel sorry for ourselves the most because we are not happy as other people, we suffer, we are lonely, without love, it is difficult for us, while others are enjoying themselves, we are dying from sadness.
And we are not less valuable than others.
I know very smart people on this site. Intelligent . With beautiful souls.
I am most sorry that we dont have the opportunity for a better life, and that we need to help ourselves we by ctb.
I dont care if its selfish. its just a choice.
will you live your whole life unhappy or will you help yourself and ctb. as sad as it is, we will travel in peace and all the sadness we feel now will disappear when we stop breathing.
I feel sorry for ourselves the most because we are not happy as other people, we suffer, we are lonely, without love, it is difficult for us, while others are enjoying themselves, we are dying from sadness.
And we are not less valuable than others.
I know very smart people on this site. Intelligent . With beautiful souls.
I am most sorry that we dont have the opportunity for a better life, and that we need to help ourselves we by ctb.
I dont care if its selfish. its just a choice.
will you live your whole life unhappy or will you help yourself and ctb. as sad as it is, we will travel in peace and all the sadness we feel now will disappear when we stop breathing.
Both sides can be easily called selfish. I think the problem is how the word comes with a negative connotation. We do a lot of things for selfish reasons because it benefits us. We don't think about how it affects others because we really only care about ourselves in the end. There's always an existing want or need of something or someone.
Sure, we CTB for our own reasons. Then someone who doesn't understand will try to guilt trip you by saying "that's selfish. Think of how everyone that cares about you will feel!"
So then you hesitate, feel bad, then you don't go through with it.
On the other perspective, they're selfish for guilting tripping you, not trying to understand how you feel, and trying to force you to live through your suffering when it's your decision in the first place to do what you want with your life. Choosing to end it so you no longer feel anything, or choosing to live to find whatever joy you can get to tolerate life for as long as possible.
It all comes down to perspective. It's what you would choose to believe so it can feel better for you, so that it fits your current situation better.
There's really nothing wrong with you choosing to exit if you needed to. It's other people's opinions and values that will affect your decision because maybe a part of you cares about what they think and feel.
Sure, we CTB for our own reasons. Then someone who doesn't understand will try to guilt trip you by saying "that's selfish. Think of how everyone that cares about you will feel!"
So then you hesitate, feel bad, then you don't go through with it.
On the other perspective, they're selfish for guilting tripping you, not trying to understand how you feel, and trying to force you to live through your suffering when it's your decision in the first place to do what you want with your life. Choosing to end it so you no longer feel anything, or choosing to live to find whatever joy you can get to tolerate life for as long as possible.
It all comes down to perspective. It's what you would choose to believe so it can feel better for you, so that it fits your current situation better.
There's really nothing wrong with you choosing to exit if you needed to. It's other people's opinions and values that will affect your decision because maybe a part of you cares about what they think and feel.
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vitbar
Escaped Lunatic
- Jun 4, 2023
- 363
It is, but selfishness has its place.
I'm not someone who believes we are all atomised as individuals either. I do feel a debt to other people. All in the same boat kind of thing. IMO this can be taken too far in either direction.
I'm not someone who believes we are all atomised as individuals either. I do feel a debt to other people. All in the same boat kind of thing. IMO this can be taken too far in either direction.
Ash’Girl
Girl, Interrupted
- Apr 29, 2022
- 386
I don't think suicide is any more or less selfish than telling someone who is in pain and suffering to not commit suicide because their death will hurt them.
Both pretty much come down to "I don't want to suffer". The person wanting to ctb wants to escape their suffering, the person not wanting them to ctb wants to avoid the suffering that grief over a loved ones death inevitably brings.
Neither want to cause the other pain and suffering but the primary motivator is what is best for one's self.
Both pretty much come down to "I don't want to suffer". The person wanting to ctb wants to escape their suffering, the person not wanting them to ctb wants to avoid the suffering that grief over a loved ones death inevitably brings.
Neither want to cause the other pain and suffering but the primary motivator is what is best for one's self.
huphup
Student
- Dec 2, 2023
- 108
It can be seen as that, but I think its important to distinguish selfishness from something that is morally bad. Those above made great points that selfishness is all around us in this world and we have for sure been selfish by even existing.
It is selfish to not donate money to those in need. It is selfish to take away oxygen from other people. It is selfish to not work long hours at work without pay.
I think what this comes down to is intent and consequences. Finding ways to reduce harm to others while still preserving what you want. I think murder suicides are worse for this reason.
Do you main intention to hurt others through CTB or do you want to relieve your pain when there is little hope? There will always be selfishness and hurt to others, but many actions of existence do this anyways, we are just blind to it.
It is selfish to not donate money to those in need. It is selfish to take away oxygen from other people. It is selfish to not work long hours at work without pay.
I think what this comes down to is intent and consequences. Finding ways to reduce harm to others while still preserving what you want. I think murder suicides are worse for this reason.
Do you main intention to hurt others through CTB or do you want to relieve your pain when there is little hope? There will always be selfishness and hurt to others, but many actions of existence do this anyways, we are just blind to it.
Aim
🤍
- Sep 12, 2023
- 945
In my opinion, if you ctb just to hurt others, then yess. But if your genuinely suffering. Absolutely no!
penguinl0v3s
Wait for Me 💙
- Nov 1, 2023
- 798
Does it mean anything? Not all selfishness is bad. Sometimes self-care involves selfishness. Pure selflessness will only make a person a miserable pushover.
I was raised Christian, but I guess I'm unfortunately more Deist than anything. Would like to have faith in something, but the way things are it feels impossible to me. I hope no offense was taken by my comment. I realize that may have seemed more severe than what I intended. To clarify, I don't believe God is selfish---I only meant that in a sense of extremes, neither of which I accept as truth. But I cannot say I have enough evidence that God takes an active role in the world. Like most things I've come to believe, I'd LOVE to be wrong here.
annxietty
“Is there no way out of the mind?”
- Mar 27, 2023
- 150
Yes and no. Yes, its selfish because its a decision you make that will hurt others profoundly and you are only thinking about yourself... but like a previous reply said, your body and mind is your own, and its your decision, you cant live because people tell you to live, and its selfish of them to expect you to suffer all your life just so they dont have to see you die... Either way, selfishness is necessary in my opinion, and its not always bad, every human is at least a little bit selfish, if not you will suffer greatly.
Burden_Bailey
A lonely lesbian
- Dec 9, 2023
- 122
That would be very selfish. Before I ctb I will make sure I don't leave a mess like that.
That sounds beautiful.
no, you are not a slave and your life belongs only to you. cant be selfish with your own things by definition.
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