Discussion Is death the end?

[J&L383]

I have no reasons to believe otherwise; yeah, i think death is the end of all experience.

Absolutely nothingness exists after existence ceases existing - probably.

 

[bananaolympus]

Is just comes to personal beliefs nobody can say with certainty if theres something or nothing after death, but it really doesn't matter to me because for example if is just nothingness then i wouldn't feel or think anything cease to exist but if like reincarnation is what happens i wouldn't know either because i would be a different thing

 

[exhumed101]

While I was very depressed and suicidal I started diving into spirituality and that stuff. I have become pretty convinced that there must be something to the universe. The world is very mystical and almost magic in a way if you really think about it. I don't believe that the big bang suddenly created the universe from nothing because something can't just come from nothing. There has to have been something before that, and before that, and before that in an infinite loop. So I think that the universe is infinite which kinda terrifies me. Does that mean there are infinite possibilites and outcomes, and that I am forever stuck in this universe because I came out of the world and not into it? Then how can people say for certain that death is the end when everything im made of comes from the universe itself. Why would I not come back again as something else in a million years? There's so much we don't know or can explain. The only thing we know for certain is your own existence and that you can't remember anything before this life, but most people don't even know who they are and only rely on labels, thoughts and upbringing etc. But if you ask yourself "Who am I?" you realize you're something much deeper than that. It's scary and relieving depending on how you look at it. I just can't stop thinking about this. Im very open minded so please share your thoughts if you agree or not.

I personally think that after death, you're simply resting but forever. I don't think there's heaven or hell.

 

[EmptyBottle]

While I was very depressed and suicidal I started diving into spirituality and that stuff. I have become pretty convinced that there must be something to the universe. The world is very mystical and almost magic in a way if you really think about it. I don't believe that the big bang suddenly created the universe from nothing because something can't just come from nothing. There has to have been something before that, and before that, and before that in an infinite loop. So I think that the universe is infinite which kinda terrifies me. Does that mean there are infinite possibilites and outcomes, and that I am forever stuck in this universe because I came out of the world and not into it? Then how can people say for certain that death is the end when everything im made of comes from the universe itself. Why would I not come back again as something else in a million years? There's so much we don't know or can explain. The only thing we know for certain is your own existence and that you can't remember anything before this life, but most people don't even know who they are and only rely on labels, thoughts and upbringing etc. But if you ask yourself "Who am I?" you realize you're something much deeper than that. It's scary and relieving depending on how you look at it. I just can't stop thinking about this. Im very open minded so please share your thoughts if you agree or not.

If there are infinite possibilities, then there are also good possibilities, not just bad.
I don't think there truly is infinite possibilities, because some things don't make sense... if it is possible for CTB to be undone with a computer click, and redone with a clap of ones hand, over and over a few times until one starts hallucinating some amazing visuals and sounds... well, that would sure be interesting

 

[Apathy79]

How do you explain people with Alzheimer's losing their entire identity and memories. It seems like your awareness or who you are dies along with your brain.

Unless the brain is just a conduit and you regain your memory/awareness as soon as you die. Sucks to be in such a limbo state for 5-10 years or however long it takes Alzheimer's to kill you. It's kind of the same when you're born, you don't really have any memories until 3-4 years in.

I don't know, with 8 billion people in the world, it just seems to me that our individual consciousness is not that important. I feel like it's our ego that thinks it should go on forever. I'm fine with total non existence after death.

Dementia is an interesting one but kind of a tangent to me. Quite a few of my relatives have dementia or had it before they died and I'll likely end up the same so it's on my mind a bit. I've had conversations with all of them where they could remember teenage memories vividly like it was yesterday and forget me entirely, or even what they ate 5 minutes ago. So there's a strange memory distortion going on in the brain. I already notice within myself that if I wake from a dream, I can almost never remember it, and even now when I'm walking on the beach thinking then lose my train of thought, it's just gone, I can't get back there. So something in my brain is misfiring, although not every time. And whatever that is will likely get worse over time until I end up with full blown dementia. So memory appears to be seated in the brain, which would explain not being able to recall past lives, because that brain is gone.

Awareness I know not to be seated in the brain from the NDE, so I expect it to continue beyond death. Similarly I know the eye doesn't see on its own, we see through it in the body, because I could see my own body in the NDE, so I'll probably see my body post death, although it's extremely unlikely I'll care about it, again like the NDE. I'm not sure about memory - ironically I can't remember if I could remember anything in that state - but possibly not using the earlier logic.

 

[telemark05]

Thanks for the reply. Though I have trouble with understanding your point. I consider consciousness limited to the dictionary definition: being aware of itself and its surroundings; a state of being conscious. You lose conscious when you faint and regain conscious when you awake. As such, you lose conscious when you die, becoming unconsciousness. But if you're talking about a higher consciousness then do you mean something immutable such as a soul, or spiritual energy?

I'm not sure how this ties into "death is not the end" without using theological arguments: the existence of a higher being that transcends the universe (physics/biology). I don't subscribe to these believes. I don't think you need consciousness itself (a higher consciousness?) to observe your surroundings or the universe. That would require me to ignore the laws of nature in favor of mysticism. I consider the brain capable of generating audiovisuals (dreams) without the need for something more such as a (higher) consciousness.

To clarify, would you mind pinpointing exactly the thing you believe exists? I understand the concept souls and spiritual energy, but don't understand what you mean by "it's the only thing that stays still while everything else is constantly changing." Does that mean this thing can become part of something new, such as in your example, "coming back again as something else in a million years?" I have trouble wrapping my mind around how such a thing would work.

Edit
I now read your last past: you're not talking about about souls or supernatural things. But I hope my other questions still stand.

What I meant by that is while your thoughts, emotions, body and identity etc is constantly changing there is something within you that observes this effect which is always still and that suggests that it's the most real and reliable thing you have. I think it's necessary to have this because to be able to differentiate you need something even or flat to begin with.

I believe in science, but science is used to measure and explain how the world works. They tell you what the stuff is and what it does, but what is it MADE of? Then you find nothing. Nothingness. It's like empty space holding everything together like a god. Nothingness is stillness, and we can't truly picture it in our minds because it is formless just like what we call consciousness. I am less negative about this now, because I think it's the same stillness, nothingness and peace you get if you were to burn all your thoughts, identifications and attachments so you were just conscious and nothing else. While you can't literally do that, I think you understand what I mean. This is why I believe that I am truly formless, and my body and brain are my tools and suit which we call a person, which is kind of like a mask. What is formless cannot die. Therefore I think I will go on after my brain and body dies, and I will experience the universe from a different point of view.

No one knows for certain though. I hope I clarified my beliefs well :)

 

[sevennn]

i dont know. i never died

 

[misanthropemurder]

we as mortals will never know for sure; but I certainly relate to becoming more spiritual as you get more depressed. In my opinion, death is the end of life as we can comprehend it. It's nice to envision it as just returning to nature, limbs entangled with tree roots.

 

[EmptyBottle]

Dementia is an interesting one but kind of a tangent to me. Quite a few of my relatives have dementia or had it before they died and I'll likely end up the same so it's on my mind a bit. I've had conversations with all of them where they could remember teenage memories vividly like it was yesterday and forget me entirely, or even what they ate 5 minutes ago. So there's a strange memory distortion going on in the brain. I already notice within myself that if I wake from a dream, I can almost never remember it, and even now when I'm walking on the beach thinking then lose my train of thought, it's just gone, I can't get back there. So something in my brain is misfiring, although not every time. And whatever that is will likely get worse over time until I end up with full blown dementia. So memory appears to be seated in the brain, which would explain not being able to recall past lives, because that brain is gone.

Awareness I know not to be seated in the brain from the NDE, so I expect it to continue beyond death. Similarly I know the eye doesn't see on its own, we see through it in the body, because I could see my own body in the NDE, so I'll probably see my body post death, although it's extremely unlikely I'll care about it, again like the NDE. I'm not sure about memory - ironically I can't remember if I could remember anything in that state - but possibly not using the earlier logic.

Dream and internal thoughts were designed to be temporary, so it takes a fair bit of effort to remember them in detail for long enough to write them down, sometimes it can take a bit of time (and silence) to backtrack thru general topics and find the near original thought, sometime the chain is unreachable and fades away.
Dementia's distortion seems to be loss of short term memory, that has less effect on long term memories (but will probably eventually affect them). Even then, heart attack and similar is still possible.
It's cool that you got to experience NDE, feel free to describe what you can remember of it if u wish.

 

[Pessimist]

I think that death is the end.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Is Death the end:

I F**KING HOPE SO !!!!

 

[Apathy79]

Dream and internal thoughts were designed to be temporary, so it takes a fair bit of effort to remember them in detail for long enough to write them down, sometimes it can take a bit of time (and silence) to backtrack thru general topics and find the near original thought, sometime the chain is unreachable and fades away.
Dementia's distortion seems to be loss of short term memory, that has less effect on long term memories (but will probably eventually affect them). Even then, heart attack and similar is still possible.
It's cool that you got to experience NDE, feel free to describe what you can remember of it if u wish.

Oh it's the 9th post of the thread. My comment would have looked pretty vague without seeing it!

 

[EmptyBottle]

Oh it's the 9th post of the thread. My comment would have looked pretty vague without seeing it!

Thanks, I didn't read the thread thoroughly (SaSu links to the latest page for new replies), will take took a read... cool. ^u^

 

[thereisnoneed]

none has returned after they died to tell us, i am an atheist-materialist, and i am not even sure what is there after death, but I assume it's most likely us returning to the state that we were in before we were born, once your brain stops working, everything else in your body goes off.