Is anyone else tired of gender posting on this forum?

[Rumi]

I have noticed more and more posts on the Suicide discussion sub-forum that focus on gender and sex. I understand that for many people their sex and their experience of being of being a man or a woman contributes to their desire to CTB, but these posts often go far beyond merely discussing the OPs own experience; they often quickly veer into discussions of sex and gender in a political context, and in my opinion political isssues do not belong on the suicide sub-forum, especially when we have the Politics and Philosophy sub-forums dedicated to such discussions.

These threads may become a major source of conflict in the future, and it might be worth considering nipping this trend in the bud before it gets worse.

 

[unnormal9]

Of course.

 

[SoftWorries]

Shouldn't this post be off topic?

 

[nerve]

it's just not a very interesting topic to me.

 

[Wkoncuodejde]

Just avoid posts that touch topics that tired you.
You can often see from the titles that it is worth skipping a given post and that's it.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Doesn't bother me.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Given the fact that one's gender and lack of romantic/sexual connections are a factor in suicide, it is very relevant. All because you are not on this site because of either, doesn't mean others whom are on here for those reasons cannot vent.

This site doesn't revolve around you I am sorry to say.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I agree with the other poster in the if you don't like the discussion of gender and sex, just don't read any of those types of threads. Also, I think CTB itself has strong political undertones to it, so I don't understand why this type of discussion is being called out. A lot of topics that people post quickly veer off-topic. I think if you make these types of discussion be placed elsewhere, it invalidates this as a legitimate reason for CTB. If we start doing this, maybe we should make those young 15 and 16 years olds who come on here and who just broke up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, which, actually, happens to just about everyone in life and is just part of growing up,anyway, put their postings in another section, too. You don't like the gender/sex discussions, someone else doesn't like this, someone else doesn't like that - where does it end?

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Don't like? Don't read.

 

[Disappointered]

It was interesting to learn that some people believed that Eon de Beauvais was trans....(I have zero respect for anyone who attacked me on the Jean-Michel Macron thread).

 

[fuzzy-clown]

You can ignore people who frequently post about gender by hovering over their name and clicking the Ignore button.
I propose there be a canned response reminding people that threads in this section are for supporting the OP and not for debating politics, and link them to a gender discussion megathread in the politics section.

 

[Meretricious]

I have noticed more and more posts on the Suicide discussion sub-forum that focus on gender and sex. I understand that for many people their sex and their experience of being of being a man or a woman contributes to their desire to CTB, but these posts often go far beyond merely discussing the OPs own experience; they often quickly veer into discussions of sex and gender in a political context, and in my opinion political isssues do not belong on the suicide sub-forum, especially when we have the Politics and Philosophy sub-forums dedicated to such discussions.

These threads may become a major source of conflict in the future, and it might be worth considering nipping this trend in the bud before it gets worse.

So, what other reasons are invalid to CTB, according to you?...

Your intentions may not be malevolent, but this is a dangerous, degrading, unnecessarily slippery slope I don't think you want to slide down.

Honestly, no matter the reason (or lack thereof), everyone deserves autonomy and the ability to end their own life, if they so choose. Who are you to say otherwise?

If you're offended, tired, irritated, burnt out, overwhelmed, even crass... just turn it off, man. Move on and engage in what you find valid and important. It really is that simple.

 

[Pluto]

 

[CTB Dream]

Vent ok all ppl disadv be m w etc ,attk inoce no

 

[unnormal9]

Don't like? Don't read.

Don't like? Post to your profile journal.
Vent there.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Don't like? Post to your profile journal.
Vent there.

That would be the right way to use a forum indeed...

 

[Vizzy]

Don't like? Don't read.

People will become more suicidal reading those and you don't know what's the topic is about unless you read the op comments or other comments because most of the time title are vague!

I agree with the other poster in the if you don't like the discussion of gender and sex, just don't read any of those types of threads. Also, I think CTB itself has strong political undertones to it, so I don't understand why this type of discussion is being called out. A lot of topics that people post quickly veer off-topic. I think if you make these types of discussion be placed elsewhere, it invalidates this as a legitimate reason for CTB. If we start doing this, maybe we should make those young 15 and 16 years olds who come on here and who just broke up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, which, actually, happens to just about everyone in life and is just part of growing up,anyway, put their postings in another section, too. You don't like the gender/sex discussions, someone else doesn't like this, someone else doesn't like that - where does it end?

It should end up in off topic ——-> politics and philosophy!

 

[sourpink]

if a person's post is about, or even just connects to their experience of their existence, identities will always be an inherent factor in their 'voice', 'how they got here', etc. yes, to a point identity is political but at what point do we determine their personhood as also political? I only mean that a person's motive to CTB, or considering it, will of course be informed by their experiences and those experiences will (often) be shaped by the way they individually navigate the world. whether gender, sexuality, illness or disability, financial stability, race or culture, the list goes on and on, .. any post in which a person provides any background as to why they want out or to CTB or however one might otherwise employ euphemism is automatically going to include factors of their lived experience.
to echo the many others, if a title is too vague or brief and the first three sentences trouble you, you are under no obligation to continue to trouble yourself.
breaking down these arguably, questionably 'political' posts into each their own subsection would result, probably, imo, in a large and growing number of subsections, which frankly, given that the posts of grievance aren't political stances being stated, feels unnecessarily divisive.
people have countless possible reasons to be on the forum, and to consider CTB. we don't have to agree or validate or even read. it feels a bit extreme to say, though, 'I can't relate, and find it irksome, therefore, away with it'.

edit: just want to add, if a post veers so off topic that it either is or becomes primarily debate etc., where it would be clearly better suited in a politics or philosophy subsection, I've no qualms there. I've no qualms with the existence of these sections, my response was meant to be about posts relevant for this section that might have the context mentioned by OP.

 

[Unending]

Political discussion for the sake of itself isn't too relevant to this section but assuming the op began the thread with "This makes me suicidal because x y z" instead of "Lets talk about politics" then I'd find it appropriate here. People's lives do get wrapped up in politics and all that.

 

[unnormal9]

That would be the right way to use a forum indeed...

i didn't like it either. but i had no choice. i was told too that the main forum isn't my journal either.

 

[Aisley]

Politics come into play here in a few valid ways, like news about K. Law, dignitas, MAID, etc, or just plain right to die laws. Those are all politics. And for trans people, quite specifically, in a day by day kind of immediacy, politics shapes and withholds what they consider to be key factors for quality of life. If you need to learn that, then it's probably best if you do see such posts. But that's a little high-roadish of me, a cheap shot, and I'm ashamed of my words, even as I post them. I'm sorry for the virtue-signalling, and I promise it left a bad taste in my mouth.
On a site that exists because of free speech, it's in bad form to go around trying to edit people, especially when politics, specifically, can in a very real way, contribute to peoples' wish to have nothing to do with this life.

 

[EmmaD]

I have noticed more and more posts on the Suicide discussion sub-forum that focus on gender and sex. I understand that for many people their sex and their experience of being of being a man or a woman contributes to their desire to CTB, but these posts often go far beyond merely discussing the OPs own experience; they often quickly veer into discussions of sex and gender in a political context, and in my opinion political isssues do not belong on the suicide sub-forum, especially when we have the Politics and Philosophy sub-forums dedicated to such discussions.

These threads may become a major source of conflict in the future, and it might be worth considering nipping this trend in the bud before it gets worse.

What do you mean by 'sex and gender in a political context'? Please don't tell me you're objecting to discussions about gender dysphoria and being trans??

 

[LaVieEnRose]

who just broke up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, which, actually, happens to just about everyone in life and is just part of growing up,

Oof, right in my feelings.

(Actually, I don't really care that much)

 

[borderline-feline]

It should end up in off topic ——-> politics and philosophy!

No, it should not. I don't get why this is so hard for you to grasp, but there's nothing political about the existence of trans people. Would you say the same if it was a different form of bigotry? Why do you feel the need to demean other people on a forum for suicidal people? If it's a person's reasoning for wanting to die, then it goes in the suicide discussion section. That's what the mods and administrator say, so deal with it. You can even ask @RainAndSadness about it yourself. She's made her position pretty clear.

The problem is not suicidal trans people making threads about our experiences; the problem is the fucking assholes who come in and start arguments every single time a trans person posts something. Maybe we wouldn't need to post this many threads if people would stop politicizing our fucking existence.

 

[howl pendragon]

I can't even describe the feeling this post generated in me. It is partly shocking to see this type of repression in a forum focused precisely on suicide (and about the pain that it is), but also it is partly resignation due to the fact that, being a prejudice so present in society, it is clear that even here there would not be a welcoming space for people trans.

I find myself speechless. Disappointed but not surprised. After all, in a society that screams "get your politics out of my game" to any game that gets out of the curve and tries to open the range of inclusion to things beyond the ruling straight cis standard.

Being trans is political. Being trans IS being a statistic. And we don't even have an effing choice about it. It's fearing for your life. It is to fear prejudice, even within your own family. It's fearing to look in the mirror, because the image it reflects hurts us. It's looking at our body and wanting to mutilate ourselves so we don't feel the pain of seeing parts that cause us dysphoria. And it is wishing to die every day so as not to live one more day in an existence that causes us so much pain, pain caused by ourselves in our expectations and dysphoria, and by others, judging, pointing, criticizing, invalidating and abusing.

Do not believe my words? Do a little search. That's what I came up in less than 5 min research with the keywords "transgender life expectancy":

www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/09/02/transgender-people-twice-as-likely-to-die-as-cisgender-people-study-finds/?sh=7d1823fe5f48

The increased risk did not fall over the almost five decades studied between 1972 and 2018, according to an analysis of medical records from nearly 3,000 trans women and more than 1,600 trans men treated at the Amsterdam University Medical Center, which treats around 90% of trans people in the country.

Trans women had particularly elevated risks of death—notably from heart disease, lung cancer, HIV-related illness and suicide—the researchers noted, and were almost twice as likely to die than cis men and nearly three times as likely to die than cis women.

There were no differences in the risks of death between trans and cisgender men, the study found, though the group was almost twice as likely to die than cis women, especially from non-natural causes like suicide.

Trans adults are at a much greater risk of dealing with suicidal thoughts and attempting suicide than cisgender adults, as well as more likely to experience homelessness, violence and discrimination.

ksj.mit.edu/news/2019/11/25/transgender-in-latin-america/

Roughly three out of four trans people in Latin America were kicked out of their homes as children. More than half have faced discrimination by healthcare providers. If you are transgender in Latin America, you can expect to live only about half as long as your cisgender peers.

Edited by Knight Science Journalism alumnus Iván Carillo and reported by journalists from Mexico, Costa Rica, Venezuela, and Argentina, "Transgender in Latin America" combines text and interactive graphics to paint a portrait of the stigmas associated with being trans in Latin America, the legal barriers that trans people face throughout the region, and the shifting science behind treatments of gender dysphoria.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/oct/08/trans-women-in-colombia

South America's macho culture, combined with the strong influence of the Catholic church, means it is a particularly difficult place to be a transgender woman like Salamanca. In the past eight years, 74% of all reported murders of trans people were in Central and South America, according to a 2016 report from Transgender Europe (TGEU). Due to violence, poverty and the risk of HIV, the life expectancy for trans women in Latin America is estimated at between 35 and 41 years.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/16/us-trans-non-binary-youth-suicide-mental-health

States where lawmakers have aggressively pursued anti-trans legislation, including Texas and Arkansas, have extraordinarily high levels of suicide risk, though the rates are nearly as high in some progressive states, including New York, California and Oregon.

In California, the most populous state, which recently passed a law to protect trans youth, 44% of LGBTQ+ youth considered suicide and 14% attempted suicide, the survey found; for trans and non-binary respondents, the findings were worse, with 54% considering and 19% attempting suicide. And 70% of LGBTQ+ youth in the state said they had experienced discrimination, with 62% saying they were not able to access mental health care.

The rates of trans and nonbinary youth who seriously considered suicide were similar in the next largest states, at 56% in Texas; 54% in Florida; 50% in New York; 54% in Pennsylvania; 51% in Illinois; 54% in Ohio; 55% in Georgia; 53% in North Carolina; and 52% in Michigan. And 16-20% of trans and non-binary youth reported attempting suicide across these states. A majority also said they wanted, but did not receive care.

When we talk about gender, we have people venting their pain. And when talking about pain, this message came to mind, beautifully written by this user, a day or two ago:

Some people are here in desperation over a distressing situation. A loving response might give them validation, share similar experiences or offer genuinely constructive suggestions for overcoming the hardship. (Not generic silliness like, 'You have so much to live for.')

If all else fails and a suicide is to be completed, what people want is the closest thing possible to a deathbed gathering, or going to sleep for the last time in the loving embrace of someone who cares.

The challenge comes when some people's mental health makes love, or even appropriate social behaviour, a mere intellectual concept. Hence their output may come across as mechanical or soulless - sometimes bringing politics or method info into a goodbye thread, for example. Maybe they need love most of all? Or perhaps we should better enforce higher standards of respect for others. Or the loving thing could be to let them be. You decide.

You see posts about gender and maybe think about how "boring" this is for you, and maybe want to push it to a more "comfortable" place. I see someone who feels a pain that is very familiar to me and others like me. For you, maybe it's just an intellectual matter. For me, it's visceral.

For you, it's politics. For me, it's the reality of my day to day life.

Sorry if my existence is "too political" for your privilege.

 

[ge0rge]

where my terfs at

 

[Vizzy]

No, it should not. I don't get why this is so hard for you to grasp, but there's nothing political about the existence of trans people. Would you say the same if it was a different form of bigotry? Why do you feel the need to demean other people on a forum for suicidal people? If it's a person's reasoning for wanting to die, then it goes in the suicide discussion section. That's what the mods and administrator say, so deal with it. You can even ask @RainAndSadness about it yourself. She's made her position pretty clear.

The problem is not suicidal trans people making threads about our experiences; the problem is the fucking assholes who come in and start arguments every single time a trans person posts something. Maybe we wouldn't need to post this many threads if people would stop politicizing our fucking existence.

I just don't understand, why your replies are always rude and hostile if you don't like the other person replies , I didn't mention anywhere or talk about the existence of trans people because I have my own problems, why I should ask admin about their stance because they have their own opinions and I have mine

The problem is not suicidal trans people making threads about our experiences; the problem is the fucking assholes who come in and start arguments every single time a trans person posts something. Maybe we wouldn't need to post this many threads if people would stop politicizing our fucking existence.

I didn't bring it or argue about any of it, you mentioned above so I don't know why you talking about all these in this context as I told I have my own problems to deal with

I agree with the other poster in the if you don't like the discussion of gender and sex, just don't read any of those types of threads. Also, I think CTB itself has strong political undertones to it, so I don't understand why this type of discussion is being called out. A lot of topics that people post quickly veer off-topic. I think if you make these types of discussion be placed elsewhere, it invalidates this as a legitimate reason for CTB. If we start doing this, maybe we should make those young 15 and 16 years olds who come on here and who just broke up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, which, actually, happens to just about everyone in life and is just part of growing up,anyway, put their postings in another section, too. You don't like the gender/sex discussions, someone else doesn't like this, someone else doesn't like that - where does it end?

You asked everyone where it should end so I gave you my opinion, It should end up in off topic ——-> politics and philosophy!

 

[borderline-feline]

I just don't understand, why your replies are always rude and hostile if you don't like the other person replies , I didn't mention anywhere or talk about the existence of trans people because I have my own problems, why I should ask admin about their stance because they have their own opinions and I have mine



I didn't bring it or argue about any of it, you mentioned above so I don't know why you talking about all these in this context as I told I have my own problems to deal with

Great, tone policing. You must be fun at parties.

I was rude because what you said was incredibly demeaning. How would you feel if I told you that every single post you make about your reasons for wanting to die belongs in the politics section? You'd be pretty irritated because of how stupid of a claim it is.

I said you should ask her because I figured that that might get you to shut up about this. You were wrong; just admit it.

 

[Rocinante]

No, but it's annoying that people try to vent and soys will invalidate their experiences. Especially when people aren't asking for advice or input. There should be an option to remove comments from your posts

 

[Myforevercharlie]

i didn't like it either. but i had no choice. i was told too that the main forum isn't my journal either.

Who told you that?