Discussion Is recovery possible in all situations? And what about the extent of recovery too?

[ijustwishtodie]

Do you think that it's impossible for some people to recover entirely? I'm curious about your thoughts

 

[Praestat_Mori]

It depends on the personal situation, the problem itself, MH issues and many other factors whether a recovery is possible or not and last but not least it depends on whether someone wants to give recovery a chance or not.

 

[Hollowman]

Some people are too far gone.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It depends on the personal situation, the problem itself, MH issues and many other factors whether a recovery is possible or not and last but not least it depends on whether someone wants to give recovery a chance or not.

This is all so true and I wish that society gave an answer like this instead of insinuating that everybody can recover if they just "tried hard enough"

Some people are too far gone.

I'm convinced that I'm one of them unfortunately. Hopefully other people here have a better chance at recovery than I do

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

I feel that recovery, just like suicide, is a deeply personal choice. I feel the key factor here, as @Praestat_Mori nicely pointed out, is wanting to give it a chance. If that desire is absent and/or if factors are beyond ones capacity to bear, I would say recovery may be impossible in those conditions.

That said, I have found in my personal recovery that it's necessary to define what I mean by recovery for myself. This personalizing the goal is empowering and has made it feel more within reach.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I feel that recovery, just like suicide, is a deeply personal choice. I feel the key factor here, as @Praestat_Mori nicely pointed out, is wanting to give it a chance. If that desire is absent and/or if factors are beyond ones capacity to bear, I would say recovery may be impossible in those conditions.

Unfortunately, I'd say that the desire for recovery in me is absent after all. What I've noticed is that, throughout this entire time when I thought I had a desire to pursue recovery, I didn't. My desire was only in the end result of the recovery, not the recovery process itself. And, due to that, I don't believe I have a chance at recovery as I really don't want to go through the recovery process no matter how much I think about the end result. Nonetheless, I do hope that changes which is why I'm on this forum.

That said, I have found in my personal recovery that it's necessary to define what I mean by recovery for myself. This personalizing the goal is empowering and has made it feel more within reach.

I see. I got my definition of recovery or at least the end process of it. I wonder what your definition of recovery is. Hopefully you reach your recovery goal soon

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

I wonder what your definition of recovery is. Hopefully you reach your recovery goal soon

Thank you. That's very kind.

I think my previous idea of recovery was highly affected by institutional suicidology. I'm someone who has attempted four times in my life. Ideation is always in the background. I've always been convinced I'll leave by my own choice. The way that therapists deal with this makes it a secret you're not safe to share. Before coming to SaSu I was scared of my ideation, as if it would overcome me someday. Now I fully acknowledge CBT as a valid choice and right. With that being true it feels important to be able to make informed choices. I still actively engage in method research. This helps me understand how difficult it can be. Ironically, I feel a part of my recovery is preparing possible exits and defining for myself what my valid triggers are.

The biggest part of my personal recovery recently is that I have established guard rails where I have cut off the option for impulsive, irrational CBT (for myself). If I'm having a bad day or highly dysregulated, that is not a time for me make big choices. I still find a lot of solace in the option, but am saving it for particular circumstances. Maintaining this freedom of choice is crucial for my recovery.

This quote from Emil Cioran has been a huge influence:
"What saved me is the idea of suicide. Without the idea of suicide I would have surely killed myself."

What I've noticed is that, throughout this entire time when I thought I had a desire to pursue recovery, I didn't. My desire was only in the end result of the recovery, not the recovery process itself.

This makes sense to me, particularly if you're taking on the recovery process of others. Perhaps if you put more emphasis on what recovery looks like for you, the path there may be easier to navigate.

I wish you the best OP.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

@AllCatsAreGrey your latest post made a lot of sense to me, thank you for that quote, I relate to it.

I used to think everyone could be saved, these past few years that idea has changed. I believe some people can be too far gone or simply don't want to get better so they never will.

I'm currently trying to figure out what being treated would look like. I can't get cured from my personality disorder, they say it can be managed. I think I already know what managed is and, if it is what I have experienced, is too much to deal with.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I think my previous idea of recovery was highly affected by institutional suicidology. I'm someone who has attempted four times in my life. Ideation is always in the background. I've always been convinced I'll leave by my own choice. The way that therapists deal with this makes it a secret you're not safe to share. Before coming to SaSu I was scared of my ideation, as if it would overcome me someday. Now I fully acknowledge CBT as a valid choice and right. With that being true it feels important to be able to make informed choices. I still actively engage in method research. This helps me understand how difficult it can be. Ironically, I feel a part of my recovery is preparing possible exits and defining for myself what my valid triggers are.

I see. When you say you acknowledge "cbt as a valid choice", did you mean to say ctb (catch the bus) instead? Or are you talking about the therapist method cbt (cognitive behavioural therapy)?

This quote from Emil Cioran has been a huge influence:
"What saved me is the idea of suicide. Without the idea of suicide I would have surely killed myself."

This sure is a nice quote. Or, well, partially anyway. For it to be nice for me, I'd add the adjective painless to describe the suicide. Maybe even quick. If I had access to a painless way to ctb, I don't even think I'd take it just yet. I'd go all out and, if all else fails and I've considered the options, then I'd ctb. Though, as of now, since there are no painless methods that I can access, what's the point of going all out? If I fail, I cam do nothing but live with the devastation. I don't want to take that chance

This makes sense to me, particularly if you're taking on the recovery process of others. Perhaps if you put more emphasis on what recovery looks like for you, the path there may be easier to navigate.

I wish you the best OP.

If I do that, then I conclude that I don't want to recover. But.. I *have* to recover. I just have to

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

did you mean to say ctb

That's right. Was writing while on the go.

If I do that, then I conclude that I don't want to recover. But.. I *have* to recover. I just have to

That makes sense. I've also shared that feeling before. Could you elaborate on "have to"? Who is that have to for?

I have found defining what I actually want to be a challenge in life. Trying to figure that out is a big part of recovery for me. Most of my life has been doing what I think I should, or what other people want - as if I could get some juice from being close to the wants of others.

I'm currently trying to figure out what being treated would look like. I can't get cured from my personality disorder, they say it can be managed. I think I already know what managed is and, if it is what I have experienced, is too much to deal with.

Would you mind talking more about this? I find it relatable as I have ASD, not a personality disorder, but something that can't be "cured". I also have cPTSD.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

That's right. Was writing while on the go.

Thanks for clarifying. I got so confused

That makes sense. I've also shared that feeling before. Could you elaborate on "have to"? Who is that have to for?

The "have to" is for my own sanity. I get more and more hurt just by existing and I want to take the path of least resistance towards getting better, whether that's suicide or recovery. The "have to" is for myself so that I don't go insane from existence

I have found defining what I actually want to be a challenge in life. Trying to figure that out is a big part of recovery for me. Most of my life has been doing what I think I should, or what other people want - as if I could get some juice from being close to the wants of others.

I know my challenges in life, my only issue is approaching them. My main challenge is my lack of friendships and, when I look at recovery resources that ubiquitously mention talking to a friend, I feel worse again. It makes me think that recovery isn't meant for people like me but for people who are more normal than me. Not to mention that I struggle with having energy to do something which I've explained in another thread of mine here

Would you mind talking more about this? I find it relatable as I have ASD, not a personality disorder, but something that can't be "cured". I also have cPTSD.

I got ASD too and I'm curious on their answer also

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

The "have to" is for my own sanity. I get more and more hurt just by existing and I want to take the path of least resistance towards getting better, whether that's suicide or recovery. The "have to" is for myself so that I don't go insane from existence

That makes complete sense to me. I was mainly curious if the sense of have to was coming from outside. Like, "I have to for x." I appreciate your point about path of least resistance. That highlights a value I relate to.

My main challenge is my lack of friendships and, when I look at recovery resources that ubiquitously mention talking to a friend, I feel worse again. It makes me think that recovery isn't meant for people like me but for people who are more normal than me.

I feel ya on this. That isolation is difficult. And then general advice can make one even more isolated.

Have you ever looked into resources that are geared towards neurodivergent people? I haven't found much that specifically mentions the type of recovery we're concerned with, but I have found some resources helpful. For example, materials that look into autistic burnout and the neurodivergent nervous system.

Not to mention that I struggle with having energy to do something which I've explained in another thread of mine here

Completely makes sense. No need to explain yourself again. If there are specific threads you'd like to share, I'd be happy to read.

 

[nozomu]

Some life situations are so fucked that the kindest option is to CTB.

 

[Kundalini Guy]

Many people with mental health problems would be healed of all their problems if they find the right medication that works. I think they should at least give it a try.

 

[Hollowman]

Many people with mental health problems would be healed of all their problems if they find the right medication that works. I think they should at least give it a try.

Meds don't heal anything they only mask problems. And potentially cause permanent damage.

 

[Kundalini Guy]

Meds don't heal anything they only mask problems. And potentially cause permanent damage.

Are you anti-psychiatry? I can link several studies showing they reduce suicidal thoughts and some recovering fully. Here an example, someone with BPD recovered from suicidal thinking fully after being given flupentixol:

Remission of Suicidal Ideation in Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder with Flupenthixol

There are currently no licensed pharmacological treatments for Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. This case report describes a 50-year-old male who two years previously had been brought to the attention of psychiatric services following an overdose ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Hollowman]

Are you anti-psychiatry? I can link several studies showing they reduce suicidal thoughts and some recovering fully. Here an example, someone with BPD recovered from suicidal thinking fully after being given flupentixol:

Remission of Suicidal Ideation in Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder with Flupenthixol

There are currently no licensed pharmacological treatments for Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. This case report describes a 50-year-old male who two years previously had been brought to the attention of psychiatric services following an overdose ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I suppose you could say I'm anti psych, I've dealt with six of them. Been on over twenty five meds and I'm no better off than when I started. Studies done by pharmaceutical companies can't be trusted. Reduce thoughts for how long? Even if true healing or a cure for any mental health condition were discovered they'd bury it. There's way more money to be made off repeat customers for life.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

That makes complete sense to me. I was mainly curious if the sense of have to was coming from outside. Like, "I have to for x." I appreciate your point about path of least resistance. That highlights a value I relate to.

I see. Interesting. If my "have to" did indeed come from outside, how would you react?

Have you ever looked into resources that are geared towards neurodivergent people? I haven't found much that specifically mentions the type of recovery we're concerned with, but I have found some resources helpful. For example, materials that look into autistic burnout and the neurodivergent nervous system.

I haven't, at least not at great detail. I was going to plan to search for some before I replied to your post again but my brain, right now, can't handle seeing another mental health resource suggesting to spend time with a friend. If I see another thing like that right now.. I'd.. just.. snap. So I decided to not risk it. Is it okay if you can recommend me some resources for neurodivergent people, especially those who are autistic? I'd appreciate it

I suppose you could say I'm anti psych, I've dealt with six of them. Been on over twenty five meds and I'm no better off than when I started. Studies done by pharmaceutical companies can't be trusted. Reduce thoughts for how long? Even if true healing or a cure for any mental health condition were discovered they'd bury it. There's way more money to be made off repeat customers for life.

I'm anti psych too. I'd rather try to recover in any way possible without using meds

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

If my "have to" did indeed come from outside, how would you react?

If that was the case, I'd try to offer advice around how I have dealt with external "have to" pressures. I was mainly curious to see if what you're describing was similar to my experience in that regard.

So I decided to not risk it.

It's great that you're able to be aware of that and avoid it.

Is it okay if you can recommend me some resources for neurodivergent people, especially those who are autistic? I'd appreciate it

One of the biggest resources I've found for autistic people is the work of Dr Neff. She has ADHD and ASD. She's a practicing psychologist and makes resources sharing her research. (Workbooks at a cost and lots of free content too.) I bought a couple of her workbooks and I've found them really helpful. Let me know what you think, if you check them out.

Here is her site. She also has a podcast called Divergent Conversations.