Given the fact that one's gender and lack of romantic/sexual connections are a factor in suicide, it is very relevant. All because you are not on this site because of either, doesn't mean others whom are on here for those reasons cannot vent.
This site doesn't revolve around you I am sorry to say.
Did I say people couldn't vent?
I made it clear that my objection lay in the fact that these threads often veer into general discussions about sex and gender. The original post may be focused on the OPs own experience, and some of the replies will be people sharing their experiences. But you can't deny that these discussions often veer into general discussions about sex and gender, and toxic arguements about 'who's got it worse' etc.
So, what other reasons are invalid to CTB, according to you?...
Your intentions may not be malevolent, but this is a dangerous, degrading, unnecessarily slippery slope I don't think you want to slide down.
Honestly, no matter the reason (or lack thereof), everyone deserves autonomy and the ability to end their own life, if they so choose. Who are you to say otherwise?
If you're offended, tired, irritated, burnt out, overwhelmed, even crass... just turn it off, man. Move on and engage in what you find valid and important. It really is that simple.
Please tell me where I said that struggling with relationships, gender or sex based discrimination, or gender identity are not valid reasons to CTB.
I am fine with people discussing their own experiences; is that not clear from my original post?
What I object to is the tendency for these threads to derail into childish arguments usually along the lines of 'who's got it worse', and even full blown political discussions about sex, and gender identity.
if a person's post is about, or even just connects to their experience of their existence, identities will always be an inherent factor in their 'voice', 'how they got here', etc. yes, to a point identity is political but at what point do we determine their personhood as also political? I only mean that a person's motive to CTB, or considering it, will of course be informed by their experiences and those experiences will (often) be shaped by the way they individually navigate the world. whether gender, sexuality, illness or disability, financial stability, race or culture, the list goes on and on, .. any post in which a person provides any background as to why they want out or to CTB or however one might otherwise employ euphemism is automatically going to include factors of their lived experience.
to echo the many others, if a title is too vague or brief and the first three sentences trouble you, you are under no obligation to continue to trouble yourself.
breaking down these arguably, questionably 'political' posts into each their own subsection would result, probably, imo, in a large and growing number of subsections, which frankly, given that the posts of grievance aren't political stances being stated, feels unnecessarily divisive.
people have countless possible reasons to be on the forum, and to consider CTB. we don't have to agree or validate or even read. it feels a bit extreme to say, though, 'I can't relate, and find it irksome, therefore, away with it'.
edit: just want to add, if a post veers so off topic that it either is or becomes primarily debate etc., where it would be clearly better suited in a politics or philosophy subsection, I've no qualms there. I've no qualms with the existence of these sections, my response was meant to be about posts relevant for this section that might have the context mentioned by OP.
Sure, I have no issue with anyone discussing their personal experiences of being a man/woman/trans, and sharing how that experiences contributes to their desire to CTB. My issue with these posts, (tbh it's more often the replies to the posts than the posts themselves), is that they derail into
general discussions of sex and gender, and toxic arguments about 'who has it worse' etc.
BTW, I never said that I couldn't relate to the content of these posts. I think it shows how toxic the 'gender wars' have become that several users made the assumption that I could not relate to their experiences of struggling with dating, relationships etc.
The problem with these kinds of arguments is that they ignore that SS is a
community. Discussions about sex and gender that focus on the broader social experiences of men and women, and most importantly, arguments about who has it worse, contributes to discord within the community, and users who would otherwise get along may begin to harbor resentment toward one another.
Politics come into play here in a few valid ways, like news about K. Law, dignitas, MAID, etc, or just plain right to die laws. Those are all politics. And for trans people, quite specifically, in a day by day kind of immediacy, politics shapes and withholds what they consider to be key factors for quality of life. If you need to learn that, then it's probably best if you do see such posts. But that's a little high-roadish of me, a cheap shot, and I'm ashamed of my words, even as I post them. I'm sorry for the virtue-signalling, and I promise it left a bad taste in my mouth.
On a site that exists because of free speech, it's in bad form to go around trying to edit people, especially when politics, specifically, can in a very real way, contribute to peoples' wish to have nothing to do with this life.
Discussions of right-to-die and assisted suicide are clearly relevant to suicide in general; arguments about the relationship between sex and gender (which trans threads often derail into) are not. I have seen several trans threads, and they seem to always end in arguments between the same groups of users about this topic. Why do we need that, especially on the
suicide sub-forum?
What do you mean by 'sex and gender in a political context'? Please don't tell me you're objecting to discussions about gender dysphoria and being trans??
No, I don't objective to discussions about being trans; neither do I object to discussions about being a man, or being a woman.
What I have noticed, is that posts by trans people tend to derail into arguments between users about the nature of the relationship between sex and gender; these discussions are not situated in the context of the OPs
own experience, but of the
general relationship between the two things. The disctinction is pretty clear to me.
No, it should not. I don't get why this is so hard for you to grasp, but there's nothing political about the existence of trans people. Would you say the same if it was a different form of bigotry? Why do you feel the need to demean other people on a forum for suicidal people? If it's a person's reasoning for wanting to die, then it goes in the suicide discussion section. That's what the mods and administrator say, so deal with it. You can even ask @RainAndSadness about it yourself. She's made her position pretty clear.
The problem is not suicidal trans people making threads about our experiences; the problem is the fucking assholes who come in and start arguments every single time a trans person posts something. Maybe we wouldn't need to post this many threads if people would stop politicizing our fucking existence.
OP and not the person you responded to, but my argument is that threads posted by trans people about their experiences predictably derail into arguments between users with different political views. These discussions lead to conflict within the community, and could be avoided if both kinds of users simply limited their discussion to the experiences of the OP. The same applies to discussions about men and women.
