Snake of Eden

Snake of Eden

“Ye shall be as gods..🍎 🐍”
Jun 22, 2021
2,475
I personally don't even care about confidence per se.
There is such a thing as being too confident which is a turn off imo. Confidence is oversold as THE key to be seductive which is very inaccurate and problematic. You may manipulate a partner you are attracted to by following some dating trickery to appear confident but then when the mask falls off it will turn into a shitshow which I dont think is helpful
 
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Snake of Eden

Snake of Eden

“Ye shall be as gods..🍎 🐍”
Jun 22, 2021
2,475
I also think average looking people have a good utility in society as they are not necessarily too occupied with their looks in away that would interfere in their productivity and livelihood. For example, a happily married average person have better odds at maintaining a successful marriage throughout their lifetime because they would have less chance at getting offers of sex outside marriage imo. That is very impactful if you think about it as it will increase chances of a happier adults, kids, careers, happier society overall etc. unfortunately, younger generations are becoming ever more fixated on unrealistic looking people which breeds lots of unhealthy idealism and desire for unattainable partners which breeds alot of dissatisfaction and unhappiness as a result because nothing around looks good enough. The moral of this story is that Sure being very good looking and having a very good looking partner is glorious in alot of ways but does not come without a price. My 2 cents
 
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Angi

Specialist
Jan 4, 2022
305
I hate to say it, and people feel free to throw popcorn at me, but ...
Lovely start by Grav, I will use this, too!
A friend who rarely gets a second date once asked a man she was on a first date with about why this keeps happening to her. He explained: "Well, have you looked in the mirror lately? You look like a cliché yoga teacher, but you read all of these books for clever people, and you have all of these cool hobbies. Don't you realize you are very intimidating?"

So, I suspect confidence is a big factor. Maybe a bit for being seductive, but A LOT for actually daring to go out with someone who you think is awesome. And, why bother going out with someone if you do not think so? (Do not mistake me, though, the first "no" is exactly where confidence ends and crime creeps in.)

Also, I think both guys and dolls should have something to offer in their relationships. Something the have and want to give. Being hot counts, but is certainly not the key to everything, as has been stated before, over and over.

Edit: I would absolutely not choose the first guy, because he looks waaay to young for me. Assuming the baby-beard is just painted on, and he is not to dumb to put his glasses on correctly, but they just slipped the very second the picture was taken, I see nothing wrong with him. Generally, I think most men look perfectly good enough once they figure out how keep hair and smell at bay.
 
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HappyForever?

Love from the deepest dream
Feb 14, 2021
325
Just find yourself an average woman, then. It's about relatability. Connecting with someone on your own wavelength, who you've had similar experiences to. Most couples are about equal in the looks department. How would anyone get married or have kids if that weren't the case?

I don't get these threads. Acting like every woman will only date Ryan Gosling or some shit. Ridiculous.
I'm not saying that every woman will only date attractive men. What I'm trying to say is every women would like to date the most attractive men. However, in most cases they cannot find one, and as a result they settle for a less attractive man. But the resulting relationship is probably less satisfying than one without the compromise.
It's on a spectrum, appearance can be a significant privilege if desirable and a disadvantage if the opposite (in far more areas than just romantic endeavors), or anything in-between.
Think of it like wealth, you could land anywhere from filthy rich to below the poverty line, and you will enjoy (or suffer) the benefits or consequences that come with that.

However I really don't understand the need to say such things as "appearance matters for men more than women"..I mean, surely you must be joking.
Do we inhabit the same planet?
Unless you are saying that men care more about a woman's appearance than a woman cares about a man's..?
(Am I misinterpreting you? Apologies if so.)
If you mean what I originally thought, I have to say that is completely and demonstrably false.

Men and women can be and ARE superficial toward one another (and each other), though let's be honest..as far as couples go, how often do we see an attractive woman on the arm of a man who is not so attractive? And how often do we see the reverse?
The latter is far less common, however even though women (who are almost always reduced-first and foremost-to how they look, even if successful in other areas) leave a little more wiggle room for some men to appear "attractive" in other ways besides their appearance ($$, stability, sense of humor, etc) they still employ quite shallow means of assessing their date's "value".
In other words, if the man is not so physically attractive, the woman will be looking for a high amount of compensatory factors, which I also think is unfair.
(Unless the man is like most and insists on physical beauty in his mate, in that case there is no room to complain, whether he is unattractive or not..it's hypocrisy.
At the same time, the whole idea of "leagues" based on looks and other surface level or unearned factors also disgusts me, I think it's a ridiculous concept.)
This goes for same-sex relationships as well, looks are always a HUGE factor, and if they're less so, then more "catching up" in other areas is expected..which can be exhausting for the individual it is expected from.
I can expand on some exceptions (which are usually rife with abuse and purposeful power imbalances to inflate the ego of one partner, but this is already going to be a lengthy reply).

With social media, the "just swipe" dating apps and picture-centric online dating, this universal constant of hollow leanings becomes a trend that is enhanced and heightened exponentially, there is very little room to sell yourself via personality (any little profile blurbs are usually ignored anyhow..as long as you're not a raging psychopath, your looks will be what get your foot in the door, and you won't have to do much to stay past the threshold once you reach that stage).
In-person and "natural" instances of meeting someone and pursuing them are not much better, but at least there is a little more room to grace someone with the "who" rather than the "what" in those cases, (although the chance to do so is still usually only given to those who are 'easy on the eyes').

Both unattractive men and women have it rough and are often the throwaway joke and shitty punchline in casual conversation and pretty much everywhere else.
I empathize with both genders who have to endure being trapped in a bonafide flesh prison that suffocates their very existence (and condemns them to being seen as "less than"), a weakness that cannot be hidden, but the "one gender has it worse than the other" additive that is constantly thrown into the mix of this flavor of conversation just brings the topic down into the gutters.

Both suffer, being unattractive is bad news for everybody-man, woman, (biological or transitioning), gay or straight, this race or that race- to me none of their predicaments look any more appealing than the other when it comes to this.
Hell, even those considered "androgynous" can fall into one of two categories (good looking or unfortunate looking), and again, they will benefit from the former and suffer from the latter.
It's a sad affair.
We should offer sympathy and understanding to all of them.

And excuse my language and wording on this subject, I feel like it sounds as if I'm agreeing with how society and individuals operate in this way, when I absolutely do not.
I acknowledge the reality (try not to mince words) but choose not to personally perpetuate it, even if I desire and need to be comfortable in my own skin (as most humans do in order to thrive and express themselves), I make a conscious effort to never devalue someone (or close the figurative door on them) because of an exterior they had little to no say in, I also make it a point to stay away from sycophantic groveling in the presence of those who are attractive (which many others partake in, some don't even realize they're doing it half the time).
This requires a level of honesty with one's self that most are not willing to entertain, you (as in anyone) have to realize how you contribute to the problem, both overtly and covertly, whether it be blatant harassment/insults or more hidden disparities in how we treat and see one group versus the other.
Of course, my rejection of the status quo is not to say I see it all as irrelevant, I think landing one way or the other has a massive effect on where we end up in life, for better or worse..looks are damning.

All in all I think it's one of the most vile yet trite (in the manner that it should be considered of little import, yet isn't) aspects of humanity that most people just don't care to adapt themselves out of, especially when they are of the type it hardly affects/#blessed.
It's just another way human beings are set up to fail (or prosper), where which side we fall on is hardly ever in our control, yet we are severely punished or handsomely rewarded for it.

As for the worry about how much "love" you will receive based on appearances, some may find that question amusing but it actually has credence, leading to a fair point to be made.
Certainly the differences in how we are treated based on our appearance do not stop once we get into a relationship.
A lot of people like tossing around platitudes like "the grass isn't greener on the other side" or "But the beautiful people don't know who really loves them for them!", but it's nothing but a crock of shit (which I have expanded on in replies to similar posts, and will not be going as in depth about here).

The short of it is, the eyes wander..as an average (or sometimes even unattractive person), you may find luck in "love" (depending on how you define it) but may have to worry a little more (or far more) about just how long a partner will go without defaulting to a more animalistic and hierarchical approach to seeking and valuing a companion.
It's possible this could go the other way and someone could wipe the rosy tint from their eyes and realize that their Adonis or Aphrodite is a boring or shitty/incompatible SO, and leave to find someone who is slightly less attractive (but most likely still within the objective range of pleasant looking) but with a better head on their shoulders and values in their heart (still, like I said though, looks are almost never irrelevant..that's the problem).

Also, it's not exactly that people will only EVER (forever and always, on every count) see someone as strict assumptions and judgments surrounding their face and body, but rather which frame they prefer to peer through to begin with.
A physically beautiful person will receive countless admirers and opportunities to be SEEN and HEARD because they already have the world's attention, they flourish via the halo effect, and it can sometimes become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
They have more options and more people willing to find out what's behind that pretty face, more people willing to put up with the less satisfactory traits because the package they came in is nice enough to concede that the imperfections are just part of the "charm" (even if they're not).
Meanwhile unattractive (and even some average) people are not afforded this type of leniency and freedom to be themselves unabashedly, and so being "loved" can mean that stronger conditions and ultimatums are in place. So in this way, I can see why one would assert that they are receiving a less complete and generous "love" than their attractive counterparts. There is truth to that notion, as much as I hate to say it.


*I haven't slept in 48 hours so forgive me for any rambling and tangents that may need more fleshing out, I always tell myself I need to stop replying to topics like these but honestly I am far too invested (against my will) in the matter, it means a great deal to me that it is taken seriously because otherwise decent and worthwhile people are being destroyed over not only the superficiality itself, but the lack of compassion for its victims and the lack of a corrective response from society.
Thank you for your long and insightful reply.

I said that "appearance matters for men more than women" mainly due to my personal experience in life, but now after thinking over I realized that I did not make myself clear.

The average woman gets much more attention than the average man in the dating world, online or offline, but especially online. I'm not saying that men judge the appearances of the other sex less than women, and, just like you said, may even judge more harshly. What I'm trying to say is, due to the aforementioned phenomenon, much fewer women struggle to find someone who will accept them as a romantic partner than men. This means that if you are a woman whose attractiveness is in the bottom 20%(I made up the number), you are likely to have a easier time finding a romantic partner than a man of similar attractiveness. However, if you are in the bottom 1%(I also made this up), then you are out of luck regardless of your gender. For people who have no problem finding a partner and are more concerned about finding a more desirable one, things are probably radically different, as in your example of attractive woman with less attractive man vs the reverse.

I do agree that it is one of the fundamental evils of humanity, and I'm also making a conscious effort not to judge someone from their appearance. I do wish that more people will follow suit, but from my experience very few actually sees it as wrong, much less make an effort to resist this animalistic behavior.

I wish you good luck.

And I wish I could write as well as you.
 
GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic loser
Jan 26, 2021
5,739
I drank beer and can now comment on this. It's only over for guys who are really unlucky with several important stuff. I'd say the average guy will end up with the 7 relationships and two marriages or whatever the statistics show. I know that it's completely over for me, no matter what I look like. Waiting a little longer to ctb, probably should just get it over with ASAP if I'm being honest with myself.
 
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GrumpyFrog

GrumpyFrog

Exhausted
Aug 23, 2020
1,913
We all want a more attractive partner over a less attractive one...but the thing is that attractiveness doesn't only consist of the physical appearance and it's also highly subjective. One womans idea of attractive is another woman's worst nightmare and vice versa.

Here's a (maybe) interesting bit - about a year ago, I discovered the "r/truerateme" subreddit and saw their male and female guides for so called "objective attractiveness". Namely, it was just a bunch of pictures of men and women arranged by attractiveness based on their facial feautures, rated on 0 to 10 scale, from 0.5 to 9.5. Since I personally didn't agree with it at many points, I decided to conduct a small study. I created a simple javascript thingie that would show pictures of these people separately in random order, allow the person to rate them on their attractiveness on the same scale and then record the results. Then I let people I know pass this test for shits and giggles to find out how conventional or unconventional their tastes are. When it comes to male version I ended up surveying 34 women aged 13 to 49 and while I know it's not exactly enough people to call this statistics but I still got some interesting results. Namely that the rating was all over the place and only fit the original "correct rating" more or less when it comes to poor chaps under 3.0 on the scale. Pretty much everyone else got an average score between 4.5 and 7.0 (I did explain that no ones feelings will be hurt and 6.0 is actually a good score while 10 is basically a god, so they need to be objective). I had an attractive 22 year old girl rating a supposed 4.0 guy a 10, and one of the supposed 9.5 got a score under 3.5 from 4 different women, oh and the most fun of them all - not a single one of the surveyed women rated a single one of the supposed 9.5 guys a 10 or a 9.5. So based on this highly scientific research I officially declare all "objective attractivenes" studies a pile of BS. The conclusion is exactly as I expected - if you're really bad looking (the bottom 3% according to the guides) than it's sad news for you, but if you're the "average guy" someone out there probably thinks you're a 10, totally attractive and would pick you over others. That's based on facial features alone, not even taking into account the personality that can really turn things around for you, both in good and in a bad way.

I think the phenomenon of females getting more romantic attention simply stems from the fact that even in modern society women are judged harshly for being "easy" and basically for being more open to sexual or even just romantic relationship. So even when they are attracted to a guy they are often simply unwilling to show it, not wanting to be perceived in a negative light.

Anyway, I hope my stupid bit of statistics is encouraging and I wish you luck!
 
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HappyForever?

Love from the deepest dream
Feb 14, 2021
325
We all want a more attractive partner over a less attractive one...but the thing is that attractiveness doesn't only consist of the physical appearance and it's also highly subjective. One womans idea of attractive is another woman's worst nightmare and vice versa.

Here's a (maybe) interesting bit - about a year ago, I discovered the "r/truerateme" subreddit and saw their male and female guides for so called "objective attractiveness". Namely, it was just a bunch of pictures of men and women arranged by attractiveness based on their facial feautures, rated on 0 to 10 scale, from 0.5 to 9.5. Since I personally didn't agree with it at many points, I decided to conduct a small study. I created a simple javascript thingie that would show pictures of these people separately in random order, allow the person to rate them on their attractiveness on the same scale and then record the results. Then I let people I know pass this test for shits and giggles to find out how conventional or unconventional their tastes are. When it comes to male version I ended up surveying 34 women aged 13 to 49 and while I know it's not exactly enough people to call this statistics but I still got some interesting results. Namely that the rating was all over the place and only fit the original "correct rating" more or less when it comes to poor chaps under 3.0 on the scale. Pretty much everyone else got an average score between 4.5 and 7.0 (I did explain that no ones feelings will be hurt and 6.0 is actually a good score while 10 is basically a god, so they need to be objective). I had an attractive 22 year old girl rating a supposed 4.0 guy a 10, and one of the supposed 9.5 got a score under 3.5 from 4 different women, oh and the most fun of them all - not a single one of the surveyed women rated a single one of the supposed 9.5 guys a 10 or a 9.5. So based on this highly scientific research I officially declare all "objective attractivenes" studies a pile of BS. The conclusion is exactly as I expected - if you're really bad looking (the bottom 3% according to the guides) than it's sad news for you, but if you're the "average guy" someone out there probably thinks you're a 10, totally attractive and would pick you over others. That's based on facial features alone, not even taking into account the personality that can really turn things around for you, both in good and in a bad way.

I think the phenomenon of females getting more romantic attention simply stems from the fact that even in modern society women are judged harshly for being "easy" and basically for being more open to sexual or even just romantic relationship. So even when they are attracted to a guy they are often simply unwilling to show it, not wanting to be perceived in a negative light.

Anyway, I hope my stupid bit of statistics is encouraging and I wish you luck!
Well done. This is much more convincing than a bunch of people just saying "it's over" "it never began" over and over again.
 
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