Discussion Is CTB selfish? How do you deal with the guilt of it

[anopenwound]

@cheyxnn She's still here cause she's exceptional. That doesn't mean anything per se. It surely doesn't mean I'm worth it. If I was life wouldn't have turned the way it has.

 

[JustAnx]

No human being depends on me financially. And very very few care about me. And those who care about me, if i were to depart would be very sad, buy they would know that i did it to not suffer anymore.

 

[pariah80]

I'm very sorry for that... truly. For most, children/parents have unconditional love but you are correct that it depends on the circumstances. I'm not and can't judge anyone because I am going to be doing it and I will be judged. However, the OP asked if suicide is selfish.....I can only say that in many cases, based on the definition, it is. I am going to be creating pain and suffering and trauma for my loved ones because I need to end my own immense pain and suffering.... Therefore, I am putting my "need" to end it above what they are going to have to endure as a result. I'm not speaking for you. I should have worded my response differently.

On the same token, you said, "If I had young children or someone who was dependent on me, then I would not even consider ctb. I guess it CAN be selfish in that regard." Unfortunately, I fall into this camp and I never could have or would have thought to do something like this but when you have been injured in such a rare way that you are suffering immensely, it's like being in a burning building you need to escape from. No one could imagine it and as you said, shouldn't judge another. But I feel incredibly judged and guilty based on what you said. I don't want to leave or hurt my loved ones....

For what it's worth, I am sorry you had horrible parents. I'm not trying to lay guilt on anyone. I should have worded things a bit differently and I apologize for that.

No, you said what you said. I'm not offended in the least, nor take it as combative. I appreciate the sympathy. I'm not judging you nor anyone. I, personally, would consider it selfish of me to bring my baby into this world (thank the universe that I don't have children) and catch the bus on them. Or if I had at least a functional relationship with my parents, and they got up to where they couldn't take care of themselves and depended on me. At that point, life stops being about me. My child is the only thing that would matter to me. Now, when they get older and can take care of themselves, I'd proceed to do it and try to make them understand why I had to.

I get it. The pain can just become too unbearable. If one wants to think of that as being selfish, then so be it. I totally sympathize with you, though.

 

[DontTouchMeImFamous]

I think it is tbh. How do I deal with the guilt of it? I tell myself that I will be so dead by then to ever feel guilty or worry about people I left. And I personally believe that guilt, regret, and even empathy are emotions only the alive can feel. When I'm dead, I won't be able to feel these things as these feelings are mere hormones, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[suffering_mo]

No, you said what you said. I'm not offended in the least, nor take it as combative. I appreciate the sympathy. I'm not judging you nor anyone. I, personally, would consider it selfish of me to bring my baby into this world (thank the universe that I don't have children) and catch the bus on them. Or if I had at least a functional relationship with my parents, and they got up to where they couldn't take care of themselves and depended on me. At that point, life stops being about me. My child is the only thing that would matter to me. Now, when they get older and can take care of themselves, I'd proceed to do it and try to make them understand why I had to.

I get it. The pain can just become too unbearable. If one wants to think of that as being selfish, then so be it. I totally sympathize with you, though.

Thank you for understanding. For me, it's not just depression, etc. I have a lot of neurological issues and physical pain and rare conditions that make me miserable.... plus brain damage and extreme depression. Otherwise, I would never leave them. EVER. The pain of that adds to my suffering so much.

 

[kvsvenky100]

Forcing others to live is selfish, not suicide.

 

[TAW122]

While from the others' pov it is selfish, I don't think the argument of selfishness is really a strong enough one to obstruct or forbid someone from either not going or going through with it. After all, throughout most of humanity, human nature has always been inherently selfish. I won't get into a whole discussion (that's better for a thread in philosophy though) about selfishness. As for the guilt of things, I believe it will be subjective and will vary between each individual greatly. Some people have people in their lives they don't want to let down or feel bad when they choose to CTB while others don't mind or isn't really deterred as much. As for myself, I take the perspective of that life is full of suffering, I never (or rather nobody who is sentient) actively or intentionally chose to be sentient or alive - it just happened we are, and this is why we are in this mess to begin with! So in that case, while there is some guilt about how people will feel sad, I'm ultimately going to do what is best for me (which sadly still means I have to fight my SI on the moment I attempt - which I won't truly know until the very moment itself) and after all, nobody but myself is experiencing my life for my own and I know what is best for my life (better than my kin, better than my close acquaintances, friends, etc.).

 

[passer-by]

Again, this is assuming "unconditional love" from parents and children. That's not always the case. I come from a mother and father who didn't love me. I've run into too many people who came from the same or similar backgrounds. I can kind of rock with the idea that children will be more devastated, particularly if they're dependent upon someone who catches the bus. However, to assume that everyone has so-called loved ones is a misinterpretation of reality. YOU, in particular, may have loved ones. A lot of other people don't. So, telling someone that they're being selfish for their decision, or having the audacity to judge someone who does it, is a bit short sighted.

Yeah I don't think "unconditional" love is possible in this realm. Purely because of our programming, we're wired to take care of number one, our children are extension of ourselves, they carry our DNA and similar personality traits, so we "love" them, because through them we shall continue living, even after we're gone.

Some parents don't have this instinct strong enough, because there's something wrong with them, which they need to take care of first, not really out of malicious reasons, even though we sometimes label them as such. Just as in nature, mother will put herself first when there's no more food left, not because she doesn't care, but because she knows she would simply not survive and neither her children if she continued on giving out of an empty cup. So she chooses to preserve at least herself.

Same way with children. They "love" us because human babies especially, are very fragile and incredibly dependant on their parents for many years, they would not survive without their care. So they will conform and do anything to seem "lovable" and survive.

This also explains why some of us would submit to an an extended periods of abuse and still seek a love and attention from that person. If you once lived with a parent who acted in a similar way, you would still choose the abuse over death, as the survival instinct is the strongest one there is.

That being said I believe there's "unconditional love", but it's very rare and impractical and most probably only reserved for someone who overcame this body and mind first, such as in a story of Buddha.

 

[Dionysus]

In my case I believe I'm doing the right thing for myself and for the people around me. It's a very honorable thing IMO I have no problems with it

 

[nattys5thtoenail]

Technically you can argue that most of humanity is selfish, like you mentioned your parents, you could also hypothetically argue that it's selfish of them to have a child and then expect them to not eventually CTB so they can keep them happy. It's all up to you but don't feel bad for wanting to escape a fucked up world you had no say in being born into. You aren't selfish for peacefully wanting to leave this world when all options haven't worked out for you. Best of everything

 

[rhiino]

Yes, in some way suicide is selfish. You may hurt people that you love and leave them back devastated. Depending on your situation, when the people you love are already hurt by your existence and actions, it might in the long run be best for them. I am struggling with this a lot.

And this feeling is only worse with my best friend, I literally love her to death she's my favourite person ever. We've always said that if soulmates (platonically lol) are real that we would be proof of that . God, just thinking about her after my death makes me uncontrollably sob, even as I'm writing this I'm holding back tears. Whenever she talks about our futures about how our kids have to be friends and how we're going to grow old together etc and I just have to lie about all of it. She's honestly the only thing that makes me second guess whether I should ctb or not as I think maybe I should just stay alive for her and cope. But then is that much of a life for me? I don't want the same things as her, I never have - all I've ever wanted was to be nothing at all.

I feel like ctb is all just so selfish - I mean in ending my life so that I can feel better, it just means I make the lives of those who I love worse. I know my passing would devastate my friend and idk if she would recover - at least with my parents they're not young and have experienced life, but with her she's so young and I don't want her to have to live the rest of her life with grief. But then I feel this grief every single day and don't think I can deal with it anymore myself. I know it's selfish but I'm just not strong and really don't think I can do this anymore, I only ever think about death nowadays.

I cannot put into words how much I can relate to you.
I have a soulmate as well, that I love more than anything and more than I could anybody else love. It is my brother. I have the same feelings as you. When I think of him and how he would feel when I ctb invokes excrutiating emotional pain. I had tears in my eyes when I read your lines because I can empathise so much and have tears in my eyes writing this.
My brother is young as well and has not yet completely started his own life. I do not want to ruin his, but my existence did harm him as well. I know for sure he would be sad on every anniversary of my death, every birthday etc. and miss me incredibly.

I have guilt about being alive 'cause I'm trying to get better but I can't. I relate to what @willitpass was sayin - I'm trying as hard as I can to do my due diligence. I'm trying as hard as I can to be someone good and do good by others and the causes I care about. Yet my life is a source of hurt for people I care about. Yet I'm still horrible, fucked in the head, a disgrace. I think people might be hurt in the short term and relieved in the long run. No more complexities in their relationship. No more emergencies, no more drama, no more rescuing me from a catatonic state where I'm impossible to reach. No more conflict. No more crying. No more pointless hurting. It will all stop being complicated all the damn time.
I'm tired of bringing this upon other people, most of all my best friend. I relate to a lot of what I've read in this thread. She's my soulmate. I didn't know I could feel this at ease with someone before I met her. I can't imagine my life without her. But I can't imagine it anyway.
She always has to pick up the pieces and it's so, so unfair. She's so good and she does so much all the time. She'd deserve a time out and I can't offer her that. I'm trying to be more like her. I'm trying to be someone who people can lean onto. But I'm such a mess.
I love her more than anything else, more than anybody else. I wish I could be the best friend she deserves. I'm constantly failing and she still puts up with me. Writing this makes me cry. I just want to get out so her life can be easier.

I can relate so much.
I feel guilt for being alive as well and being so ill and not able to get better. The pain I inflicted on my loved ones is just not fair and wrong. My soulmate is my brother, who I love more than anything and more than I could anybody else love. He does not deserve me, he deserves better. I heavily impacted his life negatively and I don't know if it wasn't better for him if I was just dead.
The problem is, I can never know. I do not know if it devastates him so much, that his life gets even worse. I feel guilt for not having killed myself sooner, so that he would not have suffered so much under my problems.

I feel incredible guilt, pain and suffering just by thinking about what my intentional death is going to do to the ones I love. It's indescribable and makes my suffering so much worse. If my physical and neurological pain wasn't so high, I would stay just for them.

I feel you . It is a special torture to be suicidal and have people you love that love you as well.

People are drawn to suicide after losing people to suicide. Some people fall into a deep depression they never get out of. It does ruin lives. And even the ones who are able to get back up and carry on don't just "get over it", especially not quickly. Every holiday or birthday or big life event is a reminder of someone who isn't around.

This is true and it is very hard to cope with when you plan to ctb.

I always got hooked on the fixation of reincarnation or a "reset", to redo the fucked up aspects of my life, but dead men tell no tales.

Hey, I also thought about this a lot. To just redo everything again, but do not make the same mistakes again and be prepared.

Like- people who feel like they have no one may be suicidal because of that but then, they also don't have that holding them back.

True, in some way I envy people that have nobody and commit suicide without worrying about anybody's pain.

I'm ultimately going to do what is best for me (which sadly still means I have to fight my SI on the moment I attempt - which I won't truly know until the very moment itself)

SI can be very tough. I am kind of appealed by methods that leave it open if you succeed or not, that way you can persuade yourself that it will fail anyway.

In my case I believe I'm doing the right thing for myself and for the people around me. It's a very honorable thing IMO I have no problems with it

I understand where you are coming from. Whey you have a negative impact on others, it may be best and redemptive/relieving for them and can be honorable as well. I have similar thoughts, but am not too sure about them.

 

[Tombs_in_your_eyes]

How I deal with the guilt of it is to think back to conversations I had with my mom, when I was about 19 or 20 and had been excruciatingly suicidal for years. She had witnessed how severely I was suffering and for how long. Mom told me on multiple occasions that if the only way out of my suffering turned out to be suicide, even after I'd tried everything else e.g. therapy and medication, then she would understand, and would support me. Because she couldn't bear to see her child suffering so severely without end.

And having acquired new physical disabilities as an adult, which prevent me from doing 99.5% of human activities, mom has told me that had she known how severely and permanently disabled I would be, she would for my sake have not given birth to me. (She knows I would prefer not to have been born.)

My mom loves me with the intensity of a thousand suns - she is always telling me that I am the light of her life, her treasure, that caring for me (I have fairly intensive care needs) is what gives her life meaning and purpose above all else, and so on. If she can forgive me for both wanting to and actually killing myself, I can forgive myself for doing so after she dies, too.

I wish I could donate my mom to all of you for an hour, so she could show you the compassion and forgiveness that she has shown me.